Author Topic: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)  (Read 16678 times)

Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« on: 11 April, 2014, 07:32:12 am »
Can't believe I'm actually posting here but I've only gone and bought a tandem. Does that count as my +1.
Seriously though, my wife broke her leg 9 weeks ago, she's healing well, but she's not the fastest of riders and I don't hold that against her at all. When she started cycling I made a rule that when we cycle together, well, we cycle together, we'd like to do longer journeys together without her being knackered at the end, so, on a whim, I've gone and bought a second hand tandem. Is there anything special I should know or learn. The said bike is a 5-6 year old Trek T1000 fitted with 23mm tyres, it is extremely fast but I intend to change those for something more forgiving e.g. Marathon 28's or similar and fit mudguards as well. At last I'll be able to take her on audax rides without her fretting about finishing within time.  She won't be back on the bike for a few weeks yet but she is already looking forward to it, think I've earned myself mega brownie points for this. Just wish I could earn them on every bike I've bought. Any advice please
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #1 on: 11 April, 2014, 08:32:39 am »
I don't think I have any particular advice, being a tandem newbie myself, but have fun!

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #2 on: 11 April, 2014, 08:46:24 am »
The stokers always right.


Very infrequently we had mega arguements on the tandem. Real hot-headed ones.  It was well worth ignoring these as even an average tandem ride is great.

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #3 on: 11 April, 2014, 08:51:49 am »
Thanks for that but I've already been told/warned that the stoker is always right, and she wants a Garmin on the back as well, so she can keep an eye on the speed. :-(
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

Chris S

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #4 on: 11 April, 2014, 08:57:48 am »
Some rules we've developed in our short tandem career:

1. The stoker is (as you say) always right.
2. No anal events of any kind from the pilot. No exceptions. Ever.
3. Four sets of brakes is probably not enough (we'll find out for sure on tomorrow's Elenydd!).
4. Always carry a chain tool. You have two chains, one is very long, and they're taking the strain from four legs; you will break them (chains, not legs).
5. Everyone loves a tandem. Smile and wave at small children shut in cars; enjoy the late night banter from the local pavement weavers ("MENTAAAAALLLLL!!").
6. HAVE FUN!

ETA: Oh Oh Oh... I forgot. 7. If she gets off the tandem in a huff, don't - whatever you do - ride away on your own.  :facepalm:

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #5 on: 11 April, 2014, 09:05:17 am »
Actually - a couple of suggestions.  See if you can have a go at stoking for an experienced pilot before you have a go at piloting.  It means you have a useful insight into what life is like on the back seat.  And ride with some other tandems if you get a chance - see how other people do it. 

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #6 on: 11 April, 2014, 09:09:21 am »
It is always sensible to remember that although the pilot is in 'control', the stoker provides an invaluable service.

Simple rules make life easier.   For instance, the pilot always has feet down first, up last, the pilot warns the stoker when unavoidable bumps are about to be encountered, the pilot communicates for launch, stop and for changes to pedaling.   

For instance, we start by the pilot straddling and holding the machine whilst the stoker mounts and sits with feet on/in pedals.   The pedals are positioned for best launch for the pilot and to launch there are a series of instructions that we use:

Pilot:      Ready to roll?   Telling stoker that we are about to move off.
Stoker:   Ready.   Only when soter is ready.   If they are not ready they should say so.
Pilot:      Rolling.  Pilot launches.

It is important for the stoker to respond to the pilot's pedalling and not drag or pedal through.   It's much easier than it sounds.

For your first few launches you might have comedy wobbles.   This is caused by the pilot over-compensating and / or either stoker or pilot giving it too much ooomph.

The pilot should talk to tall the time telling them when they need to indicate to turn left or right, to stop pedaling, to ease off, to beware of bumps, and when slowing or stopping.   

When bringing the machine to a halt, the pilot should have both feet on the ground and a firm grip on the machine before the stoker attempts to leave the bike.   

Fit bars / pedals / saddles that you both prefer wherever possible.   The experience should be a good one.

Golden rules:   (IMHO)

Pilot is first on, last off.

Stoker keeps feet off the ground at all times when on the machine unless specifically requested otherwise by the pilot.

Stoker resists squirming about when on the move.   

Stoker responds to pilot's pedal rhythm, cadence etc. where possible. 

Stoker says if they need the gear changing.

A tandem generally has a larger turning circle than a solo and generally will take longer to haul to a stop.   

Sounds really boring, no?   It's not.  You'll get used to riding a tandem and it will become second nature just like riding a solo or a bent.   You will have heaps of awesome fun and be the object of desire and wonderment of young children and old adults alike.   So, don't forget the big grins.   8)   :thumbsup:

Of course, the stoker, if of the intimately friendly variety, can administer fondling of the pilot at their own discretion.   This piece of information comes with a cyclists health warning as such actions can cause distraction to the pilot.   ;)   :D

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #7 on: 11 April, 2014, 09:23:56 am »
Me and the Cubs have developed two slightly different routines for indicating on the tandem.  With the big one I say 'give me a left/right' and he repeats back to me the left/right so I know he's heard it and then I leave him to it, because he's clued up enough to indicate clearly and know when and all that.  The verbal 'ack' back to me of which side was something he started doing spontaneously without me suggesting it the first time we went out together and I found it really helpful so have asked him to keep it up - it helps me to know that he's heard me right!

With the littly we added a 'pat me on the bum with the relevant hand' to the routine... he's only 6, and occasionally needs a reminder that it's the 'other right'.  I also explicitly tell him to make sure he's got his bum properly on the saddle before he indicates (he's a big fan of honking!) and to put his hands on the bars for the corner and stuff.  And there's some junctions when I ask him to let me indicate because I want him to keep both hands on the bars back there.

So I guess one lesson to learn is that it can be different with different combinations of pilot and stoker - find what works for you!

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #8 on: 11 April, 2014, 09:31:37 am »
Thanks for all the tips so far. Sounds like it's going to be fun. I think the first few spins had better be  flattish and straight. Millenium path from  Llanelli to Pembrey. Coffee stop at the start and end, and a couple en route as well.
 Got the added bonus, if I take the front wheel off it fits in my van. How do you transport if you have no van?
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #9 on: 11 April, 2014, 09:42:33 am »
Do whatever it takes to ensure that your wife IS COMFORTABLE.
This may need some professional advice from a tandem builder or respected retailer wrt to body fit/position on the bike:or you may be content to experiment yourselves given your mutual/experience on solos.
It may require a change of stoker bars or saddle or stem or cranks.

Always advise the stoker of impending gear changes,speed humps,braking or anything that may affect pedalling rhythm.
Avoid potholes,sunken drain covers & the like.You may wish to consider a suspension seat post for the stoker.

Do you have panniers & a rack or a saddle bag?Some type of luggage carrying capacity is more than usefull .
Bottle cages are adviseable.

I use a rear view mirror mounted on the offside drops.Obviates the need for any bum shuffling (which can compromise stability) to see what's behind.

Decide on your starting/stopping technique.Both with one foot grounded(same foot for both pilot & stoker) or stoker remains on the pedals supported by pilot.Whatever you decide stick with it to avoid confusion & ground contact at 33ft/per second/per second.

Your proposed first ride sounds ideal.Flat & straight ftw.
I hope you both have maximum spm (smiles per miles)

I used to have one of these
http://www.pendle-bike.co.uk/shopping/standard-tandem-rack.php

Currently contemplating using this
http://www.thule.com/en/gb/products/carriers-and-racks/bike-carriers/towbar-mounted-bike-carriers/thule-xpress-970-_-970000
with the tandem wheels removed :-\

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #10 on: 11 April, 2014, 10:02:02 am »
Oh - the other thing that I found helpful (as did That Deano on the occasion that he piloted my Helios and I stoked for him!) was to take the bike out for a bit of a spin stokerless to get a feel for the length of the bike, how grabby the brakes were, how big the turning circle was etc.  It won't handle the same as with someone on the back, unless that someone is as dinky as the SmallestCub (who is tiny but packs a respectable power to weight ratio - it's like a chatty electric assist apart from when he stands up!) but it does give you some idea and help you feel a bit more confident the first time you try with someone back there!

Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #11 on: 11 April, 2014, 10:14:16 am »
I've come to the conclusion that it might be beneficial to get a victim/volunteer from the club to stoke for me while my wife is still laid up, at least then, one of us will have had some experience. All I can say is "Bring on the Summer" it's gonna be a laugh
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

Chris S

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #12 on: 11 April, 2014, 10:42:43 am »
I have received a thigh-fondle and a word has been whispered in my ear from my captive Stoker. She says:

If the stoker is navigating, let them navigate. The pilot deals with the road conditions, the stoker deals with the plan. The stoker does the over shoulder rear view and the pilot has to trust them to do that. (This doesn't apply if your stoker is visually impaired or under 12)

Fidgeting is fine if the pilot is forewarned. Changes in cadence/ gear/ bumps/ whatever don't need announcing after the first 1000 miles or so, nor does the instruction to stand/ sit/ indicate. If the stoker is taken by surprise they haven't been paying attention.

As far as speed is concerned, if you have a stoker brake, resist the temptation to use it unless instructed. Trust the pilot, whatever speed they're doing, they're the one who can see the road. After all, you don't yank the handbrake when your pilot is driving a car, do you?

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #13 on: 11 April, 2014, 11:03:00 am »
That's a good idea. The more practice, the better.

Communication is the thing - calling bumps and if you are stopping and so on. It is hard to shift your weight when stoking and your bottom can get a bit numb, so occasionally I let clarion know that I need to wriggle and we stop pedaling so I can fidget. It can be awkward if I forget to mention what I am doing! I once saw a potential cafe and stopped pedaling and tried to turn towards it and that wasn't popular :-[.

The stoker should always tell the pilot if they are dismounting, taking time to mount or have lost grip on the pedals. (I usually pilot child stokers who occasionally dismount when you aren't expecting it and frequently lose grip on the pedals.) The pilot should always check that the stoker is ready before starting or dismounting.

The stoker does the indicating and map reading. Lots of cafe stops to start with, because bums get numb. I have a mirror on the stoker bars for rear view.

Toe clips or clipless pedals are helpful for stoking because you aren't in control of the pedals.

The pilot's jersey pockets are for the stoker's phone, sunglasses, handkerchief and possibly purse. His back is a useful place to pin the map.

It's loads of fun, enjoy it! :D
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #14 on: 11 April, 2014, 12:14:52 pm »
I agree with all what others said, but I'll add my 2 (or 3) pences:

1) Trust each other. That's for the pilot, who should be confident that the stoker won't panic, and for the stoker, who knows that the pilot won't make a dangerous move.

2) If you have to make a compromise between pilot's / stoker's comfort, make sure the stoker is comfortable first. The pilot can always deal with a suboptimal position.

3) Don't worry about what people will shout at you, like "she's not pedaling behind you". Even her best friends will tell her things like: "A tandem? Lucky you are! You can just sit back and relax!". These comments can become really irritating for a stoker.

The most important advice is have fun together!

Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #15 on: 11 April, 2014, 12:31:46 pm »
ETA: Oh Oh Oh... I forgot. 7. If she gets off the tandem in a huff, don't - whatever you do - ride away on your own.  :facepalm:

Really?



Well, you were not actually riding, but walking. For the sake of honesty, I should add that we too walked along our tandem on this particular road.

The pilot's jersey pockets are for the stoker's phone, sunglasses, handkerchief and possibly purse. His back is a useful place to pin the map.

and you forgot cake! One of the good points on a tandem is that the pilot can have food picked up from his pockets and unwrapped while keeping his two hands on the bar.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #16 on: 11 April, 2014, 12:44:35 pm »
And the stoker (as the SmallestCub has discovered) can do jazz hands at schoolmates, wave thanks to considerate drivers, and do bird impersonations and pretend to fly.

But only on quiet roads.  We have A Rule about that!

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #17 on: 11 April, 2014, 12:56:49 pm »
Some great advice above. Our tandem is used far too infrequently alas. My stoker is my wife who is not a keen cyclist.

My only advice is that communication is key, particularly when it comes to starting and stopping.

Have fun!

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #18 on: 11 April, 2014, 01:07:56 pm »
And the stoker (as the SmallestCub has discovered) can do jazz hands at schoolmates, wave thanks to considerate drivers, and do bird impersonations and pretend to fly.

But only on quiet roads.  We have A Rule about that!

my bold
 ;D :thumbsup:
Emily used to give her mates the Royal Wave when we did the school run on the tandem.
http://www.robertdandersonphotography.com/galleries/royalty/

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #19 on: 11 April, 2014, 01:41:07 pm »
Nobody seems to have mentioned that vital tandem team skill:  Bickering.   ;D

Phil W

Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #20 on: 11 April, 2014, 07:58:11 pm »
I ride with a blind stoker. Warning them what is coming up, including hills, potholes , turns helps tremendously. You will feel resistance through the pedals if they prefer a lower cadence than you. You'll need to compromise on cadence. If you are the fitter one, then ease the cadence / gear for your stokers benefit. Do not stop halfway up a hill. Short and sharp  and a bit of welly can get you up it, longer go for a spinning strategy.  Looking over your shoulder when pilot can take the tandem with you, let the stoker look behind. Do not change gear halfway up a steep hill, all the power can strain the gear change somewhat. Don't get out the saddle until you've practised and count it down for your stokers benefit. A tandem in full flight is like a supertanker and 50mph on a gentle downhill is not that hard. Remember you are a supertanker and match speed to conditions. If you get the chance for a bit if easy off road rake the tandem in it, great fun.  Let your stoker be pilot now and again to appreciate being on the back. I do this with my blind stoker but only on disused railways, and usually no more than 1/2 mile. Sharpens up my instruction calling and adjustment calls for his steering :-)

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #21 on: 11 April, 2014, 10:10:58 pm »
Great comments here!

My own thoughts, to add to the mix: for us one of the best bits was learning something new together. Not just the tandeming, but the whole world of touring, independence, and long distance cycling. Neither of us did more than short commute prior to having the tandem so the entire experience was a journey of discovery for us that really made it so much fun.

Your idea to get a team-mate do some practice rides as stoker in the short term is immensely sensible, but on the other hand if you want it to be a joint learning experience then you could also wait and learn it all together. Depends more if you see it as offering your wife an "expert guided introduction" to your own hobby, or something completely new to you both that you're going to undertake together. You'll be best placed to know which approach would work best for you.


Anyway, whatever, just remember to enjoy it as you go, and you'll have a blast :)

bhoot

  • MemSec (ex-Mrs RRtY)
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #22 on: 13 April, 2014, 10:51:34 pm »
Well, you were not actually riding, but walking. For the sake of honesty, I should add that we too walked along our tandem on this particular road.
Us too!

I think most of the really important points about tandems have already been made but one more "hint and tip" from this stoker - please don't pull in too quickly after overtaking other bikes, don't forget there is still another 6 foot of bike behind you!

One thing you are sure to notice though is that so many more people talk to you when you have a tandem. Some really special times have been when quite elderly couples have come up to us to reminisce about having a tandem themselves when younger.



Julian

  • samoture
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #23 on: 14 April, 2014, 12:19:55 pm »
Don't take both hands off the handlebars even if you do think the stoker's reaction is funny.

Honking takes a lot of practice.  Little gears are usually better. 

When filtering, remember that you have a lot of bike behind you. 

I don't recognise all this "stoker is always right" stuff above, I thought it was the other way round ;D

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Tandem Convert (Hopefully)
« Reply #24 on: 14 April, 2014, 12:50:17 pm »
Useful stoker skill:  Quietly and without comment, ease off the power as the captain drags the cadence away from your comfort point.  They'll soon learn to pedal at the right speed.   :D

(This sort of mismatch can be solved more permanently and efficiently by differential crank lengths.)