Author Topic: Fare dodging: have you ever done it and is it ever acceptable? (Read 975 times)

JonBuoy · « **Reply #25 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:04:20 pm »

The current price of a ticket on the 1900 from Sheffield to Loughborough on Wednesday is £6.70. The first stop is at Chesterfield. The current price of a ticket on the 1912 from Chesterfield to Loughborough is £10.80. Should I feel bad about buying a ticket from Sheffield but saving them the trouble of having to transport me from Sheffield to Chesterfield?

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #26 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:20:45 pm »

Railways are full of anomalies like that. Once I was heading back home from Ashchurch (ie Tewkesbury) and decided rather than go into the centre of Bristol I'd get off a stop early at Filton Abbey Wood then ride from there, and if I saved myself a quid or two in the process, all the better. Turned out to cost more! And the reason is that the fare from Bristol Temple Meads is set by GWR, while the fare from Filton Abbey Wood is set by Cross Country, who are more price-gougey. What makes it really weird is that there are no Cross Country trains stopping at Filton.

JonBuoy · « **Reply #27 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:23:35 pm »

My example is EMR with no changes

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #28 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:26:32 pm »

I'm sure there is a reason somewhere, recorded in a dusty filing cabinet by a Victorian clerk and kept in a dark cellar ever since.

ScottishGeek · « **Reply #29 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:44:13 pm »

When my wife and I were in San Francisco around 10 years ago we hopped on to one of the cable cars, a must for any visitor.

It was very busy and, as it set off, were asked to change our position a little by the driver. We happily obliged and thought nothing of it. Turned out the ticket officer had just ‘cleared’ the area we moved into. We realised that he wasn’t coming back as we neared our stop, so tried to attract his attention in order to pay. He just waved us away and carried on as he had been doing.

barakta · « **Reply #30 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:44:28 pm »

I didn't go out of my way to talk to bus drivers as a kid if my clipper-card didn't work in the machine and there was a scrum boarding, or our weekly pass thermally faded sooner than it should. Drivers were rude and surly a lot of the time so it wasn't worth the hassle of talking to them unless you had to.

I don't think I've ever intentionally fare dodged onna train, but if I can't legit buy a ticket and then there's no gate at my destination I won't go out of my way. Especially not after a ticket let me into the system but then trapped me on the Underground at Euston at the last but one part of my return journey and staff wouldn't let me out or open a kiosk so I could pay. There was confusion about whether my ticket included transfer on the underground (you couldn't transfer otherwise so

?!). After 20 mins of banging on the kiosk window (staff were there but ignoring me), getting sore legs and risking missing my train, I told the gate staff "Either make those kiosk people let me pay Right Now, let me out, or I'm climbing this gate and you can call the police cos this is kidnap over a confusing shitty ticket system and I'm out of fucks". They let me out cos they could see I'd tried. I was NOT happy at all.

UK train ticketing is overly complicated, lots of expensive pitfalls and quite frankly sometimes horrid attitude in announcements and by staff towards passengers who are now confused by said shitty systems. I think tickets should be simplified and a lot cheaper and there should be a lot more capacity. People's cars don't decide to make their journey cost 10-20x more at certain times of day (usually) and car drivers aren't stuck on cold windy dieselly platforms for hours waiting for a seat, if they're lucky.

UK trains stink and I worry the Tories are going to try and make them worse.

Feanor · « **Reply #31 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:57:34 pm »

Quote from: ScottishGeek on Yesterday at 08:44:13 pm

When my wife and I were in San Francisco around 10 years ago we hopped on to one of the cable cars, a must for any visitor.

It was very busy and, as it set off, were asked to change our position a little by the driver. We happily obliged and thought nothing of it. Turned out the ticket officer had just ‘cleared’ the area we moved into. We realised that he wasn’t coming back as we neared our stop, so tried to attract his attention in order to pay. He just waved us away and carried on as he had been doing.

These days, you buy your ticket using an app.
It was called MuniMobile when I was there a few months back.

Which was a bit annoying, since the other public transport (BART : Bay Area Rapid Transit, their underground/overground metro system, and several ferries) used the Clipper system, where you could add a clipper card ( like an Oyster card ) to your phone wallet.

So yet more crap on the phone...

Polar Bear · « **Reply #32 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:00:29 pm »

Quote from: barakta on Yesterday at 08:44:28 pm

I didn't go out of my way to talk to bus drivers as a kid if my clipper-card didn't work in the machine and there was a scrum boarding, or our weekly pass thermally faded sooner than it should. Drivers were rude and surly a lot of the time so it wasn't worth the hassle of talking to them unless you had to.

I don't think I've ever intentionally fare dodged onna train, but if I can't legit buy a ticket and then there's no gate at my destination I won't go out of my way. Especially not after a ticket let me into the system but then trapped me on the Underground at Euston at the last but one part of my return journey and staff wouldn't let me out or open a kiosk so I could pay. There was confusion about whether my ticket included transfer on the underground (you couldn't transfer otherwise so ?!). After 20 mins of banging on the kiosk window (staff were there but ignoring me), getting sore legs and risking missing my train, I told the gate staff "Either make those kiosk people let me pay Right Now, let me out, or I'm climbing this gate and you can call the police cos this is kidnap over a confusing shitty ticket system and I'm out of fucks". They let me out cos they could see I'd tried. I was NOT happy at all.

UK train ticketing is overly complicated, lots of expensive pitfalls and quite frankly sometimes horrid attitude in announcements and by staff towards passengers who are now confused by said shitty systems. I think tickets should be simplified and a lot cheaper and there should be a lot more capacity. People's cars don't decide to make their journey cost 10-20x more at certain times of day (usually) and car drivers aren't stuck on cold windy dieselly platforms for hours waiting for a seat, if they're lucky.

UK trains stink and I worry the Tories are going to try and make them worse.

You make a strong point about the cost. I worked out that the train for us to visit Windermere in the Lake District will cost £140 for the two of us even with my disabled persons Railcard giving a third off for myself and my "helper". It would cost about a tenner in electricity assuming a full charge when leaving home and plugging in on a public charger in Windermere to get the car back to 80% for the return leg.

The horrible thing of course is that mllePB would have to driven those 360 miles round trip.

cygnet · « **Reply #33 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:07:58 pm »

TL;DR
Everyone replying is agreed that fare dodging is bad, but sometimes the transport service, or ticket validation system is not 100%

cygnet · « **Reply #34 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:19:05 pm »

I've never boarded public transport with the intent of not paying the fare.

I have been fined twice.

Both times it has been more cost effective to pay the fine than contest it.

cygnet · « **Reply #35 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:30:29 pm »

Quote from: Feanor on Yesterday at 07:15:25 pm

Can these guys really have such good facial memory that they can glance at all the look-away-ers on a train that size,and think 'Oh, yea. I remember them.

I suspect they do it more on spacial memory (block colour/form and location)
Next time try moving a carriage and taking off your coat; see if they still ignore your ignoring.

Basil · « **Reply #36 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:39:03 pm »

When I applied for a Welsh bus pass I was supposed to surrender my English one.
I didn't, and would use it on visits to my mum in Reading and my son in Birmingham.
Sorry. Not Sorry.
It has date expired now.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #37 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:13:49 pm »

When I think of the occasional shocking treatment I have had at the hands of rail companies/employees, I think fare dodging can be laudable.

Example: whilst travelling from Glasgow to Edinburgh prior to catching the 5.30 to London, I lost our tickets, for a friend, Jan and me. They cost me £42 and were seat/train specific. I had photographed them. The woman at Waverley station insisted I bought new tickets at £302. Even if someone had found and tried to use the originals, they would have been caught red-handed because we were sitting in the reserved seats.

In the end, karma prevailed: someone had been nicking copper in the Newark area and our train, which should have arrived at about 10pm, arrived after 3am. I claimed back both sets of tickets under the “delay repay” scheme, and the TOC tried to fob me off with £344 in vouchers. I took them to a small claims court and won, so eventually received a cheque for £344. It wasn’t long after this that the TOCs’ terms and conditions were changed and passengers were entitled to claim cash back for delay/repay instead of vouchers. I like to think that I contributed towards that rule change.

Edit: link to my account of the above exchange written at the time. https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=40489.msg920623#msg920623

perpetual dan · « **Reply #38 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:24:28 pm »

I used the bus between Victoria and Marylebone quite a few times before I got checked and told that my cross London ticket wasn't valid on the bus. Still seems odd to me that one bit of London Transport is allowed and another (in this case, simpler) bit isn't. But it wasn't knowing or deliberate.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

Wowbagger · « **Reply #39 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:26:49 pm »

Example two: not long ago I took my bike on the train from Prittlewell to Wickford. Prittlewell now has a ticket machine but it is supposed to be manned from 6am to 1pm. This would have been about 9am and the ticket seller was absent. The ticket office was locked.

The machine was out of order. Another passenger, whom I didn’t know, was panicking about the thought of boarding a train without a ticket, even though there was no means to buy one. Something about her attitude made me, on the spur of the moment, take a photo of the offending machine.

When we got to Wickford, there about 5 ticket inspectors checking the tickets of everyone who got off the train. Those of us who had boarded at Prittlewell had none of course. The passenger in front of me was being treated like a criminal for not having a ticket - the full works. At that point I stepped in with my photo of the out of order machine.

I could see how miffed these inspectors were that I had “shot their fox” as it were, and one of them accompanied us to the Wickford ticket office to ensure that we bought tickets.

If one of those 5 inspectors had boarded a train to Prittlewell (17 minute journey) they could have arranged to have the ticket office opened and sold tickets, instead of harassing innocent passengers.

barakta · « **Reply #40 on:** **Today** at 12:58:33 am »

I always take pictures of broken machines if I can't get tix another way, it's all evidence and if I was harassed by inspectors being unreasonable, I'd refuse to pay for new tickets and show the police my picture and fight the claim on sheer belligerence purposes.

The only time I remember a broken machine + unstaffed station I was anxious but when I explained to inspector he was fine and lovely and said he didn't need to see my pic cos the machine was ALWAYS breaking and he was happy to sell me the same ticket on board without being an arse.

You'd think if there's a broken machine they'd be able to say "OK everyone from broke-machine location come here" and see a group and not assume ALL of them were ticket dodging. They could even go and verify and fix the machine perhaps. Radical thought.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #41 on:** **Today** at 08:03:01 am »

Poppleton to York

It is a 5 min journey.

They closed the ticket office at poppleton and replaced it with a machine. Said machine would break down regularly,usually because someone shoved chewing gum in the slot.

Ticket inspectors knew this, and really could not be bothered to try to get people to pay in the 5min it took to get to York. They usually shut themselves in their cabin.

Asterix, the former Gaul. · « **Reply #42 on:** **Today** at 08:16:45 am »

Quote from: barakta on Today at 12:58:33 am

I always take pictures of broken machines if I can't get tix another way, it's all evidence and if I was harassed by inspectors being unreasonable, I'd refuse to pay for new tickets and show the police my picture and fight the claim on sheer belligerence purposes.

The only time I remember a broken machine + unstaffed station I was anxious but when I explained to inspector he was fine and lovely and said he didn't need to see my pic cos the machine was ALWAYS breaking and he was happy to sell me the same ticket on board without being an arse.

You'd think if there's a broken machine they'd be able to say "OK everyone from broke-machine location come here" and see a group and not assume ALL of them were ticket dodging. They could even go and verify and fix the machine perhaps. Radical thought.

What would Paula Vennells have done?

orienteer · « **Reply #43 on:** **Today** at 10:51:01 am »

Almost every time I use the underground from Uxbridge I see fare dodgers just forcing their way through the wider gates. I think the usual station staff are instructed not to try and apprehend them, but occasionally there are fare enforcement staff and/or British Transport police there.

Pedal Castro · « **Reply #44 on:** **Today** at 11:05:45 am »

I can remember as a child (age 11) using a bus to get to school until I was given a bike for my birthday. Occasionally I would pick up a discarded ticket from the floor and fiddle with it, avoiding the gaze of the conductor when he came up to the top deck he (or she) never asked me to buy a ticket. Not sure how often I did this, maybe 3-4 times... I was a bit naughty then.