Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Food & Drink => Topic started by: fuaran on 22 March, 2020, 06:28:23 pm

Title: Breadmakers
Post by: fuaran on 22 March, 2020, 06:28:23 pm
Thinking a breadmaker would be useful. Any recommendations?

I'm not too bothered about fancy sorts of bread. A fairly standard white or wholemeal loaf would do most of the time.
I would like a decent sized loaf, some of them look quite small.
Just want something simple and reliable.

Seems Panasonic get good reviews. What's the difference between the various models, £100 vs £200?
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hatler on 22 March, 2020, 07:11:13 pm
We have a Kenwood BM450 (https://www.kenwoodworld.com/en-int/products/cooking-baking/breadmakers/bread-maker-bm450-0wbm450002).

Seed dispenser, 1Kg loaf size that looks like a loaf you'd get from a bakers, 15hr delay. Produces consistent results, but after 2 or 3 years of about 3 or 4 loaves a week you either need to get yourself a new breadpan or work out how to fettle a new seal.

Overall a neat piece of kit.

If you get one I can give you details on how to fettle a new seal.

And I can let you have my fave granary loaf recipe.


Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hbunnet on 22 March, 2020, 07:54:57 pm
We have  ~25year old Panasonic still going but lightly used. Our son has the same model ~10 yrs old, heavily used. Model SD-253
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: pcolbeck on 22 March, 2020, 08:12:51 pm
Panasonic. Always gets the best reviews. I have one (a Christmas present to replace an ancient and second hand supermarket own brand one) and am not very adventurous with it but it just works. Model number is SD-ZB2502.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: neilrj on 22 March, 2020, 10:57:33 pm
Panasonic SD 256 here, well I think it is as the labeling is all but gone, was recommended somewhere - I suspect here. Great machine for baking loaves (who knew!) or more often just kneading prior to hand forming etc.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 22 March, 2020, 11:28:51 pm
I've had 2 Panasonics. The first one did fail*, but only after a lot of use. The second one is amazing - perfect results every time (model SD-ZB2512). I got it in a sale at JL.

* I think it stopped baking, but would still mix and knead. Probably repairable but it was knackered.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: andrewc on 22 March, 2020, 11:33:53 pm
I took a look at the John Lewis site earlier.  All breadmakers sold out,  same with a lot of freezers. 
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: andyoxon on 22 March, 2020, 11:36:04 pm
Another Panasonic SD-253 here.  10+yrs old.  ~£100 IIRC
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 22 March, 2020, 11:52:47 pm
I took a look at the John Lewis site earlier.  All breadmakers sold out

Ah, that explains why Tesco had no bread flour the other day  :(.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Kim on 23 March, 2020, 12:18:08 am
Panasonic Croustina SD-ZP2000KXC here.  Its novel feature appears to be extremely tight temperature control, allowing it to do really crusty crusts (and usefully compensating for ambient temperature, which was a real problem with our previous no-name bread machine in our draughty kitchen).  Seriously, if you use the crust program, the resulting loaf would pass for something from a tragic hipster artisan bakery unless you looked at the underside.

This is a trade-off against more common wanky bread machine features like a zillion different programs, automagically polluting your perfectly good bread with seedy things, or a window so it's not just Schrodinger's bread until it finishes baking.

Only does up to 500g loaves though.  (I mostly do 300g[1], because there's only so much bread two of us can eat before it goes stale.)


Panasonic seems like a good bet generally.  You stand a chance of being able to obtain a replacement pan if the bearing goes, for example.


[1] Programs and recipes only go down to 400g, but 300 seems to work okay (resulting in a slightly lumpy-looking loaf) if you scale the quantites down proportionally.  I suspect any smaller would have trouble mixing properly.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: fuaran on 23 March, 2020, 01:10:58 am
Thanks. I'll look for a Panasonic.
Seem to be sold out at Currys and Argos as well, hopefully they can find some more.

My local post office has started selling flour and yeast, so got enough of that for now.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: ian on 23 March, 2020, 09:44:45 am
We have a mini-one, which is quite simple and makes perfect bread in a smaller loaf format, which is ideal for two people who munch through it while it's still fresh. Probably about 20 years old. The timer appears to be clockwork (don't start it on the wrong programme, once it commits to three hours, you won't change its mind).
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: andrewc on 23 March, 2020, 10:09:48 am
I've got some flour & some yeast & a big mixing bowl.    I don't think I've made bread for over 20 years though ! 
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Ham on 23 March, 2020, 02:27:20 pm
Maybe because I've never tried it, but a breadmaker is one of those curious bulky-object-kitchen-things that does only one thing, and not particularly well. There was a time when everyone had to have a Teasmade (TeasMaid? TeaseMaid?), which seems to have a similar rationale.

If you want a machine to knead, a food processor does that extraordinarily efficiently and quickly and can be used for other things*. Of course, kneading by hand is pretty much fun.

*When making bread by processor, it takes me 5 minutes start to end, then just rising and baking in the oven needed.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: caerau on 23 March, 2020, 02:30:12 pm
Hate to say it, but all you actually need in terms of equipment, is a bowl a breadboard and a pair of hands to knead it. 


An oven too I guess ;)






Perfectly good bread is a piece of cake to make.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: orienteer on 23 March, 2020, 02:44:19 pm
The main advantage of a breadmaker is that it takes only 5 minutes to assemble the ingredients, then without any further attention it delivers a finished loaf 4/5 hours later. Can even cook overnight thanks to the timer.

Making bread by hand requires sporadic interventions over a long period; OK if you're around and free at the critical times.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 23 March, 2020, 02:52:33 pm
Hate to say it, but all you actually need in terms of equipment, is a bowl a breadboard and a pair of hands to knead it. 


An oven too I guess ;)

Flour is quite useful too. And it's pretty hard to come by at the moment.  >:(
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: vorsprung on 23 March, 2020, 03:09:24 pm
I have a Panasonic
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: vorsprung on 23 March, 2020, 03:10:24 pm
Hate to say it, but all you actually need in terms of equipment, is a bowl a breadboard and a pair of hands to knead it. 


An oven too I guess ;)

Flour is quite useful too. And it's pretty hard to come by at the moment.  >:(

Hopefully, the crazy people have bought some flour, made some lumps of lead and won't buy it again
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 23 March, 2020, 03:11:04 pm
The main advantage of a breadmaker is that it takes only 5 minutes to assemble the ingredients, then without any further attention it delivers a finished loaf 4/5 hours later. Can even cook overnight thanks to the timer.

Making bread by hand requires sporadic interventions over a long period; OK if you're around and free at the critical times.

^ this.

I make bread by hand sometimes (OK I cheat and mix/knead the dough in a food mixer) when I want something differently shaped or a dark crust etc. It's therapeutic.

But my breadmaker did all the hard work for me overnight and I had fresh bread this morning  :smug:.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: T42 on 23 March, 2020, 03:21:19 pm
Our breadmaker has just done a batch of oatcakes & I'm busy getting outside some.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: ian on 23 March, 2020, 03:40:24 pm
I can make bread by hand, but it takes about 2 minutes to assemble everything in the breadmaker and forget about it until the house is full of the smell of baking bread. Plus it's probably more efficient than cranking up the oven for a small loaf.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 23 March, 2020, 04:23:47 pm
Hopefully, the crazy people have bought some flour, made some lumps of lead and won't buy it again

I'm assuming that once people realise there's no need to panic buy and they can actually get their daily Hovis after all, there will be vast amounts of flour sitting at the back of pantries across the country until it goes bad. We'll get over the coronavirus pandemic to find ourselves in a mass weevil infestation instead.

Tbh, I was never that impressed with the bread that came out of our machine anyway. It is now sitting gathering dust in a cupboard somewhere. Maybe I should put it on ebay before the demand dies down, and just retire on the profit...
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 23 March, 2020, 04:35:27 pm
Maybe because I've never tried it, but a breadmaker is one of those curious bulky-object-kitchen-things that does only one thing, and not particularly well. There was a time when everyone had to have a Teasmade (TeasMaid? TeaseMaid?), which seems to have a similar rationale.

If you want a machine to knead, a food processor does that extraordinarily efficiently and quickly and can be used for other things*. Of course, kneading by hand is pretty much fun.

*When making bread by processor, it takes me 5 minutes start to end, then just rising and baking in the oven needed.
True but if I didn't have a breadmaker I would never make bread. And I wouldn't have a breadmaker if I hadn't found this one by chance for £12 in a chazzer five or six years ago. It is bulky, as well as noisy, but it does make really nice bread (only too small... ). I can't see myself doing the kneading and proving and so on. Lazy? Demanding? Maybe. But I like the way I can throw the ingredients in and leave it overnight, for instance.

What I don't think it does is save money. I reckon I get less than three loaves from a bag of flour so by the time you add the electricity (and the oil, which we seem to use loads of) the savings are marginal compared to £1.85 for a pretty decent loaf from the decent bakery down the road. But they're not open Sundays or at midnight (and at the moment they're probably selling out by 9a.m., I haven't checked).
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: caerau on 23 March, 2020, 04:39:08 pm

Hate to say it, but all you actually need in terms of equipment, is a bowl a breadboard and a pair of hands to knead it. 


An oven too I guess ;)

Flour is quite useful too. And it's pretty hard to come by at the moment.  >:(



My bold :P
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 23 March, 2020, 04:42:19 pm
There was a time when everyone had to have a Teasmade (TeasMaid? TeaseMaid?), which seems to have a similar rationale.

We have a vintage Goblin D25 Teasmade that we bought from a local chap who specialises in restoring them. It's really good! The later models and imitations are cheap tat and don't work, but ours is fantastic. Only problem is the kettle developed a leak so it's out of service right now.

Quote
If you want a machine to knead, a food processor does that extraordinarily efficiently and quickly and can be used for other things*.

I find the KitchenAid with dough hook attachment especially useful for very wet doughs.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 23 March, 2020, 04:53:50 pm
My two penny's worth

I found if I set it up too early and had a long delay on start it sometimes over proved/escaped from the maker.

Secondly remember bread maker bread and hand made goes off so much quicker then plastic breas

I'd be making by hand if I could get any flour
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: ian on 23 March, 2020, 04:59:55 pm
I bought all the organic hipster artisan flour, so I reckon every loaf I make costs about £20.

I used to like the spelt bread but the stuff makes me leak more gas than a faulty steam locomotive. Not the stuff to ingest when you're stuck at home.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hatler on 23 March, 2020, 05:19:42 pm
I used to take this into work every Monday morning - for some it was the highlight of the week : -

In the pan at the start : -
300g white bread flour
100g wholemeal bread flour
100g granary bread flour
100g rye bread flour
1 heaped tsp salt
30g muscovado sugar
32g butter
380g water
20g poppy seeds
30g brown linseeds
30g golden linseeds
1tsp yeast

Dropped in at 20 minutes : -
50g sunflower seeds
25g pumpkin seeds

Place three cuts in the top with 65 minutes to go.

It doesn't last more than about an hour.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 23 March, 2020, 07:12:02 pm
Regarding a basic bread recipe, I don't follow what's in the Panasonic book. My everyday loaf is just the following:

400g flour (a combination of white, plus wholemeal, spelt, rye etc up to about 50%)
1 tsp salt
3/4 tsp quick yeast
300ml water

The recipes in the book include butter or milk etc which are totally unnecessary.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 23 March, 2020, 07:29:21 pm
The recipes in the book include butter or milk etc which are totally unnecessary.

Depends what you mean by 'necessary'. A basic loaf of bread requires nothing more than flour and water (even yeast is arguably not necessary). But you can't make a brioche without eggs and butter.

Enriching dough does affect the texture and flavour, so it's largely a matter of personal taste. Fat also improves the bread's keeping qualities.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: ian on 23 March, 2020, 07:32:58 pm
I always add oil, otherwise the bread goes stale quickly, along with a smidge of ascorbic acid. Milk makes for a slightly denser texture in my experience, I usually add a splash.

I never add any sugar though.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: caerau on 23 March, 2020, 07:34:32 pm
You can use baking soda too - instead of yeast* - to make that there Oirish soda bread :-)






*suddenly remembers he pilfered a kilo of bicarb from the lab  :D
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Ham on 23 March, 2020, 08:06:47 pm
There was a time when everyone had to have a Teasmade (TeasMaid? TeaseMaid?), which seems to have a similar rationale.

We have a vintage Goblin D25 Teasmade that we bought from a local chap who specialises in restoring them. It's really good! The later models and imitations are cheap tat and don't work, but ours is fantastic. Only problem is the kettle developed a leak so it's out of service right now.

Quote
If you want a machine to knead, a food processor does that extraordinarily efficiently and quickly and can be used for other things*.

I find the KitchenAid with dough hook attachment especially useful for very wet doughs.

Ah yes, the gobblin' teas maid.....

There's always one. My point (such as it is) is that the breadmaker is a big box for a single task, which for me isn't a worthwhile thang, but I can understand that others may see it differently.

As far as mechanised dough thrashing is concerned, trust me, nothing beats the Magimix (I have a Kenwood, not a KA, but it is the same difference). Brioche dough kneaded in 30 seconds. Not sure if any other processors have induction motors, but if they did it would probaly work the same.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: pcolbeck on 23 March, 2020, 08:09:45 pm
I always add oil, otherwise the bread goes stale quickly, along with a smidge of ascorbic acid. Milk makes for a slightly denser texture in my experience, I usually add a splash.

I never add any sugar though.

I have taken to adding a bit of honey instead of sugar.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 23 March, 2020, 08:39:34 pm
The recipes in the book include butter or milk etc which are totally unnecessary.

Depends what you mean by 'necessary'. A basic loaf of bread requires nothing more than flour and water (even yeast is arguably not necessary). But you can't make a brioche without eggs and butter.

Enriching dough does affect the texture and flavour, so it's largely a matter of personal taste. Fat also improves the bread's keeping qualities.

I was referring to basic bread. However, the "basic" recipes provided with the machine include ingredients other than flour, water, salt and yeast.

Beyond that everyone's free to add what they like. I make a mean onion bread, btw 8).
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 23 March, 2020, 08:47:05 pm
Like ian, I find oil is worthwhile for anti-staling and sugar is pointless. I've tried leaving out the salt and have concluded it's not essential but definitely worth adding too. Never thought about ascorbic acid; what's it for? Keeps it fresher?
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: ian on 23 March, 2020, 08:54:39 pm
Yes, I just break off a small piece of a vitamin tablet. It's an antioxidant (usually added as a 'flour improver' to store-bought bread) so soaks up the oxygen that would normally make the bread taste stale (that's a combination of drying out and slow oxidation).
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 23 March, 2020, 09:02:00 pm
Obvious, when it's explained.  ;) But I probably won't try it, cos the bread I make doesn't last that long.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 23 March, 2020, 09:07:41 pm
Yes, I just break off a small piece of a vitamin tablet. It's an antioxidant (usually added as a 'flour improver' to store-bought bread) so soaks up the oxygen that would normally make the bread taste stale (that's a combination of drying out and slow oxidation).

Dan Lepard says that's also for making wholemeal bread less heavy:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/jun/10/how-to-bake-wholemeal-bread

Quote
Dan Lepard, meanwhile, has another secret weapon up his floury sleeve: vitamin C, which apparently counteracts the glutathione which is responsible for wholemeal bread's heavier texture. Half a 500mg tablet, crushed to a powder and added along with the yeast, is apparently sufficient to stop the pesky chemical in its tracks. It proves well-nigh impossible to find vitamin tablets that don't taste like children's sweets in my local area, so I plump for lemon flavour, on the basis that I've got some smoked salmon in the fridge crying out to be made into an open sandwich, and hope for the best. Thankfully it's undetectable in the end result, which has a nice open structure, and a near fluffy texture. Added vitamins also get the thumbs up.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Ham on 23 March, 2020, 09:48:47 pm
I always add oil, otherwise the bread goes stale quickly, along with a smidge of ascorbic acid. Milk makes for a slightly denser texture in my experience, I usually add a splash.

I never add any sugar though.

I have taken to adding a bit of honey instead of sugar.

Malt. Always malt in bread.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: orienteer on 23 March, 2020, 10:08:26 pm
I use 2tbs of olive oil instead of butter, and also 2tbs of dried milk (Marvel) with 400gm of flour: either 200gm each of wholemeal and white, or 400gm of malted barley wholemeal.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 23 March, 2020, 10:29:58 pm
I always add oil, otherwise the bread goes stale quickly, along with a smidge of ascorbic acid. Milk makes for a slightly denser texture in my experience, I usually add a splash.

I never add any sugar though.

I have taken to adding a bit of honey instead of sugar.

Malt. Always malt in bread.
Soreen! :D
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Wowbagger on 24 March, 2020, 01:34:13 am
Panasonic SD-2500 for us.

It's our 3rd breadmaker. All have been Panasonics.

The first, bought in 2004, died after the drive for the paddle broke.

The second, we originally bought as a present for our daughter, but her kitchen was really too small to accommodate it so we bought it back off her when our first one died. That lasted OK until whoever started it going (not me!) left it too close to the edge of the worktop and it committed suicide by leaping over the edge.

We've had this one a year or two now. The bucket is the same shape as the previous two, but the non-stick seems to be vastly superior.

I follow the Panasonic recipes pretty unadventurously, although I never add sugar to loaves now. They just don't need it. Plenty of yeast food in flour.

The best reason yet for using a bread maker was a quote from the mother (or a friend of hers) of My Pal Mel.

Quote
I really like making bread. It always gets my finger nails so clean!
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: ian on 24 March, 2020, 09:44:36 am
Yes, I just break off a small piece of a vitamin tablet. It's an antioxidant (usually added as a 'flour improver' to store-bought bread) so soaks up the oxygen that would normally make the bread taste stale (that's a combination of drying out and slow oxidation).

Dan Lepard says that's also for making wholemeal bread less heavy:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/jun/10/how-to-bake-wholemeal-bread

Quote
Dan Lepard, meanwhile, has another secret weapon up his floury sleeve: vitamin C, which apparently counteracts the glutathione which is responsible for wholemeal bread's heavier texture. Half a 500mg tablet, crushed to a powder and added along with the yeast, is apparently sufficient to stop the pesky chemical in its tracks. It proves well-nigh impossible to find vitamin tablets that don't taste like children's sweets in my local area, so I plump for lemon flavour, on the basis that I've got some smoked salmon in the fridge crying out to be made into an open sandwich, and hope for the best. Thankfully it's undetectable in the end result, which has a nice open structure, and a near fluffy texture. Added vitamins also get the thumbs up.

That I didn't know, but it's general addition to all store-bought breads. I guess that's why they call a 'flour improver.'

Boots sell unfavoured vitamin C tablets (you can probably buy the powder from somewhere, but it's probably not food grade).
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 24 March, 2020, 10:08:57 am
I have a jar of vit c powder in the cupboard. Useful for things like stopping fruit/veg discolouring after chopping if you're not going to use it immediately. I don't recall ever adding it to bread though.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Mr Larrington on 24 March, 2020, 11:27:07 am
(Sings)
Oh before the gods that made the gods were born
Yes before the gods that made the gods were born
Yes before the gods that made the gods woke up and made the gods
That's when Ken1 first told me
That's when Ken first told me
"Your breadmaker will get used only once!"

1: Former Half Man Half Biscuit guitarist Ken Hancock
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hatler on 24 March, 2020, 12:13:59 pm
Well, he's wrong.   :-)
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Wowbagger on 26 March, 2020, 10:16:08 pm
Three or four times a week for the past 16 years or so...
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 27 March, 2020, 08:25:09 am
Three or four times a week for the past 16 years or so...

But how often do you make bread?
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: pcolbeck on 04 April, 2020, 06:28:42 pm
I just made a 50/50 white/wholemeal large loaf in my Panasonic. Usually my efforts look slightly wobbly but taste fine. The one cooling on the rack now looks like something from a Panasonic advert its so perfect!

I will never be able to repeat it as I guess the amount of salt and use a "dollop" of local honey instead of sugar but just for once a perfect loaf.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 04 April, 2020, 06:51:05 pm
This loaf is useless without photos!
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: pcolbeck on 04 April, 2020, 08:38:59 pm
OK. Slight amount of symmetry lost as it cooled.

(http://pictures.pcolbeck.fastmail.fm/Photos/bread1.jpg)

(http://pictures.pcolbeck.fastmail.fm/Photos/bread2.jpg)
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 04 April, 2020, 09:47:25 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Valiant on 05 April, 2020, 12:27:09 am
I have a Panasonic SD250 I think, courtesy of Suzuki. It's been working its little heart out the last two weeks making 3-4 loaves a day that are then shared with some of the poor/elderly/isolating people in the building. So far it's not missed a beat.

Oh and for myself I follow the standard recipe but I tend to add in some dried parsley, chilli powder and grated hard cheese. Nom
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hatler on 06 April, 2020, 10:51:04 pm
I couldn't get to it in time to get a photo of the untouched loaf.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49743413228_2e517be6d6_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 07 April, 2020, 01:11:14 pm
OK. Slight amount of symmetry lost as it cooled.

(http://pictures.pcolbeck.fastmail.fm/Photos/bread1.jpg)

(http://pictures.pcolbeck.fastmail.fm/Photos/bread2.jpg)

Nice  :thumbsup:. BTW, my machine looks the same as yours.

I have flour again :smug:. Tesco was completely out last week when I went but a local bakery was able to supply me some.

I'll post a picture of my next loaf (if I remember...).

Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 08 April, 2020, 12:14:00 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49749585182_8b5cb0e48d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iNcCqE)
P1030332 (https://flic.kr/p/2iNcCqE) by pencyclist (https://www.flickr.com/photos/38357939@N02/), on Flickr

Approx 25% wholemeal 400g, basic white cycle, dark crust. The crust has bubbled a little in a couple of places but no complaints there.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: pcolbeck on 24 April, 2020, 08:05:16 am
I'm experimenting with things other than "white loaf"  or "wholemeal loaf", apparently there are settings other than 1 or 4 on the Panasonic, who knew? :)

Did a 100% spelt loaf (50% white spelt 50% wholemeal spelt) and its very nice. Makes fantastic toast.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Ham on 24 April, 2020, 08:06:54 am
A good experiment is a tablespoon of caraway seeds in a loaf, makes for great toast (as long as you like that kind of thing, obv)
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hellymedic on 24 April, 2020, 05:38:37 pm
A good experiment is a tablespoon of caraway seeds in a loaf, makes for great toast (as long as you like that kind of thing, obv)

Memories of Grodz' rye...?
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Ham on 24 April, 2020, 05:45:24 pm
'twas a revelation when I found out the flavour was caraway, and that the rye was virtually unnoticeable..... Why did they call it a rye loaf?
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: hellymedic on 24 April, 2020, 06:32:21 pm
I've no idea how much rye flour is in these loaves.
My other encounters with rye are pumpernickel, Ryvita & similar crispbreads and Grodz' black rye loaf, all of which are very dark.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: citoyen on 24 April, 2020, 07:19:54 pm
Pumpernickel is a good way of explaining why most rye bread only contains a small proportion of rye flour.

I mean, I like pumpernickel well enough but...
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: SteveC on 24 April, 2020, 08:00:45 pm
I have once tried to make bread entirely with rye flour. Kneading it was a seriously good workout!
Tasted fine, but not good enough to make the work worthwhile.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 24 April, 2020, 08:38:00 pm
Realised today I haven't used my breadmaker since the first week of lockdown. Initially because we ran out of (wholemeal) flour and couldn't get any more, but subsequently because with everyone home all day, there's always someone to go out and "support local enterprise" (we have two decent bakeries within half a mile tops – three if you count Hobbs House, which I don't; their bread is great but too expensive and tends to verge on the poncy).
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: fuaran on 24 April, 2020, 09:48:00 pm
I've now got a breadmaker - Panasonic SD-ZB2502
Made a few loafs, works fine, nice and easy to do. Set the timer last night, fresh bread ready at lunch time. Tried the XL size (600g flour) - it is rather tall, not the easiest to slice.
(https://i.imgur.com/XyBtHIIl.jpg)

My brother works at the wholesalers, so got me a 16kg sack of strong white flour, plus 500g of yeast. Should keep me going for a while.
And will try some more interesting ingredients. Noticed a recipe in the instructions for cider apple bread.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Woofage on 14 May, 2020, 10:28:30 am
I've been using fresh yeast for the past week or so. Can't use the timer function but that's no hardship as the results are better :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: pcolbeck on 14 May, 2020, 11:32:19 am
I've now got a breadmaker - Panasonic SD-ZB2502
Made a few loafs, works fine, nice and easy to do. Set the timer last night, fresh bread ready at lunch time. Tried the XL size (600g flour) - it is rather tall, not the easiest to slice.

After having one of these for a couple of years a solution to this finally dawned on my last week. Cut a crust off one end then stand the loaf on the cut side. Its now a much better shape for slicing!
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Wowbagger on 15 May, 2020, 03:43:32 pm
I've now got a breadmaker - Panasonic SD-ZB2502
Made a few loafs, works fine, nice and easy to do. Set the timer last night, fresh bread ready at lunch time. Tried the XL size (600g flour) - it is rather tall, not the easiest to slice.

After having one of these for a couple of years a solution to this finally dawned on my last week. Cut a crust off one end then stand the loaf on the cut side. Its now a much better shape for slicing!

I used to make 600g loaves pretty well all the time. We would slice it straight down the middle and treat it as two loaves.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: andrewc on 29 July, 2023, 10:05:56 pm
I just made a basic rye loaf using 500g of flour, the first time I tried this.  What came out was a dense lump that barely filled half the tin.   Lots of small bubbles when I slice it.  Tastes OK.   


Is this normal for rye or have I messed up somehow ?  The yeast was a bit past it's "use by" date, but it's been fine for other recipes.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Wowbagger on 29 July, 2023, 10:30:26 pm
Do you have a special rye paddle?

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/t2wAAOSw3hBgFQ9s/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: andrewc on 29 July, 2023, 10:55:30 pm
Yes, and it was used.   Whenever I've bought rye or pumpernickel from local delis it's been similarly dense, I just want to know if the lack of rising is normal.  With white flour I'd have expected the loaf to fill the tin.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: rafletcher on 30 July, 2023, 08:52:34 am
Sounds right for rye bread to me.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Feanor on 30 July, 2023, 09:15:31 am
Yarp, sounds about right, esp if you use 100% rye.
Most commercial rye loafs will be around 50% rye.

Mine have always been a bit poor, similar to the MDF you describe.
I now tend to use one of the Forkish recipes with a blend of white, wholemeal and rye now. The rye % is fairly low, but  enough to taste.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: CAMRAMan on 03 August, 2023, 08:36:08 pm
I've just bought a secondhand Panasonic for £25. It made a very decent wholemeal loaf yesterday using a very basic recipe. I think I'll try 75/25% wholemeal/strong white flour mix next to lighten it a little.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Feanor on 03 August, 2023, 11:05:53 pm
In my experience of breadmaking, I find 40% wholemeal to be a sweet spot if you want a wholemeal loaf. More than that starts to become a tad hair shirt. YMMV.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: CAMRAMan on 05 August, 2023, 10:26:51 am
I've just gone for a 3:1 wholemeal/white flour mix to see how it turns out. I forgot to put the yeast in the dispenser and chucked it into the mixture. I'll find out in 5 hours whether it matters, I suppose.

I've also ground up some fennel seeds and star anis and added it. When I was in Sweden they used those as a bread flavouring. The cumin seeds didn't show up in the delivery, but I'll try those next time too.


Edit: I'm quite happy with the results of the ratio above. The texture seems fine. Putting the yeast into the mixture doesn't seem to have affected things at all. 1tsp of the spice mix is a bit subtle, so I'll try a couple next time.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Wowbagger on 05 August, 2023, 10:32:29 am
Mine are 50% wholemeal, 25% strong white and 25% malted brown, this last a bit "granary loaf" like. All the flour is from Marriage's in Chelmsford. It makes a lovely loaf, but I only do the small ones these days: a 400g loaf lasts Jan and me between 2 and 3 days. Definitely past its best on the 3rd day, but still perfectly edible.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: rogerzilla on 05 August, 2023, 10:33:53 am
I don't have one, for the simple reason that I would eat far too much of it and become an even fatter bastard.

When there were two of us in the house to eat it, I generally used a French recipe.  It goes off fast but has no fat.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Wowbagger on 05 August, 2023, 06:15:08 pm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-E6l7dWKW2lMG2PQ4k0b2Nd1DMbMzSHJ08sa5wxVvRZGEp7TNTpI-MZQNDT6IMTnn9yhaud8BNatjAuDBTnX4NgwjzZWpZRQeEi6mSBUOwGX8Lsu2w=w2400)

Today's effort. Still too hot to eat.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: CAMRAMan on 06 August, 2023, 06:04:50 pm
I hadn't considered that it takes a good deal longer to toast this bread than the Chorleywood crap. Lovely and crisp, so perfect for scrambled eggs on toast, etc., so worth the wait.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: CAMRAMan on 07 August, 2023, 05:36:32 pm
Maybe one for a new thread, but are the panel using anything to aid slicing? My half-German friend suggested a Zassenhaus slicer, but I have neither the room, nor the funds for something so useful. Any bread knife recommendations?
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: andrewc on 07 August, 2023, 05:59:13 pm
This works for me.


https://www.sourdough.co.uk/courses/opinel-bread-knife/ (https://www.sourdough.co.uk/courses/opinel-bread-knife/)
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 07 August, 2023, 06:05:17 pm
I hadn't considered that it takes a good deal longer to toast this bread than the Chorleywood crap. Lovely and crisp, so perfect for scrambled eggs on toast, etc., so worth the wait.

I've started storing a loaf of Chorleywood crap in the freezer specifically to make toast. I really don't like the toast of home made bread, but then I like my toast to be brown and soft, not like shatter like a ryvita.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: robgul on 07 August, 2023, 06:19:30 pm
I hadn't considered that it takes a good deal longer to toast this bread than the Chorleywood crap. Lovely and crisp, so perfect for scrambled eggs on toast, etc., so worth the wait.

I've started storing a loaf of Chorleywood crap in the freezer specifically to make toast. I really don't like the toast of home made bread, but then I like my toast to be brown and soft, not like shatter like a ryvita.

On the subject of toast and toasters . . . our Kitchen Aid 2 slice machine decided yesterday afternoon (whilst unattended - we only eat toast in the morning ;D) to bleep and for the bread lift mechanism to spring into action, without bread in it, going up and down about every 90 seconds!  No amount of power off/power on or different toasting settings would stop it!

So, up to the loft to find the Dualit 3 slicer we used to use to bring it back into service pro tem.

GN is that Kitchen Aid said it's still under warranty so will be replaced - packed up and collected by UPS 2 hours later.  Looks like a new one will be here within days.

Have to say the the toasting in the Kitchen Aid is better than the Dualit as the KA has defined settings rather than a random time dial on the Dualit - and oh, back to the topic, all our bread save for the occasional purchased sourdough is made in a Panasonic with flour bulk-purchased from Shipton Mill.  Much better than Chorleywood bread crap, and you know what's in it.
Title: Re: Breadmakers
Post by: CAMRAMan on 13 September, 2023, 03:42:07 pm
I've settled on 350g of wholemeal flour, 150g of strong, white flour (both Sainsbury's), 1 tbsp olive oil, a tsp each of salt and sugar and, most significantly, Allison's tinned yeast. The latter has risen the bread much better than Sainsbury's sachet stuff. Cheaper too, and less packaging. 350ml water and my spice mix finishes the recipe.