Author Topic: Should I go electric ?. (Read 18250 times)

menthel · « **Reply #75 on:** 26 March, 2018, 10:34:49 am »

Hey cycleman, having met you in your excitement pre-electric I am glad to hear it is going so well!

cycleman · « **Reply #76 on:** 26 March, 2018, 09:30:57 pm »

Thanks menthel , I did our weekly Tesco run today with the trailer on the back and with a full load of shopping on the trailer I was doing 12mph on the way back

Polar Bear · « **Reply #77 on:** 26 March, 2018, 09:50:38 pm »

Can I just suggest that you don't show Apollo because he'll be tearing up the camping field at Long Itch with his usual levels of unbridled enthusiasm, and, nobody else will get a go!!!

Torslanda · « **Reply #78 on:** 26 March, 2018, 10:53:40 pm »

Donuts! The camping field will look like the Somme...

Torslanda · « **Reply #79 on:** 28 March, 2018, 03:52:18 pm »

After a phone call from a VERY happy sounding Cycleman this aft, I'm calling result!

<Proud bike shop owner moment>

cycleman · « **Reply #80 on:** 28 March, 2018, 08:38:39 pm »

Good , you should be proud

Jacomus · « **Reply #81 on:** 29 March, 2018, 06:46:11 pm »

I spotted (and chatted to) a happily electrified cycleman this afternoon. The trike looks very smart. Hope your ride wasn’t too wet!:thumbsup:

Turns out he didn’t know anything about the weight limit I was dramatically exceeding, but I didn’t get stuck, successfully made my delivery and am now safely ensconced in a nearby layby for the night.

Butterfly · « **Reply #82 on:** 30 March, 2018, 09:28:07 am »

That's brilliant news Cycleman. Well done Torslanda

cycleman · « **Reply #83 on:** 30 March, 2018, 08:03:40 pm »

Quote from: Jacomus on 29 March, 2018, 06:46:11 pm

I spotted (and chatted to) a happily electrified cycleman this afternoon. The trike looks very smart. Hope your ride wasn’t too wet!:thumbsup:

Turns out he didn’t know anything about the weight limit I was dramatically exceeding, but I didn’t get stuck, successfully made my delivery and am now safely ensconced in a nearby layby for the night.

Nice to see you jacomus , we were a bit damp by the time we got back but the electrics survived so I am happy . Do you pick up a load to take back up north or run back light ? . More rain here today so just a mile to the local shop and back. .

cycleman · « **Reply #84 on:** 30 March, 2018, 08:05:46 pm »

Quote from: Butterfly on 30 March, 2018, 09:28:07 am

That's brilliant news Cycleman. Well done Torslanda

How is your electric cycle going butterfly ? . :

Butterfly · « **Reply #85 on:** 30 March, 2018, 08:26:40 pm »

Quote from: cycleman on 30 March, 2018, 08:05:46 pm

Quote from: Butterfly on 30 March, 2018, 09:28:07 am
That's brilliant news Cycleman. Well done Torslanda

How is your electric cycle going butterfly ? . :

Brilliant! I've stopped avoiding going into Kinver because of the hill on the way home

I've been along the tow path in both directions out of Kinver and I'm going to go a bit further once the weather dries out a bit. It's fantastic! Even the duck who hates change started to come round to the idea once we zoomed away from a car on a country lane.

Polar Bear · « **Reply #86 on:** 30 March, 2018, 09:42:26 pm »

Does this mean that we can expect two electric assists at Long Itch?

Torslanda · « **Reply #87 on:** 30 March, 2018, 10:51:16 pm »

Possibly three . . .

Butterfly · « **Reply #88 on:** 31 March, 2018, 08:51:37 am »

Quote from: Torslanda on 30 March, 2018, 10:51:16 pm

Possibly three . . .

Polar Bear · « **Reply #89 on:** 31 March, 2018, 01:01:11 pm »

I wonder when the tipping point of more assisted and hob will happen. Barakta is assisted as we know so that's possibly three, potentially 4 if Tors gets spannering!

cycleman · « **Reply #90 on:** 10 April, 2018, 09:32:28 pm »

I have been chatting to nobby this evening and he is using the bafang electric assistance system .he says that he has been told by his supplier that the battery display on the control panel is more accurate than the battery led's . Torslanda said the battery led's are more accurate . Anyone know who's got it right as I am confused as usual

Kim · « **Reply #91 on:** 10 April, 2018, 10:01:10 pm »

Neither will be right. They'll just be measuring the system voltage and inferring how much capacity should be left in the battery from that^[1], probably with sufficient fudge factors so you don't readily notice them giving false readings as the motor draws current or when the battery temperature changes. It's like the battery indicator on a mobile phone in that respect.

Even with a proper power meter measuring and integrating the current it's not an exact science. That'll give you an admirably precise figure for how much energy you've actually used, but it still educated guesswork for what's actually left in the battery.

Like the petrol-o-meter in a car, it's mostly going to be about getting a sense of how big a pinch of salt to apply to the displayed reading. You may well find that a 'bar' on the control panel's display means something slightly different to an LED on the battery, simply because the designer has chosen different voltages for them to light up at - that doesn't mean either is wrong, though it may make one more useful than the other. Unlike the petrol-o-meter in the Fiat Of The Apocalypse, it should be reasonably consistent with itself, and the reading shouldn't change when you go round roundabouts

_{[1] Which is quite hard to do well with lithium-ion batteries, as they tend to give more or less the same voltage for ages, before tailing off at the end.}

nobby · « **Reply #92 on:** 11 April, 2018, 07:50:40 am »

Hi Kim

I've been told that these batteries don't imprint and you can charge them any time whatever the residue power left is, and that they should be allowed to run down completely and recharged to full about every three months.

Is that correct? I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Regards

Kim · « **Reply #93 on:** 11 April, 2018, 02:30:26 pm »

Quote from: nobby on 11 April, 2018, 07:50:40 am

I've been told that these batteries don't imprint and you can charge them any time whatever the residue power left is

This is true. Memory effect was mostly a NiCad and to a lesser extent NiMH thing.

Quote

and that they should be allowed to run down completely and recharged to full about every three months.

Not an inherent requirement of the battery, but might be needed to calibrate the battery-management electronics (so it knows how to estimate the battery capacity). If it tells you to do it in the manual, then there's probably a good reason. If not, I wouldn't bother unless I wanted to measure the total capacity of the battery (which will slowly decline over its lifetime).

The general rule with lithium-ion batteries is that they really don't like to be deeply discharged. Somewhere in the electronics will be some logic that stops the system drawing power when the battery reaches a minimum safe voltage, so (other than concerns about range or not having power for lights or whatever) you don't have to worry about running them flat in use. Since there's a small amount of self-discharge and probably quiescent current from the battery management circuits it will continue to discharge below this point if left for long periods (weeks) in a discharged state. On that basis, the rule of thumb is if in doubt, recharge. Certainly charge the battery before leaving it unused for long periods.

mattc · « **Reply #94 on:** 11 April, 2018, 04:49:43 pm »

Li-Ion last much longer if they are only ever partially discharged.

Satellites mostly only use ~5% of total capacity each day before the solar panels charge their cells up again. They go through 365 (or more!) cycles a year, and typically last 5-10 years with negligible degradation (despite quite a hostile environment).

How many people get that kind of life out of the cells in their torches/radios/lights??

mattc · « **Reply #95 on:** 11 April, 2018, 04:54:13 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 11 April, 2018, 02:30:26 pm

On that basis, the rule of thumb is if in doubt, recharge. Certainly charge the battery before leaving it unused for long periods.

I think that last bit isn't QUITE true - they store best when partially discharged (and kept in a kind temperature range - usually cooler than a warm UK house, but check the spec). But certainly it's best to avoid letting them fully discharge

This is why trickle chargers are good (even though they trigger my knee-jerk "WASTE OF MONEY" reflex!)

CAMRAMan · « **Reply #96 on:** 11 April, 2018, 05:04:48 pm »

My Oxygen battery is getting on for three years old & has seen better days. I average 16.5MPH on my 8.5-9.5-mile commute and reckon I'm down to less than half a batteryful by the time I get home. That is still very respectable, given the temperature & speed, but not a patch on what I was achieving a couple of years ago. I estimate it has been through 3-400 hundred charging cycles and rarely left unused for more than a couple of weeks.

My other 9-month-old ebike battery - on paper far better - has gone belly up after being left partially charged for a month or so. Probably the BMS has switched it off, as it won't take a charge.

cycleman · « **Reply #97 on:** 11 April, 2018, 05:18:41 pm »

So how low should I drain the battery to condition it .should I run it right down. If so I have not discharged it enough on the first discharge .

Kim · « **Reply #98 on:** 11 April, 2018, 05:20:07 pm »

Quote from: cycleman on 11 April, 2018, 05:18:41 pm

So how low should I drain the battery to condition it .should I run it right down. If so I have not discharged it enough on the first discharge .

If it matters, do what it says in the manual, rather than asking us.

cycleman · « **Reply #99 on:** 11 April, 2018, 05:29:41 pm »

I don't have a manual for the battery s . Hence my query