Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)

[rogerzilla]

Some people travel with an astonishing amount of stuff.  I can do a working week with one small, and I mean small, holdall.

[Jaded]

I used to go to Uni on the train. Bike, luggage, rucksack, etc.

[mattc]

There isn't enough space for conventional luggage, as in suitcases and similar, which is why it ends up in the bike cupboard.

I took 3 trains this weekend on non-GWR trains with bike cupboards; on two of them people had to stand in the cupboards. That was the biggest problem, not the 1-2 cyclists trying to use the service.

Both trains could have had more coaches, but clearly the planners thought it unnecessary. And this was at the weekend, when the timetable has plenty of space in it. (One of them was just a single coach - they were supposed to bolt on a second* but failed (by about 18"). It would have been pretty jammed with the 2nd coach attached  )


_{*Nottingham -> Matlock for locals}

[Oxford_Guy]

I wouldn't object to paying something for taking a non-folding bike on a train, provided the actual bike carrying service and capacity offered was half decent and easily book-able (i.e.  not like now...), and the charge fair (e.g.  more for intercity routes, less for local routes). Think in France it's 10 Euros to take a bike on the TGV and other mainline trains, which seems reasonable, though we did once find the bike space completely full of luggage :-(

[rogerzilla]

The problem is that too many people are using too few trains on a network full to capacity.  The train companies prioritise seats on new trains and don't really want non-paying luggage or bike space.  One consequence is that unbooked seats get used for luggage and, unless you like a big dose of f*** off, you ask to sit down at your peril.  It's not as if you'll find the train manager.

[yorkie]

Are you sure they are going in the middle? One end of the 153s has the same cab as a 155 so shouldn't have any problems with fitting kit that end I wouldn't have thought. the 156s currently on the line have similar cabs. The tiny cab is only at the converted end.

When I was in Lairg last week the hotel owner (who was also on the local tourist group) thought they were getting some class 153s to add to their trains on the Far North line. I would be surprised if they put a 153 in the middle of a 158, it would screw the air-con in the other two carriages up more than normal, if nothing else.

Aye, it's going in the middle. Mainly so Scotrail don't need to obtain any more RETB (signalling system) sets, which are in extremely short supply! The 153s will be shunted in and out as required for summer and winter usage at the depot, so drivers won't need traction knowledge (other than fault finding/evacuation methods) on the 153s (other than a couple of drivers at the main depot in Glasgow).

(There is sufficient difference between the BR/Leyland class 155/153 big cab and the Metro-Cammell class 156 cab for the conversion course to last several days, if not longer. Driver training doesn't just cover "This makes it go and this makes it stop", there's also fault finding and location of circuit breakers and fire extinguishers, etc. Plus, if a driver doesn't drive that type of stock for more than 6 months, they have to start again from scratch! The same applies for route knowledge, incidentally!)

There is a plan for them on the Far North Line eventually (if they work out on the WHL and some more are available in "not too knackered" condition). The air-con shouldn't be a problem, as only the saloon is a/c on a 158, not the vestibule - from past experience riding in the vestibule of EMT and Northern class 158s in summer.

[mattc]

The problem is that too many people are using too few trains on a network full to capacity.

But they're the network isn't full to capacity at the weekends. There just isn't enough space supplied by the operators (as my post above demonstrates).

The Friday morning X-COuntry train I took was fine. Bike reservation, everything worked fine. A few spare seats, not loads.

[mattc]

I wouldn't object to paying something for taking a non-folding bike on a train, provided the actual bike carrying service and capacity offered was half decent and easily book-able (i.e.  not like now...), and the charge fair (e.g.  more for intercity routes, less for local routes). Think in France it's 10 Euros to take a bike on the TGV and other mainline trains, which seems reasonable, though we did once find the bike space completely full of luggage :-(

Yup, totally agree.

The current system is just stoopid. Created by commitee, no doubt!

[Wowbagger]

You cannot take bikes on some of the TGVs and those that you can are very short of space. Quite often, in France and Germany you have to catch a slower train which then does allow bike spaces.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The problem is that too many people are using too few trains on a network full to capacity.

But they're not full to capacity at the weekends. There just isn't enough space supplied by the operators (as my post above demonstrates).

The Friday morning X-COuntry train I took was fine. Bike reservation, everything worked fine.

I don't know about XC or whoever runs the Nottingham-Matlock service, but one of the problems faced by GWR is lack of drivers, particularly at weekends.

[SA_SA_SA_SA]

Interesting that they (the 153 cycle carriages) must go in the middle rather than being tacked on the end as necessary due to RETB conversion issues... but
if you extend the idea to new builds (eg for IEP), a tackable-onable cycle/luggage van is surely useful? If it could be styled/painted to match any modern DMU/EMU/bi/tri-mode then surely useful.

On a different note, surely it would make sense to standardise cab designs more?

[rogerzilla]

I'm going to grink them tonight, with photos of the nonfunctioning reservation display and surfboard interlopers, and tell them that they run a Bad Railway.

[Kim]

Nothing against the use of the space for surfboards - it seemed to be something that GWR were keen on when they specified the trains - but surely they should be booked in as bicycles.

[toontra]

Nothing against the use of the space for surfboards - it seemed to be something that GWR were keen on when they specified the trains - but surely they should be booked in as bicycles.

Indeed, certainly most airlines put similar restrictions on bikes and other bulky sports equipment.

Can't help but think that surfboards make better propaganda for GWR ("get away to the Cornish riviera") than pesky old cyclists.

Still no response from GWR CR - no surprise there.

[yorkie]

Interesting that they (the 153 cycle carriages) must go in the middle rather than being tacked on the end as necessary due to RETB conversion issues... but
if you extend the idea to new builds (eg for IEP), a tackable-onable cycle/luggage van is surely useful? If it could be styled/painted to match any modern DMU/EMU/bi/tri-mode then surely useful.

On a different note, surely it would make sense to standardise cab designs more?

I wouldn't mind a universal "tackable-onable cycle/luggage van" at all, to be honest, but I think the chances of getting one this side of the next millennium are pretty slim!!

As far as standardising cab design is concerned, the big problem is which one do you go with? CAF, Stadler, Bombadier, Alstom, Siemens...

...and that's before you take into account that EMUs and DMUs are generally different and whether you have a corridor connection on the front or not...


The only really close to "standardised" cab design in recent years is the one CAF are using on the class 195 DMU and class 331 EMU for Northern. The only difference between the cabs is 2 buttons - on the DMU they start and stop the engines, on the EMU they raise and lower the pantograph. Simples!!

[jiberjaber]

Meanwhile on Virgin West Coast.... Conveniently in the same car as the bike storage!

[rafletcher]

I wouldn't mind a universal "tackable-onable cycle/luggage van" at all, to be honest, but I think the chances of getting one this side of the next millennium are pretty slim!!

You mean like the "Guards van" we had on Southern about, oooh, 30 years ago?

[yorkie]

That's the one!!

We used to have them on trains up here as well, but they don't fit into the "pack in as many seats as possible to make a bigger profit" philosophy as employed by the privatised train operators!

[yorkie]

Meanwhile on Virgin West Coast.... Conveniently in the same car as the bike storage!

Whereas on the East Coast, if it's an HST where the bike space is in coach A, you'll get a seat reservation in coach F and if it's an electric Mk IV set where the bike space is in coach P, you'll get a seat reservation in coach C!

[jiberjaber]

Yep, my experience back from Edinburgh was I had to wait in first class to be close to the bike to get it off in Darlington... Seat was loads of carriages away from that, but can't remember which one it was.

[Canardly]

Ah passengers instead of customers now that's novel.

[Kim]

Meanwhile on Virgin West Coast.... Conveniently in the same car as the bike storage!

It doesn't have the intelligence to give you that seat on your seat reservation, thobut.  (Top tip:  Book the quiet coach, then your reserved seat is also in Coach A)

[Phil W]

We found that out last week when a guard told us about the seats reserved for cyclists. Used them on our return trip and it made collecting the bikes at the end much less stressful.

[jiberjaber]

Meanwhile on Virgin West Coast.... Conveniently in the same car as the bike storage!

It doesn't have the intelligence to give you that seat on your seat reservation, thobut.  (Top tip:  Book the quiet coach, then your reserved seat is also in Coach A)

It's Half-term, the quiet coach was not living up to expectations in either direction to Mordor!

[Cudzoziemiec]

Meanwhile on Virgin West Coast.... Conveniently in the same car as the bike storage!

Whereas on the East Coast, if it's an HST where the bike space is in coach A, you'll get a seat reservation in coach F and if it's an electric Mk IV set where the bike space is in coach P, you'll get a seat reservation in coach C!

Some booking engines will let you choose your seat.