Sky - gaming the system?

[Hot Flatus]

No matter what the folk on YACF think or believe, no matter what others may think such as Kimmage, the fact remains that no evidence has been presented to warrant the relevant authorities to take action or sanctions against either Sky or Wiggins.  Folk may believe it stinks like a rotting fish and there are lies stacked atop of lies.  All well and good and folk are entitled to their opinion.  However, until it is proven that Wiggins and Sky, or indeed UCI, did something illegal regarding what Wiggins took, then everything is just hot air and does not change the records.

If Sky pushed the limits of a system to the absolute boundary, then so be it.  If UCI are dishonest or corrupt then every team has the option to exploit them.  If folk don't like it then consider what you can do about it other than post on YACF.  I can only assume that posting on YACF enables a vent for frustration or anger which might help folk.  Alternatively, what was done was legal and while poor protocol and practices have been identified, there is a lack of evidence to support sanctions.

Very easy to make noise about something.

Tell that to the Parliamentary  Committee

[Exit Stage Left]

When Armstrong finally threw in the towel over his doping I compared it to the scene in 'The Wizard of Oz' when the curtain is pulled back, and the wizard is revealed as a product of smoke and mirrors.

The moral of the story was that the protagonists were changed by the journey, and became what they admired through their trials. Millions got on their bikes because of Lance, and that didn't change because of his fall from grace. Germany went on the same journey through Ullrich, and Denmark through Riis.

I'm actually more concerned about Health and Safety. I expect the teams to game the system, but I don't want to see riders dying. The example of Tommy Simpson is interesting, he still has a heroic quality. There obviously has to be a system for looking after the health of the athletes, and we have to expect that the authorities  allow TUE's.

Getting Wiggins to Paris in yellow struck me as an amazing achievement, mainly due to his highly-strung temperament. The most interesting dynamic was his relationship with Cavendish. Wiggins seem to fixate on compensating for Cav's lack of an Olympic medal, and that diverted his nerves. It also led to a lot of resentment of Sky, who took too much out of the 2012 Tour.

[citoyen]

Tell that to the Parliamentary  Committee

Clearly Veloman doesn't consider them a "relevant authority", nor does he consider that what they are investigating amounts to "evidence".

He is entitled to his opinion.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Even if his opinion is wrong, which it is.

[citoyen]

Even if his opinion is wrong, which it is.

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

[citoyen]

Getting Wiggins to Paris in yellow struck me as an amazing achievement, mainly due to his highly-strung temperament.

Maybe he just rode his bike faster to get away from idiots banging on about chimps and trying to make him drink beetroot juice.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Even if his opinion is wrong, which it is.

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

It doesn't matter. As always, Veloman and I will enjoy each other's company the next time we meet.

[Exit Stage Left]

Getting Wiggins to Paris in yellow struck me as an amazing achievement, mainly due to his highly-strung temperament.

Maybe he just rode his bike faster to get away from idiots banging on about chimps and trying to make him drink beetroot juice.

Wiggins was never as bad as Cadel Evans, the temptation to medicate for temperament must be enormous.

Speaking as someone who has a problem sleeping before a big event, I've always found that aspect of the Tour the most interesting. The best stage ever may have been when Landis regained yellow.

[citoyen]

It doesn't matter. As always, veloman and I will enjoy each other's company the next time we meet.

Luckily, there are always other subjects to talk about that don't generate so much heat.

[citoyen]

Wiggins was never as bad as Cadel Evans, the temptation to medicate for temperament must be enormous.

I always thought Wiggo's choice of medication came in a bottle rather than a syringe though.

[Exit Stage Left]

He likes the odd cigarette as well.

[Veloman]

No matter what the folk on YACF think ........

Tell that to the Parliamentary Committee

Parliamentary Committees are sub-legislative and have very little bite, although their bark may attract the attention of many, they are in essence a fairly tame breed.  Information here:

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/role/

Quite surprised the politicians on the many committees are seen in such high esteem considering the comments politicians often receive on YACF!

[Veloman]

It doesn't matter. As always, veloman and I will enjoy each other's company the next time we meet.

And I very much look forward to that, particularly if I am following your wheel!  Very pleased to hear you are back on the bike and making progress.  (I have even acquired a bike with mudguards and tried a Brookes saddle but, alas, swopped it as it was creaking too much and I was informed by those I ride with to "sort it!")

Good to agree to disagree!

[Veloman]

Maybe he just rode his bike faster to get away from idiots banging on about chimps and trying to make him drink beetroot juice.

Which goes to show that inclusion of mind coaching and subtle changes of diet can result in a marked improvement in performance within the team.  Marginal gains by reverse psychology and physiology!

[mattc]

Tell that to the Parliamentary  Committee

Clearly Veloman doesn't consider them a "relevant authority", nor does he consider that what they are investigating amounts to "evidence".

He is entitled to his opinion.

It's their job to look for evidence, and to assess what they find.

It's debatable whether the hearsay they have found so far is more than circumstantial. Applying for a TUE is within the rules, even if they employ people with a dodgy past record.

I say debatable quite deliberately; it seems very possible at this stage that they might be swayed by what they've already heard, and they might find out more damning stuff. We just don't know. This is not affected by posters on this thread announcing the guilt of Team Sky and all who sail in her.

[Hot Flatus]

What hearsay?  There isn't any hearsay.

There would be no DCMS inquiry including Team Sky were it not for the Fancy Bears hack revealing Wiggins's multitude of TUES before major stage races. Prior to that, all we had to go on was Wiggins telling us he'd never had an injection. Now we know that is a lie. The revelations of the "package" came off the back of this. We still don't really know what happened, but we do know that the story Sky attempted to tell has been contradicted several times by people involved, we also know that it is inconsistent. Now we know that the reason that there is little evidence is because records were either not kept, or records went missing.

We also now know that other Sky doctors prevented Wiggins doctor from applying for more TUES.  So clearly THEY felt something was very wrong.

DCMS have assessed the evidence, and as a result have been pretty damning of Team Sky.

That's a pretty big indictment of the self-professed 'cleanest team ever'.

[Hot Flatus]

Ukad investigates claim Team Sky breached ‘no needles’ policy

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/apr/13/ukad-team-sky-breached-no-needles-allegation?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Well, well, well.

The most ethical team has been breaking UCI rules, according to ex-employee

[mattc]

Ukad investigates claim Team Sky breached ‘no needles’ policy

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/apr/13/ukad-team-sky-breached-no-needles-allegation?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Well, well, well.

The most ethical team has been breaking UCI rules

[simonp]

I had thought that the UCI no-needles policy was a blanket ban. That article suggests otherwise, i.e. it's only around races.

[Hot Flatus]

I don't see how it could be a blanket ban.

What if an athlete legitimately needed an injection of powerful steroids normally intended for hospitalised patients, in order to cure their hayfever prior to a Grand Tour?

[Hot Flatus]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4408938/UKAD-look-claim-Team-Sky-breached-no-needles-policy.html

"there is also a claim that medical exemptions were used ‘tactically’ by Team Sky ‘to support the health of a rider with an ultimate aim of supporting performance’. The whistleblower added: ‘Using TUEs was openly discussed in hushed voices.’"

A.k.a. cheating.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The UCI approved the TUEs, so it is all above board and a clever/ legal use of loopholes/ medical necessities.

It isn't cheating. Or so it will claimed. Why did the UCI approve these TUEs anyway?

[citoyen]

I didn't realise until someone mentioned it on twitter yesterday but Dumoulin is the first GT winner from an MPCC team.

No doubt Flatus and others will be pleased. I have to say that the racing certainly looked very 'human' at times.

ETA: our fact-checking department says Garmin were members when Hesjedal won the Giro in 2012, while Astana were provisional members when Nibali won in 2013, and afaict full members when he won the Tour in 2014. Oh well!

[simonp]

I would've needed a TUE on Sunday to use the medication I bought at the chemist on Friday. Instead I used something marginally less effective that isn't banned in competition. Not competing in the next month or so, so I can have the steroids now.

[sg37409]

Sky / BC   Lines are blurred. This is a bit off topic to Sky's TUEs etc, but similar bad practice and attitudes by the same people.
British Cycling: Jess Varnish 'insulted' by report into alleged bullying