Sky - gaming the system?

[TigaSefi]

Get rid of TUE's completely. if you're not fit on race day, tough titties! Still race or drop out altogether!

It makes life simpler, but it's not something that you can get through WADA.
Are they OK out of competition?
What about people who require medication for lifelong conditions?

If you need medication, retire from said race or races and get treated under WADA. TUEs are just simply removed from WT and one day races. Aren’t people who have lifelong treatments already banned from competing professionally. Their system would never be clean enough.

[joy of essex]

It  did seem to be an exercise in hanging Shane Sutton out to dry by Sky , BC and Brailsford.

It missed  out on  BC's neglect of  the Women's team in that period. The use of Nicole Cook winning in Bejing was unintentionally ironic.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Perhaps people with lifelong conditions/ treatments shouldn't race if their medication is performance enhancing, which is why they would need a TUE.

[sg37409]

It missed  out on  BC's neglect of  the Women's team in that period. The use of Nicole Cook winning in Bejing was unintentionally ironic.

It annoyed me when they said it all started with the team sprint in Beijing, NC was the first gold medal there.
I know, I'm easily annoyed when it comes to british cycling.

[Jakob]

What about people who require medication for lifelong conditions?

If they require drugs that are considered performing enhancing, then they shouldn't compete.

For out of competition, there needs to be a substantial period between the drug and the competition (months).

[Exit Stage Left]

It missed  out on  BC's neglect of  the Women's team in that period. The use of Nicole Cook winning in Bejing was unintentionally ironic.

It annoyed me when they said it all started with the team sprint in Beijing, NC was the first gold medal there.
I know, I'm easily annoyed when it comes to british cycling.

I don't agree with the presence of top-flight professionals in the Olympics. I might be persuaded that there's a place for espoirs, as in soccer. The presence of pros in the  Commonwealth games is even worse. All it's done is to muddy the ethical waters.

[simonp]

What about people who require medication for lifelong conditions?

If they require drugs that are considered performing enhancing, then they shouldn't compete.

For out of competition, there needs to be a substantial period between the drug and the competition (months).

For some anabolic steroids, I think there's evidence it should be lifetime.

[DuncanM]

Get rid of TUE's completely. if you're not fit on race day, tough titties! Still race or drop out altogether!

It makes life simpler, but it's not something that you can get through WADA.
Are they OK out of competition?
What about people who require medication for lifelong conditions?

If you need medication, retire from said race or races and get treated under WADA. TUEs are just simply removed from WT and one day races. Aren’t people who have lifelong treatments already banned from competing professionally. Their system would never be clean enough.

TUEs are part of the WADA code.
And people who require lifelong medication aren't banned automatically.  There is a team of diabetcis in the pro peleton: https://www.teamnovonordisk.com/
My entire family requires thyroid medication because the gland is rubbish - does that mean we just can't compete?

[TigaSefi]

Get rid of TUE's completely. if you're not fit on race day, tough titties! Still race or drop out altogether!

It makes life simpler, but it's not something that you can get through WADA.
Are they OK out of competition?
What about people who require medication for lifelong conditions?

If you need medication, retire from said race or races and get treated under WADA. TUEs are just simply removed from WT and one day races. Aren’t people who have lifelong treatments already banned from competing professionally. Their system would never be clean enough.

TUEs are part of the WADA code.
And people who require lifelong medication aren't banned automatically.  There is a team of diabetcis in the pro peleton: https://www.teamnovonordisk.com/
My entire family requires thyroid medication because the gland is rubbish - does that mean we just can't compete?

By the letter of the law (rules) you can’t compete with WT riders.

[Si S]

Get rid of TUE's completely. if you're not fit on race day, tough titties! Still race or drop out altogether!

It makes life simpler, but it's not something that you can get through WADA.
Are they OK out of competition?
What about people who require medication for lifelong conditions?

If you need medication, retire from said race or races and get treated under WADA. TUEs are just simply removed from WT and one day races. Aren’t people who have lifelong treatments already banned from competing professionally. Their system would never be clean enough.

TUEs are part of the WADA code.
And people who require lifelong medication aren't banned automatically.  There is a team of diabetcis in the pro peleton: https://www.teamnovonordisk.com/
My entire family requires thyroid medication because the gland is rubbish - does that mean we just can't compete?

Not yet, you're only on WADA's watch list 

[DuncanM]

Thyroid is particularly awkward, because misuse of the synthetic hormone can cause the problems that mean you need synthetic hormone for the rest of your life. So you can literally take a healthy person, feed them medicine until their body breaks, and then they require the medicine forever. That's messed up. But, if you are a pro athlete, and then your doctor says you have a legit medical condition that's easily managed, but that you're not allowed to take the medication for because then you lose your livelihood, that's messed up too. Imagine the conversation - "you've got thyroid cancer. The good news is that it's localised and easily solved, you will be perfectly healthy in 6 months. The bad news is that you can't race ever again because your medication is on the banned list."
I was diagnosed with Graves disease at 28 (with a resting HR of 122!). My daughter has just been diagnosed aged 8, which makes her the 5th generation that we know of to have had thyroid issues.

PS if it were to be banned, then it's not just I can't ride with WT, but I can't get a Cat 4 BC license (or ride local TTs?).

[Si S]

Thyroid is particularly awkward, because misuse of the synthetic hormone can cause the problems that mean you need synthetic hormone for the rest of your life. So you can literally take a healthy person, feed them medicine until their body breaks, and then they require the medicine forever. That's messed up. But, if you are a pro athlete, and then your doctor says you have a legit medical condition that's easily managed, but that you're not allowed to take the medication for because then you lose your livelihood, that's messed up too. Imagine the conversation - "you've got thyroid cancer. The good news is that it's localised and easily solved, you will be perfectly healthy in 6 months. The bad news is that you can't race ever again because your medication is on the banned list."
I was diagnosed with Graves disease at 28 (with a resting HR of 122!). My daughter has just been diagnosed aged 8, which makes her the 5th generation that we know of to have had thyroid issues.

PS if it were to be banned, then it's not just I can't ride with WT, but I can't get a Cat 4 BC license (or ride local TTs?).

If it were banned you'd need a TUE to ride Cat 4 and TT's.

[TigaSefi]

Thyroid is particularly awkward, because misuse of the synthetic hormone can cause the problems that mean you need synthetic hormone for the rest of your life. So you can literally take a healthy person, feed them medicine until their body breaks, and then they require the medicine forever. That's messed up. But, if you are a pro athlete, and then your doctor says you have a legit medical condition that's easily managed, but that you're not allowed to take the medication for because then you lose your livelihood, that's messed up too. Imagine the conversation - "you've got thyroid cancer. The good news is that it's localised and easily solved, you will be perfectly healthy in 6 months. The bad news is that you can't race ever again because your medication is on the banned list."
I was diagnosed with Graves disease at 28 (with a resting HR of 122!). My daughter has just been diagnosed aged 8, which makes her the 5th generation that we know of to have had thyroid issues.

PS if it were to be banned, then it's not just I can't ride with WT, but I can't get a Cat 4 BC license (or ride local TTs?).

If it were banned you'd need a TUE to ride Cat 4 and TT's.

And therefore would be viewed with suspicion along with Wiggins etc!

[DuncanM]

Thyroid is particularly awkward, because misuse of the synthetic hormone can cause the problems that mean you need synthetic hormone for the rest of your life. So you can literally take a healthy person, feed them medicine until their body breaks, and then they require the medicine forever. That's messed up. But, if you are a pro athlete, and then your doctor says you have a legit medical condition that's easily managed, but that you're not allowed to take the medication for because then you lose your livelihood, that's messed up too. Imagine the conversation - "you've got thyroid cancer. The good news is that it's localised and easily solved, you will be perfectly healthy in 6 months. The bad news is that you can't race ever again because your medication is on the banned list."
I was diagnosed with Graves disease at 28 (with a resting HR of 122!). My daughter has just been diagnosed aged 8, which makes her the 5th generation that we know of to have had thyroid issues.

PS if it were to be banned, then it's not just I can't ride with WT, but I can't get a Cat 4 BC license (or ride local TTs?).

If it were banned you'd need a TUE to ride Cat 4 and TT's.

And therefore would be viewed with suspicion along with Wiggins etc!

Hence why I find this less black and white than most. I can't stop taking my thyroxine for a few weeks so I can ride TTs! And it would suck if my daughter is never allowed to play competitive sport.
But I understand why they want to monitor it and why TUEs (especially for stuff that has previously been used to dope) have such a bad rep.

[citoyen]

DuncanM, I'm sure we all understand that there are people such as yourself and your daughter who have genuine long-term conditions that require medication, and those people are who the TUE system is designed for - eg Alex Dowsett has a needle exemption because of his haemophilia and AIUI requires hormone therapy to prevent potentially fatal bleeding in a crash.

But that's not what's being discussed here. Dowsett is not the one under suspicion.

[DuncanM]

I agree that Dowsett or myself might be the sort of person for whom TUE is designed. And it's even more annoying that Sky then use it to game the system, because it brings all TUEs into disrepute.
It also means that at least 2 people on this thread have said that all TUEs should be banned, and if you can't compete without your medication, that's just tough. I understand why that's appealing, I'm just trying to provide the counterpoint.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I was disadvantaged in my racing career because I don't have a naturally high hemocrit level (which aids sustained power output) or a naturally high testosterone level (which aids strength development and recovery). Should I take medication to correct/ increase those levels? No, I accept that I am unable to naturally put out the performance that would let me be a professional cyclist. Does it change anything if I had a short-term lowering of those levels, perhaps due to overtraining or illness?

By the way, my partner HK was diagnosed with Graves ages ago. She used to race at a decent level but stopped racing sometime after being diagnosed. She still does a significant number of Audax miles though.

[DuncanM]

There's a difference between genetically having a lower ceiling than a competitor and having a condition that affects your ability to live (eg Dowsett could die if he doesn't take his meds and gets cut in a crash).
And yeah, IMO, get a bee sting which makes you swell up, or a saddle sore, or allergies? HTFU or quit the race.

Graves was unpleasant. When it came back after the initial treatment I had my thyroid removed - now I am drug dependant.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

If your medical treatment isn't performance enhancing, go ahead, take it and race. If your treatment is performance enhancing when taken in excessive quantities or by a healthy athlete, then you don't get to race at any significant level.

[DuncanM]

If your medical treatment isn't performance enhancing, go ahead, take it and race. If your treatment is performance enhancing when taken in excessive quantities or by a healthy athlete, then you don't get to race at any significant level.

Fixed . BC cat 4, local club TT or cross race are subject to the same rules.
I believe WADA have thyroxine on the watch list because of reports of athletes using it to turn up their metabolism and burn weight out of competition. Idiots. 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Let me know when you get drug-tested at a local club TT.

[DuncanM]

It's been done.  This guy was clearly targeted for some reason (presumably a tip-off). http://road.cc/content/news/219702-british-amateur-cyclist-aged-55-handed-two-year-doping-ban

It's kinda beside the point though. If the rules say that taking my drugs is cheating, then to my mind, I have 2 choices - stop taking the drugs (not happening for obvious reasons) or stop competing. Just carrying on assuming I won't get tested is for all intents and purposes cheating. It also means that anyone with the same condition cannot aspire to any level of sporting competition. That's ridiculous.
Besides, imagine getting done for doping while doing a 29 minute 10!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

We have different definitions of a local club TT. I think of them as the mid-week TTs intended for the members of the organising club. That fellow was picked up at an open event typically ridden by members of several clubs with the results logged by CTT for BAR, etc. Club level racing is like 'hit and giggles' cricket - it doesn't even count for bragging rights, so the concept of cheating is pretty much meaningless.

There are heaps of reasons why somebody might not be able to take part in their preferred pastime of low-level racing. Performance enhancing medication being necessary for their health is just another reason.

[simonp]

I have had to stop taking a prescribed medication in order to compete.

Seemed simpler than getting a TUE.

[DuncanM]

There are heaps of reasons why somebody might not be able to take part in their preferred pastime of low-level racing. Performance enhancing medication being necessary for their health is just another reason.

Sure, but creating another reason to restrict a grass roots person as an alternative to enforcing the rules on the pros properly seems draconian to me. It's not like it'll stop the pros from gaming the system (probably using drugs that are yet to be banned, or taking in small enough dosages to be undetectable).
I guess you could create 1 rule for anyone in the whereabouts system and another for everyone else, if you really do want to destroy the TUE system?