Knees

[Charlotte]

I rode the Invicta 300k on Saturday on my Mercian fixie, geared to 47x18T.  On 28c tyres, Uncle Sheldon makes that 69.9".

Now I find a 70" gear about bang on for rolling 200s.  I'm usually on 48x18T, but I went to a 47 chainring to keep drive train and tyre wear a bit more random.  I've never had a problem with my knees.

But towards the end of the ride this weekend (which did involve some fairly unsporting scenery - including the infamous Ide Hill) I was feeling my knees in a way I've not noticed before.  Specifically, it felt like an overenthusiastic doctor had been rapping my right knee repeatedly with his toffee hammer, square on the front of my kneecap.  The left one felt better.  I didn't need to dip into my magic lunchbox of pharmaceutical goodness, though.

Today, I can still feel it.  Not bad, but not gone away.  it makes it's presence felt even when sitting still for a while.  I rode to work on my winter weapon on 48x19T this morning and nothing went pop.

I have several questions for long distance fixers, please:


1) Is this normal?

2) Can I expect more of the same if I don't gear down?

3) Am I doing long term damage to myself?

4) Will it get better?

5) Should I gear down to 47x19T (66.2") for the BCM600?


Answers on the back of a pack of Ibuprofen please 

[Ian H]

It could be a fractional difference between your fixed and another steed.

It could just be your knee(s) getting used to it.

It could be a developing imbalance as your quads get more powerful: there's a tendon somewhere by the kneecap that should run in a groove and can be pulled to one side by imbalanced muscles. This causes pain. The cure or counter-exercise my physio recommended was walking or jogging, especially off-road.

[andygates]

Patellar tracking syndrome?  Not fun.  My cure was a balanced programme of leg weights.

C, are you sure it's not just a bit of soft-tissue grumbling from overuse?

[juliet]

I had the patellar tracking thing as well & it was v unpleasant.  (and briefly led to a period of barely being able to walk at all, then several months of total slowness on the bike.)

C - can you get a referral to a physio?  The imbalanced muscle thing is easier to cure *now* than later, IME.  I've also seen leg-lifts recommended as a cure (sit in chair, raise legs.  Repeat x several.).  Or v-e-r-y s-l-o-w knee bends on one leg, keeping everything straight.

Of course, it might just be soft-tissue ache, so give it a couple of days before drawing conclusions.

[Ian H]

Patellar tracking syndrome?

Thassit.

[border-rider]

1) Is this normal?

It can happen after a lay-off or when upping the miles.  But normal - no.

2) Can I expect more of the same if I don't gear down?

as t'others said, it's more likely an imbalance/overuse/bike setup issue than gear size

3) Am I doing long term damage to myself?

Doubt it. 

4) Will it get better?

Yes

5) Should I gear down to 47x19T (66.2") for the BCM600?

Not if you're not as happy with a lower gear. 

The BCM isn't a low gear ride - there's lots of bits when you need to get the miles tucked away, especially on the way up to Dolgellau, and not many bits where you'd benefit from a slug gear.  Llancloudy/Welsh Newton is about the only one - and that's short, even though it doesn't feel that way at 580 k

Lowest I've used on the BCM is 67 but I'm a small gears merchant.  I did it on 70 last time.  I've been as low as 59 for some other "proper hilly"  rides.

[Frenchie]

I feel for you.

Was this your fisrt ride after a long break? 70'' doesn't see too high (but I draw the line at 200km)...

Get better soon.

[Andydauddwr]

5) Should I gear down to 47x19T (66.2") for the BCM600?

Are you not tandemming anymore?

AC

[Charlotte]

Patellar tracking syndrome?  Not fun.  My cure was a balanced programme of leg weights.

C, are you sure it's not just a bit of soft-tissue grumbling from overuse?

Very possibly.  Liz says she gets this regularly after long rides - maybe I've been lucky up until now.

I had the patellar tracking thing as well & it was v unpleasant.  (and briefly led to a period of barely being able to walk at all, then several months of total slowness on the bike.)

C - can you get a referral to a physio? 

If needs be, yes.  I think I can get it under Bupa as well.  Mind you, I'm not sure that this warrants it as yet.  I mean - most physios would say "300k on a fixed gear?  WTF do you expect, woman?"

Was this your fisrt ride after a long break? 70'' doesn't see too high (but I draw the line at 200km)...

No, it wasn't.  I've been riding lengthy ones for a couple of months this year already.  The Invicta was a bit hillier than usual, though...

5) Should I gear down to 47x19T (66.2") for the BCM600?

Are you not tandemming anymore?

AC

Probably not on the BCM.  We've got our own nemesisisisisis demons to deal with on that ride.

[teethgrinder]

I agree with the others.
I have had some knee pains, but never anything too bad or lasting for more than a few days, except twice about 15 years ago, which has never returned.
Is there any swelling? and if so, is it a lot? I'd see a doctor or physio if there is a lot of swelling, but wouldn't bother if it's only a bit swollen.
I am on my feet all day at work, from 0830 to 1700, with only 45 mins spent sitting down at the most, which is probably my saving grace from knee trouble.
Knee pains are very rare for me. I get some discomfort sometimes, but it always coincides with having sore legs after a hard ride and always goes away.
I think that 70" is right for you on the Bryan Chapman. Same as MV says. You will struggle up some hills, so just go as easy as you can and you should regain some time on the fast sections. Better to walk a hill or two and lose a few minutes and be in good condition to be able to gain more time on the fast roads, than to tire yourself out climbing a hill and being exhausted on the fast sections and unable to make any time up. It's all about preservation.

[Fixedwheelnut]

 Hello Miss C 

 I usually ride 67.something 48 x 18, from what I have heard from Barry alot of riders struggled with a headwind.
 If there is one thing that makes my knees ache it's a long ride into the wind, hills you get some respite down the other side but wind is relentless and the constant pressure is what I feel does it.
 That and leg braking, I don't do it.

 Ibuprofen and plenty of leg stretching, especially the front thigh stretch and Illotibial band deep massage [that fekkin hurts though] over developement of some thigh muscles cause the knee cap to pull out of alignment the above helps alleviate it.

[woollypigs]

I have just changed my cleats last Tuesday and haven't cycled much, by Thursday/Friday I could feel my knee going. Did you just change your shoe/cleats/pedals from what you used to ride ?

[Wowbagger]

I'll butt in with a lot of ignorance.

These knee problems: are they restricted to fixie types or can normal humans suffer as well?

Is the current state of my knees more likely to be attributed to

a) my weight

b) my arthritis

c) my 105 miles yesterday

d) a combination of the three?

[Chris S]

e) You climb more aggressively than you used to.

 

[Ian H]

I'll butt in with a lot of ignorance.

These knee problems: are they restricted to fixie types or can normal humans suffer as well?

Is the current state of my knees more likely to be attributed to

a) my weight

b) my arthritis

c) my 105 miles yesterday

d) a combination of the three?

Various parts of me, including the knees, will twinge if I do something more than usual. So a hilly ride early in the year, or a first fixed 600 for several years in November. Once I get a routine going...hmmm...actually I just learn to live with the twinges.

[Julian]

I'll butt in with a lot of ignorance.

These knee problems: are they restricted to fixie types or can normal humans suffer as well?

Is the current state of my knees more likely to be attributed to

a) my weight

b) my arthritis

c) my 105 miles yesterday

d) a combination of the three?

No, I had quite bad knee pains after some rides last year, without riding fixed.  This was due to

1.  170mm cranks
2.  Upping the exercise from 0 to lots a bit too quickly
3.  Getting SMIDSYd in March and landing on my knee

I've now got 160mm cranks on my audax bike, and although my left knee (the SMIDSY one) ached after the 300, it didn't hurt like it did before - and nothing like the horrendous pain I was in on last September's 600.  I'm hoping that it will gradually ease off as I get used to the 160 cranks.

[rogerzilla]

Do the knee raises to get your VMO muscles working; they've probably gone to sleep over the winter.

Make sure your cranks aren't too long (I ride 165mm on everything and never suffer knee problems).

Get out of the saddle more on climbs.

HTH.

[Blah]

C - can you get a referral to a physio? 

If needs be, yes.  I think I can get it under Bupa as well.  Mind you, I'm not sure that this warrants it as yet.  I mean - most physios would say "300k on a fixed gear?  WTF do you expect, woman?"

And the answer to that would be: Thanks for your time, I'll go and find a physio that knows what they're talking about.

I detest physios who's answer to problems like that is to just lay off whatever you're doing for a while. It is not a solution, and it is not an option.

[Hot Flatus]

I get this on occasions.  I find stretching my hamstrings (which tighten up madly after riding fixed) alongside ITB strtches and VMO exercises helps.

[teethgrinder]

[No, I had quite bad knee pains after some rides last year, without riding fixed.  This was due to

1.  170mm cranks
2.  Upping the exercise from 0 to lots a bit too quickly
3.  Getting SMIDSYd in March and landing on my knee

I've now got 160mm cranks on my audax bike, and although my left knee (the SMIDSY one) ached after the 300, it didn't hurt like it did before - and nothing like the horrendous pain I was in on last September's 600.  I'm hoping that it will gradually ease off as I get used to the 160 cranks.

I had my worst knee trouble when I was riding gears, so am not convinced it's entirely a fixed wheel problem. Allthough I think that pushing big gears up hills on fixed would develop your muscles more than gear riding does, which would cause the patella problem.

I was surprised when I found out that you were using 170 cranks Liz. I couldn't believe that a bike which was so obviously buolt for someone who is vertically challenged would have 170s fitted.
I use 170s. i used 175s once and could definitely tell the difference.
I am curious about why you use 160s. Was that a guess or was it calculated by your leg measurements?
I think that your swimming may be helping with your knees too, as it would build up your muscles which are not being used when you are cycling and keeping your knees in the correct position by keeping your muscle tone in balance.
Having your knees aching after a 300 isn't really surprising, especially at this time of year when the weather isn't so warm. You are also re building up your distances again, Stregth and fitnes goes very quickly in the winter. I cut my cycling right down in November and have been building it up again since January. I still have some way to go before I am up to speed again. I'll have many more Mondays with stiff legs and aching knees before that happens.

[Maladict]

Wotsited to all the comments about stretches.  One thing to note when the knee is sore is that bending the knee puts a lot more strain on the kneecap than keeping it straight.  So when doing exercises to strengthen things, if the knee is still sore, do ones that don't require bending the knee.  They will be much safer.

Leg raises - good for waking up the VMO.

Stretches - ITB, hamstrings, quads and calf stretches all worth doing for this.

Quad strengthening.  Knee pain is associated with weak quads (it's probably a two way thing).  A simple way to strengthen the quads, fold a pillow in half, ie on your back with the leg out in front on the floor/bed, put the pillow under the back of the knee, and then 30x over try to straighten your leg to squash the pillow (about 3-5s per time).  Doesn't need much in the way of equipment!

Do these things at least 3 times a week.

[border-rider]

I had my worst knee trouble when I was riding gears

And me

[Fixedwheelnut]

I had my worst knee trouble when I was riding gears

And me

 And me I'm Spartacus