Now that the groups have been drawn, what do you think?
I stuck a fiver on England. Probably foolish - stranger things probably haven't happened - but you never know......
Assuming you got 16/1 odds or thereabouts that feels about right. Not impossible just unlikely (especially when Spain, Brazil and Germany are 4/1 or 5/1. Think I'd rather have my money there).16/1 seems a bit stingy, just based on gut feel; consider those 3 are in the small group of favourites - one of about 4-5 teams who are almost certain to win, so sure, 4/1 or 5/1 "feels" about right ...
but England to win as a "1 in 16" chance - well. I know humans are crap at estimating chance, but it seems a helluva lot less likely than that!
but England to win as a "1 in 16" chance - well. I know humans are crap at estimating chance, but it seems a helluva lot less likely than that!
I think the thing I saw on the internet the other day had it pretty much spot on:
"England are 16/1 to win the World Cup. For those who don't understand betting, that means if you put a bet of £10 on England, you will lose £10."
Assuming you got 16/1 odds or thereabouts that feels about right. Not impossible just unlikely (especially when Spain, Brazil and Germany are 4/1 or 5/1. Think I'd rather have my money there).16/1 seems a bit stingy, just based on gut feel; consider those 3 are in the small group of favourites - one of about 4-5 teams who are almost certain to win, so sure, 4/1 or 5/1 "feels" about right ...
but England to win as a "1 in 16" chance - well. I know humans are crap at estimating chance, but it seems a helluva lot less likely than that!
During the last WC someone observed that it was really useful to have little flags on cars to indicate morons. It's happening this time too; isn't that nice!
Good point. 1 in 17 seems bang-on - 1 in 16 was just absurdly optimistic!
During the last WC someone observed that it was really useful to have little flags on cars to indicate morons. It's happening this time too; isn't that nice!
You get those in France too? I assumed they were a peculiarly English phenomenon (NB yes, I do mean English, not British).
And Spain have a new manager as of today.
God, this is a dirty Aussie side. The ref. needs to sort it out because the game is being stifled.
Rooney is an exemplar of the diet and training that made BRITISH sportsmen the best in the world: fish and chips, cigarettes and whisky, a jog round the park on Sunday morning and some raucous bellowing.
With Argentina and Brazil drawing against 'lesser' teams I wonder how long it will be before a more 'emerging' team will win the whole thing or is it always destined to be european/south american affair.
Maybe Nigeria.
Sweden vs Korea is a bit lively! No idea how it is still 0-0. Nor how there are still 22 players on the pitch...
ETA: moments after posting, it is no longer 0-0.
One of the African teams will win it eventually.
Interesting discussion by the panel about the VAR decision in that game.
I thought Nigeria were very entertaining to watch, albeit disorganised and ineffective.Maybe Nigeria.
Not this time, if their performance in their opening game is anything to go by.
I thought Nigeria were very entertaining to watch, albeit disorganised and ineffective.
Interesting discussion by the panel about the VAR decision in that game.
I had it on in the background with the sound off so missed that. What was the verdict? I thought it was a borderline decision but correct. It looked like the kind of decision that wouldn't have been given without VAR to help.
'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go,
'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go,
'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go,
'ere we go, 'ere we go!
<repeat ad nauseam until tolchocked around the gulliver by a Russian>
It would have been hard not to give a penalty for that - it was practically a rugby tackle.There was the very same sort of tackle on Harry Kane from an attacking corner in the game
It would have been hard not to give a penalty for that - it was practically a rugby tackle.There was the very same sort of tackle on Harry Kane from an attacking corner in the game
against Tunisia. Ref didn't see it.
I agree with the last sentence, though I doubt if your loyalties woulod allow you to substitute Loftus-Cheek for Lingard.
Raheem Sterling couldn't hit a Cow's arse with a banjo (Yes, he'll now prove me wrong).
It would have been hard not to give a penalty for that - it was practically a rugby tackle.Those sorts of player 'interaction' outside of the penalty area would result in a foul and yellow
(I'll give the 1996 Euo's team a pass on that as they were good as well).As were the subsequent 98 team under Hoddle who lost to Argentina on penalties - nicely balanced team that and a terrific game [Southgate was playing in that team of course]. For better of for worse, system wise, Southgate's very much picking up where Hoddle left off.
The second half was tough going for England, and frustrating to watch. Better sides than them would have struggled against that well organised and rather crafty Tunisian defence. But they made enough chances that one of them was going to go in eventually, and ultimately they deserved to win.
Has anyone else noticed that just as a player is about to take a corner, almost without fail the referees seem to take great delight in stopping them, then giving a lecture to a couple of players about them holding or pushing each other? Then as soon as the corner is on it's way they completely ignore the same two players doing the same thing to each other they just wasted time telling off. Do those two players suddenly become invisible to the ref when the corner is taken?I totally agree.
As for organising things at free kicks near the penalty area, I sometimes think the refs waste more time than players and should show themselves a yellow card occasionally to speed themselves up!
Typical England fans - can't even enjoy it when they win.
England traditionally don't make it very easy to enjoy tournament games. Not since Euro 96 that I can remember.
I was at that game. As the final whistle went word sped round the entire stadium that the Cloggies had qualified as well as a result of the Scotland v Switzerland result. I don't think there are many times in one's life when you could be surrounded by 100,000 barmily happy people.England traditionally don't make it very easy to enjoy tournament games. Not since Euro 96 that I can remember.
Ah, 1996.... I watched the England-Netherlands game in the pub after work. On my way to the station for the train home, I was accosted by two chaps who thought I looked a bit Dutch. I only escaped a kicking because I convinced them I was English. You'd have thought the result and England's brilliant performance in that match would have put them in a good mood. Apparently not.
Bit of a clanger by the goalkeeper... :o ;D
VAR got it WRONG again...that was NEVER a penalty in the Denmark V Australia game.
As was the decision to keep Croatias' Rebic on the pitch yesterday.
As was the decision to keep Croatias' Rebic on the pitch yesterday.
There were several fruity challenges from both sides that went unpunished. I'm not even sure that Rebic's was the worst.
Sir Alex Ferguson once commented that Messi was the greatest player, for Barcelona, but Cristiano Ronaldo was a great player... in any team.
I don't understand why people think the principle of VAR is wrong. If a ref makes the right decision 90% of the time, then why not review the controversial ones? If they review 20% of them and get the same ratio, then that means there are now 2 wrong decisions instead of 10.
quality pundits
As that Guardian article shows, what's happened is that it has increased the arguments about certain decisions (the Poulsen handball was the most extreme case so far). If quality pundits (not Lawro et al but actual people who understand the modern game) and ex-referees can't agree about a decision having all viewed the same footage then there's no hope for it. It just shows that the application of the rules relies upon too much interpretation and is too subjective. VAR is only going to amplify this.If it's the case that 2 qualified people, given the same data come up with 2 different answers, then the rules are insufficiently clear.
Salah is another who relies on being part of a strong team. He's been entirely anonymous in both of Egypt's games so far - partly down to not being fully fit, I guess, but he doesn't have anyone of the calibre of Firmino to play off in that Egypt team.
I don't think it's fair to blame Salah for being anonymous in the first of Egypt's games.
I think he was playing with the Egypt team in that one, too! ;)I don't think it's fair to blame Salah for being anonymous in the first of Egypt's games.
You might have a point there.
Not that he made an awful lot more impact in their second game though.
Switzerland v Serbia; yet another incident, in this case two defenders wrestling a striker
to the ground from a dead-ball kick. Why are the refs scared of giving penalties for these fouls? ::-)
Switzerland v Serbia; yet another incident, in this case two defenders wrestling a striker
to the ground from a dead-ball kick. Why are the refs scared of giving penalties for these fouls? ::-)
That was one of the most comical things I’ve ever seen on a football pitch. How it wasn’t a penalty is beyond my ken.
That was one of the most comical things I’ve ever seen on a football pitch. How it wasn’t a penalty is beyond my ken.
That was one of the most comical things I’ve ever seen on a football pitch. How it wasn’t a penalty is beyond my ken.
Just scrap VAR now. There's simply no point in saying you have it if you don't use it to spot that.
Fucking ridiculous!! That would constitute assault on any British street.
It's illegal in Rugby ferchristssake!
Yesterdays wrestling should have been spotted though.
I think we know that Germany will somehow turn this around and end up winning the World Cup, just like we all know that England will somehow find a way of turning an easy group into a nail-biting final 5 minutes of their final group game.
“This is a seismic result,” says itv commentator. With 11 minutes plus injury time to go. Don’t you know who’s playing?
At last, a Referee puts a stop to the farcical wrestling
At last, a Referee puts a stop to the farcical wrestling.
Panama are a bunch of cynical, dirty, whining, bastards. I hope it ends up 10 and they can eff-off back home.
We’ve been poor this half.
We’ve been poor this half.
To be fair, they don't have a lot of experience of how to go about defending 5-0 leads. ;D
30dg heat, 5-0 up - why run yourself into the ground when you've qualified? Second half was always going to be more pedestrian.
Lingard's goal was brilliant.
We can score goals, no doubt - can can also concede too, no doubt. It could make the knockout games very entertaining :-)
Raheem Sterling. Answers on a postcard please because I have no idea.. I've never rated him and he's never proved me wrong. He couldn't hit a Cow's arse with a banjo. Swap him for Rashford ASAP.I think a lot of people would like to see that happen, but I have a feeling Southgate will retain him, leaving Rashford in reserve. Southgate will also be aware that Stirling played some nice one-touch stuff to set up Lingard for his goal. I'm sure Rashford will get his chance. We'll see.
Yes true - but then Tunisia scored twice against Belgium. And plenty of other fancied teams have already conceded to minnows; a leaky defence isn't a complete road-block to progress. [Not that I expect much of England, I should stress!]
All you can do is beat what's in front of you but (a poor) Panama had 4 or 5 very good chances to score, chances that you'd expect the top 10 teams to score.
The Belgium game may be a good indicator of how good our defence actually is. I have Belgium as my sneaky outside choice to win it. If we look good against Belgium then we can look good against anyone.I think Brazil are the most likely at that stage. Last time I looked they were strugling at 0-0 to Costa Rica.
The good news is that we'll play from - Group H (Poland, Sengal, Japan and Colombia) in the knockout. That's the best group, to have as opponents, by far. After that it's impossible to predict but chances are you'll get a real contender.
Fair point, well made.We’ve been poor this half.
To be fair, they don't have a lot of experience of how to go about defending 5-0 leads. ;D
I have Belgium as my sneaky outside choice to win it.
We’ve been poor this half.
To be fair, they don't have a lot of experience of how to go about defending 5-0 leads. ;D
30dg heat, 5-0 up - why run yourself into the ground when you've qualified? Second half was always going to be more pedestrian.
Lingard's goal was brilliant.
We can score goals, no doubt - can can also concede too, no doubt. It could make the knockout games very entertaining :-)
Well, the knockout matches may well require 120 mins of play in the heat...
What I mean is that instead of taking the foot off the gas, there was an opportunity to experiment (and certainly to defend better).Bit late to start experimenting to any great extent now.
Hmmm. Is that the same as Poland looked bad?
I'm very disappointed by the commentators and the pundits - or maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
Has no-one pointed out that Panama has been swept away by a Harrykane?
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(5) Lose the final on penalties to Germany
I got back from yesterday's ride to glum faces. It was about 66 minutes in and Poland were only 1-0 down but Mrs Cudzo couldn't bear to watch any more; not from wounded patriotic pride but because she doesn't find such bad football at all entertaining. I saw Colombia's next two goals, I thought the second was rather good but... did Poland have anyone actually playing in defence? Going forward, Poland were a bit reminiscent of the England at their worst – passing minimal and sloppy, trying to get through by fancy footwork alone – but worse.Hmmm. Is that the same as Poland looked bad?
Ach, I meant Valderrama and Higuita's haircuts ;)
Raheem Sterling. Answers on a postcard please because I have no idea.. I've never rated him and he's never proved me wrong. He couldn't hit a Cow's arse with a banjo. Swap him for Rashford ASAP.
Don't side-foot penalties low, as there is a greater chance for goalkeepers to save them if they guess the correct way.
England have also obviously been doing work on set-pieces. [Hopefully work on penalties too!]
Harry Kane's hair is not dissimilar to that of a 1966 Jack Charlton - reckon it's an omen.
He should ditch the beard that he's been trying to grow all year.Harry Kane's hair is not dissimilar to that of a 1966 Jack Charlton - reckon it's an omen.
I was saying something similar to Mrs Pcolbeck on Sunday. Kane's whole look is somehow very late 50s early 60s.
Raheem Sterling. Answers on a postcard please because I have no idea.. I've never rated him and he's never proved me wrong. He couldn't hit a Cow's arse with a banjo. Swap him for Rashford ASAP.
I remember getting a verbal kicking in here for saying simikar things about Heskey. Especially his international scoring record compared with Uruguay's goalkeeper.
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Belgium have got to be favourites to win our group but it’ll be a close one. And could potentially be a great game.
Uruguay - tidy outfit. Won all three games. Organized with fire power - could cause problems for either Spain or Portugal.
Uruguay - tidy outfit. Won all three games. Organized with fire power - could cause problems for either Spain or Portugal.
I don't think they are in that league but they are awkward, and Suarez will stop at literally nothing to make sure the odds are swung in their favour. He's a nasty cheating c*** at heart and I predict he'll revert to type if they go a goal down.
Without Suarez Uruguay are a bit toothless, said Mr Larrington, recycling an old joak.
Oh no, it's happened, I've fallen into the emotional trap of placing some hope in England's future performance...But surely that's what hope is about??
Oh no, it's happened, I've fallen into the emotional trap of placing some hope in England's future performance...But surely that's what hope is about??
Sure, you can expect (or be prepared for) the worst ... but if you're not hoping for something, then there's no joy in the outcome (good or bad).
The purely cynical life is IMHO a joyless one O:-)
I haven't seen a single moan about commentators yet. Someone has to ...Well it won't be me don't think. People's reaction can be very much marmite when it comes to commentators, but I'm quite fortunate in this regard as I tend not to have a bad reaction to anybody in the box really.
[ It goes without sayi.g that Jonathan wotshisface should be confined to Robot Wars. Still a twat ::-) ]ummmm....sounds stressful... this kind of reaction must make it quite difficult for you to watch a game when Jonathan Pearce [is the name you were looking for] is commentating Matt! :)
Maybe my brain's tired ,but was there a point in tonight's matches where Portugal could have pushed Spain out by conceding a goal to Iran?
Who are the blithering idiots commentating?
We are clearly having a positive WC2018 experience on YACF - I haven't seen a single moan about commentators yet. Someone has to ...
My nomination for irritating phrase-of-the-tournament:
" in his locker".
( Lee Dixon being the chief offender )
[ It goes without saying that Jonathan wotshisface should be confined to Robot Wars. Still a twat ::-) ]
Cheers for that, Garry. Of course, with Uruguay so much stiffer a challenge than Russia in the round of 16, (even if the disciplinary record had been the othr way round) it wouldn't have been worthwhile for the Portuguese to give up their position at the top of the group to stymie the Spanish... Not to mention it would have caused as much of an uproar as the Disgrace of Gijón (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n)!Maybe my brain's tired ,but was there a point in tonight's matches where Portugal could have pushed Spain out by conceding a goal to Iran?
Yes and no.
Yes but not quite - if Morrocco had beaten Spain - which they nearly did and Iran had beaten Portugal. Iran would have gone through on 6 points with Spain and Portugal both on 4 but I think Spain would have edged it with a better discipliniary record.
No, what nearly happened was Portugal came close to being knocked out by a late goal from Iran....this only after a farcical VAR decision awarded Iran a penalty to get back on level terms at 1-1.
Goodness knows what the reaction would have been had Iran scored that goal. And it would not have been pretty. It probably would have made headline news!!
We are clearly having a positive WC2018 experience on YACF - I haven't seen a single moan about commentators yet. Someone has to ...
Without Suarez Uruguay are a bit toothless, said Mr Larrington, recycling an old joak.To paraphrase Tolkien, “We are the biting Uruguay!”
it looked rather boring; reckon both teams were playing with the awareness that a draw suited them so no point provoking the opposition! A drawback of the group format that was supposed to have been fixed by playing both final games simultaneously.You'll never "fix" that problem - but the current format makes it much less common.
AIUI the simultaneous last game idea was introduced after Germany and Austria, IIRC, played out a spiritless nil-nil draw realizing they would both get through whereas if Germany won, Algeria would go through in second place. Might have been sort of 1978-ish. Might have been Switzerland rather than Austria. Or someone else. Point is, the current system doesn't stop that kind of "convenient un-match". It might be impossible to prevent in a group system, I'm not going to sit down and do the probabilities! Could always go to a fully knockout format... but that's probably for another thread, another time!it looked rather boring; reckon both teams were playing with the awareness that a draw suited them so no point provoking the opposition! A drawback of the group format that was supposed to have been fixed by playing both final games simultaneously.You'll never "fix" that problem - but the current format makes it much less common.
AIUI the simultaneous last game idea was introduced after Germany and Austria, IIRC, played out a spiritless nil-nil draw realizing they would both get through whereas if Germany won, Algeria would go through in second place. Might have been sort of 1978-ish. Might have been Switzerland rather than Austria. Or someone else. Point is, the current system doesn't stop that kind of "convenient un-match". It might be impossible to prevent in a group system, I'm not going to sit down and do the probabilities! Could always go to a fully knockout format... but that's probably for another thread, another time!it looked rather boring; reckon both teams were playing with the awareness that a draw suited them so no point provoking the opposition! A drawback of the group format that was supposed to have been fixed by playing both final games simultaneously.You'll never "fix" that problem - but the current format makes it much less common.
Most unimpressed with Maradonna's performance from the balcony. Hard to believe he was once a world class athlete.
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And Messi's ball control...genius.
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Could always go to a fully knockout format... but that's probably for another thread, another time!
And the fans....have the folk from Central/South America get special deals on flights from Putin or something? they sure are there on mass. Good to see Peru get a couple of goals yesterday. You'd have thought they'd won it from how celebratory they were. Would have been nice to see a few more outsiders in the last 16.
...
And Messi's ball control...genius.
...
Good wasn't it https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44624069
Most unimpressed with Maradonna's performance from the balcony. Hard to believe he was once a world class athlete.
Germany had better get a move on...
clueless in front of goal.
Oh my word! I had not seen that before.Most unimpressed with Maradonna's performance from the balcony. Hard to believe he was once a world class athlete.
https://youtu.be/CIygalhVZ00
G v SK :o :o
I wonder if Shearer will continue his pathetic whining about VAR (in spite of it obviously working well in almost every case and maybe determining the correct outcome of this game ::-) )
I wonder if Shearer will continue his pathetic whining about VAR (in spite of it obviously working well in almost every case and maybe determining the correct outcome of this game ::-) )
To be fair to Shearer, there have some dreadful VAR decisions, but it's not the technology, it's how its being implemented that's caused the controversy.
The Iranian penalty against Portugal being a classic case. Ref was right to begin with and VAR should never have complicated things. How they made to ref review that decision was just crazy - he was then under pressure to change his mind.
With the decision today, VAR is able to show a factual error - errors that are difficult to see first time round by officials due to bodies obscuring a good perspective.
it's not the technology, it's how its being implementedThis, for me. Woeful.
Anyway, I'm just bored of Shearer's tedious moaning :-DShearer got it right the other day when he had a go Linekar (who was making light of head injuries (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=alan+shearer+head+injury+campaign&oq=alan+shearer+head+injury+campaign&aqs=chrome..69i57.29971j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)).
Anyway, I'm just bored of Shearer's tedious moaning :-DShearer got it right the other day when he had a go Linekar (who was making light of head injuries (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=alan+shearer+head+injury+campaign&oq=alan+shearer+head+injury+campaign&aqs=chrome..69i57.29971j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)).
Don't mention the VAR.
(Not my gag...)
With Brazil looking likely to top Group E, a tactical loss tomorrow night would probably suit England very nicely. The bottom half of the draw is looking a lot more open than the top...I think the Belgium manager would agree with you Legs :)
Did I really hear the commentator refer to Mexico as “the South American country”?
... the genius of Messi, who I suspect is a proper sportsman (something Diego never managed).That's probably a good assessment.
Interesting. I had wondered if they were going to handle the move to 48 teams by using larger groups or maybe some of 4 and some of say 6 (no, I haven't done the maths) with 2 going forward from the larger groups, as has been used for some tournaments in the past. Sounds as if it's going to be quite different from what we have now.Could always go to a fully knockout format... but that's probably for another thread, another time!
2026 will all but be fully knockout.
48 teams in 16 groups of 3. Only two group games for each team and then the top two in each group go through to a knockout round of 32, etc.
The finalists will still only play 7 games during the competition (no change there as the 3rd group game just becomes the knockout round of 32).
I'd expect each group will be formed of a top 16 seed (or 13 seeds and 3 host nations), a mid tier (17-32 rank) team and a lower tier (33-48) team. The lower tier team would be expected to lose both which puts the two higher ranked teams through to the knockout competition. Any draws against the lower tier team will really put the cat amongst the pigeons (or goats in the vegetable patches) which is why it'll be treated by most teams as a pure knockout tournament.
Given the general standard of commentary in this world cup, would it surprise you if you did?I've been listening to the afternoon matches on R5L and Chris Sutton's commentary yesterday (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b7dm06) (#KORGER) was hilarious. It seemed that, halfway through every sentence, he'd remember how exciting the match was, and suddenly start yelling!
Great result for the neutrals.
I still don't get it when footballers cry after they have lost a match (e.g. one or two of the GermanWhy do fans cry? It won't change their circumstances one bit if the team they follow wins or loses. It's because it matters to them.
players after their defeat to South Korea). I mean, they lost; they go home. It's not as if it's going
to have a huge detremental affect to their way of life. They are all extremely well paid for doing
something the like. Yeah, yeah, yeah; I know it's sport and a world cup, and some of them may
never play in one again. Get over it guys.
If I were to drop a bollox in my working environment, at worst it would be in my annual appraisal
(possibly missing out on a measly bounus), but it certainly wouldn't bring me to tears.
Sing to the tune of a certain Lightning Seeds ditty-
They're going home, they're going home, they're going- Deutchlands going home!
Repeat as often as you feel appropriate.
:thumbsup:
With Brazil looking likely to top Group E, a tactical loss tomorrow night would probably suit England very nicely. The bottom half of the draw is looking a lot more open than the top...I think the Belgium manager would agree with you Legs :)
Anyway, I'm just bored of Shearer's tedious moaning :-DShearer got it right the other day when he had a go Linekar (who was making light of head injuries (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=alan+shearer+head+injury+campaign&oq=alan+shearer+head+injury+campaign&aqs=chrome..69i57.29971j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)).
Even a stopped clock is right occasionally.
Or, as Shearer suggested, they should be allowed to have rolling subs for injuries. It would encourage players to seek treatment rather than feel they need to soldier on, as Mascherano did the other night.
I'm not buying all this tactical loss nonsense.
I'm not buying all this tactical loss nonsense.
Me neither. Especially when they have no idea yet who they'll face in the next round.
Japan and Senegal finish equal on points and with equal goal difference and goals scored. The game between them ended in a draw. Presumably the reason Japan go through is down to fewer yellow cards?
Japan and Senegal finish equal on points and with equal goal difference and goals scored. The game between them ended in a draw. Presumably the reason Japan go through is down to fewer yellow cards?
I'm not buying all this tactical loss nonsense.
Me neither. Especially when they have no idea yet who they'll face in the next round.
I'm not buying all this tactical loss nonsense.
Professional sportsmen and women have it built into them from an early age to want to win every time they take to the field.
If you told a racing driver to back off whilst on form he is likely to do something stupid.
The aim is to win the world cup. To do so you have to win against good teams, or they wouldn't be best in the world. The aim is not to get as far as possible and say well done chaps when they get off the plane.
If we lose (and I hope we don't) to Brazil or any other top team in the quarter final or the final it makes no difference, we didn't win the world cup.
So did Belgium win because they were less tactical* or because they're better?
...Yup, that seems to solve most of the issues :thumbsup:
The fairest thing would be a draw for the two places in the first knockout round rather than relying on group position (i.e. a draw decides whether England or Belgium go through as G1 or G2 or vice versa regardless of who finishes top or second). These draws would be conducted straight after the final group game of each group so there's no real difference for fans trying to book travel (since they wouldn't know which half of the draw they are in until this point anyway). But it takes away any tactical nonsense because there's no way to know who you'd end up playing until after your group games had been completed.
(A team knowing that is is guaranteed to qualify top of the group after just two games is very rare, they have to win both of their games and both other games have to be draws so that no other team can catch them with the one remaining game. Doesn't happen that often.)
I haven't seen anything consistant from other teams to really frighten me at the moment. No one has had a blinding performance against similarly performing opposition. The rest of the tournament is a lottery for all. I don't know who is playing who next beyond our and Belgiums opponents but, The best rated team in the world, at this competition could end up playing the lowest ranked team left who decide today is the day we shine.
Alternatively, draw each group-winner against a runner-up at random, after the group stage, in order to keep the perceived strongest teams apart.yes, that's the simplest way; but that gives fans less time to arrange tickets/travel. hence GBank's plan, which looks a little convoluted at first reading.
yes, that's the simplest way; but that gives fans less time to arrange tickets/travel
Here you go - cards on table time, my prediction for who will be playing in each round for the rest of the tournament (I'm giving England the benefit of the doubt against Colombia and Mexico, but not against Spain):
16
France-Nigeria
Russia-Portugal
Spain-Uruguay
Croatia-Australia
Brazil-Germany
Belgium-Japan
Mexico-Switzerland
Colombia-England
Though the Ingerlund vs. Belgium match produced one of the best World Cup moments evah :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06zvENbvAa4
Ronaldo, Messi, the Germans going home. Oh dear what a shame.Who's missing? Spain, Brazil, Uraguay.
It's almost a shame one of them had to win.
Cheating git. That’s a situation where football should learn from rugby.
Cheating git. That’s a situation where football should learn from rugby.
Oh I dunno.
Maybe Rugby could learn from football to integrate a few more cheating gits to make the game a bit more interesting :)
Swedes vs Turnips in the next round?
It's almost a shame one of them had to win.
This, to me, sums up the vast majority of televised football.
Even with the cheating gits, that was a very tedious display.
One hopes for better. The France-Argentina match was very good. This evening’s match was defined by a piece of cheating which prevented a certain goal - all the player had to do was roll the ball into an empty net. The Danish defender’s foul gave the excellent Danish goalkeeper a second chance to stop a player who had already gone past him. That is very distasteful and allows cheats to benefit. Rugby has, to that degree at least, prevented cheats from benefitting by giving the referee the discretion to award a penalty try. Football would be improved by the introduction of a similar rule.It's almost a shame one of them had to win.
This, to me, sums up the vast majority of televised football.Even with the cheating gits, that was a very tedious display.
It's always a risk watching any televised sport - sometimes it's exciting, sometimes very tedious. You obviously thought it worth giving up valuable time of your life to watch or else you wouldn't have stayed the course. If there's never any interest or enjoyment in watching televised football then surely it's preferable to not bother watching it in the first place.
Methinks the puns need accompanying by a sad tuber noise.Made by a brassica instrument?
This evening’s match was defined by a piece of cheating which prevented a certain goal - all the player had to do was roll the ball into an empty net. The Danish defender’s foul gave the excellent Danish goalkeeper a second chance to stop a player who had already gone past him. That is very distasteful and allows cheats to benefit. Rugby has, to that degree at least, prevented cheats from benefitting by giving the referee the discretion to award a penalty try. Football would be improved by the introduction of a similar rule.
Cabbages and lemons?Methinks the puns need accompanying by a sad tuber noise.Made by a brassica instrument?
It's being reported Senegal have lodged an official appeal to FIFA to change the Fair Play system. Too late for them of course, but it doesn't seem to have worked in quite the way intended.Japan and Senegal finish equal on points and with equal goal difference and goals scored. The game between them ended in a draw. Presumably the reason Japan go through is down to fewer yellow cards?
Yes...shame for Senegal,
Japan and Poland indulged in a period the 'Disgrace of Gijon' during the final 20mins of their game. That was also a shame. And an even greater shame Senegal couldn't score because they would have sent Japan packing.
Ronaldo going home. Oh dear what a shame.this should work (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/44071127/page/3?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5b39d19c84181e068d1b8b64%26On%20yer%20bike%262018-07-02T07%3A17%3A48%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:bde6955a-3a27-4899-9f8f-c2e16816c918&pinned_post_asset_id=5b39d19c84181e068d1b8b64&pinned_post_type=share)
I didn't see this incident [Garry I think your link is now out of date?]This evening’s match was defined by a piece of cheating which prevented a certain goal - all the player had to do was roll the ball into an empty net. The Danish defender’s foul gave the excellent Danish goalkeeper a second chance to stop a player who had already gone past him. That is very distasteful and allows cheats to benefit. Rugby has, to that degree at least, prevented cheats from benefitting by giving the referee the discretion to award a penalty try. Football would be improved by the introduction of a similar rule.
While it may be distasteful [although I personally wouldn't even go that far], it's not cheating. Cheating is different. Surely a cheat attempts to influence the outcome of a game outside of boundaries of the rules? Everything that happened during that incident was clear to see and within the rules of the game. If you watch it again, the Danish defender clearly brings the Croatian player down, but he's also not that far from the ball, and does do his best to reach the ball, even though he's never going to make a clean tackle. He was well within his rights to make an attempt. And in the heat of the moment, when you're a defender, that's what you do. The ball is also far enough away from the goal to have been deflected sideways, had the defender been successful. If you look again, the Croatian guy hadn't quite got his footing right to slide the ball into the net, he was still controlling the ball. It's not a nasty, vicious, studs-up kind of tackle. That's why he only got a yellow and not a red [a recent rule change.... I think]. We'll never know, but I'd bet money that had he not tried to make the tackle he'd have got a talking to by both players and manager. He took one of the team, so to speak.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/44071127
[about a third of the way down]
I think I'm missing something here; what went wrong?It's being reported Senegal have lodged an official appeal to FIFA to change the Fair Play system. Too late for them of course, but it doesn't seem to have worked in quite the way intended.Japan and Senegal finish equal on points and with equal goal difference and goals scored. The game between them ended in a draw. Presumably the reason Japan go through is down to fewer yellow cards?
Yes...shame for Senegal,
Japan and Poland indulged in a period the 'Disgrace of Gijon' during the final 20mins of their game. That was also a shame. And an even greater shame Senegal couldn't score because they would have sent Japan packing.
I didn't see this incident [Garry I think your link is now out of date?]
OK, thanks for that - but how do "Fair Play rules" come into this? Isn't this the same as France-Denmark, and many other examples of tacit match-fixing?No, it was due to Fair Play rules that Japan knew they would go through rather than Senegal. Both teams had 4 pts and equal goal difference but Japan had 2 fewer yellow cards. Which seems like as good as any other arbitrary reason to let them through, once you have to use something other than actual match results, but Senegal's complaint is that it allowed Japan to go through by playing not in the spirit of fair play – not playing to win.
OK, thanks for that - but how do "Fair Play rules" come into this? Isn't this the same as France-Denmark, and many other examples of tacit match-fixing?
Typical. I switch channels for the last 20 minutes of JPN-BEL with Honourable Nipponese two goals up and the Sprouts go and stick three past them. Ah, BELGIUM, man!l
Typical. I switch channels for the last 20 minutes of JPN-BEL with Honourable Nipponese two goals up and the Sprouts go and stick three past them. Ah, BELGIUM, man!l
What on earth propelled you to switch channels man?
Typical. I switch channels for the last 20 minutes of JPN-BEL with Honourable Nipponese two goals up and the Sprouts go and stick three past them. Ah, BELGIUM, man!l
What on earth propelled you to switch channels man?
Man on news channel saying "Japan 2-0 up with 20 to go". I should have stuck to shouting abuse at Taury Kuenssberg.
I can remember the last time a team came from 2 - 0 down to 2 - 3 in the World Cup.
I can remember the last time a team came from 2 - 0 down to 2 - 3 in the World Cup.If you'd asked me I wouldn't have known the Eng vs Ger 1970 game was the last time this happened. But I do vividly recall watching that game. Peter Bonetti, pah !!
I can remember the last time a team came from 2 - 0 down to 2 - 3 in the World Cup.If you'd asked me I wouldn't have known the Eng vs Ger 1970 game was the last time this happened. But I do vividly recall watching that game. Peter Bonetti, pah !!
But I do vividly recall watching that game. Peter Bonetti, pah !!
Shouldn't have substitued Bobby Charlton. The West Germans feared him. As he was 32 years
But I do vividly recall watching that game. Peter Bonetti, pah !!
I can get back there in a flash. the crackling distant commentary, the very basic primary colours on the the TV [dad got a rental few days before-went back afterwards though!], the flickering images, the heat, the game, the goals, the chances, my father, us sitting round watching, the horrible feeling, the terrible disappointment, going to school the next day, the despair.....dear oh dear. 48 years ago.
I think I cried. It probably explains a lot of how I've ended up. Get over it for goodness sake :-)
Did anyone else see this Neymar fan the other night?Hadn't spotted him but there have been some impressive costumes among the fans of all teams.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1366&bih=593&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=qaw6W_TKBMX7UKrIj_gF&q=neymar+fan+noodles+taped+to+head&oq=neymar+fan+noodles+taped+to+head&gs_l=img.3...14872.18147.0.18553.14.14.0.0.0.0.282.919.13j0j1.14.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.zgrC2HRPgok#imgrc=m3_0Vkw4wADiEM:
A non confrontational method of stopping all the rolling around on the floor after a minor or non existent challenge.There are often no visible signs of injury. Bruises take ages to come up, as do joint injuries (and as for concussion...). Remember Neymar's antics in the last world cup, someone nudged him in the back and he rolled around a load and had to go off.
A compulsory 5 minute time out whilst you are checked over by an impartial doctor, followed by a red or yellow card for unsporting conduct where there are no visible signs of injury.
A non confrontational method of stopping all the rolling around on the floor after a minor or non existent challenge.
A compulsory 5 minute time out whilst you are checked over by an impartial doctor, followed by a red or yellow card for unsporting conduct where there are no visible signs of injury.
Please discuss
the opponent could just get a different player to kick him every 5 minutes, and you take a huge part of Brazil's threat away.
I can forgive Neymar's twattery2 wrongs don't make a right, but I'd say that was natural justice at work. 2xyellows would probably have been fair!
... <snip> ...
Mexico were also clearly targetting him - Layun treading on his ankle was shameful, even if Neymar's reaction was preposterous. If it were up to me, I'd have given them both yellow cards.
Interesting contrast with the other game where one of the Belgium players (Lukaku?) didn't go down in the box when he would have been justified to do so, and might have cost his side the match because of it. That was midway through the first half, and I suspect the game would have panned out very differently if Belgium had scored first.
After every life threatening injury I think every player should be made to run around the edge of the pitch twice to prove his fitness before being allowed back on to the pitch.
But were you rolling around on the ground simulating as if you had been half-pummelled to death?
I've been in agony because someone seemingly brushed past me but just managed to knock my kneecap in a certain way.
I can remember the last time a team came from 2 - 0 down to 2 - 3 in the World Cup.If you'd asked me I wouldn't have known the Eng vs Ger 1970 game was the last time this happened. But I do vividly recall watching that game. Peter Bonetti, pah !!
I'm not sure it was, but Wowbagger has a very cunning and refined way of getting into your psyche and really pissing you off when you weren't expecting it :-)
But were you rolling around on the ground simulating as if you had been half-pummelled to death?
But were you rolling around on the ground simulating as if you had been half-pummelled to death?
I've been in agony because someone seemingly brushed past me but just managed to knock my kneecap in a certain way.
Have you ever watched a 6 Nations Rugby football match? Just about the only time the players argue with the referee is when he’s sending them off because their arm is hanging off. ‘But it’s a mere flesh wound ref. Honest’ . If a player is down he’s usually unconscious. 😏But were you rolling around on the ground simulating as if you had been half-pummelled to death?
I've been in agony because someone seemingly brushed past me but just managed to knock my kneecap in a certain way.
Some times, it depends on what the injury is. Something like a dead leg or a stud to the top of the foot (someone leaving their foot in the way when you go to kick/clear the ball) can leave you writhing around on the floor.
My point was more that the severity of the injury, or amount of pain inflicted, has no direct correlation with the magnitude of the contact. Pain can also be long lasting or very short lived (such as the injuries that leave you rolling around for a short while but seemingly ok a few minutes later).
A tiny little rake down the back of the achilles is a classic example of something that is easily missed but bloody painful for a short while and is possible to 'run off' and be back playing as normal a few minutes later.
But I can't help feeling we might get annihilated by a proper team, like Uruguay.
Fy fan, Sverige spela fotboll liksom England c. 2006-2016 😴
Holy shit, Sweden play football as well as England c. 2006-2016 😴
Nu England spela fotboll liksom England for helvete.
Now England play football like England for hell.
Are you referring to how you would react to the above, everyone else?
Some times, it depends on what the injury is. Something like a dead leg or a stud to the top of the foot (someone leaving their foot in the way when you go to kick/clear the ball) can leave you writhing around on the floor.
My point was more that the severity of the injury, or amount of pain inflicted, has no direct correlation with the magnitude of the contact. Pain can also be long lasting or very short lived (such as the injuries that leave you rolling around for a short while but seemingly ok a few minutes later).
A tiny little rake down the back of the achilles is a classic example of something that is easily missed but bloody painful for a short while and is possible to 'run off' and be back playing as normal a few minutes later.
Just realised that, thanks to the exigiencies of the draw, England have reached the last 5!
Eng v Sweden head to head record: https://www.11v11.com/teams/england/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Sweden/
Was a bit sad for Colombia: that country has had such a hell of a time over the last 50+ years that winning the WC or even getting to the final would have been a tremendous lift for them. Penalty shoot-outs are a miserable way to end a match, too. Sudden-death would be better.but sudden death doesn't fit in with the television stations and that is after all who pays the players.
I’d like to see England at least polish off the Swedes. Surely that is to be expected now. But they’ll be taken apart by any of Brazil, France, Uruguay or Belgium unless they find a way to score goals from open play.As a broad generalisation you could say that about half the teams in the competition. There are some who score goals and some who score set pieces.
Those of us with long memories will remember the "Swedes 2 Turnips 1" headline from Euro 92 :demon:
I don't think I have ever seen a headbut in a football match before and the match was somewhat of a disgraceful exhibition. Whilst England go through, to my mind they never really looked convincing finishers last night. I feel that they may struggle given quality opposition although evidently good in defence, unless a shift in approach is adopted for future matches.
Just realised that, thanks to the exigiencies of the draw, England have reached the last 5!That's the kind of upbeat, positive thinking I like to read in football threads. :thumbsup:
We weren't great and Colombia really were unpleasant to watch at times.It was pretty obvious that was Columbia's game plan - which was probably influenced by Rodrigeuz unable to play and the fact the referee was pants weak. They did everything they could to unsettle England - sometimes fairly and sometimes in a manner that stretched the boundaries so to speak, or as Southgate described it - 'with some typical South American tactics'. They should have just played the ball to try and score goals - they certainly had the ability. At the end of the day those tactics tell you only one thing - they feared England more than visa-versa. They got it all wrong. Shame.
A very different kettle of sushi to the honourable display put on by Japan.
Just realised that, thanks to the exigiencies of the draw, England have reached the last 5!That's the kind of upbeat, positive thinking I like to read in football threads. :thumbsup:
Last 6 surely. On Saturday morning, England Sweden Russia Croatia plus two good sides.
We weren't great and Colombia really were unpleasant to watch at times. A very different kettle of sushi to the honourable display put on by Japan.
Being a Swindon Town fan, I get very nervous when I watch tippy tappy football twixt goalkeeper and defenders, passing the ball backwards and forwrds amongst themselves, sometimes very close to opposition attackers. Swindon used to do this a lot and, though attacks often resulted due to the creation of space, frequently a defender or the keeper would fuck up and we would conceed. Now, I know our national team are a lot more proficient than my regular team but, so are the opposition. Sooner or later, we will fuck up and conceed. Stop passing around at the back with no sign of any urgency and GET THE FUCKING BALL FORWARD!
I feel better for that.
Here we go, here we go, here we go!
Being a Swindon Town fan, I get very nervous when I watch tippy tappy football twixt goalkeeper and defenders, passing the ball backwards and forwrds amongst themselves, sometimes very close to opposition attackers. Swindon used to do this a lot and, though attacks often resulted due to the creation of space, frequently a defender or the keeper would fuck up and we would conceed. Now, I know our national team are a lot more proficient than my regular team but, so are the opposition. Sooner or later, we will fuck up and conceed. Stop passing around at the back with no sign of any urgency and GET THE FUCKING BALL FORWARD!
Being a Swindon Town fan, I get very nervous when I watch tippy tappy football twixt goalkeeper and defenders, passing the ball backwards and forwrds amongst themselves, sometimes very close to opposition attackers. Swindon used to do this a lot and, though attacks often resulted due to the creation of space, frequently a defender or the keeper would fuck up and we would conceed. Now, I know our national team are a lot more proficient than my regular team but, so are the opposition. Sooner or later, we will fuck up and conceed. Stop passing around at the back with no sign of any urgency and GET THE FUCKING BALL FORWARD!
To point out the obvious, it's designed to spread out the opposition so the midfield has space to play, rather than the keeper just lumping it up with the opposition squashed in the space between the half way line and their penalty area.
The reason it gets so nervy is when the midfield don't do their job and provide an easy option from the defenders. In a 3-5-2 it's a problem if Ali and Lingaard wander too far forward that it becomes 3-3-2-2 and Henderson is all but isolated in the middle, he doesn't really know how play this way. Even Maguire was getting frustrated whenever he took the ball over the half way line and had no obvious outlets.
Talking of things that are deserving of an airing every four years....It's a song that would have to have been sung even if there hadn't been any football, though not necessarily by New Order. Why did John Barnes not pursue a career in music?
Nonsense, naffness, unpolished but somehow just simply so brilliant.
Best ever WC song big a million miles. I liked it at the time and I still do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re4aDJL3heA
I think that cartoon requires a level of background knowledge that is totally beyond a once-every-4-years dilettante like me.All you need to know is to put your daps on.
According to a Swiss TV channel, Neymar has spent nearly a quarter of an hour rolling on the ground since the WC began.
Good luck to England from this ScotFunnily enough, the only Scot that I work with has said much the same thing :thumbsup:
They have a go, play the game the right way (colombia were a disgrace on apar with Uruguay 1986) and seem a decent bunch of hard working players.
Long way to go, but they deserve any success that comes their way.
:thumbsup:
There was a rather famous one by Zinedine Zidane, and in a world cup, too. But it was less in your face and more of a chest-butt, but.Yes, as with many footballers nowadays, the Italian player went down rather theatrically. ::-)
Just watching the pundits pontificating before BEL-BRZ. When Alan Shearer started going on about players rolling around on the floor and diving, it was pleasing to note the sheepish grin on Jürgen Klinsmann's face :demon:
Edited for dramatic effect.Ronaldo, Messi, the Germans going home. Oh dear what a shame.Who's missing? Spain (tick), Uraguay (tick), Brazil, (tick).
Bigger tests beckon - if its Croatia in the SFs then it would be two games against teams with superior players to win the thing.I haven't seen anything from Croatia in this world cup that England should be worried about.
Bigger tests beckon - if its Croatia in the SFs then it would be two games against teams with superior players to win the thing.I haven't seen anything from Croatia in this world cup that England should be worried about.
The turnips will be World Champions if they win their next match: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_Football_World_Championships
The Belgian and French teams may have played more attractive football in this World Cup, but they were forced to against opposition that also played better.That's the key thing in my view. Argentina, Belgium, Brazil and France adds up to far more lively football than Colombia, Croatia, Denmark, England, Russia, Sweden. Yes, England's game against Sweden was a great improvement – and against Croatia will probably be better still, because Croatia are better opposition – but still, compared to Belgium versus Brazil it was like flies in tar. Sure, no real saying who will win what and I'm far from knowledgeable on football anyway, but I'm expecting a more exciting game today than tomorrow. Mind you, I still intend watching both!
On the latter, I think English kids will never again have the first-touch control and natural dribbling skills needed to make a success of the passing game. This is learned by playing among yourselves as kids on 5-degree inclined pitches … the sort of thing no talented English child has a chance to do before being absorbed into a club environment and schooled to death on statistics-based theoretical football and physical fitness.I think that's massively out of date - did you watch the England U20 and U17 world cup wins last summer? Youth football in this country has come on massively. There's an issue with the opportunities they get to advance in the senior game, but it's not because they lack a first touch.
England are 16/1 to win the World cup.
If you don't understand betting or odds then that means that, if you place £10 on England to win the World cup, you lose your £10.
Ha! Henderson is also from Sunderland! I hope Sterling scores, too.
I dont suspect that the cash out value is worth much if anything at this stage (and in any event a cash out by definition always represents bad odds)England are 16/1 to win the World cup.
If you don't understand betting or odds then that means that, if you place £10 on England to win the World cup, you lose your £10.
Maybe correct, but I reckon you'd get something on a cash in
What do we reckon, hold your nerve or take the cash
I dont suspect that the cash out value is worth much if anything at this stage (and in any event a cash out by definition always represents bad odds)
Well that was a crap game. I watched the TdF highlights and missed the first half - think I made the right decision.
Looking forward to seeing this guy Cammy Gnome that everybody is singing about.
As the fashion became a craving across Europe, only the wise knew of it’s origins. The word cravat derived from the French cravate, a corrupt French pronunciation of Croate.Really? More likely to be from the Croat, Hrvat. Lack of erudition!(!)
I think that's massively out of date - did you watch the England U20 and U17 world cup wins last summer?
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:Looking forward to seeing this guy Cammy Gnome that everybody is singing about.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1787/29468312418_ede107aac6_o.jpg)
Hazard and Courtois are accusing France of "anti-football" meaning they simply defended after they'd taken the lead. I don't think that's fair. Belgium had most of the possession and to my inexpert eye looked the better side for the first half hour or so, but France made/exploited several chances right to the end of the game.
Quality defending can be 'attractive' too - I thought Varane was a joy to watch last night.
This England team is structured and organised. They have picked the players who fit the structure, not the best footballers, because that's how you do well at tournament football.I think that's massively out of date - did you watch the England U20 and U17 world cup wins last summer?
No. It’s based only on the games of this World Cup. English players are too often clumsy with the ball and rarely take a man on (Sterling excepted and he fails often). They mostly play a game of athletic power and endurance, set pieces, and statistical analysis. It works or they wouldn’t be in with a realistic chance of winning the World Cup, but it’s not usually pretty.
I spent my teenage years playing beach football in Brazil and received very little formal training (having no special talent, etc.). When I watch Brazilian players, very often they do what I fondly imagine I would do (if I had the skill and speed). When I watch England, the players much less often make the decisions I would. Especially the off-the-ball movement is highly theoretical, not the natural movement you learn by unschooled playing.
No shame in 3rd/4th but perhaps unlike 1990 there must be a sense of deflation on having missed out.
That's interesting you say that, because where I sit right now I feel the exact opposite. The 1990 team was far superior to this team, I felt a much greater sense of deflation when England lost in 1990 to how I do this evening. When they finally got it together England had a decent outfit in 1990 - some real quality in there.
...although even then they lacked shots on target (anyone know how many they had?)...
Thanks. Five shots on target in 120 minutes isn’t great, is it. I wonder how many of those were in the pressing first half.
a manager who repeatedly chose a striker with a track record of incredible incompetence at international level (but apparently can't be criticised for fear of accusations of racism).I think that's kinda harsh on Harry Kane who despite doing seemingly very little in open play is likely to win the golden boot. :P
No shame in 3rd/4th but perhaps unlike 1990 there must be a sense of deflation on having missed out.
That's interesting you say that, because where I sit right now I feel the exact opposite.
Statistically, were England better before the Premier League ruined English club football?
England have more (better) players, and the U<age> teams are very impressive, but these opportunities don't come around often.
Statistically, were England better before the Premier League ruined English club football?
Think of all those great Scottish, Welsh and Irish players that played for all top English club sides in the past. Where are they now?
Think of all those great Scottish, Welsh and Irish players that played for all top English club sides in the past. Where are they now?
Playing for Real Madrid. Well, one of them is, anyway.
The real question is why aren't the top European clubs signing up the best English talent like they have in the past? I don't think it's necessarily because the Premier League is the best league, nor is it the best paid.
Harry Kane and a few others would almost certainly benefit from a spell playing club football abroad. Nothing wrong with Spurs but it wouldn't hurt to broaden their cultural horizons.
The Premier League doesn't care about the national teams, but neither do the leagues of the other nations. There are a variety of "homegrown" rules that are supposed to help, but TBH, business is the way that you will get kids developed. When academies cost millions to run, they need to develop players for the first team or for sale (to other Premier League clubs as they are the ones with the money). And they need to demonstrate a route to the first team, or players will refuse to sign new contracts and move somewhere they will play (see Solanke, Lookman and others).England have more (better) players, and the U<age> teams are very impressive, but these opportunities don't come around often.Statistically, were England better before the Premier League ruined English club football?
English club football has traditionally provided players to the English national team [obviously!], but historically, it's also been a fertile ground for fleshing out the bones for the Scottish, Welsh and Irish national teams. Think of all those great Scottish, Welsh and Irish players that played for all top English club sides in the past. Where are they now? Where is the pool of players for international managers to pick from now? Playing for other teams, and other teams that play a lower standard of football.
There is a lot of good work going on at the youth level, but getting an opportunity at club level is becoming a real problem for these kids, which then has a knock on affect on the national team......and all he other national teams of he British Isles [if I can use that rather old term!!].
The Premier league cares little about the national team, why should it? Nothing in for them really. Nothing financially anyway - which is what would interest them most. Likewise when the season's in full swing most fans care little either really, and clubs certainly don't want a 'big' asset going for international duty only to be returned injured and sitting on the bench for big champion league games.
It's that old chestnut again.
Statistically, were England better before the Premier League ruined English club football?
What percentage of French and Croation players play in their own domestic leagues? Not many I would guess... Or Brazilians or Belgians etc etc... The Premier League only "ruined" English football if you yearn for the days of cold pies on the terraces with the odd bit of violence thrown in to liven up the day...
Youngsters are going to have to face some difficult decisions if they want to play professional football in the future, because if they hit a brick wall after playing in the UnderX team, and reach a good standard, looking to play abroad is going to be a perfectly reasonable option because doors might be closing pretty sharpish if they stay here. Or just accept that you won't play at the top level in this country.
It's a strange one though. The picture gets confusing when you look abroad. Look at Germany. Always very keen to learn from past mistakes, always keen to put processes in place to improve and develop. In 2014 they hammered Brazil in the final. It was embarrassing. In this World Cup.......they were dreadful. What's happened to Germany in those 4 years? The Dutch didn't even get there. Nor the Italians. Glad I wasn't supporting any of them :) You got good value as an England supporter this time around!
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11266682/jadon-sancho-ademola-lookman-why-premier-league-youngsters-are-choosing-the-bundesliga
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4898604/Bundesliga-clubs-offering-young-British-players-chance.html
Well, I don’t agree with that although I missed the first 30 minutes. England played well and pressed hard but as usual did not score goals even when they generated the occasional good chance.England didn't seem to press much in the first half - they came to life in the second but the decent chances fell to Dier.
The lesson of this World Cup has been that possession is useless because organised defences are hard to penetrate unless you catch them on the break … and so it proved again, with England’s slow development leading to nothing again and again while Belgium’s counter-attacks were lethal because in those moments the English defence was all over the place.
Est-ce que le foot revient chez lui?
I wonder how much Pickford is now worth? It's a shame that 'moving' headlines will pass over the heads of the young.
That lesson again in numbers (DuncanM’s doubt notwithstanding!): 34% possession, 7 shots, 6 on target, 4 goals, 1 World Cup.Yeah, Croatia had twice the possession, twice the shots but half the goals. It was a bit like Russia-Spain but far, far better!
Est-ce que le foot revient chez lui?
Pas aujourd'hui! Mon equipe s'appelle Chateau Nouveau Uni, (la plupart est francaise!)
I thought your Chateau Nouveau Uni was rather amusing. ;D
(I'd been reading about how England might be the home of football but France is the home of FIFA and the World Cup. Obviously all the other countries are mere johnny come lately imposters, especially those Germans!)
Now that the groups have been drawn, what do you think?
I stuck a fiver on England. Probably foolish - stranger things probably haven't happened - but you never know......
It may not be foolish, it depends entirely on what the bet is. Beating Tunisia isn't entirely beyond the realms of fantasy. Winning the competition is.
They actually have a fairly benign group and, assuming they get out of the group, will avoid the big teams in the first knockout game. After that it's just a couple of games from holding the cup aloft. Simple as that*.
*Except we looked typically mediocre and uninspiring in our recent friendlies.
Assuming you got 16/1 odds or thereabouts that feels about right. Not impossible just unlikely (especially when Spain, Brazil and Germany are 4/1 or 5/1. Think I'd rather have my money there).
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:P
Allez Les Gauls!
(You know, if I think of The French being represented by those two, I feel much more pleased for them. As opposed to someone like Zidane ... )
We were mediocre.
We beat poor teams and got beaten by good teams. That perfectly sums up "mediocre".
Our "promising young players" were mediocre whilst the even younger French youngsters won it.
Never again will the stars line up like that for an England triumph. No Holland and almost all the major teams looked poor.
France totally deserved it, they drew once and won the rest.
We have some incredibly overrated players, like Raheem Sterling and Jordan Henderson.
I think the euphoria about getting to the Semi-finals needs to be tempered by looking at how we got there, who we beat to get there, and how close to not beating some quite average teams we were.
We can play "on the floor" in areas that don't matter but we revert to type, with long-balls to short players, when the going gets tough.
Harry Kane is a quality player, true World class in my eyes. Jordan Pickford did himself no harm at all, he looked commanding and capable, amazing given his age. From there I'd say Maguire looked promising but then I start to struggle. Stones possibly.
I was disappointed that Southgate stuck with Sterling and never gave Rashford a full game.
Overall the history books will show we were the 4th best team at the Tournament, Gareth will probably get an MBE, Raheem Sterling will probably get an extra few million quid a year but I was quite shocked at how typically England it got when things started to go against us. We still don't have good enough technique with the ball.
Ah well... you never know. We are very successful at youth level in tournaments now. If (and it's a huge IF) they get game-time with Premiership clubs* then the future is bright.
*This is at the root of the issue. Our promising youth don't play enough at the cutting edge in the premiership.
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It's interesting that 2 people can watch the same thing and come away thinking totally different things. :)
While he has demonstrated over the last few years he's an incredible striker, I thought Kane was really poor. He's not played well since he came back from the injury earlier this season.
Sterling was one of the few players who could actually transition the ball from the back into the final third. Whenever he went off, England resorted to route 1, because there was no-one to lay through. Rashford is a good footballer, and if you can get him the ball in the final third he makes things happen, but he doesn't do the same things that Sterling does.
Henderson is the best all-round holding midfielder England had available. He has his limits (he's not particularly quick, he is certainly no Kante), but his passing is an order of magnitude better than Dier.
Where we agree is about about the chances youth players get, though let's face it, if Mbappe was at a premiership club then he would play. Young attackers with pace get to play. It's the other positions (or players without pace) that rarely get a chance.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose," [Mesut] Ozil said.
Sterling's problem isn't moving the ball forward at pace, it's his decision-making once he gets to the 18 yard box.
does your comparison between Sterling and Rashford do justice to Rashford? I wonder if the goals per minute on the pitch were compared, whether Rashford would trail. I don't know, just wonder.
It's a fair question. I assumed they were roughly similar but that's a pure guess. So I checked...
Sterling - 3568 minutes played, 155 minutes per goal
Rashford - 2676 minutes played, 205 minutes per goal
I definitely would like to see Rashford get his chance for England. Biased or not, even Man United fans wouldn't rave about him if he weren't that good.
I guess a lot will also come down to the systems their teams play. Maybe Rashford would score a lot more if he weren't playing under Mourinho. ;)
(And yes, I am painfully aware that Liverpool scored 16 more goals than United but still finished six points behind them in the league last season. Scoring goals is clearly not everything, but it's a pretty key stat when choosing who should be playing up front for England.)
His Man City affiliations don't affect my judgement because I'm going off his England performances.
Unfortunately his England stats are - 2906 minutes played, 2 goals = 1453 minutes per goal vs Rashford's 350 mins per goal (3 England goals) and Emile Heskey's 485 in 3401 minutes (7 England Goals)
He compares badly to Emile Heskey (who was derided for his lack of England goals).
He's got time to improve, and I think he needs to improve, his positional sense, his vision, his awareness of others, his ruthlessness in front of goal, quickly.
He's overrated at the moment though. I would say that, at 23 years of age, if he was going to be truly World class, then he'd be showing true World class by now.
We're desperately short of a "Paul Scholes" in front of Henderson.
Deserves a mention:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44915730Quote"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose," [Mesut] Ozil said.
I had to wonder how France's non-white players (i.e. most of them) would be treated if France had lost. Probably no better.
I had to wonder how France's non-white players (i.e. most of them) would be treated if France had lost. Probably no better.
I've seen Jonjo Shelvey's name mentioned. He would add something interesting to the side - as long as he could avoid getting sent off.
Ali is a slightly more athletic Lampard
The strange thing about him is that he doesn't strike the ball very well - most attackers with half his talent have the ability to put their laces through something and really ping it, but he seems to be lacking that completely and I don't understand why/how that has not been developed.
Suarez is the perfect example of someone not needing a lesson with Flip-chart and marker pens. He's an absolute twat of a human but you have to admit he's gifted at being in the right place or making something from nothing. He also, like other greats, made average team-mates seem better than they were. No names mentioned.
:)Suarez is the perfect example of someone not needing a lesson with Flip-chart and marker pens. He's an absolute twat of a human but you have to admit he's gifted at being in the right place or making something from nothing. He also, like other greats, made average team-mates seem better than they were. No names mentioned.
Oh, come on - Messi and Coutinho aren't that bad! ;)
:)Suarez is the perfect example of someone not needing a lesson with Flip-chart and marker pens. He's an absolute twat of a human but you have to admit he's gifted at being in the right place or making something from nothing. He also, like other greats, made average team-mates seem better than they were. No names mentioned.
Oh, come on - Messi and Coutinho aren't that bad! ;)
And while they seemed to co-exist rather than work together, he and Studge made quite a pair as well.
I think England at this World cup were a team that only advanced because of the flip chart and marker pens. How many set piece goals did they score?
Ross Barkley needs to start getting some regular game time for Chelsea
Ross Barkley needs to start getting some regular game time for Chelsea
Always a Marmite character, but always intriguing, Roy Keane was asked on ITV at the end of the WC how he saw England developing under Southgate -
"It won't be down to Gareth Southgate how England develop, it will be down to how many games these players get playing for their clubs - that's where they'll develop."