Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 143507 times)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #300 on: 10 July, 2012, 09:10:11 am »
Anonymous idiots tweeting about cycling should not be taken seriously. But they must be extremely annoying to those doing, rather than talking. I'd use some pretty foul language in Wiggo's position.

I thought Wiggo's reaction was completely reasonable considering he'd just bust a gut (twice in two days) to stop an ungainly, last-ditch attack by Cuddles by twiddling after him.

And FWIW, it looks to me like there's not much doping going on - stage results, between the favourites at least, are very close and Sky's results look like what you get if you train the entire team well, recce the routes properly, build team spirit through good management and have a plan for every inch of the route. Big up Baldy Dave.

No strange and sudden "successes" this year - nothing to compare with the odd performances we've seen in previous years where a rider who seems to be doing averagely (for him) suddenly leaps off the front and flattens the opposition. No Tyler Hamilton or Floyd Landis (or, dare I say it, Alberto Contador)-style wins here.
The journey is always more important than the destination

vorsprung

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #301 on: 10 July, 2012, 09:17:06 am »
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.

The French could have got a great big team with a shed load of cash being chucked at it.  They could have spent a few years building it up.  They could have had their GC hopeful on form.  They could be in the best position to win the TdF for years and years and years.  But they didn't, GB did and the TdF is now Skys to loose

As for the doping sh**, if you've read Wiggins biography it is extremely unlikely he would dope.  Never say never of course.  Wiggos dad was a track cyclist in the 60s and was doped up to the eyeballs.  Doping ruined his dads life.  And Wiggo as a kid could see this.  During the worst years of doping Wiggo lost to people who were on the sauce.  At the moment the use of drugs has gone through a blip, so many big names have been caught that IMHO there is slightly less of it going on.

Therefore, Wiggo is on a more level playing field and that's another reason he is in the yellow

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #302 on: 10 July, 2012, 09:21:27 am »
I am loving Bradley more and more having listened to his recent comments to camera and interview :D
He seems to have upset some of the stuffiest up-themselves holier-than-thou kinds in the process ... epic  :thumbsup:
Personally I would have called the twattering idiots twats not cunts, but hey that's just me. Go Bradley  ;D

Me too. And the po-faced holier-than-thou arseholes who don't like it know what they can do. Get me that C***Strong band; it'd be a fine answer to those who doubt hard work, talent and application.*



* Ahem. Not that I have any talent, and I'm not too good at the hard work and application stuff either. Oh well.

vorsprung

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #303 on: 10 July, 2012, 09:22:03 am »
http://www.lequipe.fr/qdj/2642

La question du jour (Mardi 10 juillet )
Bradley Wiggins va-t-il gagner le Tour de France ?

    
Code: [Select]
Voter
OUI   56%
Oui
NON  37%
Non
NSP   7%
NSP

4 706 votes

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #304 on: 10 July, 2012, 09:28:50 am »
There's a substantial amount of incredulity being expressed after today's results , particularly in the French tongue.

The French could have got a great big team with a shed load of cash being chucked at it. 

They have, in FdJ, which is (I hope) why Thibaut Pinot won the other day. But they don't have the management to capitalise on the riders and the money. Sorry, M Madiot, but passion alone is not enough.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #305 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:03:21 am »
I'm another one who's liking Wiggins more and more as a character rather than just admiring him as a rider. I think his language was a bit ott but not his reaction as a whole. But regardless of that, he comes across as remarkably likeable for such a successful sportsman.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #306 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:23:05 am »
Team Sky also have shedloads (or c***loads?) of money.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind moments after I'd logged off last night, otherwise I would have appended it to my previous comment. After all, it's how they lured Wiggins away from Garmin, and how they made sure they got Cav rather than see him go to another team when HTC expired. The likes of Porte, Uran, Sivtsov, EBH etc wouldn't have come cheap either. They are the Man City of cycling. Money is certainly a factor in their success.

If SKY have all the money then I'd be tempted to offer Sagan a deal next year.

Not sure how Sagan would fit in at Sky when they already have Cav and EBH, not to mention Swifty and others coming up through the ranks.

Quote
I don't know how long Wiggins has got left at this top level but between him, Cav, Froome and Sagan, they'd have someone who could win any type of stage. Realistically, they could be domestiques for Froome.

Froome is Lemond to Wiggins's Hinault... Except Wiggins isn't nearly as exciting a rider to watch as Hinault. Froome is the complete package though. A lot of people think he should already be team leader.

And don't forget Geraint Thomas - just imagine how strong Sky would have been this year with him available... the mind boggles.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #307 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:30:14 am »
They have, in FdJ, which is (I hope) why Thibaut Pinot won the other day. But they don't have the management to capitalise on the riders and the money. Sorry, M Madiot, but passion alone is not enough.

Yes, I think it's a cultural thing more than just a money thing. The French teams are still very much mired in the traditions of the sport (except that one - Madiot is a vociferous anti-doper). Brailsford has come to road racing with no history in the sport, so no preconceptions about how things should be done. Garmin are the same to some extent, founded on the principle of looking at new ways to approach the sport - they lack Sky's resources but still managed to win the Giro this year. Their strong team ethic is one of the main reasons for that (AIUI, Garmin were the first team to insist on all their riders living near the team's central "hub", for training and monitoring purposes).

I think in the coming years we'll see the Continental teams start to adopt the methods of Sky and Garmin. It could be a very exciting time for the sport.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

fuzzy

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #308 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:32:05 am »
Can we order some "YACF C***strong" bracelets?

£1.88 each for 50, £1.30 each for 100. Single colour, embossed. Don't know if this includes VAT.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #309 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:38:04 am »
Froome is Lemond to Wiggins's Hinault... Except Wiggins isn't nearly as exciting a rider to watch as Hinault.

Somehow I can't imagine Wiggo having fisticuffs with angry farmers blocking the route.  Le Blaireau decked the nearest one with a right cross and rode past the rest.
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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #310 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:40:29 am »
matt, I can't tidy this reply up properly, so I hope you can follow it!

I didn't see the interview but I suspect his tirade was against anonymous twitterers rather than against the journalist who asked the question; a case of "kick the cat".  If he really thinks that no-one else does a job in the world other than someone who starts off supremely gifted anyway, then he's just wrong. 

What an astonishing conclusion to draw from so little basis.

Quote

You're absolutely right, Matt, which is why I said "really".  I have absolutely no axe to grind on this at all.  I think he would have liked to get at the twitterers but couldn't which is why he let fly via the journalist.  I don't think his choice of words was the finest in the world and I certainly don't take a delight in it but it must be incredibly wearing to have your every performance under scrutiny, though of course, there is history to consider.  I think maybe, just to be absolutely certain, the authorities ought to search his sideburns!



Quote
Has he always had a short fuse?
Well have you watched any of his other dozens of interviews? Or even listened to the rest of the press conference leading up to the twitter/drugs question?

No, which is why I asked the question; there was no side to it at all.  This internet is a dangerous place, isn't it?

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #311 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:44:15 am »
Rob has been following this Tour increasingly avidly and is now making noises about wanting us to get a late deal to go to Paris to watch the final stage. Any tips/pointers from those of you who’ve done so?

mattc

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #312 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:56:48 am »
Peter,
Fair enough. I guess my main beef is that Wiggo is (IMHO) a gentleman of the sport and is very polite and reasonable in 99% of interviews. Most athletes have been asked a stupid provocative question by journos, purely to generate column inches. The press don't really earn any intelligent replies to their questions.

(I think if you reread your post you can see the strong anti-Wiggo undercurrent that I inferred from it. I'm happy to accept that it was not intended  :thumbsup:)

Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #313 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:57:14 am »
Somehow I can't imagine Wiggo having fisticuffs with angry farmers blocking the route.  Le Blaireau decked the nearest one with a right cross and rode past the rest.

Can you not? Given some of his recent behaviour, I think it's looking increasingly likely that he will punch someone sooner or later.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #314 on: 10 July, 2012, 11:03:49 am »
Peter,
Fair enough. I guess my main beef is that Wiggo is (IMHO) a gentleman of the sport and is very polite and reasonable in 99% of interviews. Most athletes have been asked a stupid provocative question by journos, purely to generate column inches. The press don't really earn any intelligent replies to their questions.

(I think if you reread your post you can see the strong anti-Wiggo undercurrent that I inferred from it. I'm happy to accept that it was not intended  :thumbsup:)

Yes, you're right, matt; I guess the "toilet-mouth" didn't help!  I was trying to imagine being on the receiving end of that (I'm not a saint myself in this or any other aspect!)  I accept what others say about Bradley being a generally good bloke and am not anti-him at all.  I'm thrilled by his performance and that of the whole team - and of Sagan and Cancellara and Greipel.  It's a great tour!

Cheers

Peter

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #315 on: 10 July, 2012, 11:38:13 am »

If SKY have all the money then I'd be tempted to offer Sagan a deal next year.

Not sure how Sagan would fit in at Sky when they already have Cav and EBH, not to mention Swifty and others coming up through the ranks.


I was thinking that Sagan seems able to win stages with an uphill sprint, Cavendish can win on the flat sprints, Froome can win the really difficult (20%) sprints, Wiggins can win the TTs and possibly (to be seen) Wiggins and/or Froome can win the long Alpine type stages.

Of course though I'd prefer SKY to be a team GB as much as possible so Wiggins, Froome, Cav, Swift and Thomas would make an excellent start.

Long may the Brailsford production-line continue.

Shame it can't be the BBC rather than SKY

David Martin

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #316 on: 10 July, 2012, 11:47:05 am »
Team Sky have focussed very strongly on the marginal details, and comprehensive detailed analysis.

This is evident when you look at a) how they have brought in Dr Tim Kerrison(?) who has a strong track record in swimming to transfer the knowledge they have developed there into cycling. The competition structure is different so they have strongly moved away from the 'racing into form' to training specifically for the needs of the race.

Comments like 'we looked at that Vuelta stage and realised that I need to improve my explosive power and upper body strength so I have been spending time doing that in the gym' - 'we calculated what power output we needed to do to match or exceed the pace on XXX climbs and have trained for that' - problems when the road goes above 1500m? find a trianing camp at altitude and do long days replicating and exceeding race pace on similar climbs at altitude.

It is about focus and specific training. The days of doing every race a la mercx or Hinault are long gone. Your focus is dictated by how important the races are and what the sponsor (Sky/BC) gets back from them.   So all the little races are not important for Wiggo, Sky put a different team in place and let Wiggins concentrate on the tour specific training. Then the payback is enormous - Sky's marketing executives must be wetting themselves having their brand prominent in every newspaper and most of their competitor TV channels worldwide.

This doesn't come cheap. As one paper put it, you have a 1M/year rider supported by 3 guys each of whom are on 500k/yr and all of whom would be GC contenders in their own right, and they are riding to support one guy on 2M/yr. Sky have bought the GC competition and put it to the service of Brad. Because he is right now their best chance of the win in Paris.

Froome is a rising star but does not yet have the experience to lead a team - he will probably get the chance in the Vuelta (which I would suspect Brad won't ride) to go for glory himself and will have the support of a slightly less able Sky team (include Uran and Henao) depending on who is available/fit.

I don't think we have seen the best of Sky yet but they have to be careful to conserve their energy. Cav is doing a great team job as well as picking up a stage here and there. I don't think he will be going for any more intermediate points as he is so far down the green classification, but expect a leadout tour de force on the Champs Elysee (where Cav has never lost)
 


 
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

citoyen

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #317 on: 10 July, 2012, 12:19:36 pm »
Reports coming through of a police raid on the Cofidis hotel this morning, Remi di Gregorio and two others arrested...

:facepalm:

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #318 on: 10 July, 2012, 12:43:38 pm »
What curious timing to arrest a French rider on a French team on the TdF, in a case opened last year. The other two were apparently arrested in Marseille, whence the judgement came.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #319 on: 10 July, 2012, 12:59:48 pm »
The French press have been very quick to point out that the case was opened when Di Gregorio was riding for Astana, but it doesn't look great for Cofidis either - even if the team was nothing to do with his doping, if he was carrying on doping after he joined them, it doesn't reflect well on their internal controls. You'd have thought that Cofidis in particular would have learned that lesson.

The twitter cunts will be having a field day but you only have to look at how the likes of Sky and Garmin are set up to see that this kind of thing wouldn't be possible there.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #320 on: 10 July, 2012, 01:16:51 pm »
It wouldn't be a proper TdF rest day without somebody getting busted. :demon:
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #321 on: 10 July, 2012, 01:37:58 pm »

This is evident when you look at a) how they have brought in Dr Tim Kerrison(?) who has a strong track record in swimming to transfer the knowledge they have developed there into cycling.

Wasn't there some scoffing at BW and Sky when they started doing the warming down on rollers after races?  I think I read somewhere that Kerrison was amazed that this wasn't done. I've spotted others doing it now.

mattc

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #322 on: 10 July, 2012, 01:45:34 pm »
Seems like half the (non-SKY) post-stage interviews are done on rollers. Does seem a bit bleedin' obvious in hindsight, doesn't it!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

red marley

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #323 on: 10 July, 2012, 01:53:24 pm »
Rob has been following this Tour increasingly avidly and is now making noises about wanting us to get a late deal to go to Paris to watch the final stage. Any tips/pointers from those of you who’ve done so?

I did this in Paris four years ago and it was good fun. We were at the the Arc de Triumph turn which was a great place to watch the riders as they take the corner. As it is at the top of the 'hill' you also get a good view of the straight. The disadvantage is that should there be an exciting sprint finish, you'll not get to see it directly.

To guarantee a front row position, you need to get there early (I think we were there about 11:00am and the riders arrived late afternoon). Was quite fun waiting for the first few hours, chatting with others, soaking up the atmosphere. It did get a bit stressful in the last hour or so before the riders arrived though. Plenty of (mostly French) people trying to push their way to the front. One tactic that several people tried was to send their kids through to the front so they could get a view (fair enough), and then attempt to push the rest of the adult family through to join them (not so fair enough). You need to be pretty firm to hold your position. Having said that, it was a great experience overall.

It was also fun in Paris before and after the event - quite a party atmosphere, so if you can get a few days away, I think it is worth it. We even managed to Velib up and down the closed Champs Elysees a few times which was rather nice.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #324 on: 10 July, 2012, 02:06:05 pm »
Thanks jo. Just the sort of thing I was after.

People shamelessly pushing their way to the front reminds me of festivals where I’ve waited at the front for ages for the headline act…or even London Transport…thanks for the warning.