this weekend, for the first time, I made

[tiermat]

Stock, from scratch.

Got a BIG bag of bones from the butchers (yes of corse they are for the dog, no I don't know what size he is )
Roast said bones in a hot (GM 6) oven until a nice dark brown colour
Place bones in big stock pan with onion, water, carrot and black pepper corns (not crushed)
Boil for an hour
drain lumpy bits out
reduce

Make gravy on sunday with stock, feel that warm glow of content that comes from making your own stuff, and feel like you could just eat a plate of gravy, it is that nice

[gonzo]

Real gravy is one of those things that you always forget how good it is.

Question is, how often can you be bothered to do it again?

[tiermat]

TBH, as I usually spend a good chunk of time on a weekend cooking, it didn't really add to the load (fitted in nicely between other jobs).  I could do with amuch much larger stock pan though....

[Martin109]

I know what you mean about the sense of satisfaction.  One of my favourite mutitasks is to get a really good free range chicken (one that Hugh Fearlessly-Eatsitall would be proud of) and strip all the meat from the carcass, subsequently making a smashing stock out of said carcass.  Then making a smashing chicken risotto out of the stock.

[goatpebble]

If there is one thing you can do in the kitchen to improve a huge range of dishes, it's making your own stock. Vegetable stock is stupidly cheap to make, and takes just five minutes of your time to prepare, but can make a huge difference to a simple risotto, for example.

Access to a fishmonger can provide you with wonderful stuff! A light fish stock can be used as the basis for so many things!

Don't forget how useful a good classic court-bouillon can be. You have, with some aromatics, a cooking medium, and the basis of an elegant and useful sauce. The simplicity and speed should keep your ideas disciplined, and the flavours should return you to the essence of what you are presenting.

Don't ever forget that stock is not a dumping ground. You must remember that everything you put in is just an attempt to create a medium that supports and enriches the finished dish. Good stock needs some skill and sensitivity, an idea of the context in which it will be used.

[nuttycyclist]

Stock, from scratch.

Got a BIG bag of bones from the butchers (yes of corse they are for the dog, no I don't know what size he is )
Roast said bones in a hot (GM 6) oven until a nice dark brown colour
Place bones in big stock pan with onion, water, carrot and black pepper corns (not crushed)
Boil for an hour
drain lumpy bits out
reduce

Make gravy on sunday with stock, feel that warm glow of content that comes from making your own stuff, and feel like you could just eat a plate of gravy, it is that nice

Cor!  Think of your carbon footprint for all that cooking!     I'm eco friendly so just use packet stuff 




(Actually, I hate putting liquids over a meal so don't often have gravy as I prefer to taste the food I just cooked instead of swamping it.    I'll drizzle the juices from the roast joint over the carved meat though.)

[tiermat]

Cor!  Think of your carbon footprint for all that cooking!     I'm eco friendly so just use packet stuff 

(Actually, I hate putting liquids over a meal so don't often have gravy as I prefer to taste the food I just cooked instead of swamping it.    I'll drizzle the juices from the roast joint over the carved meat though.)

'orses for courses innit?  I prefer a gravy that accentuates the qualities of a good roast....

[goatpebble]

I am sorry, I have to challenge the energy use/carbon thing. You must think closer to home. You slice up some onion, a carrot, a stick of celery, some parsley stalks, and a few peppercorns. You might have a glass of white wine left in the bottle from last night. A half hour simmer leaves you with a delicate stock that could add magic to a simple supper.

Your soup will benefit, and so will your risotto. A stock cube is just not the same. If you need a simple reduction for a light sauce, then you need your stock.

The luxury of a chicken carcase means you can really think ahead. Also, a fennel bulb that you don't know what to do with, can add wonderful flavour.

Simple stocks are about economy and appropriate use. The things that might be discarded become the basis of the most useful accessories. There is no waste, and your sauce takes you right back to the essence of what you are serving.

[Chris N]

Indeed.  I don't think you should ever resent the energy that goes into home cooking.  Transportation and industrial-scale production yes, but preparation no.

[David Martin]

Indeed.  I don't think you should ever resent the energy that goes into home cooking.  Transportation and industrial-scale production yes, but preparation no.

So if you have grown your own and can measure your meal in food metres (rather than food miles) a half hour simmer then allow to cool is hardly a massive eco problem.

..d

[Chris N]

So if you have grown your own and can measure your meal in food metres (rather than food miles) a half hour simmer then allow to cool is hardly a massive eco problem.

..d

Yep.

[bikenerd]

In my experience, bought stock cubes are just salt.
When we have a roast chicken we always make a stock from the carcass and then have a good soup / stew the next day.  Usually chicken and noodle soup, which you just can't make with bought stock cubes.
Yum!

[Tom B]

If the refinement and delicacy of your stock in any way approaches that of your prose, Goatpebble, it must be fine indeed!

Tell me, tho  - if you're doing a veggie or vegan soup or stew how do you give the stock body and rich flavour without resorting to a (e.g. Kallo) stock cube? Tried both Marmite and soy sauce but they don't quite get there.

[peliroja]

If the refinement and delicacy of your stock in any way approaches that of your prose, Goatpebble, it must be fine indeed!

Tell me, tho  - if you're doing a veggie or vegan soup or stew how do you give the stock body and rich flavour without resorting to a (e.g. Kallo) stock cube? Tried both Marmite and soy sauce but they don't quite get there.

I really recommend Marigold Swiss Vegetable Bouillon Powder - you can buy it in Vegan version, too - from Sainsburys and health food shops.

[goatpebble]

If the refinement and delicacy of your stock in any way approaches that of your prose, Goatpebble, it must be fine indeed!

Tell me, tho  - if you're doing a veggie or vegan soup or stew how do you give the stock body and rich flavour without resorting to a (e.g. Kallo) stock cube? Tried both Marmite and soy sauce but they don't quite get there.

Kallo's vegetable stock cube tastes like Paxo. It's really rather bad.

I am not sure I understand what a generic 'veggie or vegan soup' might be. If you are making a simple vegetable soup, it should taste of the vegetable you are using. You might start with a base that flavours the finished soup, but many traditional vegetable soups use water, not stock.

If I follow your train of thought, then I must hold up traditional soups as an example. A soup of white beans that starts with a base of onions, slowly cooked in olive oil, without frying, until they become very sweet. The soup progresses simply and surely, with tomato, white beans, cavolo nero or chard, and the only liquid used is water. The finish might be some very good oil, but the whole is more a product of sensible building blocks, of custom and availabilty. There are a thousand examples of this sort of cooking that don't involve the need for stock. It is always satisying and good.

I would say that when a soup needs a stock, it is because the stock itself becomes a medium for something else to happen. This might be a very simple dish, where the stock is quite specific, or a complex preperation where many layers of flavour have to be thought of. It is not the same, however, as just using stock to adjust a perceived lack of flavour.

All this sounds absurdly pretentious, but whatever you are cooking should taste of what it is. There is a real danger of becoming addicted to a false sort of flavour, and the salty and illusory 'richness' offered by a stock cube denies you the chance to appreciate the wonderful variety of stuff we have the good fortune to grab, without thinking, from our  shops. Considering our luxury of opportunity, it seems an absurd waste to use anything that makes everything taste the same.

[marna]

If the refinement and delicacy of your stock in any way approaches that of your prose, Goatpebble, it must be fine indeed!

Tell me, tho  - if you're doing a veggie or vegan soup or stew how do you give the stock body and rich flavour without resorting to a (e.g. Kallo) stock cube? Tried both Marmite and soy sauce but they don't quite get there.

For fake meatiness, some combination of mushroom ketchup, soy sauce, marmite, balsamic vinegar, treacle and a tiny tiny smidge of smoked paprika does the job. About the only soup that I'd use this in is veggie french onion soup, instead of beef stock. It's good in winter veg casseroles, and in onion gravy for pouring over sossidge and mash. I think it would overpower most veggie soups and stews, though.

[goatpebble]

A further thought, as to 'meatiness'. Bean soups, and lentil soups, are excellent flavoured with pimenton. It adds a background smoky richness that a guest might assume came from bacon or pancetta. Keep everything very simple. A base of onions cooked until sweet, in olive oil, and then add tomato, water, your beans, and your most flavoursome oil to finish.

The best herbs might be rosemary, or a little thyme, or just flat leaf parsley.


ps. Marna, I am sorry, I have just noticed that you have already mentioned smoke paprika, but a modest amount, and the gentle slow simmering of these sort of soups, mean that the flavour softens considerably. A careful hand is needed, I agree, but it is far more useful than you suggest.

But not in a classical French onion soup, please. If you have cooked your onions properly, then a vegetable stock will work. It might not be quite correct, but it will be nice.

It's probably best to look to context and tradition, when using spices. Not out of pedantry, but simple because time, custom, and place usually provide the best starting point, and the most relevant base for your own experiments.
 

[marna]

ps. Marna, I am sorry, I have just noticed that you have already mentioned smoke paprika, but a modest amount, and the gentle slow simmering of these sort of soups, mean that the flavour softens considerably. A careful hand is needed, I agree, but it is far more useful than you suggest.

But not in a classical French onion soup, please. If you have cooked your onions properly, then a vegetable stock will work. It might not be quite correct, but it will be nice.

With the smoked paprika, I meant that a tiny bit of that, and a tiny bit of as many of the others I mentioned as the kitchen can offer up, will turn a veggie stock as beefy as I've managed to make one. They all add a little bit of meatiness. I will use paprika in plenty of other things too - just not with marmite and mushroom ketchup and so on, because most of the time that much is overkill.

I've never been happy with a french onion soup made from unadulterated veg stock - it never tastes quite solid enough - so I make the fake beef stock. French onion is very much a comforting winter thing in my universe, and comfort foods always have more space for cheating.

[goatpebble]

ps. Marna, I am sorry, I have just noticed that you have already mentioned smoke paprika, but a modest amount, and the gentle slow simmering of these sort of soups, mean that the flavour softens considerably. A careful hand is needed, I agree, but it is far more useful than you suggest.

But not in a classical French onion soup, please. If you have cooked your onions properly, then a vegetable stock will work. It might not be quite correct, but it will be nice.

With the smoked paprika, I meant that a tiny bit of that, and a tiny bit of as many of the others I mentioned as the kitchen can offer up, will turn a veggie stock as beefy as I've managed to make one. They all add a little bit of meatiness. I will use paprika in plenty of other things too - just not with marmite and mushroom ketchup and so on, because most of the time that much is overkill.

I've never been happy with a french onion soup made from unadulterated veg stock - it never tastes quite solid enough - so I make the fake beef stock. French onion is very much a comforting winter thing in my universe, and comfort foods always have more space for cheating.

I will re-work my vegetarian version of the classic soup, and tell you how of the results. It might sound 'granny suck eggs', but the start, allowing the sugars in the onions to get to maximum sweetness, is tricky, but I know what you mean.

I am a Rosti addict, and Rosti mit Speck is the best, but I have stopped eating meat, so this is now difficult to get the same taste! I cook the onion in butter, and it is always good, but I miss the taste of the Speck! It is not so bad if I use some Gruyere, which is traditional. There is a local guy (Bayern) who makes a goat cheese with a weird savoury taste, and it makes everything very rich and odd. It's my favourite Sunday brunch, just the potato with a central layer of his cheese.

[Tom B]

I would say that when a soup needs a stock, it is because the stock itself becomes a medium for something else to happen. This might be a very simple dish, where the stock is quite specific, or a complex preperation where many layers of flavour have to be thought of. It is not the same, however, as just using stock to adjust a perceived lack of flavour.

Thanks for this, goatpebble, and indeed for the whole of your reply to my Q. In no way is what you say pretentious. Refined, yes; non-mainstream, yes; idealistic, maybe; pretentious, no. You have given a clear answer to a fair question. Will give what you say it thought, effort and experiment, tho it may take time.  I've weaned myself off 'false flavours' in, e.g, cheese, bread, beer, chocolate and even baked beans and it has invariably proved worthwhile.