Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: aidan.f on 20 February, 2024, 09:19:02 pm
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C'mon you lot.. I have lurked around yacf long enough to know that Furrybootoon* is err.. Edinburgh?, but why please?
* Google nuffink, dunno about chat gpt
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<placeholder for a pingu>
Aberdeen.
Meanwhile, I belive it's a dialect/local accent enquiry of where a person comes from "Furry boot y’ frae" (wherabouts you from?).
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This.
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Right country wrong city!
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See also the lead singer of Popular Beat Combo The Rezillos, Fay Fife. Born Sheilagh Hynd, she comes from, umm, Fife.
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I believe it's a Billy Connollyism.
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I believe it's a Billy Connollyism.
Probably.
But within the last 10 yrs I was on an early morning bus from Peterhead to Fraserburgh and wanting to get off at the village of Crimond, which has all off a 300 metre main street.
As I rose to leave. The driver said "Furra aboots?" and then stopped where I asked.
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
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I presume you have to survive on whale blubber most of the time?
And illuminate the dark six months of the year with whale-oil lamps, whilst wrapped up in freshly-clubbed seal-skins?
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I presume you have to survive on whale blubber most of the time?
And illuminate the dark six months of the year with whale-oil lamps, whilst wrapped up in freshly-clubbed seal-skins?
Thats only at the posh hotels
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The less posh ones set fire to a whole penguin[1].
[1] Hunkin, T. and Garrod, R. (1988)
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?
The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]
The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.
According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:
"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]
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On the subject of Doric, and this being a cycling forum and all...
My cycling routes often take me through the small village of Rhynie.
Every time I end up there, I get earwormed by an old comedy sketch by an outfit that went under the name of Scotland the What.
I found a recording of it on Youtube...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVBPU_y_9S8
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I clicked that and got something in Norwegian. ;D
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?
The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]
The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.
According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:
"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]
'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?
The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]
The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.
According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:
"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]
'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
At least since 1999 (cf Weinreich) !
I understood that Wikipedia page to say that Doric is a dialect of Scots, and Pingu earlier pointed out Aberdeen as having its own dialect within Doric.
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Did I? I didn't mean to...
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I clicked that and got something in Norwegian. ;D
I need lipreading to parse that as I can't tell if I'd have a chance with lipreading or if it would still be beyond me.
I remember my Glaswegian Grandad showing me some of his videos of different-Scottish-dialect comedy etc on VHS in the years before he got dementia. It's how I discovered the Corries.
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To me
Aberdonian = a person from Aberdeen, not a dialect.
For those interested in random Doric stuffs https://media.scotslanguage.com/library/document/RGU_Doric_Dictionary.pdf
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The in laws are from farming just outside Aiberdeen. I got smacked for suggesting that the rural Aberdeen accent sounds like a turkey being sick. I have since held my piece.
Having said that, they were occasionally happy to recite the phrase, used when you don't know which shoe should be worn on which foot, "fit fit fits fit fit?"
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I'm pleased to have started such an erudite and diverse discussion.
Do please continue for many more pages..
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I've looked at the Doric Dictionary; some words also occur in Scots; some were in daily use in Godzone in the sixties. They may still be used, but I escaped fifty years ago, so have no current knowledge.
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?
The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]
The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.
According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:
"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]
'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
At least since 1999 (cf Weinreich) !
I understood that Wikipedia page to say that Doric is a dialect of Scots, and Pingu earlier pointed out Aberdeen as having its own dialect within Doric.
Wrong way round.
Scots is a dialect of Doric.
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The in laws are from farming just outside Aiberdeen. I got smacked for suggesting that the rural Aberdeen accent sounds like a turkey being sick. I have since held my piece.
Having said that, they were occasionally happy to recite the phrase, used when you don't know which shoe should be worn on which foot, "fit fit fits fit fit?"
Unfortuantely that only works in text due to Scots orthography dying out in favour of "ach alddie jsut write whit ye think it soonds like in english"
"Quhat fit fits quhat fit?"
It covers the fact that in Scots there is a transition of pronunciation from Wit to Fit via Whit as you head north
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Whuckin' A.
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?
The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]
The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.
According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:
"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]
'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
At least since 1999 (cf Weinreich) !
I understood that Wikipedia page to say that Doric is a dialect of Scots, and Pingu earlier pointed out Aberdeen as having its own dialect within Doric.
Wrong way round.
Scots is a dialect of Doric.
Interesting. What are the other dialects?
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The in laws are from farming just outside Aiberdeen. I got smacked for suggesting that the rural Aberdeen accent sounds like a turkey being sick. I have since held my piece.
Having said that, they were occasionally happy to recite the phrase, used when you don't know which shoe should be worn on which foot, "fit fit fits fit fit?"
Unfortuantely that only works in text due to Scots orthography dying out in favour of "ach alddie jsut write whit ye think it soonds like in english"
"Quhat fit fits quhat fit?"
It covers the fact that in Scots there is a transition of pronunciation from Wit to Fit via Whit as you head north
Something similar happens in Maori. Not much else similar between the two though!
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Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?
The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]
The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.
According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:
"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]
'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
At least since 1999 (cf Weinreich) !
I understood that Wikipedia page to say that Doric is a dialect of Scots, and Pingu earlier pointed out Aberdeen as having its own dialect within Doric.
Wrong way round.
Scots is a dialect of Doric.
Interesting. What are the other dialects?
Opps, it is me that is upsy downsy
I thought Doric was a classification of european languages.
Nope, that is Scots (which extends from northern ireland to all parts of scotland).
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Scots and English are both Germanic languages with a recent common ancestor. Doric is a dialect of Scots, as is Lallan, and Shetlandic, and a bunch of others from your Ulster Scots to really niche dialects like East Neuk.
Gàidhlig is the Celtic language currently spoken in Scotland, although at one point the people who live in what is currently called Scotland spoke a form of Cumbric or Old Welsh. They remained the longest in the area that coincides with Doric, and I've sometimes wondered if there is any relation.
Sam
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I don't think anyone speaks any dialect of Scots up here.
Gàidhlig is common, and children use it in school.
There is a generation of people, roughly my age, who can't read or write Gàidhlig, but speak it as their first language. They are the product of the time when Gàidhlig wasn't taught in schools.
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One of my more practical engineering lecturers had spent time in the far North, and recounted a tale of a young student "and that fits that?"
"Yes it does"
not noticing the inflection, "that, fits that?" led to an apparently circular conversation until another student interjected
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The in laws are from farming just outside Aiberdeen. I got smacked for suggesting that the rural Aberdeen accent sounds like a turkey being sick. I have since held my piece.
Having said that, they were occasionally happy to recite the phrase, used when you don't know which shoe should be worn on which foot, "fit fit fits fit fit?"
Unfortuantely that only works in text due to Scots orthography dying out in favour of "ach alddie jsut write whit ye think it soonds like in english"
"Quhat fit fits quhat fit?"
It covers the fact that in Scots there is a transition of pronunciation from Wit to Fit via Whit as you head north
Which reminds be of the W.N. Herbert poem, Can't Spell, Won't Spell (https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/cant-spell-wont-spell/)
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I have to say I find the Aberdeen accent makes my boxers hit the floor...
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I have to say I find the Aberdeen accent makes my boxers hit the floor...
I am not sure what sort of response is warranted by this statement. Except, perhaps, "How?"
Sam
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Rapid onset anorexia caused by the thought of the local cuisine, I imagine.
Before you start, I have had nice meals in Aberdeen, but I've also lived in Scotland and eaten bridies.
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Scots and English are both Germanic languages with a recent common ancestor. Doric is a dialect of Scots, as is Lallan, and Shetlandic, and a bunch of others from your Ulster Scots to really niche dialects like East Neuk.
Doric is a collection of Dialects of Scots, I'd refer to any dialect of Scots from the Mearns north as Doric,
https://www.scotslanguage.com/articles/node/id/69
Gives a discussion on the various dialects
I have to say I find the Aberdeen accent makes my boxers hit the floor...
I am not sure what sort of response is warranted by this statement. Except, perhaps, "How?"
Sam
;D
I don't think anyone speaks any dialect of Scots up here.
Gàidhlig is common, and children use it in school.
There is a generation of people, roughly my age, who can't read or write Gàidhlig, but speak it as their first language. They are the product of the time when Gàidhlig wasn't taught in schools.
It's all to do with who the Stuarts tried to subdue by forcing Fife and Lothian culture on.
If you've not already, find out about the fife adventurers, the attempt to bring the Western Isles under control by planting Scots speakers (this is how the language got into Ulster too)
It didn't work there, it did work in Moray and Northern Isles
The language boundaries of Scotland start to make sense when you look at who ran the place early on.
Scots (then called Northumbrian English) came north with the angles in Lothian moving into Fife, which was the centre of power, kicking out Gaelic but influencing Spoken Scots. (Kinneucher and Ainster in the East Neuck for example are both Scoticised Gaelic)
Galwegian Gaelic was largely kicked out by the lowland advancement west of Scots.
But the other side of the Mounth remained Gaelic except in the North East where the Scots speaking people of power managed to take root (This is why there is a "Fife Keith", it's the bit the Thane of Fife owned)
except for the bits that had been gained from the Jarl of Orkney, Caithness and Sutherland, which would have been Gaelic and some Norn, so the BBC influence
Planting scots speakers in Orkney and Shetland is how we've ended up with those dialects being basically a clearer, heavily norse influenced form of Fife Scots.
In general Gaelic speaking areas that learnt English directly without going through Scots (Inverness etc.) sound very different from areas that did go through Scots.
There is an overlap though.
Mind I said Gaelic influenced Scots
Press, Breeks etc. (obv I'm writing in Scots there)
Scots and Gaelic for Cupboard and Trowsers
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I shall leave this here
https://twitter.com/cligeey/status/1764225388907987112
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The use of Ai to make the A sound in Aiberdeen is a fairly recent thing.
The Scots A says A anyway in many accents and dialects.
There is a hamlet called Arniefoul in Angus, someone has added an I to the signs so people say it right.
See also Alyth and Anster