Author Topic: AAA Points  (Read 162162 times)

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #450 on: 07 November, 2011, 07:25:21 pm »
Pretty Nag, I agree with you; it's been an amazing effort by both riders in their different ways and for other reasons.  I wish a way could be found to reward them both.  By the way, if anyone thinks the short rides are a soft option, they are not.  I've done some of them and they may be short but they are hard and at 1 or 1.25 points only (in only 30 miles mind) you've got to get out and do a lot of them.  Congratulations to both!  (And Chris Crookes has over 100 AAA points, too.)

Chris S

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #451 on: 07 November, 2011, 07:32:55 pm »
What do you mean by "Short Rides" Peter?. Surely "Short Rides" are contraindicated in a Long Distance association, no matter how hard?

It's a tricky thing - in a club that's all about distance - having an award that's all about hilliness.

I don't know the answer BTW, or even if there needs to be one.

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #452 on: 07 November, 2011, 07:48:58 pm »
What do you mean by "Short Rides" Peter?. Surely "Short Rides" are contraindicated in a Long Distance association, no matter how hard?

It's a tricky thing - in a club that's all about distance - having an award that's all about hilliness.

I don't know the answer BTW, or even if there needs to be one.

Certainly, Chris, there has been some discussion amongst riders about whether a long-distance "club", should countenance such things.  I have no particular view and I think both the efforts are praiseworthy.  I'd almost rather the association changed its sub-title than frown on such rides, but, as I've said, these aren't strong views.

You have PM, or will have in aminute!

JayP

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #453 on: 07 November, 2011, 08:41:43 pm »
In an non AAA rated event your task is to visit, in order, a sequence of 'controls' within explicit eta's and ltd's. The route you take is your business.
In an AAA event you are asked to do more. You have to follow a stipulated route as well. You are not asked, however, if you want to take part in The AAA. It's just assumed that you do because you entered an AAA  qualifying event - but you might have  entered just because you love the Dales or the Green Desserts or the Blue Remembered Hills whatever. Even if you don't give a stuff about AAA you will be deemed to have cheated if you deviate from the route. Is this fair? should there be an opt out?

Lovely Horse

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #454 on: 07 November, 2011, 09:02:32 pm »
Even if you don't give a stuff about AAA you will be deemed to have cheated if you deviate from the route. Is this fair?

I may be missing something subtle, but I don't see where it says that the route for AAA events is mandated?  Rather, just like all AUK events, I believe that all the rider needs to do is visit the named controls.  That those might be there to maintain the integrity of the hilly route is entirely consistent with non-AAA events.  Yes, it may be an info at the top of a hill one would rather not climb.  But those are the price to pay to have the route validated.

If riders don't want to do the route by visiting the controls required for AAA purposes, then they are not doing the ride as listed. DIY by GPS would cater for such requirements.  Or just riding for pleasure, without needing to get proof of passage at all (and so not getting ride validated and registered by AUK).

AndyH

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #455 on: 07 November, 2011, 09:03:00 pm »
In an AAA event you are asked to do more. You have to follow a stipulated route as well. You are not asked, however, if you want to take part in The AAA. It's just assumed that you do because you entered an AAA  qualifying event - but you might have  entered just because you love the Dales or the Green Desserts or the Blue Remembered Hills whatever. Even if you don't give a stuff about AAA you will be deemed to have cheated if you deviate from the route.
I agree wholeheartedly Jay, but I'm not sure it is a rule is it - the same free route between controls applies to AAA and non AAA events

I don't know the answer BTW, or even if there needs to be one.
Only award AAA points for rides over 200k? Although you could be right, maybe there is no need for an answer - another debate that isn't needed because it ain't broke.

In my first year I targeted AAA rides. This year I got a lot of my points "by accident" because they came with the rides I wanted to do.

Maybe this chap has the answer  :D
awarding AAA points on rides <1000km cheapens them  :-*

Lovely Horse

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #456 on: 07 November, 2011, 09:06:52 pm »
4,000 is the new 1,000.  Apparently.

Lovely Horse

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #457 on: 07 November, 2011, 09:09:12 pm »
I don't know the answer BTW, or even if there needs to be one.

42. 

What was the question?

 8)

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #458 on: 07 November, 2011, 09:20:57 pm »
What do you mean by "Short Rides" Peter?. Surely "Short Rides" are contraindicated in a Long Distance association, no matter how hard?

It's a tricky thing - in a club that's all about distance - having an award that's all about hilliness.


I agree. IMO points should only be awarded for 200km+ events accross the board. I'm not saying that events shorter than 200km are easy. Just that they aren't really "long" so IMO have no place in a significant "long" distance cycling award.
But hey, if people like to do it and it gets people cycling, that's no bad thing and still a worthy achievement.


I don't agee with adding AAA points to the fixed wheel challenge either. Fixed wheelers are compared with fixed wheelers in that award, just as trikes are compared with trikes in the trike award. How come trikes don't get extra points for hills? It's still harder to ride a hilly 200 on a trike than it is to ride a flat 200 on a trike. It's only fixers who get extra points for hills. Why do they especially encourage fixers to do hilly rides? ???

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #459 on: 07 November, 2011, 09:50:03 pm »
What do you mean by "Short Rides" Peter?. Surely "Short Rides" are contraindicated in a Long Distance association, no matter how hard?

It's a tricky thing - in a club that's all about distance - having an award that's all about hilliness.


I agree. IMO points should only be awarded for 200km+ events accross the board. I'm not saying that events shorter than 200km are easy. Just that they aren't really "long" so IMO have no place in a significant "long" distance cycling award.
But hey, if people like to do it and it gets people cycling, that's no bad thing and still a worthy achievement.


I don't agee with adding AAA points to the fixed wheel challenge either. Fixed wheelers are compared with fixed wheelers in that award, just as trikes are compared with trikes in the trike award. How come trikes don't get extra points for hills? It's still harder to ride a hilly 200 on a trike than it is to ride a flat 200 on a trike. It's only fixers who get extra points for hills. Why do they especially encourage fixers to do hilly rides? ???

I agree. I don't think fixers should get points for 100km, either. Not that I don't do <200k rides, I do, but I don't think there should be some kind of bonus just 'cause you've chosen to dispense with a freewheel. The minimum points scoring long distance should be the same whatever you ride.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #460 on: 07 November, 2011, 10:02:46 pm »
Even if you don't give a stuff about AAA you will be deemed to have cheated if you deviate from the route. Is this fair?

I may be missing something subtle, but I don't see where it says that the route for AAA events is mandated? 

It isn't.  You can avoid some of the hills on the Cambrian series, for example, where the route is not mandated.  However, given the small number of roads, in most cases you'd be adding 25km+ to avoid a few hundred metres of ascent.  Like getting on a train to shorten a stage on a permanent, the only person being short changed is the rider.

You can get from Hay to Llandrindod by quite a flat route or you can go via the aptly named Painscastle, Hundred House, and Gilwern Hill.  One takes you through valley scenery you have probably seen on half a dozen rides and some busy main roads, the other takes you through some of the most excruciatingly beautiful scenery in Wales and the occasional tractor.  IMO you pays the money - you have the right to make the choice.
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

frankly frankie

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #461 on: 07 November, 2011, 11:19:11 pm »
An award for the time poor to aim for?

AAA has morphed several times over the years - but - originally, it was very much touted as an 'alternative' award that might interest riders who weren't interested (for whatever reason) in 'long distances' SR etc.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Manotea

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #462 on: 08 November, 2011, 12:09:38 am »
I don't agee with adding AAA points to the fixed wheel challenge either. Fixed wheelers are compared with fixed wheelers in that award, just as trikes are compared with trikes in the trike award. How come trikes don't get extra points for hills? It's still harder to ride a hilly 200 on a trike than it is to ride a flat 200 on a trike. It's only fixers who get extra points for hills. Why do they especially encourage fixers to do hilly rides? ???

I'm coming at this from a different direction, in suggesting there is a case for recognising route difficulty - a Welsh 600 involving the Brecon Beacons and Snowdonia is always going to be tougher than a ride round East Anglia - and this could possibly should apply for all disciplines; however (and it's a big 'however') the new AAA tariff means that (for FWC purposes) there are more points to be had for climbing a hill then for riding the distance. For example, under the old AAA tariff, the BCM600 2004 was 6+2.5AAA (IIRC) which seems fair enough, however the new tariff it is 6+8.25AAA. Add in some well known routes which fall short of AAAdom and you get some very anomalous situations. For example, The Dean 300 has 4AAA attached whereas The Rural South and the Wiltshire Cycle Way - both challenging rides which involve almost as much climbing - have none. It just seems wrong.

It's not clear what the way forward here is. Return to the old AA tariff? Have a special formula for converting AAA points into 'discipline (!) points? Do away with AAA points for 'discipline' competitions? It may be there is no right answer.

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #463 on: 08 November, 2011, 12:26:19 am »
Personally, I'd just go by total amount of climbing for the whole event, which is what I think the very first AAA was measured by. The more altitude gain, the more altitude points. Over time this was distorted becasue some events with more altitude gain were percieved by many, the majority even, to be easier than events with less altitude gain, mainly because the event with less altitude gain did it all in one go, where the higher altitude gaining event was mildly hilly throughout.
Plus, I would have a minimum amount of climb for AAA points regardless of distance, which would be pretty low. Even long and relatively flat events like LEL would have maybe just a few AAA points, so that would encourage long distance cycling. But obviously, someone going for AAA points would be doing longer and hilly rides like Maniac Grimpeur or just more long hilly rides.
I don't hold much sympathy with the argument that some events with less altitude gain are harder than other events with more altitude gain myself. Some events are harder than others and that's how it is. Maybe we sould have a headwind award too? (and I bet I'd have the record for that! >:( ;))
Anyway, it's all been said and done in AGMs past and the votes were cast and won which leaves us where we are now.

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #464 on: 08 November, 2011, 12:27:54 am »
I agree. I don't think fixers should get points for 100km, either. Not that I don't do <200k rides, I do, but I don't think there should be some kind of bonus just 'cause you've chosen to dispense with a freewheel. The minimum points scoring long distance should be the same whatever you ride.

Oh yes, that too. Forgot that 100k rides count for FWC. I don't ride them that often, less than 1 a year.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: AAA Points
« Reply #465 on: 08 November, 2011, 12:54:15 am »
Maybe we sould have a headwind award too?

Headwinds come and go, as does the rain and shine. The Hills are always with us. Maybe instead of a 50% rule, Calendar events should score double, because you have to ride them on the allotted date regardless (unless of course you take one look out of the window and say 'bugger this for a game of soldiers, I'm going back to bed!').

I agree. I don't think fixers should get points for 100km, either. Not that I don't do <200k rides, I do, but I don't think there should be some kind of bonus just 'cause you've chosen to dispense with a freewheel. The minimum points scoring long distance should be the same whatever you ride.

Oh yes, that too. Forgot that 100k rides count for FWC. I don't ride them that often, less than 1 a year.

As it happens, my local 100km grimpeurs make perfect 200km DIYs from home!

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #466 on: 08 November, 2011, 08:47:04 am »
I got my first AAA in March. My first fixed audax March 2010. Yes it's daunting. But, erm, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HARD.
Isn't that the point? No one is forcing us to do this.
Making it 'easier' to rack up points belittles the achievement.

Hummers

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #467 on: 08 November, 2011, 09:09:07 am »
I got my first AAA in March. My first fixed audax March 2010. Yes it's daunting. But, erm, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HARD.

Actually, it's supposed to be fun.

H


Re: AAA Points
« Reply #468 on: 08 November, 2011, 09:25:00 am »
Now Mr H, you've got a bit of a reputation. But that? That's just crazy talk!

Chris N

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #469 on: 08 November, 2011, 09:25:17 am »
I got my first AAA in March. My first fixed audax March 2010. Yes it's daunting. But, erm, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HARD.

Actually, it's supposed to be fun.

H

Absolutely.

I suspect some of us forget how daunting getting the first FWC or AAA points are.  I can remember agonising over my first AAA event (Cheddar Gorge 300) and likewise my first fixed audax (World of Water 200).  I've yet to do my first fixed AAA.  Having 100km events will encourage me to take this "small" step. 

Totally agree with this too.  My first fixed audax was a hilly 150, and my first fixed AAA a 100 a few months later.  I was bricking it before, but the sense of achievement once you're done is amazing.

Manotea

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #470 on: 08 November, 2011, 10:22:06 am »
One can load as many AAA points on a ride as you like but it will not actually make the hills any smaller. FBOAB is almost right though except what she meant to say is that, "it's meant to be HARDer.

Anyway, isn't the motto, "Like fun, only different"?

mattc

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Re: AAA Points
« Reply #471 on: 08 November, 2011, 10:28:46 am »
(I'm a bit surprised that chris & hummers think hard things are less fun, but anyway ... )

I suspect some of us forget how daunting getting the first FWC or AAA points are.  I can remember agonising over my first AAA event (Cheddar Gorge 300) and likewise my first fixed audax (World of Water 200).  I've yet to do my first fixed AAA.  Having 100km events will encourage me to take this "small" step. 

Totally agree with this too.  My first fixed audax was a hilly 150, and my first fixed AAA a 100 a few months later.  I was bricking it before, but the sense of achievement once you're done is amazing.
If the short AAA events are there as a stepping stone, giving the trophy to someone averaging 70km seems a bit odd.
Has never ridden RAAM
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Chris N

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #472 on: 08 November, 2011, 10:56:22 am »
I'm a bit surprised that chris & hummers think hard things are less fun

I didn't say that, and I don't think Hummers did either.

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: AAA Points
« Reply #473 on: 08 November, 2011, 11:24:05 am »
I'm a bit surprised that chris & hummers think hard things are less fun

I didn't say that, and I don't think Hummers did either.

Correct.

Oh hold on, this is a MattC post......  ;)

H

Lovely Horse

Re: AAA Points
« Reply #474 on: 08 November, 2011, 12:57:47 pm »
One can load as many AAA points on a ride as you like but it will not actually make the hills any smaller.

But it gets you in the right frame of mind, I find. 

Two identical rides, one with and one without AAA.  The former I'll come out the back end thinking "that wasn't as tough as I thought it was going to be" and the other "that was sooooo unfair,  a plague on the organiser for putting me through that".