Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Hot Flatus on 08 January, 2015, 08:25:39 pm
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Just been given an 810.
Any body got any tips?
Eg. Which mount is best? Garmin out front or K-Edge?
What gpx format does one use and can you get them on bikehike?
What maps to use etc
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Just been given an 810.
Any body got any tips?
Eg. Which mount is best? Garmin out front or K-Edge?
What gpx format does one use and can you get them on bikehike?
What maps to use etc
TCX files from RideWithGPS work well for me on my 800 -- I delete all the auto-generated cue points and add my own so I don't accidentally ride past controls.
I have the Garmin Outfront, which works really well. The only issue I have, which I think they resolved with the new 1000, is that you can't easily fit a standard USB cable for charging while it's mounted -- I had to get a StarTech left-angle mini USB cable from Amazon (the socket's upside down, so a right-angle would go the wrong way).
I got the 800 with the OS maps, so I have no experience of getting other maps on there, but it can be done.
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Navigation tips: http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/
Only had our 810 a week (after the 705 finally gave up and leaped to its death on the last half hour of a 200km) so not found our ideal navigation setup yet, but verified the default of auto-rerouting does not work well if you really want to follow all of the planned route
If you're into Strava, setup the Bluetooth sync to Garmin connect via their Smartphone app, and then setup auto GC->Strava upload. And enjoy never having to futz with PC cables and upload plugins again.
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Garmin iPhone app is a great idea in theory but it is rather flakey and doesn't always sync with the 810. There have been a few revisions and it's getting better but not quite there yet.
Mine came with UK OS maps and Garmin City Navigator Europe. However, the Openstreetmaps also work (and are free).
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I don't use the O/S maps, despite buying them!!
Far too much detail - would be OK walking, but NOT on a bike !!
Save the money
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Well, for the first week of ownership I was ready to send it back. It couldn't do TBT navigation reliably, and despite various people attempting to tell me that I didn't need TBT, TBT is what I want.
Curiously, Garmin issued two firmware updates over two weeks, and this on a device that is well into its second year. A quick perusal of garmin forum revealed a gathering shitstorm of pissed off users all with the same issues as me.
The second of the two firmware updates (beta) has the thing working as I'd like it. So hooray. It has frozen once (boo) and also seems to reset the trip distance to zero if I turn it off and on again. (The 705 didn't). It might be a setting buried somewhere deep, or it might not, but it is bloody annoying in a long audax where I may want to conserve battery life at control stops.
Other that that, its OK. The display is fine, the touch screen works and the Bluetooth stuff is handy.
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I don't use the O/S maps, despite buying them!!
Far too much detail - would be OK walking, but NOT on a bike !!
Save the money
Yeah I use them but they are pigging nightmare in a city. Looks like I'll be sticking with my 800 for the foreseeable reading the backlog :-\
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I don't use the O/S maps, despite buying them!!
Far too much detail - would be OK walking, but NOT on a bike !!
It's not really detail - more like clutter.
Vector maps designed for GPS use are actually far more detailed than OS 1:50,000, or even 1:25,000. What OS map can give you the phone number of the restaurant/hotel/pub you're heading towards?
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I have an Edge 800 and use tcx I've created on Bikehike. I don't want TBT just a pink line to follow, and I only mark controls as course points (not turns). This enables me to always have distance to the next control on one of my screens. In fact on the map screen I've chosen speed and distance to next course point as the 2 displayed fields.
I did like being able to have 4 fields and the map displayed on my old 705- the 800 can't do this, the max is 2. Having multiple screens of data to swipe through is nice though. Something to keep me entertained in the night ;D
I understand what I am doing isn't what some people are wanting. I became many people's dependable navigation aid on LEL though ;D
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The 800 had its share of known problems though, many of which were reportedly fixed in the 810.
The Etrex 10, 20 & 30 are basically navigation devices and looking at the forum posts for them about TBT problems (or lack of them) they would seem to be pretty stable.
I think that's probably just a case of lower expectations.
Happiness is a negatively-skewed distribution was the title of an article in Scientific American way back around 1970, explaining how the owner of a Morris Minor was always likely to be happier with his lot than the owner of an E-type Jag.
In terms of facilities, the Etrexes are quite limited compared with the 800/810/1000 - smaller screen, no multiple data screens, can't handle TCX or FIT formats - obviously if none of these things matter to you then the E20/30 is a good fit. I'm rather surprised there isn't an E40 by the way, all the other ranges have seen minor updates in the last 6 months or so.
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And the crazy thing about what Frank has just said,
In 2014, the Jaguar F-Type has a Customer Satisfaction Index of 77%; and the Nissan Micra has a CSI of 57%.
PS
In Great Britain only.
Jaguar F-Type 83.4%
Nissan Micra 66.5%
The buying public's expectations have changed.
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And the crazy thing about what Frank has just said,
In 2014, the Jaguar F-Type has a Customer self-Satisfaction Index of 77%; and the Nissan Micra has a CSI of 57%.
PS
In Great Britain only.
Jaguar F-Type 83.4%
Nissan Micra 66.5%
The buying public's expectations have changed.
FTFY ;)
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Having recently swapped from marathon running into long distance cycling, I am planning to abandon my Garmin Forerunner (wrist watch GPS) and buy a Garmin for my bike.
Having ruled out the Garmin 1000 based on its price, would you recommend that I buy the Garmin 800 or 810?
Frankly i am not great at IT, I generally use about 30% of features of any device, and I am really just looking for a straight forward device for audax events, to avoid me getting lost!
Thank you
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Sounds like an Etrex is up your street- I have an 800, I'm semi-OK at IT and it's not easy to work without consulting websites that tell you what to do (easy enough then tbf).
I'd be surprised if I use 10% of what it can do. It was a present (gratefully accepted!) and not really necessary for my purposes.
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I like my 800 for audax. I create my routes on bikehike.co.uk and save them straight to the Garmin (plugged into USB) as .tcx courses. I then simply follow the pink line. This is very simple and you don't run into problems with the device trying to calculate routes for you and messing up. If you go off course it bleeps at you and you can see where the pink line is you need to head back to.
It also has 5 other user configurable screens for a massive range of data you select. I've got screens for heart rate, cadence and other speed and distance data and other screens for gradient % and climbing rate etc. You don't have to use any of these things if you don't want to.
However for audax use- if you opt for a 800 or 810 you will need to work out a way of charging it as you ride. The etrex takes standard AA batteries so some find is easier to manage on long rides. You can even stick lithium batteries in etrexes for longer life. The 800 and 810 have an internal rechargeable battery much like a mobile phone that can last up to 15 hours when it's new. If you keep the backlight on and display the map page constantly it will not last that long though. It tends to be ok for a 200k but not for a 300k or above. When the device ages the battery time starts to diminish. A lot of us have external battery packs we connect the device to for recharging. You would need to buy a mini USB cable with a 90 degree end so it can be plugged in whilst you ride too.
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There are some good deals on GPSmap 62 units at the mo.
With OSM mapping, that should be the jobbie.
PS, I have a couple of genuine Garmin mounts for it, which are unused and still in their packaging,,, ;)
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Thank you for your responses, so if i buy the basic Edge 810, it seems that I get the Garmin 810 plus Bike mount, USB cable, UK AC charger and Manual, is there anything else which I need to get started?
Thanks
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Maps.
Go Garmin City navigator, or get an sd card and download Open Street Map
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I've been having difficulty getting TBT (turn by turn) directions on my 810 recently.
I just discovered something 'new' (at least to me).
I was deleting a couple of courses from last weekend and after I had done so I noticed in the bottom right hand corner of the courses menu a few white lines a bit like a representation of a tiny page, so I clicktouched it and got another menu of options including
Course Guidance with an 'ENABLE' button, which was not enabled, so I did so !!
I'll report back if that cures it !!!!!
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It will do.
I had to do the same after a firmware upgrade
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... it seems that I get the Garmin 810 plus Bike mount, USB cable,...
I'm not an Edge user but I've often read that people prefer the 3rd-party Edge bike mounts to the one supplied in the box.
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Unless you want an 'out front' style of mount, I can't imagine any reason to use a 3-rd party mount.
2 came in the box with my 800, and they seem to be 100% secure, and the 1/4 turn mounting is very quick and easy to engage / disengage.
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The 'Pattern part' mounts are OK for nth bike.
Supplying only TWO is an insult to cyclists. >:(
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Don't get an all metal out front mount like the K Edge. They shave a but off the fixed fitting on the Garmin every time you use them.
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The newer versions of the K-Edge mounts have a plastic insert, which should avoid wear on the Garmin.
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I've been having difficulty getting TBT (turn by turn) directions on my 810 recently.
I just discovered something 'new' (at least to me).
I was deleting a couple of courses from last weekend and after I had done so I noticed in the bottom right hand corner of the courses menu a few white lines a bit like a representation of a tiny page, so I clicktouched it and got another menu of options including
Course Guidance with an 'ENABLE' button, which was not enabled, so I did so !!
I'll report back if that cures it !!!!!
(light goes on). Had the same thing, could not work out what the heck was going on trying to follow a course on Saturday - wondered why TBT had stopped. Cant wait to get home to check!
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It's definitely done the trick for me..
Sorry I forgot to report back sooner..
8)
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I have the 810 with microSD-City Navigator NT, (http://www.madison.co.uk/products/cycling/electronics/gps/edge-810-gps-enabled-computer-with-cadence-hrm-microsd-city-navigator-nt/) I confess it sends me around the bend as much as it navigates me around one! The main issue for me is Garmin Connect course planning, it's not cycling specific, sharing routing with runners.
I bought my 810 primarily to enjoy plotting (one of the best bits on a cold wet winter evening planning a tour-ride), then following that plotted route, with that route backed up on my smartphone, reassuring on a two week tour. Sadly that means plotting a route on Garmin Connect. I live in a London Suburb and the Garmin Connnect repeatedly navigates the wrong way down one way streets and roundabouts, when I do finally get a route planned I normally lose turn by turn navigation after about 10 miles! The latter is less of an issue as I am happy to follow a highlighted route without TBT; infact I would like to be able to select that as an option on occasion as I dare say it would reduce battery usage plus often I don't need TBT. At RRP £479.99 (as it was at the time, I bought it when it first came out) including mapping I expected GC route planning and the 810 to be far far better than it is to be honest.
GC route planning should be cycling specific, no excuses, it should be; they offer that on Garmin Basecamp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLSv96Grpg) so I can't see why they can't/don't on Garmin Connect. This is especially frustrating as Garmin promote the fact that you can sync and store the courses on your Smartphone. The trouble is that requires the courses to actually be on GC, seeing as everyone I know doesn't use GC course planning, then that is a next to useless feature, that we as the consumer have invested in, only for it to not work anywhere near as well as it should.
So what is the best way to add a route? Well we all have our favourites, www.mapmyride.com, www.bikeroutetoaster.com, www.bikehike.co.uk, www.ridewithgps.com and www.gpsies.com are all quite popular and all have their quirks. Personally if it's a quiet country side course with few roundabouts then I will still use Garmin Connect to create a course then sync that to the 810 via my smartphone app, handy if I haven't got the USB lead, which is often the case if as I have a 100 mile commute, which I drive, but will often put the bike in the back of the car and do a quick loop somewhere on the way home.
I don't like Garmin Connect for urban riding though as although you can select 'Google Maps' you can't zoom in far enough to see the indicated one way streets and I've learned that effectively going 'off course' often confuses the 810, it can then lose TBT Navigation, both arrows and text, the latter freezing where it stopped working. For urban riding I prefer www.mapmyride.com and www.ridewithgps.com then exporting adding via the' new files folder', both enable easy editing either during composition or once created, plus you can toggle between walking-cycling-driving, which can be handy if you want to walk over a footbridge for example. Those two are my choices, I normally use www.ridewithgps.com purely because the file name seems to upload better the 810, www.mapmyride.com course names seem to get scrambled when I view them on the device, although the course itself is OK.
If you want to import a course into GC that you created on another site, which is done via the 'Activities' page, it can be problematic, you will see the import normally fails even though the exported file from that site appears to be correct, GC seems to reject it. However there is a site called www.gpsies.com that will convert the data to what Garmin Connect will accept for the manual upload. So, via their 'Convert' (http://www.gpsies.com/convert.do) page you 'choose' the '.gpx' file you've exported and saved from another site, select 'convert' to a 'GPX Track', when converted this will then load into Garmin Connect; (via the import link on the 'Activities' page) note it uploads it as an 'Activity' that you then save as a 'Course'. Note as you will read below this can still be problematic as it sometimes doesn't upload as you have planned, so proofread the route before using to make sure it's been uploaded exactly as created.
Not that the smartphone apps seem to be syncing great at the moment, many, myself included have had 'sync' failures when trying to upload a route. I deleted app and re installed via Googleplay on phone and it didn't work, so I unistalled again, cleaned phoned with CCleaner (https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner-android), then reinstalled app via Garmin site by syncing laptop with phone; works now....
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Ever get the feeling that navigation is an afterthought on Garmin bike GPS units?
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Ever get the feeling that navigation is an afterthought on Garmin bike GPS units?
Very much so, but for the devices like the 810 that require courses on GC, then in short; it shouldn't be.
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I wouldn't dream of plotting a route on Garmin Connect.
Bikehike is my favourite site. I just create the route, add any controls as course points, then send it straight to my Edge 800 as a .tcx
I then load this and ride to the line, no turn directions or anything annoying. By having only controls marked on the route you can set one of your data fields as distance to the next point- this means I always know exactly how far I am from the nearest control and to the end :)
There is nothing to go wrong with this method since no calculations are going on. When approaching a junction I just glance down to check which road I need, I really don't need a bleep and arrow when I can see a map right in front of my face. Each to their own and all that- but when you're touring and want a really reliable and incredibly easy system it's definitely worth giving this a go if you're having any issues.
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Yeah yeah we know that ::-) ;D
Unfortunately you can't back up your routes on bikehike, and download them to a mobile phone via 3g/4g, which is the whole point of Paul's post. You can save them on Garmin Connect and download them via mobile data or wireless. It is quite a useful feature, but he is bemoaning the issues with plotting routes on Garmin Connect.
Bikehike is great, as it is fast and easy, and the OS map pane is highly useful....but you can't upload routes to a cloud. You used to be able to.
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Yeah yeah we know that ::-) ;D
Unfortunately you can't back up your routes on bikehike, and download them to a mobile phone via 3g/4g, which is the whole point of Paul's post. You can save them on Garmin Connect and download them via mobile data or wireless. It is quite a useful feature, but he is bemoaning the issues with plotting routes on Garmin Connect.
Bikehike is great, as it is fast and easy, and the OS map pane is highly useful....but you can't upload routes to a cloud. You used to be able to.
I was responding to Paul asking which method we use and why :D
I generally download a backup of routes I create to the laptop at the same time as sending to the Garmin. Is there any reason why you can't send these to Dropbox? I don't know how the Garmin wireless interface works since I have the 800 which can't do that.
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Ever get the feeling that navigation is an afterthought on Garmin bike GPS units?
That feeling celebrates its tenth birthday this year.
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Ever get the feeling that navigation is an afterthought on Garmin bike GPS units?
That feeling celebrates its tenth birthday this year.
I once had a Garmin car Satnav, I got the feeling that navigation wasn't it's primary function even though it didn't actually have any other function ....
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Actually, to be fair, my 705 worked near-flawlessly. I only remember it crashing once in years of use.
I think the 800 series is trying to appeal to geargeeks who want the latest, flashest 'training aid', without necessarily wanting to use its functions.
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Yeah yeah we know that ::-) ;D
Unfortunately you can't back up your routes on bikehike, and download them to a mobile phone via 3g/4g, which is the whole point of Paul's post. You can save them on Garmin Connect and download them via mobile data or wireless. It is quite a useful feature, but he is bemoaning the issues with plotting routes on Garmin Connect.
Bikehike is great, as it is fast and easy, and the OS map pane is highly useful....but you can't upload routes to a cloud. You used to be able to.
I was responding to Paul asking which method we use and why :D
I generally download a backup of routes I create to the laptop at the same time as sending to the Garmin. Is there any reason why you can't send these to Dropbox? I don't know how the Garmin wireless interface works since I have the 800 which can't do that.
It bluetooths as well. Certainly on my phone, you cant transfer from dropbox into the garmin as the phone wont recognise the garmin as a drive.
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...Bikehike is my favourite site. ....
I actually like www.bikehike.co.uk as well, especially as you get two maps to view, plotting a route is very good although I find editing it once created not quite as easy as I do with www.ridewithgps.com. I dare say www.bikehike.co.uk course editing is quite good as well, it' just that in my few trial goes of each I personally got on better with www.ridewithgps.com.
In any event GC Course planning should be at least as good as these free websites, yes I realise that Garmin are not really focusing on software, but when their systems are set up focused on being used with their software to use them to their potential; then really Garmin, your software should be better.
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After five years of 705 ownership, same as it ever was: routing, whichever web site you use and whichever routing method, is more problematic than it should be. Only last Saturday, I went to Winchester to meet up for a group ride, plotted a course on bikehike. Which was fine for a few miles (the ones I knew well anyway...) until it decided I should make a turn into a field. Not a field with a marked cycle path (a Sustrans speciality), just a field, with a hedge...I decided to ignore it and instead followed road signs to Winchester, for some reason that got me there OK. Then there was the ride I did to Cardiff a couple of years back, when OSM routing thought Savernake Forest was a good way northwest (yes, if you like big chunks of gravel, not if you're on 25mm tyres), then an extensive tour of bridle paths, private roads....Basic rule of thumb: if the Garmin says 'this way' and 'that way' is known to you/looks more sensible/not into a hedge, go that way.
Garmin has the ongoing policy of using end users as beta test customers (every new Edge has had software issues out of the box) , producing a few revisions of software that never seem to fix all the issues, and then they just stop bothering and create a newfangled bit of kit that creates more bugs of its own. The likes of Magellan (aka Mio), Bryton et al seem little better. Garmin are the leader in the bike GPS market because they make the least worst products, not the best. I'm on my third 705 as the USB ports on the previous two stopped connecting to computers.....
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All these issues seem to be really alien to me with my 810. I have TBT off as I hate it. Also course correction is off as the purple line is just fine. But that just me ;D
When I start a route by selecting it through courses, it asks if I want to navigate to the beginning of the route. I ALWAYS say no. and therefore it never course corrects.
I do have one problem: My cadence sensor never EVER seems to get picked up. It'll pick up other people's sensors fine. Changed batteries and did a full discharge/recharge etc. Beyond me.
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All these issues seem to be really alien to me with my 810. I have TBT off as I hate it. Also course correction is off as the purple line is just fine. But that just me ;D
When I start a route by selecting it through courses, it asks if I want to navigate to the beginning of the route. I ALWAYS say no. and therefore it never course corrects.
I do have one problem: My cadence sensor never EVER seems to get picked up. It'll pick up other people's sensors fine. Changed batteries and did a full discharge/recharge etc. Beyond me.
Is the sensor definitely picking up it's magnet signal? (Press the button and check you get red and green flashing lights with each pedal rev and rear wheel rev on a work stand). It can also be worth swapping the ugly crank sensor magnet for a neat little round neodymium magnet stuck to the inside of the pedal bolt then line the cad sensor up with that- the magnet is stronger and more reliable as well as being hidden from view.
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jonathan notp has just bought a garmin 810 :o. he has no idea how to use it and has asked me . this is a case of the blind leading the blind ::-) . I did recommend the satmap 10 which at least I understand . I can follow the quick start instruction's but after that I am lost . any advice /tips gratefully received :)
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Don't be too hasty, oranj.
I had the same experience and reaction as you. Then I installed the latest beta firmware (link on Garmin 810 forum) and the thing gas worked brilliantly.
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I tried the 810 and sent it back, the 800 is much better to use.
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I've been running v3.60, the latest version of the software, all along.
Version 4.20 is now available.
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After my 4th Edge 500 in as many years died the other day, Garmin decided to give me an 810...
I loaded it with maps from (url=http://somewhere), but found them to be faaarrr too detailed/cluttered to be of much cycling use, so binned it off for the ones from here - http://www.scarletfire.co.uk/a-quick-guide-to-free-osm-maps-for-garmin-gps-devices/
Took it for a spin round inner Northumberland yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised by it all.
Quick question re: those silicone cases. Worth buying from a rain/clumsiness POV? This one feels more computerry and delicate than the 500.
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I bought a bright blue case for a couple of quid. More to remind me to remove the unit at cafe stops more than anything else
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I bought a bright blue case for a couple of quid. More to remind me to remove the unit at cafe stops more than anything else
On the subject of cases - I loaned my Garmin Edge 200 to a friend for our recent club tour (I used the Touring) but not before fitting it with a neon pink silicone case to make sure she remembered it was on the bike!
Rob
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I updated my firmware this week but haven't used it yet.
I used it a week ago on blacksheep's 200. I used his tcx file and for some reason it didn't give me TBT routing.
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I don't know how Mark creates his but they are sometimes a bit idiosyncratic. Because he usually supplies them as a separate file per stage I have to merge them into one (can't be arsed with loading up a new file every 50k.)
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I rode the Blacksheep 200 last weekend as well. I wanted to give my new touring a thorough test. Several times it nearly got itself thrown over a hedge as it misbehaved all the way round. It froze, it lost its way (kept telling me to make a "U" turn), it shutdown and at odd times stopped giving me TBT instructions. The unit has now been sent back for a refund.
I hadn't tried following the pink (or purple) line as I wanted TBT, maybe I should have. I still want a navigation aid so maybe an 810 or maybe an Etrex.
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I've used GPS in cars, motorbikes and bicycles and I find it's much easier to follow a line on the screen then written or spoken instructions. A quick glance on the screen tells you if you're on the right road or not.
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Yes, but with TBT you get both.
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Yes, but with TBT you get both.
That's the problem - too much information 😱
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No, you get a line to follow but you also get an audible warning of approaching turns and an exploded view of the junction
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Before I go upstairs and have a play (...), is there a way to have both 'average moving speed' and 'average overall speed'?
Current way is to just turn autopause off so I have my 'audax' speed.
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Not both...
On a day when I want to know, I have a box set to 'average speed' and I then make any proper stop a complete separate lap, so I have a record via the lap page of the entire time stopped at controls, and then I can then peruse my laps and deduct the time stopped, and recalculate for a rough moving speed.....
Or have my 800 running on a different setting as well, which is NOT going to happen....
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does anyone else have a problem with a downloaded gpx file not appearing in "courses" after it's been dragged into new files (several times)?? I use a mac and have a new 810 and it's pretty hit or miss as to whether the route gets into courses or not. Can't work out what I'm doing wrong!
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Using a Mac, probably ;)
The only difficulties I've encountered with Garmin is when using a Mac.
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yes DR i think you're right. Just did it first time on the ancient PC. Thanks!