Proper track wheels

[bikenrrd]

Inspired by the Olympics (!) I'm going to start track racing next year at the outdoor track in Reading and attend the training sessions over winter.

I've got a choice of suitable frames for this: a 1970s Carlton road frame with horizontal dropouts or a similar Holdsworth - I'll decide which to use based on geometry.  I've got all the other bits as well, from the spares box.

I've got a pair of On-one hubs in 36 holes which I plan on building into some rims.  So a couple of questions:

1) Tubs or clinchers?  I'll have to cycle to the train and from the train to the track until I pass my test.  I'll be fitting a front brake with a hinged clamp so I can take it off when I get to the track.

2) Is there any benefit to an aero or semi-aero rim, bearing in mind I'll have 36 spokes.

3) Gear ratio - is 81" enough?

Thanks!  Anyone who has any experience in general outdoor track riding please chip in.  I've ridden Newport track before and was a bit terrified on top of the bank but the Reading track looks nice and shallow.

[Martin109]

You state 'Proper Track Wheels', which would usually involve track hubs, which do not have the same degree of sealing against water ingress as road hubs, so if you're going to use an open-air track like Palmer Park, you may need to go for a fixed hub designed for road riding, unless you're just not going to ride in the wet.  That may not produce the standard track chainline of 42mm (or is it 43mm?).

[giropaul]

For Reading tubs or clinchers would be fine. Given that you're riding there I'd personally go for clinchers - otherwise a p...re on your way would waste an evening (to glue tubs on for the track is a lengthy job - not to be done at the roadside). If you end up on an indoor track tubs will be better and safer, but that's some time off I guess.

Your road frames would not be acceptable at Manchester , Newport etc, but I'd check with Reading; as you don't need as high a bracket for an outdoor, less steep track.

81" sounds low. Typical track league gear for an outdoor track might be 86" to 90". Maybe 81" will be fine for winter training, and then take advice from other more experienced riders.

[clarion]

On a slight tangent, is there anywhere on the web listed the requirements for track bikes to suit the various tracks?

[bikenrrd]

Thanks all, so far.  The hubs I have are the On-one high flange which have sealed cartridge bearings.  I commuted for 3 years on these in all weathers and I don't even think I need to replace the bearings but I'm going to check before I build the wheel.

Reading has events with normal road bikes, so I think I should be fine on a road fixed.  I will check with the people who run Reading Velodrome Racing, though.  I'll be picking the frame with the highest BB, shortest chainstays and steepest seat and head angle.

So, clinchers sound like the way forwards.  Any advantage to having an aero rim?

I'm just a bit too far away from Manchester, Newport or the East End of London to make having a proper track bike viable.  However, Reading is only 20 minutes on the train.

[Tewdric]

On a slight tangent, is there anywhere on the web listed the requirements for track bikes to suit the various tracks?

http://www2.nationalcyclingcentre.com/documents/Track%20bike%20specification.pdf

Newport is a bit more laid back but still insist on the bb height IME.

[rogerzilla]

1) Tubs or clinchers?  I'll have to cycle to the train and from the train to the track until I pass my test.  I'll be fitting a front brake with a hinged clamp so I can take it off when I get to the track.

2) Is there any benefit to an aero or semi-aero rim, bearing in mind I'll have 36 spokes.

3) Gear ratio - is 81" enough?

1. Clinchers.  Tubs are barely faster these days and far too much of a PITA unless you have your own mechanic like the pros.

2. No.

3. No.  48 x 15 is a normal sort of gear, so about 86".  You can still ride this on the road provided there are no really long hills, although it will be miserable into a headwind.  I used to ride a 92" gear to the start of a TT, and it was fine, even with a steep road bridge.

If you're going to cycle to the track you'll also need to remove the brake lever when you get there, since it will be considered unsafe.  Check the clamp will slide over the bar tape (even if you only tape the drops).  This may mean Benotto tape 

[bikenrrd]

If you're going to cycle to the track you'll also need to remove the brake lever when you get there, since it will be considered unsafe.  Check the clamp will slide over the bar tape (even if you only tape the drops).  This may mean Benotto tape 

I'm going to use a goldfinger BMX lever in true fixie poser style.  Then, seeing as the clamp is hinged, I can take it off and just take the brake off the fork.  Then I can use cork tape rather than some torture device in bar tape form!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It is a track bike, no potholes to worry about and you are only on the bike for a few minutes at a time. Looking for comfort is a bit pointless.

[rogerzilla]

If you're going to cycle to the track you'll also need to remove the brake lever when you get there, since it will be considered unsafe.  Check the clamp will slide over the bar tape (even if you only tape the drops).  This may mean Benotto tape 

I'm going to use a goldfinger BMX lever in true fixie poser style.  Then, seeing as the clamp is hinged, I can take it off and just take the brake off the fork.  Then I can use cork tape rather than some torture device in bar tape form!

Ah - I interpreted your OP as having a hinged brake, not a brake lever (I was thinking of one of those clamp-on brakes for undrilled track forks).

[bikenrrd]

Cork tape is still nice.

Anyway, I just have to choose some rims.  They have to be silver, 36 hole and available in the UK or EU.

Current possibilities: Mavic Open Sport, Mavic Open Pro (more expensive and maybe not as laterally rigid?), Rigida Flyer (cheap! but are they cheap rubbish?).  Any other possibilities?  Sub 500 grams would be nice.

I was going to use CXP33s but Mavic seem to have stopped doing them in silver, for some reason.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Just pick the lightest. 36 hole track wheels are going to be stiff.

[Rhys W]

Current possibilities: Mavic Open Sport, Mavic Open Pro (more expensive and maybe not as laterally rigid?), Rigida Flyer (cheap! but are they cheap rubbish?).  Any other possibilities?  Sub 500 grams would be nice.

Ambrosio Excellence or Evolution.

[Jakob]

Tubs are not that big a deal to deal with. Puncture resistance in modern tubs is really good and with some tire sealant, it's really a non-issue.
You used to be able to pick up tub-rims cheap on ebay...not sure if that's still the case.

Gearing: 86" to start, unless you're a spinner.

[rogerzilla]

The problem with tubs, besides the hassle, is that cheap (as in affordable by mere mortals) tubs don't roll as well as clinchers for the same price.  Dugast silk tubs roll better than clinchers, but they cost £85 each. 

Fixing an on-road puncture with tubs is done one of two ways:

1. If using tub tape, carry tub tape and use that

2. If using shellac (which you would if the tubs were good ones), just put the replacement tub on the rim, inflate and the residual tackiness of the shellac should work as a get-you-there measure.

In both cases you have to carry a whole spare tub, obviously.

[giropaul]

The problem with tubs, besides the hassle, is that cheap (as in affordable by mere mortals) tubs don't roll as well as clinchers for the same price.  Dugast silk tubs roll better than clinchers, but they cost £85 each. 

Fixing an on-road puncture with tubs is done one of two ways:

1. If using tub tape, carry tub tape and use that

2. If using shellac (which you would if the tubs were good ones), just put the replacement tub on the rim, inflate and the residual tackiness of the shellac should work as a get-you-there measure.

BUT - you wouldn't (I trust) ever ride track with a tub that wasn't properly glued on - and that takes time and patience. Shellac has now been replaced by "hi-Tec" glues, but these take time to cure of course.

PS Dugast silks for concrete/asphalt, cottons for boards (and they are more than £85 now!)

In both cases you have to carry a whole spare tub, obviously.

[bikenrrd]

Well, the frames arrived from my Grandad's secret stash of vintage bike bits, along with some very nice and light tubular wheels.  Campag front hub and Zeus rear with Fiamme rims.  So I'm going to rebuild them with new spokes and see how they go.

[giropaul]

Nothing wrong with Fiamme rims - they did a track and a road version, but either is fine for the track.

Are the hubs track ones? You may need to do a bit of faffing and fettling as track hubs and road ends are different widths. The same with chain line. There's plenty of advice on this sort of thing available on here though!

[rogerzilla]

Might be lucky; 5-speed road frames and some track hubs are both 120mm.  However, older track hubs might be 110mm.

Road frames designed for Sturmey-Archer hubs are usually about 112mm although SA did make a few hubs with longer axles (6 1/4") for 120mm dropouts.  Given the vintage of bikenrrd's usual stuff, a frame spaced for SA is quite likely.

[bikenrrd]

Both the hubs and frame are 120mm wide so fit well.  The rear hub is single sided and they both bizarrely have QRs, so I'd have to use the Halo hex key skewers.
I received another set of hubs as well, built into 27 x 1 1/4 rims, so I have a choice of 3 pairs of hubs!  This is all barely used or NOS stuff, which I got along with a Carlton Competition frame, Ron Kitching frame, Holdsworth frame (a bit ratty) and NOS Shimano 600 Arabesque front, rear mech and shifters!

And Roger - there are a couple of Sturmey Archer rear wheels as well.  Proper ratty, but I can clean the filth off and see what they are if you're interested?

[FatBloke]

If you can afford it, for success on the track see if you can get hold of some "really round" wheels,  as explained by Dave Brailsford!!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dDJMrBP7QNY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dDJMrBP7QNY&rel=1</a>

[bikenrrd]

Doh! The sprint rims are on a hub for a 5 speed block.  No lockring thread and the wheel being dished should have given it away!

[rogerzilla]

Both the hubs and frame are 120mm wide so fit well.  The rear hub is single sided and they both bizarrely have QRs, so I'd have to use the Halo hex key skewers.
I received another set of hubs as well, built into 27 x 1 1/4 rims, so I have a choice of 3 pairs of hubs!  This is all barely used or NOS stuff, which I got along with a Carlton Competition frame, Ron Kitching frame, Holdsworth frame (a bit ratty) and NOS Shimano 600 Arabesque front, rear mech and shifters!

And Roger - there are a couple of Sturmey Archer rear wheels as well.  Proper ratty, but I can clean the filth off and see what they are if you're interested?

I'm always interested in anything that isn't an AW.  Even an FW would be good, since mine has mismatched springs and therefore Doesn't Work.