Base training

[rob]

Peaking for July.   What could that be ?

Not the TCR!

Think I need to peak Jun/Jul.  Not only do you have to pick events now, you also have to build in the probability of them actually happening.

[simonp]

Peaking for July.   What could that be ?

Not the TCR!

Think I need to peak Jun/Jul.  Not only do you have to pick events now, you also have to build in the probability of them actually happening.

Every change of the LeJoG Audax not happening. But if I got to say 275W FTP by the target date, I'd then be wondering where I could be in 2022.

[rob]

Peaking for July.   What could that be ?

Not the TCR!

Think I need to peak Jun/Jul.  Not only do you have to pick events now, you also have to build in the probability of them actually happening.

Every change of the LeJoG Audax not happening. But if I got to say 275W FTP by the target date, I'd then be wondering where I could be in 2022.

Yebbut none of us are getting any younger.  At 48 next year I think it'll be my last crack at racing, although I have thoughts of a year off and then racing again in the 50-54 category.  Whilst I have had some level of success at what I've been doing for the last few years it's fair to say that I don't enjoy the training.

As far as next year goes I'll look at longer TTs again.   If this year is anything to go by there is more chance of them happening.   I'll keep at Audax and am targeting a couple of more low key events.

[Karla]

Your last year of racing?  You say that every year 

[Frank9755]

Yebbut none of us are getting any younger.  At 48 next year I think it'll be my last crack at racing, although I have thoughts of a year off and then racing again in the 50-54 category.  Whilst I have had some level of success at what I've been doing for the last few years it's fair to say that I don't enjoy the training.

As far as next year goes I'll look at longer TTs again.   If this year is anything to go by there is more chance of them happening.   I'll keep at Audax and am targeting a couple of more low key events.

The problem with not racing, as I have found, is that losing those threshold workouts really does impact your fitness.  I've hardly raced since 2015 (when I was 48) and I've never been able to get back to the same level.  Of course you can replace it by a structured training programme but I've found it has never quite had the same effect.

I never minded the training when I was racing, as I didn't do any!  I do sometimes wish I had, and started 10 years earlier - but too late  to worry about that now.

[rob]

Yebbut none of us are getting any younger.  At 48 next year I think it'll be my last crack at racing, although I have thoughts of a year off and then racing again in the 50-54 category.  Whilst I have had some level of success at what I've been doing for the last few years it's fair to say that I don't enjoy the training.

As far as next year goes I'll look at longer TTs again.   If this year is anything to go by there is more chance of them happening.   I'll keep at Audax and am targeting a couple of more low key events.

The problem with not racing, as I have found, is that losing those threshold workouts really does impact your fitness.  I've hardly raced since 2015 (when I was 48) and I've never been able to get back to the same level.  Of course you can replace it by a structured training programme but I've found it has never quite had the same effect.

I never minded the training when I was racing, as I didn't do any!  I do sometimes wish I had, and started 10 years earlier - but too late  to worry about that now.

I get a sense that I probably didn't make the best of my late 20s and 30s, but I suspect that it would have been too hard to get the structure I needed back then.   If I don't manage to get any better then it's still no bad thing.   There are plenty of facets to this sport that can keep the challenges going.   I'll still only be 50 when I attempt my 7th Paris-Brest.

[Frank9755]

I am done with the TR ramp test!

I've done quite a few by now, maybe 10-12 in total, and I've learned at least three ways to cheat on it.  Some of it is down to my turbo and some would probably work on any turbo (I won't say what they are as I don't want to spoil it for others!).
 
Furthermore, I just don't think it works for me as a test.  As an experienced time triallist used to pacing rides, with a pretty good idea where my FTP is, and being relatively untrained in VO2 max, the 20 minute test is far better suited. 

Because I believe both these things, I can't really use it any more as I don't have faith in it. 

I tried to do it yesterday.  Everything calibrated.  Did the test, but it was clear from my heart rate trajectory that I was going to run out of steam well below my previous FTP.  So I stopped a bit short of where I could,  probably 25 W short.  But new FTP was down by 45 W. 

Then I felt regret for stopping short so I thought I'll do it again. I did, but with the lower FTP, it was harder to keep going for longer above threshold.  Stopped a little bit short and result was FTP back up by 1W.

That was a mess so I decided to do it again this morning.  And I decided to do the 20 min test.  This went well.  FTP back up to -4W vs October.  A bit disappointing as I've been doing a bit, but OTOH I had had a two week rest, so maybe about right. 

As well as doing it with the smart trainer I also recorded it on my head unit from my power meter.  Essentially my trainer is overstating my FTP by 12W vs the power meter.  Apparently this is typical for my trainer (TACX Vortex).  I'd not done this before but it's really useful info for outside rides. 

(I don't use PowerMatch as it doesn't work well with my trainer)

When things settle down and they are available again, I'll upgrade my trainer.  Should have done it last year as I am finding the limitations now (although if I know what they are, I guess it is not such an issue).

[DuncanM]

I use Powermatch with my Tacx Bushido Smart. I think that's an older machine than your Vortex, so I'm surprised it's not as effective. Maybe the Bushido was higher in the range than the Vortex and that makes some difference.

I don't think the Ramp test works for trained steady state athletes. It's great for people new to training or new to riding near threshold, and it might work for cyclists who have an all-rounder profile, but I think if you are a diesel who can go hard for ages you are much better off with the 20 minute test.

[L CC]

I agree. Ramp test puts me about 5% lower than 95% of 20 minutes. And even that is a little bit lower than my average power over an hour racing- which includes more peaks and troughs.

[toontra]

That accords with my posts a while ago about the TR ramp test giving too low an FTP compared with actual 1-hour maximal efforts.  As Duncan says, for non-racers and those more concerned with endurance maybe the ramp test doesn't work.

Before I got the Kickr I used to estimate my FTP by riding an hour on the gym trainer at a steady effort.  Old-fashioned I know but it always gave a pretty accurate assessment of my relative fitness at a given time.

[Lightning Phil]

The TR ramp test makes an assumption about where your FTP is in comparison to your VO2 max. If your FTP is closer to VO2 max, then the ramp test will underestimate your FTP.

[zigzag]

did a ramp test this morning, pushed quite hard reaching 185bpm. i find it fairly accurate compared to 20min tests that i've been doing before. fitness back down to 4w/kg, from 4.3w/kg in september (hardly any intensity work since then).

[simonp]

I've found that if anything the ramp test over estimates for me. Maybe partly because from the last few years of rowing, I've developed more short power (a typical on the water race for us would be 750-1000m, so 3-4 minutes). My power profile suggests I do better in the 1-5m range vs longer durations.

I always think my HR is high as I get to around the 15 minute point of the ramp test, and I have to try to put that to the back of my mind and concentrate on just pushing to the end.

[simonp]

Heart held out. 251W

[basset]

I have also found that if I use either the ramp test or any of the other TR tests the ftp is always too high to get beyond base 2 and then I end up losing the will to live .
There is a thread on ftp on the tt  form but my view is it’s only a guide to your training I’m no longer fixated with it and just now estimate it for training purposes.

[simonp]

Whether it’s accurate or not that seems to be my best score on the ramp test - certainly since I got the Neo just over 3 years ago.

[DuncanM]

Heart held out. 251W

Good going, and a good improvement through your program.  Keep it up. 

[simonp]

Heart held out. 251W

Good going, and a good improvement through your program.  Keep it up. 

I felt that the traditional base approach was working, but there's always that doubt at the back of your mind. Especially when you're at 15 minutes into the test, and it is already hard going, and you need to survive another 4 minutes to get to your last FTP.

I have a 3h z2 tonight. 

[Geriatricdolan]

As a non "aero" person, I am quite intrigued by the new "Road bike" National TT championship, which is just down the road. I wonder what the qualifying criteria will be...  very strict like the National 25 or open to all like the Hill Climb National.

Don't think I can do a 60 minute 25 mile... I can probably get close... what do you think, not a chance?

[giropaul]

As a non "aero" person, I am quite intrigued by the new "Road bike" National TT championship, which is just down the road. I wonder what the qualifying criteria will be...  very strict like the National 25 or open to all like the Hill Climb National.

Don't think I can do a 60 minute 25 mile... I can probably get close... what do you think, not a chance?

From what I understand, and following what BMCR (British Masters, what was LVRC) do, the bike should be as required for a road race. Some races add a no aero head fairings as well.
In essence, it means no disc or very deep wheels and no tri-bars.
I’ve no doubt that such a National event would be very popular, and require qualifying times in similar competition.
Look at BMRC events, although it’s mainly road and track racing, there are quite a few time trials, especially until road racing can re-commence.

[Geriatricdolan]

As a non "aero" person, I am quite intrigued by the new "Road bike" National TT championship, which is just down the road. I wonder what the qualifying criteria will be...  very strict like the National 25 or open to all like the Hill Climb National.

Don't think I can do a 60 minute 25 mile... I can probably get close... what do you think, not a chance?

From what I understand, and following what BMCR (British Masters, what was LVRC) do, the bike should be as required for a road race. Some races add a no aero head fairings as well.
In essence, it means no disc or very deep wheels and no tri-bars.
I’ve no doubt that such a National event would be very popular, and require qualifying times in similar competition.
Look at BMRC events, although it’s mainly road and track racing, there are quite a few time trials, especially until road racing can re-commence.

My bike is fully compliant...

As for similar races, I was thinking of entering the Little Mountain TT in the road bike category and maybe another one of the Sigma series (the one in Macclesfield is doable)... of course it all is Covid dependant...

[rob]

As a non "aero" person, I am quite intrigued by the new "Road bike" National TT championship, which is just down the road. I wonder what the qualifying criteria will be...  very strict like the National 25 or open to all like the Hill Climb National.

Don't think I can do a 60 minute 25 mile... I can probably get close... what do you think, not a chance?

This is a bit of anecdata as I don’t do power.  I have read that, if you’re reasonably aero then something like 220w will be you under the hour.   Not entirely sure what you would need to put out on a road bike - 250w ?  Do you have a decent skinsuit/shoes/overshoes ?

[Karla]

This is a bit of anecdata as I don’t do power.  I have read that, if you’re reasonably aero then something like 220w will be you under the hour.

In my last one I did 239* W for a short 56.  That was with a chilly September 8am start on a reasonably quick DC.

*My PM said 235 but that included nearly a minute of pre/post event coasting. 

[L CC]

Feck. I put out almost 220 for an hour when I'm racing on zwift. I should take up this outside malarkey.

It's all about the kilos for the next six months. I'll be fairly satisfied if I keep the same watts.

[Pedal Castro]

This is a bit of anecdata as I don’t do power.  I have read that, if you’re reasonably aero then something like 220w will be you under the hour.

My indoors FTP is around 220W and I did 2x25s this year just failing to beat the hour by less than a minute both times on the F1, which is not super fast. Had they been on the E2 I am fairly certain they would have been around short 58s