Doing a SR in 2010 for PBP

[bazdunk]

Hi,

Newie to the forum and to Audax.

With PBP on my tick list of things to do before I die, I recently joined AUK UK and am in the process of getting a SR completed this year.

I started with a 400 and have also completed a 200, with a hilly 300 planned this Sat and then a 600 the following week, that would be the minimum I would have thought to complete a SR BUT I have noticed that each event has to be BRM event.

The 200 (Deeside Loop) that I completed is only a BR event, can somebody explain the difference between a BR event and a BRM event and will the BR event be OK to qualify for a SR?

Too many abbreviations to learn but I'm getting there!!

Cheers,
Baz

[Exit Stage Left]

You don't have to do a full SR BRM series to qualify for PBP in 2010. That is for 2011. This year it would be a good idea to do a BRM 600 as this puts you up a sort of waiting list for next year. Doing a BRM 1,000 would be even better, but those are booked up.

[Greenbank]

An SR in 2010 doesn't count for anything for PBP.

However, the longer a BRM ride you do in 2010 the earlier you'll be able to pre-register for PBP in 2011.

Regardless of what you do in 2010, you still need to do a full BRM SR in 2011, within some restricted dates, to qualify for PBP.

BR rides do not satisfy the conditions for early access pre-registration or the required SR in 2011.

[bazdunk]

But what's the difference between a BR and a BRM, as I would like to complete a SR this year but I understand that I still have to do a SR next year which are all BRM's.

[Greenbank]

The 200 (Deeside Loop) that I completed is only a BR event, can somebody explain the difference between a BR event and a BRM event and will the BR event be OK to qualify for a SR?

And to answer the question...

BR events are not validated by ACP (the French Audax club), only AUK. BRM events are validated by ACP and can be used as qualifiers.

BR events are run with slightly looser time restrictions (minimum average speed can be 14.3kph instead of 15kph, and you get extra time if the ride is over-distance unlike with BRM). For example:-

Imagine a 600 that was actually 619km. It could be:-

BR at 14.3kph min average speed: 619 / 14.3 = 43h17
BR at 15.0kph min average speed: 619 / 15.0 = 41h16
BRM: 40h (600/15)

(It's slightly more complicated than this because the distance used for timing calculations should be the 'shortest distance between controls' distance which isn't necessarily the 'routesheet' distance, although many organisers just use the routesheet distance. So a 619km Audax with 14.3kph may have a time limit of, say, 42h18 because the shortest distance between controls is 605km and 605/14.3 = 42h18.)

BRM time limits are defined as:-

200: 13h30m
300: 20h
400: 27h
600: 40h
1200: 90h (although PBP is run as a 40h 600 to Brest and a 50h 600 back to Paris).

In practice it means you get your brevet card back (after an extra delay) from a BRM event it will have a sticker from the ACP on it with a validation/homologation number. It's this number you'll enter in the PBP registration website which will form the proof that you've done the requisite early registration ride in 2010, or the SR series in 2011.

[SandyV]

Excellent summary Greenbank!

[bazdunk]

Greenbank, thanks that explains everything.

Will try and find a 200 KM which is BRM so that I can get the SR completed as I think the 300, 400 and 600 are all BRM.

Is there an idiots guide to explain the abbreviations as I'm working things out from the handbook and various web-sites?

Such as:
BRM - Brevet de Randonneurs Mondiaux (BRM 200-1000 km) Brevet de Randonneurs Mondiaux (RM 1200(+) km)
BR - Brevet de Randonneur (BR 200(+) km)

....taken from handbook

I'm probably not the first person asking these newbie questions!! 

Thanks,
Baz

[vistaed]

Yes thanks Greenbank, nice to have that explanation actually written down. Could someone point me to a place where I could find a proper list of all the AUK awards and how they work. As Baz says trying to find this stuff out is not that easy, unless your on the inside of some secret circle.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You do not need a BRM 200 this year.  Early entry to PBP in 2011 only applies to the longest BRM you've done in 2010.

You will need to complete a BRM Super Randonneur in 2011 to qualify but all brevets within the qualifying periods will be BRM anyway..

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Could someone point me to a place where I could find a proper list of all the AUK awards and how they work. As Baz says trying to find this stuff out is not that easy, unless your on the inside of some secret circle.

It is all in the AUK Handbook and on the AUK website.
awards

[dkahn400]

Excellent summary Greenbank!

Yes, it's a keeper.

[arvid]

You don't have to do a full SR BRM series to qualify for PBP in 2010. That is for 2011. This year it would be a good idea to do a BRM 600 as this puts you up a sort of waiting list for next year. Doing a BRM 1,000 would be even better, but those are booked up.

There's a whole continent nearby with 1000(+) BRM rides that aren't booked up.

[MattH]

There's a whole continent nearby with 1000(+) BRM rides that aren't booked up.

Yes, but that would mean riding in places like France, and who'd want to do that?

 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You don't have to do a full SR BRM series to qualify for PBP in 2010. That is for 2011. This year it would be a good idea to do a BRM 600 as this puts you up a sort of waiting list for next year. Doing a BRM 1,000 would be even better, but those are booked up.

There's a whole continent nearby with 1000(+) BRM rides that aren't booked up.

AUK isn't going to fill up its 2011 PBP quota, so there isn't great pressure to 'get ahead' of other AUKs in the PBP pre-qualification list.

[border-rider]

^This

nice to get an SR in this year, if only for confidence building and experience, but it's not really likely to much affect your chances of getting a place.

[PloddinPedro]

AUK isn't going to fill up its 2011 PBP quota, so there isn't great pressure to 'get ahead' of other AUKs in the PBP pre-qualification list.

I'm sure you're right in saying this, but do we yet know what the "AUK quota" will be, or even if there is one? I haven't seen anything determining this, but then I'm often asleep!

[border-rider]

Given the good UK finish rate in 2007 and the number of BRM events ridden in the UK in 2009, we're not likely to get a lower allocation than previously.  And we've never previously filled our allocation.

[frankly frankie]

BR events are run with slightly looser time restrictions (minimum average speed can be 14.3kph instead of 15kph, and you get extra time if the ride is over-distance unlike with BRM). For example:-

Imagine a 600 that was actually 619km. It could be:-
BR at 14.3kph min average speed: 619 / 14.3 = 43h17
BR at 15.0kph min average speed: 619 / 15.0 = 41h16
BRM: 40h (600/15)

This is a good summary but it slightly suggests that BRM is somehow a 'tougher' or 'higher' standard than BR.

This is not always the case.  Imagine a BRM 400 that is actually, er, 400km.
BRM: 27h.
BR at 15.0kph min average speed: 400 / 15.0 = 26h40

In this case the BR requirement is 'tougher' than the BRM one.
BR and BRM are just (slightly) different - it's not a case of one being better than the other.  For PBP purposes BRM is required, simply because the organisers of PBP make it so.

[MSeries]

Did my SR 600 this weekend.

Had a discussion with Bob Johnson who noted no cards have come back yet for any of the BRM rides done so far this year.

Bob seemed to think we needed to take some kind of action in respect of pre-registration but wasn't sure waht.

My view based upon what I've read is that all pre registration is in early 2011 and starts with 2010 BRM 1000 riders followed by 2010 BRM 600 riders etc.

Any clues if we need to do anything this side of Xmas?

AC

There were some dates published somewhere which said when you could pre-register based on what you've achieved this year. With a 1000km BRM one could pre-regsiter on 11/4/11 IIRC, with a 600km BRM it was a week or two later. That's all I could remember. I expect Arrivee will keep us informed. No need to panic just yet.

[Jules]

Did my SR 600 this weekend.

Had a discussion with Bob Johnson who noted no cards have come back yet for any of the BRM rides done so far this year.

I've just got my brevet back from the Stevenage start of Summertime BRM 200 this very morning. It is complete with both AUK and ACP sticker.

[Greenbank]

There must have been a batch come through as the Taste Of The Test results are now up on the AUK website.

[cyclone]

Had my Kennet Valley card a month or more.....Nothing since mind...

[LiamFitz]

AUK isn't going to fill up its 2011 PBP quota, so there isn't great pressure to 'get ahead' of other AUKs in the PBP pre-qualification list.

I think this is an important message to get out there.  The belief that you can't guarantee a place for PBP if you haven't done BRM's this year will undoubtedly put some people off.

Part of the fun of PBP is the camaraderie of doing qualifiers with lots of other people and it would be a shame if these ended up as limp affairs because too many people were put off by an imaginary hurdle.

Liam

[Euan Uzami]

i'm not sure i am planning on doing it, but if I was, then how likely would the following be to qualify me for pbp: upper thames (done), elenith (done), BCM (done), lanchester (planning on doing), elan/tregaron (planning on doing)?

then would I still have to do SR in 2011, if so, would pengwern sr be valid

[rottenhat]

Nothing you do this year qualifies you for PBP, it only allows you to register earlier.  You will have to ride an SR series of BRM events in 2011 to qualify.