Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: Tom M on 29 November, 2010, 03:16:10 pm
-
Mrs Tom M has expressed an interest in aquiring an 'old Joanna' to reaquaint herself with the tinkling of the ivories whilst on maternity leave. With baby on the way money is not exactly spouting forth in Irish economic bailout proportions.
However, it seems as though there are a good lot of pianos on Ebay that are basically free (maybe a few £) to a collector. I would guess that unless being used they're the sort of thing that does get in the way somewhat and folk just want to be rid of them. The cost is going to be getting it moved and the tuning.
I would not expect anything of great quality obviously, but most seem sound enough looking anyway. I understand that it would need tuning after removal anyway.
Anyone in the know got any ideas on names I should be on the lookout for? Any good/bad things? General advice/warnings?
Ta.
-
The tuning pegs can rust into the frame, making them impossible to tune. I had to get rid of one for a friend following her Father's death in order to make room for the wake. They produce a reasonable amount of kindling and some cast iron to be weighed in, but it does feel wrong to be smashing them up.
-
The advice I got when I asked an expert this question was..."expect to spend as much on a s/h piano as on a s/h car".
Do your research. The little I know is that good makes include Bechstein, Steinway, Bluthner, Challen, yamaha. Look for a steel frame, and "overstrung" design. (Wooden frames often warp).
Expect to invest a few £hundred in moving and tuning.... I have helped move a piano as a DIY job but you'll need several people's muscles + a set of (piano) "wheels" to do it, and a runaway or dropped piano is a nightmre (as are stairs etc.
Good advice is befriend a tuner etc and get any prospective purchases looked at by them first, unless you know what you're about. NB refelting restoration etc may cost you £00s anyway. Don't be taken in by fancy cases...but a crappy case may conceal a messed up instrument.
That all said you may get lucky.
Good luck!
-
As with bikes, really, you want to be getting the best you can afford. Make sure it's structurally sound, and nothing out of alignment.
Of course, ideally you want carbon fibre, and some people would insist on Campag keys, though I'd prefer Shimano.
A Brooks stool sets off the finest classic piano nicely.
-
some people would insist on Campag keys, though I'd prefer Shimano.
Ebony and Ivory, living together in harmony....
-
No room for SRAM...
-
Get your strongest man to lift and shif the bass end, which is much heavier.
The philistine in me wonders if it's really worth the hassle when electronic keyboards are cheap, lightweight and stay perfectly in tune...
-
The philistine in me wonders if it's really worth the hassle when electronic keyboards are cheap, lightweight and stay perfectly in tune...
For about a year, I had on loan a quality studio (as opposed to stage) electric piano with weighted keys and everyfink.
The similarities between playing that and an upright were galaxies apart. Having said which, I can see why people might sacrifice the feel and tone if they don't have the space etc....
-
The philistine in me wonders if it's really worth the hassle when electronic keyboards are cheap, lightweight and stay perfectly in tune...
. . . and will be on sale in Lidl/Aldi VERY soon.
Bargains! Much cheapness!
-
Going back a long time ago sound boards were fashioned in wood and wood can and did split making the piano un-tunable.Probably very few remain.
So look inside before you buy. If everything is constructed with metal and rust free there is a good chance it will be OK. Better still pay a Piano tuner to check it before you part with your pennies.
-
Do your research. The little I know is that good makes include Bechstein, Steinway, Bluthner, Challen, yamaha. Look for a steel frame, and "overstrung" design. (Wooden frames often warp).
In our quest for a piano, I found out that the main feature is the damper design in an upright. There are 2 types: under-damped and over-damped and these terms refer to the position of the string dampers relative to the hammers. Under-damped is far superior; over-damped is found on budget models.
I suggest you look at a few in dealers' showrooms so you can learn enough to be able to tell a good one from a bad one. I did this and it paid off. We bought an unloved German upright for £550 plus £150 to have it re-polished. Moving and tuning were about £50 and £40 respectively (but we only moved a short distance).
One other thing to look for is shrinkage of the peg holes. Although pianos have steel frames the pegs are held in a wooden sleeve. Modern houses with central heating cause this wood to shrink back making the peg slip with the resultant honky-tonk sound to certain keys. We have this problem on one of ours and our tuner suggested removing that string if it becomes a major problem. If you come across a piano with this problem on many keys then avoid.
-
When MiniQ wanted to learn I picked up a free one from Freecycle and moved it in a mate's van for the cost of a few beers for the friendly labour. The donor let us have a tinkle on it and confirmed it was tune-able before we took it away. It was as ugly as a slapped bulldog but worked okay for three years until MiniQ had demonstrated sufficienct commitment to the craft to deserve me spending a few grand (no pun intended) on a decent piece of kit.
We've got a Knights upright now - a solid British make. There are tonnes of 2nd hand Yamaha's out there as the Japanese tend to always buy new, so the 2nd hand ones are exported. General rule is that a decent 1980's Yamaha is better than a new one anyway as they are now built to a price to compete with Chinese imports.
Visit your local piano shop - 90% of the UK market is 2nd hand. Econonically the shops aren't interested in touching piano's much under £1500.
Top Tip: best to buy during the summer hols - I got a 10% discount for doing that as this seems to be a dead spot in piano sales while everyone is off-school/away on holiday.
Q
-
Bought a casio cdp100 for my daughter last Christmas http://www.dennistoddmusic.com/keyboards.html (http://www.dennistoddmusic.com/keyboards.html). Very pleased with it. Casio are well thought of in the electronic piano world for their excellent "feel". I would recommend getting the stand. Dennis Todd music (as per the link) were competitive in price and very helpful.
By the way, if she gets the urge to learn the violin don't risk buying a cheap one. It might be a fiddle.
-
Woofage is right about underdamper.
Also, cross-strung (where the longest strings cross over the shorter ones, in different planes) will give you a better tone.
Arcoleo: I have never heard of a piano whose sound board was made of anything other than wood. Frames should be iron.
Another perfectly acceptable make not mentioned is Rud. Ibach Sohn. I had one of these, given to me by a friend's mother, when I was in my teens. I got up to about Grade 7 on it, but being an overdamper model it wasn't as good as the pianos at school so I generally practised on them as well. Overdamper pianos are generally less responsive and you won't be able to play very fast pieces on them, especially if there are rapidly repeated notes, because the mechanism takes too long to return to its resting position.
Bechstein are wonderful and you won't find a cheap one. You can look up the frame number on the Bechstein website and find out your piano's age. ICBA to look inside my piano atm 'cos it's covered in crap, but IIRC it's from 1891. I think you might be able to do this with other brands as well.
-
Here's some advice from an expert on old pianos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ahzLGK_VY)
And, whatever you do, ensure you check the action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN5V-6yCbpg)
-
Bechstein are wonderful and you won't find a cheap one. You can look up the frame number on the Bechstein website and find out your piano's age.
My parents have an upright Bechstein with the most gorgeous tone (and beautiful casing) which I learnt to play on throughout my childhood and teens. I'd spend hours and hours playing Brahms and Chopin, and I love that piano deeply. I have always thought that one day I'd own a house large enough to take it, and would once again play for hours.
It has been living in their current abode, a large modern house, for the last 10 years. It's wrecked. Some notes sound like a hideous old pub piano. It's not an overstrung model, and to restring it would apparently cost upwards of £10k, and (understandably) they won't shell out for it. When my mum told me this I actually cried.
I'm thinking of saving up to rescue it. Insane, isn't it, but it feels like a death in the family. and I'm crying all over again just thinking about it.
-
Alex, reading that makes me weepy.
And I prolly shouldn't post this :-[
-
I wonder about that amount, LMM.
My piano was one of a batch of Bechsteins with a design fault which didn't come to light until the 1920s or 30s, when the pianos were 40 or so years old. The pegs are supported only in the sound board and of course the huge stresses tend to pull the pegs downwards and make the holes oval. From about the 1920s the pegs were supported by the frame as well, resting within a fibre bush.
James Dace & Son, the specialist music shop in Chelmsford, quoted me £1700 to do the work (replace all the pegs with oversized ones, fit fibre bushes and new strings). That was about 5 years ago. I decided that I no longer play the piano enough to justify the work.
My guess is that your piano is from the same era. Look up the serial no on the Bechstein website and it will give you the age.
Willkommen bei Bechstein
(http://www.bechstein.de/service/faq/howoldismybechstein/default.aspx) refers. Mine's 31080 - 1891.
-
Alex, you could buy this for £9500. It's beautiful.
Burr Walnut, Bechstein Upright Piano: Modern upright Piano for sale: Besbrode Pianos Leeds: We buy and sell new and secondhand pianos. Specialist piano dealer, trader and wholesaler. Grands and Uprights in stock for sale and hire. Piano Removals. Replica Parts. Piano information (http://www.piano-uk.com/pianos/piano271.html)
I'm sure the price your parents were quoted must be wrong.
-
Right, I'm going to look into it myself.
I'll check the frame no. and take some pics at xmas to share with the Bechstein fans - maybe we need a 'Gratuitous piano pics' thread :)
-
Back to the OP (although interested in the discussion of Bechstein pianos. I have a Raymond & Co grand piano which was London made and I think has a lovely tone - it's rather un-PC though, being made of mahogany and with ebony and ivory keys; it's from the 1930s...)
Anyway, I bought myself a Roland Stage Piano back in 1989 when I went off to Uni. It was loadsamoney then but made an excellent sound - it was far more pleasurable to play than any upright of the time. It still works fine although is currently languishing under the spare bed as it isn't as nice to play as my grand piano. I think they can be picked up for around £300ish now second-hand and might be an option - your wife could play with headphones on (to not wake the baby). My Roland doesn't have its own amplification, it has to go through the hi-fi which does mean decent quality sound.
-
One of our number has a Kawai Organ (Fnaaarrrr!) in General Classifieds . . .
-
Back to the OP (although interested in the discussion of Bechstein pianos. I have a Raymond & Co grand piano which was London made and I think has a lovely tone - it's rather un-PC though, being made of mahogany and with ebony and ivory keys; it's from the 1930s...)
Anyway, I bought myself a Roland Stage Piano back in 1989 when I went off to Uni. It was loadsamoney then but made an excellent sound - it was far more pleasurable to play than any upright of the time. It still works fine although is currently languishing under the spare bed as it isn't as nice to play as my grand piano. I think they can be picked up for around £300ish now second-hand and might be an option - your wife could play with headphones on (to not wake the baby). My Roland doesn't have its own amplification, it has to go through the hi-fi which does mean decent quality sound.
My younger son is in possession of two keyboards, a relic from when he was In A Band. One's a Korg something-or-other and the other's and 88-key weighted Technics. Both require amplifiers. He also has a Hammond organ which used to belong to the Suzi Quattro Band.
The Technics is actually very good fun to play. The keys feel convincingly piano-like and the "Steinway Grand" sound is also pretty authentic.
The keys are absolutely horrible when you put it in harpsichord mode, though. It still feels like a piano but sounds like a harpsichord and that's all wrong!
But yes, a Gratuitous Pianos Pics thread would be excellent.
-
Back to the OP (although interested in the discussion of Bechstein pianos. I have a Raymond & Co grand piano which was London made and I think has a lovely tone - it's rather un-PC though, being made of mahogany and with ebony and ivory keys; it's from the 1930s...)
Anyway, I bought myself a Roland Stage Piano back in 1989 when I went off to Uni. It was loadsamoney then but made an excellent sound - it was far more pleasurable to play than any upright of the time. It still works fine although is currently languishing under the spare bed as it isn't as nice to play as my grand piano. I think they can be picked up for around £300ish now second-hand and might be an option - your wife could play with headphones on (to not wake the baby). My Roland doesn't have its own amplification, it has to go through the hi-fi which does mean decent quality sound.
My younger son is in possession of two keyboards, a relic from when he was In A Band. One's a Korg something-or-other and the other's and 88-key weighted Technics. Both require amplifiers. He also has a Hammond organ which used to belong to the Suzi Quattro Band.
The Technics is actually very good fun to play. The keys feel convincingly piano-like and the "Steinway Grand" sound is also pretty authentic.
The keys are absolutely horrible when you put it in harpsichord mode, though. It still feels like a piano but sounds like a harpsichord and that's all wrong!
But yes, a Gratuitous Pianos Pics thread would be excellent.
Yep, my Roland has weighted keys (weighs five stone!) and velocity sensitivity so it does give a pretty authentic feel. It's grand piano sound is very good but some of the other sounds aren't so useful (it only has eight sounds, one of which is terribly 1980s). It doesn't have very many buttons, it was just meant to be a piano, but it is great and did sterling service as a piano for a church for 15 years.
-
Resurrection time.
I was inspired by my son, who has recently moved into a lovely house and has bought a lovely piano to match, to start playing my piano again. The tone is good and it keeps in tune but the case has definitely seen better days. I've spent quite a bit of time on line looking at piano websites and the most informative I've come across is http://www.robertspianos.com/. They have a couple of very useful pages, firstly on different brands you are likely to meet, and how good they are likely to be, here:-
http://www.robertspianos.com/top-makes/common-piano-makes-in-the-uk/
There's another page giving advice on how to tell one model from another.
http://www.robertspianos.com/piano-advice/sell-your-piano/sell-your-bechstein-piano-sell-my-bechstein-grand-or-upright-piano/
From that, I've concluded that my piano is a Model III and not the Model IV I was led to believe it was.
I've also had a conversation with Marcus Roberts about whether it is worth doing anything about the hole ovalisation and I've concluded that it's not: it would be a massive job costing £lots (replacing the pin block). My piano is keeping in tune and has a good tone but if it does deteriorate I will simply trade it in and get something else. I actually think it will see me out as it's only 120 years old.
Having said that, Mr. Roberts invited me to come to their showrooms in Oxford for half a day and play a lot of their pianos. That sounds to me like a very good offer.
-
I have just booked a tuning. New tuner. I haven't heard from our old guy for a while (to be fair, I put him off a year or more ago when the piano was inaccessible because of the contents of Phyllis's bungalow) but I have been given the number of another tuner, courtesy of our local piano shop The Piano Pavilion. Apparently she is the first lady piano tuner ever to be employed by Steinway.
I want a professional opinion about the piano's value. I have just seen this
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2170601&make=Grotrian%20Steinweg-&model=128-Upright-piano
and I think I might be in love.
-
This is a good deal isn't it?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAN-DELIVER-BECHSTEIN-LIGHT-WOOD-6-BOUD-GRAND-PIANO-The-Little-Piano-Store-/292178353082?hash=item44072fdbba:g:v0YAAOSwfJJZY5PE
-
This is a good deal isn't it?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAN-DELIVER-BECHSTEIN-LIGHT-WOOD-6-BOUD-GRAND-PIANO-The-Little-Piano-Store-/292178353082?hash=item44072fdbba:g:v0YAAOSwfJJZY5PE
I think the finish to that piano is quite ugly. I don't think Bechstein would ever have issued one from the factory like that. I especially don't like the brass straps around each corner - I have never seen that before. The serial number of 24396 would indicate a very old instrument - 1890 according to Roberts' Pianos website. Perhaps the case was so badly marked that was the best they could do.
You would have to play it to decide. Baby grands are not favoured instruments because their sound boards are generally too small for the rich resonance that larger instrument produce. A good upright instrument is often to be preferred to a baby grand. Also, if I were to fork out almost £4k for a refurbished instrument, I would want a lot more than a 12 month guarantee of the work. Roberts of Oxford guarantee all their work for 5 years or more, or so it appears from their website.
My piano (1891 Bechstein upright - I think a model III) was completely refurbished in 1978, when I bought it. I have played it a lot over the years, as have all the children. I'm wondering whether to get it done again but it probably isn't necessary. Some of the ivories have come unstuck and the lacquered finish is chipped/laminated in places, probably due to the ravages of a moderately damp house and central heating. However, the internal workings still seem very good and I reckon once it has been tuned (only one note is obviously "off") I am hoping it will be OK. However, I am acutely aware that the duff note, the E flat below middle C, has been a problem before, and I wonder whether one or more of the pegs has loosened in its hole.
I shall take the advice of the tuner on Thursday. I'm hoping that she will say it's OK for a few more years yet, but if she reckons that note is going to continue to go out of tune I may well be very tempted to trade it in for a refurbishment and replace it. That Grotrian-Steinweg I linked to above is just an absolutely stunning piano. I like the way the guy from Roberts makes a short video about each piano and talks about the refurbishment work the company has done. I would love to have that.
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2170601&make=Grotrian%20Steinweg-&model=128-Upright-piano
-
I'll add/correct what I said about baby grands.
It's worth looking at a load of https://www.robertspianos.com/ videos: the guy there makes lots, comparing different types of piano. He has a preference for baby grands over uprights because the horizontal action in the grand, compared to the vertical action of the upright, makes it possible to play repeated notes much more quickly on the grand. This is a similar issue when comparing overdamper/underdamper uprights. Underdamper tend to be a lot better.
Action apart, I still think a good, tall upright may well have a better tone than a baby grand, because of the better tone afforded by longer strings and a bigger soundboard. Your technique as a pianist would have to be pretty good to find that the issue of playing fast, repeated notes became important. I reckon I was about grade 5 or 6 before I found that the overdamper piano I had been practising on was inadequate, and I did most of my serious practising at school on some of the lovely old pianos we had in various rooms there.
-
I have just had the piano tuned by Val Hodgson (http://www.pianopavilion.com/tuner.htm). That's a pretty impressive CV (time for me to update my "Tenuous claims to fame!)!
Val told me that the duff note has a pin she can't tighten and it needs to be replaced. Otherwise, the piano is in pretty good working order for its age. So no need for me to shell out on a wonderful instrument from Roberts or somewhere! She has also referred me to a technician who can, hopefully, replace the pin in question.
-
This is "my" Bechstein, only 1903 though.
https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o (https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o)
-
Did Stradivarius make any pianos?
-
<snip> That's pretty impressive CV (time for me to update my "Tenuous claims to fame!)!<snip>
I think you may've just won the internet, Wow.
-
I want a professional opinion about the piano's value. I have just seen this
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2170601&make=Grotrian%20Steinweg-&model=128-Upright-piano
I have no opinion on this particular piano, but £8000 for a 1921 upright Steiweg seems a bit exagerated!
Baby grands are not favoured instruments because their sound boards are generally too small for the rich resonance that larger instrument produce.
Totally agree with you! If you want a rich sounding piano but cannot afford a 10 foot grand, look for a Bechstein No 8. We have one that we paid €600*, and believe me, when you close your eyes, you can not tell it's an upright.
*: admittedly, it was that cheap because the frenchs have a strong dislike for german things ;D ;D
-
It's not necessarily over-priced at £8000. In effect, you are getting a new instrument for that price, as with the new strings, wrest plank and pins it will probably last about 100 years before it needs to have any other maintenance than tuning. Steinway, Bechstein, Bosendorfer and Bluthner were competing massively for business around the turn of the 20th century and they couldn't afford to allow a lapse in quality. Apparently Bechstein were churning out about 5000 pianos a year about that time. It's incredible to think that they maintained the standards that they did - there are loads and loads of >100-year-old Bechsteins still in daily use. What other area of manufacturing has maintained such widespread longevity, with hardly any significant improvements in that time? I can't think of one. Incidentally, you can buy a new Bosendorfer 130 upright (I think the 130 indicates the height in cm) for a cool £36k.
Bear in mind that my piano (I think it's a Model 3: 88 keys and 1891) still has the original wrest plank and, I think, pins. It's 126 years old. It was given a major overhaul when we bought it in 1978, but the ovalling of the pin holes dates back to its origin, I think. Marcus Roberts, who makes those really lovely geeky piano videos, talks about the later Bechsteins having wrest planks that hold their tuning rather better than the earlier ones. I gain the impression that your Model 8 would be the later, improved version of my Model 3. It's pretty hard to find any firm info on the internet though. I expect a phone call to Roberts themselves (I think I am going to have to have a trip to Oxford just for that purpose - and to play some of their pianos of course!) would clear the matter up in a few seconds.
-
This is "my" Bechstein, only 1903 though.
https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o (https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o)
Is that a relative of yours playing it? Very impressive! Lovely clear, even runs!
-
...
Totally agree with you! If you want a rich sounding piano but cannot afford a 10 foot grand, look for a Bechstein No 8. We have one that we paid €600*, and believe me, when you close your eyes, you can not tell it's an upright.
*: admittedly, it was that cheap because the frenchs have a strong dislike for german things ;D ;D
A local church has a French Pleyel grand piano which was in use for one of our choir's concerts a year or two ago. I can't remember how old it is, but another choir member, who is a member of that church, told me that they had had to raise quite a bit of cash recently to have it restored. ISTR reading somewhere that the daughter of M. Pleyel was involved in a torrid affair with Hector Berlioz. *googles*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Pleyel
Bloody hell! I didn't know Mad Hector had planned to kill her mother! Not out of character though, I suppose...
-
This is "my" Bechstein, only 1903 though.
https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o (https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o)
Is that a relative of yours playing it? Very impressive! Lovely clear, even runs!
A hair's breadth too fast/up tempo IMHO opinion.
Otherwise breathtaking.
I sincerely hope I've not put anyone's nose out of joint with this post.
She's reading / turning the score FFS...
Loved listening to it...
-
Did Stradivarius make any pianos?
Almost certainly not. He died in the early 18th century. Although the invention of the piano allegedly dates back to the 1709 (I think) when someone buggered about with a harpsichord and put in a different action, those instruments were so fragile that they wouldn't be expected to last. The late 19th century piano boom was based upon an incredibly robust and rugged iron frame that causes the instruments to last years. There are still a few "fortepianos" about, early ones of the type that Mozart might have known, but they are museum pieces. Occasionally they are wheeled out to play stuff but their tone is very much lighter.
Beethoven used a Broadwood, I believe, a very old English make which I think is still in existence. They are nice pianos - I used to practise on one at college. It had a very "bright" tone and its keys seemed to be quite light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Broadwood_%26_Sons
Crikey! They are coming up to 300 years in the same business! The only other company rivalling that that immediately springs to mind is Shepherd Neame.
-
There are some older businesses out there.
http://www.whitechapelbellfoundry.co.uk/history.htm
-
Yes, Dez mentioned pipe organ manufacturers as well, but pipe organs and bell foundries don't quite appeal to the mass market the way that quality (and not-so-good quality) pianos did.
-
Big Ben seems to have popular appeal. Admittedly not one in every living room.
-
Big Ben seems to have popular appeal. Admittedly not one in every living room.
And a popular peal.
As a matter of interest, how often are the bells changed in bell towers?
-
Not very often due to general inconvenience and labour costs. Yer standard bell-shaped bell is tunable both up and down by scraping metal away from strategic places, so unless they are damaged somehow they can last a few hundred years and still be sound as a bell.
-
Big Ben seems to have popular appeal. Admittedly not one in every living room.
And a popular peal.
I'll set 'em up and...
-
This is "my" Bechstein, only 1903 though.
https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o (https://youtu.be/RJG8J3_N50o)
Is that a relative of yours playing it? Very impressive! Lovely clear, even runs!
Not a relative, one of my pupils. The piano sits just outside my study and is often played by pupils before registration and/or during break.
-
I have the piano technician coming tomorrow to have a look at my pins.
-
I discussed the business of technological longevity with the guy at the piano shop this afternoon. He mad a great contribution instantly: Singer sewing machines. They have been around for many years and lots of the old ones are still in use, many of them (like my mother's) upgraded with an electric motor.
My piano is still injured. The Man came with the new pin, but broke the string whilst trying to fix it. He also identified another loose pin...
This could become a slippery slope. I am on the lookout for a new piano. just in case. I have the space for a grand. I just need to persuade Jan that it's a good idea...
Oh, and the music shop had been given a 1970 harpsichord to restore. Looked in perfect order to me. I fancy that as well. Some of Bach's preludes & fugues would come out very well on one of those.
-
I fancy that as well.
:thumbsup: Looks like n+1 applies to pianos (and guitars and classic cars and .. ) as well!
-
And telescopes and sheds; partner has a grand piano, an upright with silent system, 2 electronic pianos, an electronic keyboard, 6 sheds, n telescopes, x computers and four bicycles...
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14jCwHjSM94
That's a very interesting video by Marcus Roberts, as I think that is exactly the same model as my piano, albeit that one is 4 years younger than mine. I'm fascinated by the discussion below the video about treating Bechsteins with deteriorating wrest-planks with thin superglue - lying the pianos on their backs and squirting superglue into the oval holes. If it works, it's a lot cheaper than putting in oversized pins and replacing wrest-planks.
-
Old pianos in Bristol are being turned into street art.
https://streetpianos.com/bristol2017/
-
Ok, string replaced, but it now needs tuning again. I will get the tuner out again after we come back from Wales (29th Aug).
I spent a couple of hours bashing Beethoven & Bach this afternoon. Feel quite tired...
-
<snip>
Another perfectly acceptable make not mentioned is Rud. Ibach Sohn. I had one of these, given to me by a friend's mother, when I was in my teens. I got up to about Grade 7 on it, but being an overdamper model it wasn't as good as the pianos at school so I generally practised on them as well. Overdamper pianos are generally less responsive and you won't be able to play very fast pieces on them, especially if there are rapidly repeated notes, because the mechanism takes too long to return to its resting position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZjAz6t05Ps
I didn't realise that it was possible to convert overdamper to underdamper. I wonder what Roberts charges for this service? I reckon it must be A Lot. But I'm pleased he shares my opinion about Ibach pianos. I am regretting allowing my old one to go to the tip now. In consultation with Dez, we think we sold it for £100. That was 16 years ago and I think it was bought by the Piano Pavilion, as mentioned above. They had an Ibach upright in stock when I was in there last week. It had a lovely case.
(http://undergroundpianola.com/____impro/1/onewebmedia/IBACH.jpg?etag=W%2F%224ba8e-58b6b83e%22&sourceContentType=image%2Fjpeg&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=166%2B166&extract=0%2B0%2B166%2B166)
-
Jan and I are spending 5 nights at The Forest B & B, near Newtown. The "lounge" is a fully kitted music room with a beautiful Bechstein grand piano, a "square" piano dating from about 1850, and a full concert-sized xylophone! Host & hostess perfectly happy for guests to play the Bechstein. Which I did. Loudly.
-
How wonderful!
-
Our Bechstein has been tuned again and seems to be holding its note. I discovered a hammer that doesn't strike all three strings of one of the notes. I reckon it has been like that all the time I have had it. If you play that note fortissimo, it's out of tune because then the hammer does strike the third string, which is flat. Normal playing only makes two strings vibrate and they are both in tune.
The hammers on my piano have quite deep grooves in them where they have been bashing the strings for many years.
-
A plan is beginning to form.
My daughter wants a piano for the gcs to learn on. Unless you get one with a guarantee of some kind, buying second-hand is always pot luck. It struck me that our piano probably has a fair bit of life left in it. It has a lovely tone and all of the keys/hammers/dampers do their jobs well. The tuner thinks it will be OK for a fair while yet. Its case, otoh, is very scruffy. The veneer has chipped in several places and the lacquer, which was applied when we bought it 39 years ago, has cracked in several places. It is, to be honest, the ideal piano for someone to learn on where it doesn't matter too much if something happens to the outside of the instrument. So I have suggested to daughter that, if I decide to buy another piano (and I would probably go for something restored rather than a new one) she might like to have it for her children. She likes this idea.
I like this idea because it means that I don't have to trade it in (and I doubt that anyone would bother to do the work on it to make it into a saleable item - Bechsteins are just too common) and it would grieve me to think that it would be about to have the ESL treatment (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=41112.msg786239#msg786239).
If it does indeed become untuneable in the near future, then OK, we have extended its useful life as long as possible and our grandchildren have an excellent instrument on which to learn. It may well be possible to get another 10 years or so out of it, in which case I will be happy.
And of course it allows me to apply n+1 to pianos, even though they are not being kept in the same county!
-
I have pretty much decided to buy a grand piano. A lot depends on what is available. I reckon I can fit a 6' grand into the space available, which is perfectly acceptable. The longer the piano, in general the better the sound. The vast majority of concert halls use Steinway D-274s where the 274 is the number of centimetres long. 8' 11¾". I would find it hard to justify that, and neither do I have the necessary spondulicks - $299999 on the first website I found with a price!
-
Marcus usually attends the piano auctions held in Conway Hall. The next is 21 September. His opinions on used grands might be useful...
www.pianoauctions.co.uk
Lots 6, 19, 33 & 52 may be of interest.
-
I am intending to go along. Jan and I are intending to visit his workshops/showroom next Wednesday.
-
Marcus usually attends the piano auctions held in Conway Hall. The next is 21 September. His opinions on used grands might be useful...
www.pianoauctions.co.uk
Lots 6, 19, 33 & 52 may be of interest.
The Steinway is beyond my budget I think. Roberts have a couple at around the same price that have been reconditioned.
The 6' Bechstein probably needs a complete restoration at that price. That would take a while, but I would be pretty happy to consult with Marcus and get him to do the work on something like that.
I think my heart is set on a 100-year-old German "big four" piano. Roberts have new Feurich for sale for under £9000 and I'm quite tempted by that, but I think the older pianos have a mellower tone. A Bluthner would suit me fine...
PS Lot 89, the Ibach, is tempting. Quite a new piano and I played an Ibach grand a lot in my youth (it was in the school hall at KEGS, Chelmsford).
-
If you do buy one check inside it (there may be a horde of treasure* in it).
*Interesting programme on Radio 4 last Saturday morning; about a piano tuner who found a horde of gold coins
inside a piano he was tuning. :thumbsup:
-
I think this is seriously unlikely, unless the treasure is in the form of pristine hammers, dampers, strings, bridges, frames etc. The piano which is no. 1 on my list has been completely restored.
Mrs. Wow and I are off to Orxfud in the morning. I already have a pretty good idea of which one is my favourite and I have asked then to hang on to it until I have had a chance to play it, and several others.
-
If you do buy one check inside it (there may be a horde of treasure* in it).
*Interesting programme on Radio 4 last Saturday morning; about a piano tuner who found a horde of gold coins
inside a piano he was tuning. :thumbsup:
I saw this (or a similar) story on the BBC news website a few months ago. IIRC they never traced the owner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdVVe4WBXfA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdVVe4WBXfA)
-
I posted this on FB about my day - in answer to a point made by Helly.
We didn't see Marcus as it was his day off. However, I learned that he drives a Nissan Leaf and rides a bike. I wonder if it's a Thorn with a Rohloff hub? ;)
No decision on a piano yet. The one I had my eye on, the Blüthner Style VIII, looked even better in real life than it did in the picture. It was mostly absolutely lovely to play: a gorgeous warm, rich bass and middle, and very easy to play very quietly, courtesy of the Blüthner patented action. However, it was lacking power in the highest 2 octaves. I subsequently learned from the staff, never having played a Blüthner before, that this is a common trait and the main reason that they developed their "Aliquot" system of stringing. The lack of power reminded me very much of the piano I learned on in my teens, an Ibach. When, in my 20s, I bought the Bechstein, I realised what I had been missing. Our current piano has plenty "under the bonnet" in all parts of the keyboard. Having said that, I don't think I have ever made Debussy's 1st Arabesque sound better than it did on that Blüthner. It's absolutely tremendous for quiet playing.
I played a couple of new Feurichs - loads of power but so "bright" as to be almost harsh - at least, in comparison to the Blüthner. There were two lovely Steinways that were absolutely wonderful - both totally restored so as, to all intents and purposes, to be new pianos. But way out of my price range. So, somewhat crestfallen, we went to lunch.
After lunch, we returned to the workshop (all the pianos I had tried so far were in the showroom, a mile or so up the road) and I tried a Bluthner style V, which was disappointing: rather tinny, I thought. There were some Bechstein grands, one of which was for sale, but it was big enough for a concert hall, and again, a few £k more than I had set myself as a budget. It sounded, and felt, gorgeous. All the power you need!
And that brought us back to another Blüthner. This was another Style VIII, but from 1934, so with a roller action (Blüthner stopped producing their patent action in the mid 1920s - because their pianos were a bit quiet in the top register?) but the keyboard and action had been completely removed because it was being French polished (Roberts give their pianos 30 coats) but a couple of the guys reassembled it for me, and I had a go. It has yet to be tuned and the action regulated, but it sounded great. I felt the balance between treble and bass was better than in the older instrument. So that, for the moment, is the favourite. It probably won't be ready until the end of the month, but I will just have to have another trip to Oxford in order to try it again when it is! Its case also looks lovely. I don't think it is quite so striking as the rosewood (this one's mahogany) as the grain doesn't have quite the abrupt contrasts of the older piano, but it is a very attractive ruby red. Their French polisher takes great pride in his work, and rightly so. He is a real craftsman.
-
I have had an email from Marcus Roberts. My piano will be ready in the next day or two. How jolly exciting! He wants me to go to Oxford to play it again in the next couple of days. But I am going camping...
Might have to make it Monday.
-
OK. I shall go to Oxford tomorrow and set off for my camping destination afterwards.
Getting a bit infantile with the excitement...
-
Oh, enjoy!
Shame about the deferred camping!
-
It won't be greatly deferred. I reckon to be in St. Neots before sunset. Getting tents up in the light is a good thing.
-
let us know when you take delivery of your Blüthner Style VIII :'( :'( :'( :'(
I hope to be @ Roberts by end of year with a view to purchase
-
I feel the need to host a yacf piano party. Is the Festive Season too busy?
Spring/Summer mean we can spread onto the patio,which might be cold/wet in the winter...
-
I have a Blüthner! It matches the dog.
-
Enjoy!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axY3t0ZEmKQ
Too many mistakes.
-
I have a Blüthner! It matches the dog.
sorry, but I can only read that as a Blucher (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIID_TGwhM) ;)
-
Very nice!
How many cameras did you use for this?
-
Dez did it. 4 I think. 2 of them were go-pros.
-
Very nice, I watched and listened all the way through. Good job on the editing too.
-
very nice indeed Wowbagger , well done
-
It dawned on me over the weekend that, having been made in 1934 in Leipzig, my beautiful Blüthner was a piece of Nazi memorabilia. This worried me enough to do a bit of googling and I am glad I did. My mind is set at ease.
In other words, Blüthner was a company with a predilection for social good long before that term, as now used, was even a term. With a little more research–and, let it be said, things on the Internet do wait patiently to be found–I came across another extraordinary story in a 2010 feature about the Los Angeles Museum of the Holocaust:
It [the Los Angeles Museum of the Holocaust] will … showcase a Blüthner piano that belonged to Alfred Sendrey, a Jewish conductor born in Budapest who achieved renown worldwide in the early 20th century. He led the Radio Berlin Orchestra and the Radio Leipzig Orchestra when the Nazis came to power.
When Sendrey left Germany, the 6-foot-4-inch-long grand piano stayed behind. “He thought he’d never see his Blüthner again,” said Helga Kasimoff, who owns and operates the Kasimoff-Blüthner Piano Co. on North Larchmont Boulevard in Los Angeles, the oldest purveyor of the German pianos in the United States. But before the war, Kasimoff said, “Blüthner contacted all their Jewish customers and said that if they wanted to leave [Germany], [the Blüthner family] could be helpful picking [their piano] up, putting it in a crate and shipping it to a new address.”
After spending the war years in Paris and New York, Sendrey arrived in Los Angeles. Shortly after his arrival, Kasimoff said, “He got notice from San Pedro that his Blüthner had arrived.” The Blüthner family itself paid to transport the instrument from Europe."
From https://www.polishookpiano.com/…/arnold-schoenberg-pianos-…/
It therefore represents the Spirit of Liberation and is in itself a beacon. Suck on that, Nazi scum!
***
As a footnote to the above, as my piano was manufactured in 1934, there is quite a strong chance that it was itself a refugee from the Nazis. I asked Marcus Roberts of Roberts Pianos about its history, but he was reasonably circumspect, saying that they bought it privately after the owner's death. It isn't difficult to ascertain that it has been resting, unused, for a very long time. It seems to have its original action, wrest plank etc. and the case is in lovely condition. Roberts French polished it to restore it to its former glory. The original photos on the Roberts website show it in a very faded and sun-bleached state, but otherwise it's fine.
Edit: just checked. Serial number 118939 which, according to the Blüthner website, makes my piano a 1935 job. I also discovered that the Nazis commandeered their factory to make munitions boxes during the war.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axY3t0ZEmKQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axY3t0ZEmKQ)
Too many mistakes.
Just watched it. Well done.
-
Further updates.
My piano is 1935, not 1934. The number 118000 was the last of the year, not the first.
The manager of the Blüthner showrooms in London had never heard the "refugee pianos" story. He said he was going to contact the Leipzig office to see if they had any records of this. He said they had a record of a piano with my serial number being manufactured in late 1935 and sold in the London showroom in May 1936. However, their record showed a much smaller piano than mine - a style VI (4' 8") rather than a style VIII 6' 3").
I have also been having a bash at Beethoven's "Appassionata". The first movement is very long and bloody impossible.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axY3t0ZEmKQ
Too many mistakes.
Nice one Wow! If you practice hard and get a bit better I might let you in my Epiphany band :thumbsup:
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axY3t0ZEmKQ
Too many mistakes.
Nice one Wow! If you practice hard and get a bit better I might let you in my Epiphany band :thumbsup:
My kazoo playing is out of this world.
-
David should have the challenge of torslanda's rehomed Godwin Supersonic electric organ as well as his multiple pianos, in a few days' time.
Should be fun but there's no space.
Might hold a limited soirée...
...eventually.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axY3t0ZEmKQ
Too many mistakes.
Nice one Wow! If you practice hard and get a bit better I might let you in my Epiphany band :thumbsup:
My kazoo playing is out of this world.
That is an off the cuff comment you could come to regret :demon: Ensure you are available on Saturday 6th January 2018!
-
Lovely stuff Peter. I hope you have many happy hours playing :thumbsup:
-
Thank you all for your generous comments, and not shooting me!
This weekend I am going to record Schubert's G♭Impromptu. This will be put on Youtube specifically for my younger (Melbourne) daughter's birthday, which is next Friday. It takes about 10 minutes to play all the way through and although I'm reasonably proficient, I do make too many errors to be able to do a faultless straight-through take. However, Dez is a very good editor and he will be using several cameras to switch between at the critical moments! ;)
It's an appropriate piece in many ways, not least because Schubert did longing pretty well better than any other composer, I reckon. I have only been playing it for a little over a month so she has never heard it, or at least has never heard me play it. Hitherto, her favourite piece that she has heard me play is Debussy's first Arabesque, which is also an emotional piece, but I reckon Schubert beats it by quite some distance.
-
OT, this post.
Roberts have recently taken into stock two wonderful modern upright pianos which I would really like to buy if I were in the position of wanting to buy another piano. They have Bösendorfer (1991) and a Bechstein (2006). £12500 and £9750 respectively. Absolutely stunning. There is also a Seiler (1990), a make I have never played, but seemingly a bloody good piano, for £7700.
-
You could buy a bike for that!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeEB69-Mudg&feature=push-u&attr_tag=lM7Q24pTX8XRDuCu-6
Hmmm...
I spent nearly two hours playing that 1899 Blüthner (first piano in the video) when I was in their shop in September, trying to persuade myself that it was the piano for me, but it wasn't. I think Marcus Roberts is being disingenuous when he says "It's strong right up to the top". It was decidedly weak in the 5th and 6th octaves and that was why I rejected it. It is very frustrating when there is nothing whatever you can do about the high notes being drowned out by the low notes in loud sections. It's a lovely piano to play for quiet, sonorous pieces (Debussy's 1st Arabesque sounded absolutely wonderful, even with me trying to murder it) but the loud bits from Beethoven's Pathetique were feeble. Also, it's got Blüthner's patent action, which the man says himself in another video really isn't suitable for a pianist above grade 6 standard.
They have had that particular piano in stock for months and its price has dropped in that time by by £3500. It's probably the most beautiful piano, visually, that I have ever seen, but I don't buy an instrument for its looks.
Edit: Jan just watched the video and as soon as he said it she remarked "It wasn't strong right up to the top!"
The Bechstein Model III he mentions later in the video is identical to my old piano, that now resides in Maidstone. He is putting a new tuning block in that and that is what gives it its £9000 price tag. Sadly, the casework on mine is really shabby so there would be no financial justification for such an expensive restoration. Mine is still holding its pitch, although for how much longer remains to be seen. It's old enough (1891) that Carl Bechstein himself may have overseen its manufacture. He died in 1900.
-
As with bikes, really, you want to be getting the best you can afford. Make sure it's structurally sound, and nothing out of alignment.
Of course, ideally you want carbon fibre, and some people would insist on Campag keys, though I'd prefer Shimano.
A Brooks stool sets off the finest classic piano nicely.
There's a restored Blüthner for sale in a Kent showroom that has a carbon fibre soundboard! I suspect Mr. C was being humorous when he posted that, but these things really exist, apparently.
http://hurstwoodfarmpianos.co.uk/pianodetails.php?page=usedpianos&pcid=3&pid=21
-
Now you just need to commission the Brooks stool😂
-
The stool I am using was given to me in compensation when I complained that my piano wasn't as advertised (to me, "perfect mechanical condition" does not include the damper felts dropping off because the glue is so old). It was manufactured by a small Cotwolds-based joinery/cabinet maker, I understand.
http://www.closa.co.uk/about/
This one has a studio assistant called Clare Brooks, but I fear that's the closest we are going to get.
Also, http://www.phoenixpianos.co.uk/.
-
Hurstwood is a rather enterprising 'diversification' for a cider apple farm!
David's Kawai grand has some carbon fibre in the action.
-
Brooks saddles as furniture is apparently a real thing.
https://www.luxdeco.com/brooks-leather-saddle-stool/
-
Brooks saddles as furniture is apparently a real thing.
https://www.luxdeco.com/brooks-leather-saddle-stool/
That looks decidedly precarious for piano playing. You might develop a Liszt.
-
I went to visit my old piano today. By coincidence, our daughter and grandchildren were around for some of the time as well.
I am delighted to be able to report that it has stayed in tune very well. It is 4 months since it was tuned. I am also pleased to say that my son-in-law is taking piano lessons! He is particularly keen to play bluesy style stuff, which I am totally unqualified to teach! But I did play some Bach today and it (the piano) sounded really good. I think my rendition of the Bach was good in parts.
-
Marcus Roberts, when he visited us in November, earmarked tomorrow for another visit for tuning/voicing the piano. I put it in my diary at the time - quite unusually well organised for me. I needn't have bothered. I contacted the company today to check that he was still coming, not having heard anything, and had a reply that a visit to us is not in his diary.
So I now have firmly placed in my mind that Roberts Pianos is a good place to get a lovely piano but the man himself I think might be struggling with his memory. He isn't in his first flush of youth. The place exudes craftsmanship when you get there - a small staff but very professional in my view. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if they find the Old Man rather a trial.
-
Arising out of the above, the February 9th visit has now been moved to 13th March, then 3rd April, 17th April and now he finds he's short-staffed and has pushed it onto 22nd May. I have let him know that I am extremely pissed off, not least because the piano's dampers still aren't as they should be (some of them allow notes to continue just a fraction of a second too long) and there are one or two slightly "tinny" notes in a piano which otherwise has a beautifully mellow tone. Also, the terms of the 5 year guarantee are that it is tuned not less than every 6 months, by a tuner recommended by them, with a first tuning recommended at 3 months. When he came in November, which was about 7 weeks after it was delivered, it didn't need tuning, and it's not badly out of tune now - apparently Blüthner pianos have excellent stability - but it comes to something when the man himself finds he can't meet the terms of his own guarantee. He has also griped that it is a very long way to come - well, the distance between Oxford & Southend hasn't become any greater since he sold the bloody thing to me. His website boasts of a customer near Lands End. I wonder what sort of after-sales service that guy got?
He has given me dispensation to get another tuner in, so I will contact Val Hodgson, who last tuned my Bechstein before it went to Maidstone.
The conclusion I have drawn is that Roberts Pianos of Oxford sell wonderful pianos but that they are really shit at after sales service.
-
We're just back from Welsh Wales but David perused the Piano Auctions website last night. There was an auction on April 12. Seems there was WIDE disparity 'twixt valuation and hammer price for some items, though some were spot on.
-
Eventually Marcus Roberts arrived in late June and did some work to improve the damping.
We have another appointment set up for tomorrow. I had an email from him dated 26th June to say that he has 'put that in the diary and we look forward to seeing you then" but nothing since. I asked Jan whether she thought that I should send him a reminder / ask what time he's coming but she said "No. Let him fail to keep the appointment."
-
Good grief! An email to say he will be here between 9 and 11!
-
And he's been and gone. I reckon the piano is pretty much perfect now. There was glue and some new damper felts. It really is a pleasure to play, without the occasional steel drum/ waa-waa guitar after-tones on a few of the notes around middle C. It has taken 10 months...
-
Sounds like you're on the home straight now, thankfully!
We had 18 months of unhappiness before our Kawai arrived, nearly two years ago. Being new, it hasn't settled completely yet.
-
My limited experience of Kawais is that they are very good pianos.
I have been celebrating my piano now being pretty much as it should be by playing Bach. Lots of Bach.
-
We have a part of a day planned for Bösendorfer.
The guy from whom I bought my Blüthner was of the opinion that the Blüthner brand hadn't yet recovered from the period during which it was under the Nazis and then behind the Iron Curtain. Why Bechstein weren't subject to the same strictures I don't know. Were they in W. Berlin?
-
We went to the Blüthner showrooms in Baker Street yesterday and I tried out a number of pianos valued somewhere in excess of £250000. The best was a 9' 2" concert grand, which was priced at £127,995. There were two of these. Wonderful things, with a really rich, growly bass, but a bit big for our music room, I fear. We also saw the record card of the original sale of our piano, in 1936, for £189, to someone in Brentwood.
-
We spent an hour or so at Bösendorfer this morning. It was wonderful! I spent the entire time on an Imperial Grand - what an instrument that is! Unfortunately the room in Roadrunner’s first photo, above, was off limits for us as the tuner was having trouble with a recalcitrant grand piano, so I couldn’t try the white one - the “Beethoven” model that Mrs. RR was playing.
-
Small linguistic fact: the German word for grand piano is a Flugel - wing. More to do with the general shape than aerodynamics, I’d wager.
-
Anything will fly if you get it going fast enough.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
-
It's the landing that's tricky
-
Apparently, flying pianos first took off (!) on the Hindenburg. Blüthner made a special with an aluminium frame. It cut the weight down by 100kg or something.
Jan and I spent a happy time at the Klaviergalerie, only a short team ride from our accommodation. I played an 1868 Blüthner there, a Steinway D274 (their top concert grand) and several others. Of all the modern pianos I have played, I very much like the Feurichs, another Viennese brand, although quite a lot of their models are manufactured in China.
-
We spent an hour or so at Bösendorfer this morning. It was wonderful! I spent the entire time on an Imperial Grand - what an instrument that is! Unfortunately the room in Roadrunner’s first photo, above, was off limits for us as the tuner was having trouble with a recalcitrant grand piano, so I couldn’t try the white one - the “Beethoven” model that Mrs. RR was playing.
Wow, I think the next wonderful piano you need to try is the one belonging to The Compasses, Littley Green. An evening early in January next year would be most convenient, I'll be in touch nearer the time to firm up details :thumbsup:
-
We spent an hour or so at Bösendorfer this morning. It was wonderful! I spent the entire time on an Imperial Grand - what an instrument that is! Unfortunately the room in Roadrunner’s first photo, above, was off limits for us as the tuner was having trouble with a recalcitrant grand piano, so I couldn’t try the white one - the “Beethoven” model that Mrs. RR was playing.
Wow, I think the next wonderful piano you need to try is the one belonging to The Compasses, Littley Green. An evening early in January next year would be most convenient, I'll be in touch nearer the time to firm up details :thumbsup:
I played that quite a few years ago whilst there with Del & Peli. As pub pianos go, it was very good. It’s a Bechstein - one of the smaller uprights, probably a model 9 or 10. There was a copy of the Mozart A major sonata (K331) on the stand - the first movement sounds as though it inspired the nursery rhyme “Rock-a-bye Baby”, so quite appropriate for a Mid-Essex camping night. The last movement is the famed Rondo alla Turka, which of course “everyone” knows.
Just in case they don’t, https://youtu.be/quxTnEEETbo.
-
You’re hired!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHFpZxUoFkk&feature=push-sd&attr_tag=zhOAuFmZPvIlZ70t%3A6
Not that old as pianos go, but that's the smaller version of the one I played in Vienna. Absolutely wonderful pianos.
-
Just home from evening at RFH with Sir Andras Schiff playing Brahms and Schumann on an 1860 straight strung Blüthner.
Wonderful sound!
ETA Image (https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54514511_1384939468312341_4674554207812976640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr4-2.fna&oh=161a8e9b8aafc8ffabaf9cf3bbce973f&oe=5D4354FA)
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHFpZxUoFkk&feature=push-sd&attr_tag=zhOAuFmZPvIlZ70t%3A6
Not that old as pianos go, but that's the smaller version of the one I played in Vienna. Absolutely wonderful pianos.
Thanks WoW. I don't know much about pianos and how they work (bar a hammer hits a string) and that was really interesting.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHFpZxUoFkk&feature=push-sd&attr_tag=zhOAuFmZPvIlZ70t%3A6
Not that old as pianos go, but that's the smaller version of the one I played in Vienna. Absolutely wonderful pianos.
Thanks WoW. I don't know much about pianos and how they work (bar a hammer hits a string) and that was really interesting.
Take a look at loads of Marcus Roberts' videos. It was the informative videos which persuaded me to buy from him. Pity he didn't make a video about the crap after sales service... ;)
In fairness, eventually he did put the problems right in my piano, but it look far longer than it ought have done. His remedy should have been to take it back to Oxford as soon as the problem presented itself and lend me one of similar quality while he fixed it. It took two of them two full-day visits some months apart until I was properly happy with it. I found out afterwards that his second-in-command had suffered a brain haemorrhage whilst on a flight back from S. Africa and of course in a small (8 people) company that makes a lot of difference. Happily the guy survived to tell the tale but the docs reckon he was pretty lucky to pull through.
-
'Things move slowly in the piano trade' was what we were told during our 2015 Summer of Discontent.
We suffered much financial loss and interminable waits as we shuttled between multiple supposedly reputable piano dealers between February 2015 and September 2016.
-
Have just discovered this thread. I have a faithful servant of a Yamaha Digital Piano which has served well for my stress relieving improvisations for the last 15 years or so, but its action is more tired than I am after 32 years of working in big accountancy/consultancy firms.
Inspired by CET Junior passing his grade 8 bassoon exam, I am now retaking lessons with the idea of taking grade 8 piano later this year. I've been playing pieces at or above this level but with a rubbish technique, not helped by a worn out piano. So I'm contemplating a replacement, so am interested in recommendations. (Although the ability to practice with headphones on to minimise disruption to family who also have to schedule drum, bassoon, recorder, and cello practices is a huge advantage). For my rock, blues and prog improvisations there's a Korg synthesiser and Yamaha thingy upstairs on a very Jon-Lord like double stand - so the piano can be lovingly restricted to classical music, although I play more from the second half of c19 and first half of c20 than from c18 and before.
The grade 8 won't be a one-off. I might be a few years off retirement, but I want to take playing more seriously whilst I still have all my faculties and my hands go vaguely in the direction the brain wants them to.
With all that in mind, suggestions for a replacement will be welcome. Thank you in advance.
-
The sky's the limit!
Marcus Roberts does not recommend acoustic pianos with a silent system but it sounds like this would fit the bill for you.
If you are in this neck of the woods, you could do worse than to pop in and play the keyboards here that have reproduced without adequate Family Planning.
PM me for details...
-
"Silent" systems on acoustic pianos makes the keys marginally less sensitive, so I'm told. It is pretty marginal.
Feurich, as sold by Roberts, do fit a silent system. I think I played one of these in Vienna, where they are designed and some are manufactured, but I can't recall any particular problems with it. I played lots of different pianos in that showroom.
Bösendorfer have their own peculiar system which also records and the piano will faithfully reproduce the piece you have played. I've never tried this but it won't be cheap.
-
Thinking of old pianos reminds me of this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn-KEbvCckg
-
Thinking of old pianos reminds me of this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn-KEbvCckg
Valentina Lisitsa is a wonderful pianist.
-
Yesterday Jan and I attended a recital/lecture in which the pianist was using an 1870-ish straight-strung Broadwood grand.
-
Is straight stringing getting trendy in a retro way?
-
Marcus Roberts isn't altogether against it. I think from a technician's point of view they are easier to work on, and whereas cross-stringing tends to improve the sound of the bass notes, he argues that the tenor/treble parts of the piano are where you play most of the notes and where those strings are longer you tend to get a better tone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRUsieTk8Yw is informative.
-
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2190701&make=Bechstein&model=7
That's an absolutely gorgeous instrument. My Bechstein, currently residing with my daughter, is a Model III, not so tall as the Model 7. The taller the upright, the longer the bass strings and the more resonant the tone. That video does that piano justice.
I played an even taller piano than that at the Bluthner showrooms last year. It was new, and I thought that the keys were heavy. However, I suspect that some of that may have become looser with playing. It had a lovely tone though.
-
I have just been playing an ancient Broadwood at Rufford Old Hall, Lancs. it is very similar to the piano I played a couple of weeks ago in a church in Rotherhithe, and also the piano used in a concert I attended in April. This one has wooden pedals, which makes me think it might be rather earlier than the 1880-odd that the staff suggested for its year of manufacture.
-
http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/catalogue.php
I always take an interest in what is being sold and for how much.
Lot 74:
Bechstein grand piano (c1853) A grand piano in a rosewood case with carved scroll cheeks and leg supports; on turned octagonal legs and lyre pedals. This piano is believed to be the earliest known example of this maker.
:o
Wikipedia states that Carl Bechstein set up shop in 1853.
-
Suspect David will wander off there. Hope he doesn't bid and returns to take me to vote...
-
I could drop in and have a gander. I did a couple of years ago when I was in the process of buying my piano. As it happens, Jon's trial has been put back to 12th December at Westminster magistrates' court. I could kill two (jail) birds with one stone!
-
(http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/cmsdata/lotpics/103.jpg)
Not that old. A Bösendorfer Imperial Grand for sale in next Thursday's auction at Conway hall, London. Dated 1972, and expected to fetch about £20000. Count the keys: a full 8 octaves! I was under the impression that the 9 extra keys, all at the bass clef end, were either covered up* for normal use, or all black.
There are very few pieces that demand the use of the extra keys. The Bösendorfer company designed the piano for Busoni when he decided to transcribe Bach organ fugues for the piano. However, they do add extra richness to the harmonics when the sustaining pedal is depressed.
In my view, it's a strong contender for the best piano ever made. That photo looks as though it was taken in a concert hall. I don't recognise it.
*I suspect that that sloping part on the left hand end of the keyboard might fold over to cover the extra keys.
-
D will be off to view the pianos again today and will attend the auction tomorrow.
We have neither the money nor the space for another piano but....
I saw this https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/garden/thinking-of-refinishing-your-own-piano-dont.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/garden/thinking-of-refinishing-your-own-piano-dont.html) while doing some reading...
-
He's taken a shine to Lot 23, a 1924 Bechstein 6ft grand. I suspect it might need a complete rebuild as its estimated price is low. We've had our fingers burnt once with a piano of a similar age from elsewhere, at higher price. I just hope he doesn't bid for it or at least doesn't win it.
I REALLY don't want the 'Right Said Fred' saga we had with the Grotrian Steinweg!
-
Slightly off topic, but it's my Grade 8 piano exam today, and assuming it goes well, that means a trip to Ben Wheeler in Little London to have a look at replacing my tired 18 year old Yamaha Digital.
-
Slightly off topic, but it's my Grade 8 piano exam today, and assuming it goes well, that means a trip to Ben Wheeler in Little London to have a look at replacing my tired 18 year old Yamaha Digital.
Good luck!
-
Slightly off topic, but it's my Grade 8 piano exam today, and assuming it goes well, that means a trip to Ben Wheeler in Little London to have a look at replacing my tired 18 year old Yamaha Digital.
Good luck indeed! What pieces are you playing?
-
Slightly off topic, but it's my Grade 8 piano exam today, and assuming it goes well, that means a trip to Ben Wheeler in Little London to have a look at replacing my tired 18 year old Yamaha Digital.
Good Luck!
David's gone to the auction; I don't know what will transpire. We might have some surplus keyboard instruments. You know where we are!
David has successfully eliminated an extraneous sound from the Kemble upright with silent system.
-
D did not get Lot 23, which went for £1000. I wonder if there are unseen issues.
Anyway, I'm relieved there's not turkey/white elephant in black, heading here YET!
-
Slightly off topic, but it's my Grade 8 piano exam today, and assuming it goes well, that means a trip to Ben Wheeler in Little London to have a look at replacing my tired 18 year old Yamaha Digital.
Good luck indeed! What pieces are you playing?
Mozart - Allegro (1st movement) Soanta in B flat K570
This was the piece I found hardest after 40 years without piano lessons (I started proper study again in February) as it needed discipline (you mean I have to stick to a time signature) but actually went the best in the exam
Ireland - Elegy from a Downland Suite
Right up my street and should have been my best piece until I made a horlicks of the crescendo at the end - but the rest of it went well.
Bartok - Allegretto (1st movement) from Suite Op 14
Great fun to play but it was a bit scrappy in places - hopefully the examiner will look at the substance rather than the form.
Scales and improvisation (its Trinity) went OK, but the sightreading was a dream - having struggled all year and been resigned to losing most of the marks on this bit, I got an adagio with no awkward chords and was able to play it pretty much intact and even put in a few dynamics.
So am now looking at the ACTL Diploma list - there are a few things on it that I've taught myself to play (not to exam standard) so wondering whether to take the easy route of brushing up past efforts, or leaping into totally new territory - fascinated by the idea of playing Regard de la Vierge from Messiaen's Vingt Regards
-
Thanks. I shall have to look at those pieces.
I have concentrated so much in Bach, Beethoven & Mozart that I have never learned anything, or next to nothing, from some piano composers. I would include Brahms, Schumann, and Mendelssohn, and I have played very little 20th century music: I think just a couple of exam pieces, one by Bartok and another by Prokofiev. I have also neglected Haydn and Schubert, although I know the latter's Impromptus (Op 90) pretty well.
I have played a few of Chopin's preludes, and I have recently been learning the waltz, Op64 no2 in C sharp minor (op 64 no 1 is the Minute Waltz). I have recorded this for my pal Penny's birthday next week, but it is awaiting Dez editing out the mistakes!
Edit: if you ever fancy a trip to Saarfend to try out my Blüthner, let me know.
If you are preparing to buy an acoustic piano, the videos at https://www.robertspianos.com/ are very informative. I can't give Roberts my unqualified approval though, as there was a problem with my piano which took months to sort out and I felt their after-sales service was poor. There were mitigating circumstances in that one of their 8 staff, the second-in-command, was very ill and lucky to survive, but they didn't keep me properly informed as to why they were so slack in making good the faults on the piano (damper felts dropping off). They should have just dispatched another similar piano to me and taken the Bluthner back for the work to be done in house. It's lovely now, but it took at least 6 months of me tearing my hair out trying to get Marcus Roberts to respond properly.
-
<Things move slowly in the piano world> was told to David when we had MONTHS of tardy service from several people and places in 2015-2016.
This was a very costly and lengthy nightmare!
-
<Things move slowly in the piano world> was told to David when we had MONTHS of tardy service from several people and places in 2015-2016.
This was a very costly and lengthy nightmare!
That's why I'm tempted to use a piano specialist who is based only a few miles from home. Also wondering whether it is worth persuading Mrs CET that we should keep the ancient Yamaha digital for practice and ask the kind piano movers to take it upstairs to the spare room where there is a perfect piano-sized space....
Then I could get a purely acoustic device for the living room.
I'm beginning to think that pianos are like bicycles, where the number you need is n+1 where n = current number owned, constrained by d-1 where d = number of pianos that will result in separation...
-
David has just seen the 97 key Bösendorfer that Marcus bought for £16K on Thursday is on sale for £55K in January, after Marcus has polished it.
-
David has just seen the 97 key Bösendorfer that Marcus bought for £16K on Thursday is on sale for £55K in January, after Marcus has polished it.
Bloody hell! I could have bought that! I think it might have dominated the lounge rather...
-
David has just seen the 97 key Bösendorfer that Marcus bought for £16K on Thursday is on sale for £55K in January, after Marcus has polished it.
Bloody hell! I could have bought that! I think it might have dominated the lounge rather...
Lot 103 http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/catalogue.php (http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/catalogue.php) Do you have space for a 9'6" behemoth? REAL ivory keys!
-
I could have made room!
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2191208&make=Bosendorfer&model=Imperial
That's really frustrating! I have been to St. Andrews on choral courses twice in the past 18 months and never got the chance to play that piano. I only ever played one in Vienna. Part of our course was in the Younger Hall but the Bösendorfer was never on display.
I wonder how much it cost them to transport it from St. Andrews to London?
-
Here's my latest recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhSs6d3-xA
TBH the editing is probably better than the playing... ;)
-
Here's my latest recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhSs6d3-xA
TBH the editing is probably better than the playing... ;)
I enjoyed that.
-
Marvelous, I feel uplifted😊
-
By the way, I'm reading the music from an A4 ipad and turning the pages using a Bluetooth pedal operated with my left foot.
-
Nicely done Wow, and fingers crossed for you CET.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
-
I wondered what the extra pedal on some grand pianos is for. Now I know.
No, that's not the one! That's the so-called "sostenuto" pedal. My piano only has the two, the sustaining pedal, which lifts all the dampers off for extra resonance, and the una corda (one string) or "soft" pedal. That shifts the entire keyboard and action slightly to the left so that a different bit of the hammer's felt hits the string. Technicians talk of "voicing the una corda" which means they stick tiny needles into the felt of the hammers so that bits of it are softer than others. I think it must be a very intricate and painstaking job. On an upright piano, rather than sticking needles into the felt, all the hammers are pushed closer to the strings so that it is possible to play with more delicacy. This means that it is possible to ensure that the hammer hits the string at a lower velocity, thus the sound is less.
The sostenuto pedal enables the pianist to hold down a chord and if the sostenuto pedal is then depressed, the dampers of just those notes will be held back even when the keys are released. This enables some notes to be held on whilst the fingers go and play a load of other notes elsewhere. I believe this innovation was introduced by Steinway in about 1910. I have rarely played a piano with a third pedal* and never had cause to use it. The only pedal you use regularly is the sustaining pedal. The pedals are normally made of brass and you can tell how much use the piano has had as the sustaining pedal will have been worn down by decades' worth of shoes pushing it up and down.
*When we were in Vienna last year, we visited a piano showroom in which a Feurich grand had a 4th pedal fitted. That does something a bit weird, and makes the piano sound as though it's in a rickety old cathedral.
The bluetooth pedal is something with a built-in battery which just sits on the floor to my left and I give it a shove with my left foot at the right time.
A year or so ago Jan and I attended a concert at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester in which the soloist Lars Vogt actually had an iPad inside his piano! He was using his left foot to turn the pages, although I was rather surprised that a virtuoso would not have memorised the piece. It was Beethoven's 4th concerto, so very much part of the standard repertoire.
Edit: here's a video demonstrating the harmonic pedal. Feurich is an old make of piano and the name has recently been reintroduced by Wendell & Lung.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7z6cYWjr3Q
-
[Slightly OT]
What brand of page turner are you using? David says he has seen 'better' ones than the one he currently has.
I'm not sure any turner will give wonderful service on our VERY deep pile carpet without some sort of rigid backboard.
-
I think mine is something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/173785882241?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=173785882241&targetid=594043253430&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007216&poi=&campaignid=6466403028&mkgroupid=78240852180&rlsatarget=aud-629407027105:pla-594043253430&abcId=1140486&merchantid=7389664&gclid=CjwKCAiAluLvBRASEiwAAbX3GaaoyUSJR5ER3sNX8DnJOxMOJkMVNt296KtrI5J-rTaS_mMh79zlEhoCj6cQAvD_BwE
-
I found this video https://youtu.be/mHP332XDJlg (https://youtu.be/mHP332XDJlg)
Looks like I can build one for less than £10
-
I think the line about the 3rd pedal might have been intended as a joke?
My parents had a "boudoir grand" piano that had 3 pedals (my sister has it now). The middle pedal never worked all the time we had it - I assume either it couldn't be fixed or would have cost too much to fix; the piano was tuned regularly.
-
The middle pedal on ours, according to my son, is a "practice pedal" that mutes the sound
-
I think the line about the 3rd pedal might have been intended as a joke?
Well spotted. It was.
I realised that after I had posted my screed, and rr had responded. I couldn't even b arsed to post a facepalm.
Having said that, i gained the impression from the Lars Vogt concert that one of hte other pedals had been wired up to operate the ipad.
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_pedals#Sostenuto_pedal
It seems that the sostenuto pedal was first introduced by the French in the first half of the 19th century. Albert Steinway perfected it in 1874 but it only caught on in the US. Albert was son of Heinrich Steinweg who began making pianos in Germany. Albert Steinway died only 3 years later at the age of 37.
There's a complicated lot of business in which Steinway sued Steinweg in the 1960s. Grotrian-Steinweg is an European make but as a result of the 1960s lawsuit, their pianos are known as Grotrians in the US. Steinways are also made in Hamburg, as well as New York.
Steinway is now owned by a hedge fund company, Paulsen & Co, Inc. The company has a very aggressive policy towards other piano makers in that they sponsor promising pianists and make them sign a contract that they won't pay anyone else's pianos. It's not 100% successful: Oscar Peterson famously played a Bösendorfer and asked his agent "Where can I get a box like this?" It then became his preferred brand of piano. Bosendorfer make grands and uprights, but produce only about 300 pianos a year. Steinway produce about 1000 grands and 250 uprights a year in each of their factories.
-
I wondered what the extra pedal on some grand pianos is for. Now I know.
The sostenuto pedal enables the pianist to hold down a chord and if the sostenuto pedal is then depressed, the dampers of just those notes will be held back even when the keys are released. This enables some notes to be held on whilst the fingers go and play a load of other notes elsewhere. I believe this innovation was introduced by Steinway in about 1910. I have rarely played a piano with a third pedal* and never had cause to use it. The only pedal you use regularly is the sustaining pedal. The pedals are normally made of brass and you can tell how much use the piano has had as the sustaining pedal will have been worn down by decades' worth of shoes pushing it up and down.
Prokofiev's Visions Fugitive #16 Dolente is only really playable with a sostenuto pedal. (There is a sustained bass chord which is held long after the left and right hands are needed elsewhere). This was composed somewhere between 1915 and 1917, so may have been the composer taking advantage of the new technology. As it's a possible diploma piece I will be looking for a piano with one if possible. My old Yamaha digital piano had one but not my current one.
-
Slightly off topic, but it's my Grade 8 piano exam today, and assuming it goes well, that means a trip to Ben Wheeler in Little London to have a look at replacing my tired 18 year old Yamaha Digital.
Good Luck!
David's gone to the auction; I don't know what will transpire. We might have some surplus keyboard instruments. You know where we are!
David has successfully eliminated an extraneous sound from the Kemble upright with silent system.
Results in today. 75/100, which is the minimum required for a merit :smug: and means there is now absolutely no excuse for a new piano :facepalm: The marks I gained by getting a lucky sightreading made up for not performing the Bartok very well.
-
Well done!
I would have thought that you have earned a new piano!
-
Well done!
I would have thought that you have earned a new piano!
That was what I thought. Your wife must have incredibly high standards!
-
Well done!
-
Had a delightful hour and a quarter at Ben Wheeler Pianos, which is a large steel shed on an industrial park in the middle of nowhere in Little London, all to myself and have decided on a new Kawai 600 with the Aures system so that I can practice through headphones. And my trusty old Yamaha Digital Piano is going to my first cousin once removed.
-
Kawai are GOOD!
The grammar pedant mused at the difference a comma would make between 'my trusty old Yamaha Digital Piano is going to my first cousin once removed.' and 'my trusty old Yamaha Digital Piano is going to my first cousin, once removed.'
-
A Facebook friend has posted that their piano technician has removed a visitor from the Bluthner...
(https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81515967_10157890140172380_1936997823492915200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=JkaYt8jswSsAQnaF29UxF9pY1YOPBsktui438zPQ4hxaUdyYtzh0jdQqA&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr4-2.fna&oh=9457833f9924daa51e0b3294c3c5cf1a&oe=5EB330B4)
-
I've played two or three Kawais and have been impressed. I think you tend to get a lot of good piano for your cash.
-
D has a Kawai grand in the lounge, bought 2nd hand at auction 3 years ago, but still partly wrapped in plastic and an electric piano in his shed, bought new.
They're nice...
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdjaILUFx-Y&pp=wgIECgIIAQ%3D%3D&feature=push-sd&attr_tag=QylumSVBbfec1MnQ%3A6
I just love the casework on that piano.
I first learned on a Bord piano, a Parisian make. It was, I thought, a fairly basic upright, but Marcus Roberts speaks fondly of them in that video.
They've done a most marvellous job on that piano. It really is a joy both visually and aurally. I can't see it on their stock list. I wonder if it has already been sold.
-
Those with space, money and interest might wish to know of an auction this coming Thursday.
That Pleyel Double Grand (Lot 19) seems lush!
https://auctions.dreweatts.com/auctions/7939/drewea1-10248 (https://auctions.dreweatts.com/auctions/7939/drewea1-10248)
-
An amazing instrument! The woman sitting at the piano in one of the photos is Madeleine Malraux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_Malraux
-
Indeed. If you download the full catalogue, there's much more about the piano's provenance & Madame Malraux.
Some of the other instruments are pretty special.
Might be fun just to watch the bidding online…
D tells me the last double Pleyel went at MUCH more than expected so this might do the same. I would need a BIG home and a stream of pianists...
-
(https://app.robertspianos.com/private/images/Bechstein-Model-III-Case-01.jpg)
That is rather lovely, and makes me a bit wistful: my Bechstein, now resident in Maidstone with my daughter, would have looked exactly like that at one time. Sadly, before I bought it in 1978, the dealer covered all that beauty in black polyester - probably because that's a cheap and quick way of making an old piano presentable, whereas a good French polish requires a craftsman. The one in that photo is from 1896. Mine is from 1891.
I was in conversation with a dealer a few years ago and he reckoned that it was much easier to sell a glossy black piano than any other colour. We were at the Conway Hall auctions at the time and he pointed at a very shiny Boston piano (made by Steinway) and said "That one would fly out the door, even though it sounds like a bag of spanners."
-
That's really lovely WoW. Wish we had room for one.
-
I've recently found out that Marcus Roberts, from whom I bought my piano, has recently opened a showroom in Houston, Texas. That's quite ambitious for someone I would have thought would be pretty close to selling up and retiring. I think he's a year or two younger than I am. His British showroom is in Oxford, although he did have a second one in Kent that he closed a few years ago.
-
He won’t need to sell people humidifiers to go with their joannas there.
-
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2220404&make=Bosendorfer&model=Imperial
It's not that old, but it's certainly a piano. Wonderful instrument, the Bösendorfer Imperial. 97 keys compared to the more normal 88, apparently designed because Busoni wanted to transcribe Bach organ fugues and 88 keys just weren't enough.
It's rather sad that regulations force Marcus Roberts to replace the ivory keys with plastic ones because it was manufactured after 1975. I wonder why he wasn't obliged to replace them when he bought it from whoever?
I played one in the Bösendorfer Vienna showroom a few years ago (2019?) when Jan and I spent a few days out there. Slightly offputting because the 9 extra keys are at the bass clef end and that means middle C is to the right of the centre of the piano rather than being slap bang in the middle.
-
It's 6 years ago today that my Blüthner arrived.
Here's me playing the gigue from J. S. Bach's B flat partita. I'd forgotten I'd recorded that. Not too many slips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TevZVX6x5mM&ab_channel=wowbagger1954
To see it done properly, see Grigory Sokolov https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlvNKc5pYrk&ab_channel=PianoLibrary
-
Yeah but Grigory doesn't have a bike in the background.
-
It's 6 years ago today that my Blüthner arrived.
Here's me playing the gigue from J. S. Bach's B flat partita. I'd forgotten I'd recorded that. Not too many slips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TevZVX6x5mM&ab_channel=wowbagger1954
To see it done properly, see Grigory Sokolov https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlvNKc5pYrk&ab_channel=PianoLibrary
As posted elsewhere, it's 7 years today since D's Kawai arrived.
-
Yeah but Grigory doesn't have a bike in the background.
That bike is now in Finland.