Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: rafletcher on 11 December, 2020, 12:07:30 pm

Title: Smart Plugs
Post by: rafletcher on 11 December, 2020, 12:07:30 pm
I recently invested in some TP-Link "Tapo" plugs, 3 for £25.  So far, so good. Much easier to set up than my original Amazon one (they have their own app of course). and so much easier to set up routines for turning on and off than using the Alexa app. Of course there is a Tapo skill for Alexa so you can enable voice control as well. Plus they have an override on/off button on the side so if you are out of voice/app range you can still get power.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Auntie Helen on 11 December, 2020, 12:58:13 pm
We have 10 different smart plugs around our flat. Four of them have a nifty electricity consumption feature so we can see what is drawing the most power (just for interest’s sake as our electricity costs are fixed in the rent payment).

Our biggest user by far is the computer plug for our 2 computers and 3 monitors. About 3.5 kWh per day. Kettle is 0.7 kWh per day on average, TV & sound bar together 0.3 kWh and my electric blanket 0.04 kWh on average per day.

The computers are a bit of a shocker!
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 11 December, 2020, 01:09:55 pm
I went round the house with a plug-in power meter and made a spreadsheet of our baseload.  It's mostly computers: About 150W total of server, router, modem, switches, cooling fans, Ethernet-powered phones and deaf alerters.  Another 12W for the fire alarm, and about the same in network-controlled LED lighting, and again in scrolly LED signs.

No TV or anything, but a couple of hundred watts for our desktops+monitors etc when they're on.

The other big one is the fridge, which is about 100W.  Duty cycle varies according to what's in it, of course.  Boiler is about the same.

I didn't find any unexpectedly high loads, even the shitty microwave only uses about 2 Watts.  I did find that the apparent power of the downstairs Ethernet switch and PoE injector PSU adds up to less than the sum of their individual loads...
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: fuaran on 11 December, 2020, 01:14:20 pm
I am wondering about these smart plugs. Which ones are any good?
Is it worth getting ZigBee, instead of WiFi? Would require a separate gateway hub thing.
Are any different brands compatible with each other, so can control them in the same app?
Do any of the apps work without an internet connection?

I want something that can be connect to my Google Home speakers, for voice control, and setting some scheduled routines. Maybe a light turning on will help me wake up in the morning.
So a few plugs would do for now. Though maybe nice to get a few colour changing bulbs as well.

I notice Lidl have some plugs and bulbs in this week. They use ZigBee, they have a bundle with the gateway.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Jurek on 11 December, 2020, 01:20:04 pm
I've opted for some radio-controlled plugs - which work a treat on all those 13amp sockets that are in hard-to-reach places.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: ScumOfTheRoad on 11 December, 2020, 01:20:21 pm
Fuaran, I have both the Philips hue hub and Amazon Basics smart plugs.
I think the Amazon plugs are great - just plug them in and work.
The Philips Hue hub is zigbee and you have the use the Philipps app and link this to Amazon .
A lot of the light bulbs in my house are now Hue compatible - there is a brand on Amazon which is cheaper than kosher hue ones but still compatible.

I would look at the Lidl  - it is cheap enough that you could retire it if you wand something more flash.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: grams on 11 December, 2020, 01:45:52 pm
The other big one is the fridge, which is about 100W.  Duty cycle varies according to what's in it, of course.

A pedant writes:
The duty cycle depends on how often you open it and the air temperature surrounding it. Its contents is immaterial unless you've just put a hot thing in.

When I playing with a second fridge for stuffs last summer in 28 C temperatures, the duty cycle was still under 20%, so it's a huge factor in actual consumption.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Quisling on 11 December, 2020, 02:22:28 pm
Four of them have a nifty electricity consumption feature so we can see what is drawing the most power

Can you point me at which product this is, I'm interested!

I've also done some measurements around our place.  Laptop - charging and in use 13W+, router 7.5W approx.
The interesting one is the old microwave.  I stupidly thought the load would vary for different power settings, but actually it just modulates on and off, spending more time off at lower settings.  The shocker was opening the door as it has an old incandescent lamp so it was pulling 20W with the door open; nearly as much as all the new LED kitchen lights.
Our 24 year old small chest freezer was the big user - 3kWh a day.  Soon ditched that for a A++ rated replacement and reduced our overall usage by about 20%!
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 11 December, 2020, 03:59:21 pm
The other big one is the fridge, which is about 100W.  Duty cycle varies according to what's in it, of course.

A pedant writes:
The duty cycle depends on how often you open it and the air temperature surrounding it. Its contents is immaterial unless you've just put a hot thing in.

GPWM about ambient temperature.  I don't notice the effect because it changes so slowly (I tend to look at day/weekly graphs to keep an eye on the fridge, which has previous for stuck thermostat).  Putting hot (well, usually room temperature) things in dominates the short-term variation in our fridge's duty cycle.  Door opening is a minor aberration, unless it doesn't close properly.

Hang on, I've got a screenshot from June, let's see what difference ambient temperature makes...

(https://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/random/fridgesensorgraph28day.sized.png)
(https://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/random/fridgesensor28day_winter.sized.png)

There we go, textbook.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 11 December, 2020, 04:07:25 pm
The interesting one is the old microwave.  I stupidly thought the load would vary for different power settings, but actually it just modulates on and off, spending more time off at lower settings.

Pretty much all microwaves work like this; you can hear the magnetron cutting in and out on the lower power settings.

I believe a few now drive it with an inverter, but not sure what advantage that has.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Auntie Helen on 11 December, 2020, 04:31:14 pm
Four of them have a nifty electricity consumption feature so we can see what is drawing the most power

Can you point me at which product this is, I'm interested!

I've also done some measurements around our place.  Laptop - charging and in use 13W+, router 7.5W approx.
The interesting one is the old microwave.  I stupidly thought the load would vary for different power settings, but actually it just modulates on and off, spending more time off at lower settings.  The shocker was opening the door as it has an old incandescent lamp so it was pulling 20W with the door open; nearly as much as all the new LED kitchen lights.
Our 24 year old small chest freezer was the big user - 3kWh a day.  Soon ditched that for a A++ rated replacement and reduced our overall usage by about 20%!
The ones I bought with the electricity measuring are these:

https://smile.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07B911Y6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1&fpw=alm

They work with the Smart Life App, Alexa and Google Home.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Feanor on 11 December, 2020, 04:38:02 pm
I believe a few now drive it with an inverter, but not sure what advantage that has.

Just cost, I think.

Heavy iron and copper HV transformers are expensive.
SMPSes are cheap.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Diver300 on 11 December, 2020, 05:55:30 pm
The interesting one is the old microwave.  I stupidly thought the load would vary for different power settings, but actually it just modulates on and off, spending more time off at lower settings.

Pretty much all microwaves work like this; you can hear the magnetron cutting in and out on the lower power settings.

I believe a few now drive it with an inverter, but not sure what advantage that has.
The first microwave I had actually did low power with a different winding on the transformer, but it only had two power settings.

An inverter will handle variable voltage supplies better, and can probably run the microwave at reduced power without turning on and off.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: grams on 11 December, 2020, 06:16:59 pm
Just cost, I think.

Heavy iron and copper HV transformers are expensive.
SMPSes are cheap.

Cheapo ones have a big transformer. Inverters are only found in premium (mostly Panasonic) models.

Quote
Unlike other microwave ovens, Inverter Technology delivers a seamless stream of cooking power –– even at lower settings –– for precision cooking that preserves the flavor and texture of your favorite foods. Other microwaves mimic lower heat settings by turning the power on and off repeatedly, which can result in overcooked edges and cool spots in the middle. With Inverter, you can poach, braise and even steam more delicate foods, all with the speed and convenience of a microwave. You'll enjoy delicious, healthy cooking results, and all in less time

They also claim it's 3 kg lighter.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: FifeingEejit on 11 December, 2020, 07:59:44 pm
The interesting one is the old microwave.  I stupidly thought the load would vary for different power settings, but actually it just modulates on and off, spending more time off at lower settings.

Pretty much all microwaves work like this; you can hear the magnetron cutting in and out on the lower power settings.

I believe a few now drive it with an inverter, but not sure what advantage that has.

It's quite fun running a 700w microwave on a 1kw petrol generator*.


* Assuming you don't own the generator, which the time I was present whne it was done, I did.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 11 December, 2020, 08:06:09 pm
Probably best if you don't own the microwave, either.  Unless you got it from freecycle for roasting AOL CDs.

What are they like for power factor?  Maybe using an inverter improves that...
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: ian on 11 December, 2020, 08:27:26 pm
Hold on, what kind of sundry madness is being proposed here? Microwaves that operate at values less than 100%. That's the sort of foolishness that will have you turning guitar amps down from the max.

I know only one setting on our washer, but I'm not allowed to even use that, because just don't. Works fine despite being Italian, just don't try to use it between midday and three pm or during the month of August.

I know, I've merged this thread into the washing machine thread. Cunning.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: TimC on 12 December, 2020, 04:52:45 am
Four of them have a nifty electricity consumption feature so we can see what is drawing the most power

Can you point me at which product this is, I'm interested!

I've also done some measurements around our place.  Laptop - charging and in use 13W+, router 7.5W approx.
The interesting one is the old microwave.  I stupidly thought the load would vary for different power settings, but actually it just modulates on and off, spending more time off at lower settings.  The shocker was opening the door as it has an old incandescent lamp so it was pulling 20W with the door open; nearly as much as all the new LED kitchen lights.
Our 24 year old small chest freezer was the big user - 3kWh a day.  Soon ditched that for a A++ rated replacement and reduced our overall usage by about 20%!
The ones I bought with the electricity measuring are these:

https://smile.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07B911Y6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1&fpw=alm

They work with the Smart Life App, Alexa and Google Home.

I can't find any UK equivalent. Anybody else seen one?
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Auntie Helen on 12 December, 2020, 07:27:51 am
Four of them have a nifty electricity consumption feature so we can see what is drawing the most power

Can you point me at which product this is, I'm interested!
The ones I bought with the electricity measuring are these:

https://smile.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07B911Y6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1&fpw=alm

They work with the Smart Life App, Alexa and Google Home.

I can't find any UK equivalent. Anybody else seen one?
Seems like this type is only for US or Euro sockets unfortunately. I assume some other manufacturer will pop up and provide them soon enough.

They are more reliable than our other smart plugs, which don’t have energy measuring.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: ian on 13 December, 2020, 06:48:46 pm
I am wondering about these smart plugs. Which ones are any good?
Is it worth getting ZigBee, instead of WiFi? Would require a separate gateway hub thing.
Are any different brands compatible with each other, so can control them in the same app?
Do any of the apps work without an internet connection?

I want something that can be connect to my Google Home speakers, for voice control, and setting some scheduled routines. Maybe a light turning on will help me wake up in the morning.
So a few plugs would do for now. Though maybe nice to get a few colour changing bulbs as well.

I notice Lidl have some plugs and bulbs in this week. They use ZigBee, they have a bundle with the gateway.

Before I got carried away with washing machines, I meant to say that I also have the Tapo plugs (because they were cheap and I've been happy with previous TP-Link stuff). They use the house wifi and have their own app. I presume they work without an internet connection, provided the wifi is there. They integrate with Alexa, so I can say 'Alexa, TV time' and the living room lamps come on and the others go off. And 'Alexa, bedtime' is evidently the big turnoff for her. I have two lamps on sunset timers which saves the faff of forever changing the previous manual timers. Easy to set up, just plug them in and wave your phone in their vicinity.

It's all very first world, but this thread has reminded me that I was going to get a couple more.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: fuaran on 23 December, 2020, 08:49:57 pm
I bought the Lidl gateway, and a couple of plugs. Easy enough to setup. Seems its made by Tuya, so can use their app instead of the Lidl branded version. Have linked it to Google Home, so works fine with voice commands.

Have one lamp set as part of my wake up routine.
I'm using the other plug for Christmas lights, so I don't have to crawl behind the TV to switch them on.
Tempted by the LED strip, its getting some pretty good reviews, much cheaper than the Hue equivalent.

An interesting review here, including comparisons to the Hue stuff. And yes, it is all Zigbee, so should work with Hue or Amazon Echo etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVtGpdykGUM
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: FifeingEejit on 23 December, 2020, 11:19:34 pm
Probably best if you don't own the microwave, either.  Unless you got it from freecycle for roasting AOL CDs.

What are they like for power factor?  Maybe using an inverter improves that...

It is a really crap cheap one that came with the motorhome, and I'd already cooked by tea on a propane burner.

The genny basically spun up and down its rev range constantly.

1kw Honda 4 Stroke thing.
Think the input required on the micro is 1200kw...

Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Valiant on 06 January, 2021, 08:24:10 am
I am wondering about these smart plugs. Which ones are any good?
Is it worth getting ZigBee, instead of WiFi? Would require a separate gateway hub thing.
Are any different brands compatible with each other, so can control them in the same app?
Do any of the apps work without an internet connection?

I want something that can be connect to my Google Home speakers, for voice control, and setting some scheduled routines. Maybe a light turning on will help me wake up in the morning.
So a few plugs would do for now. Though maybe nice to get a few colour changing bulbs as well.

I notice Lidl have some plugs and bulbs in this week. They use ZigBee, they have a bundle with the gateway.

Zigbee units are cross compatible if you have hubs, some Alexa units have it built in. Ideally you want zigbee as its local controlled but also eases the lod on your wifi network.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 06 January, 2021, 09:25:53 am
We've had Hive on our heating for a while together with some plug/sockets and light bulbs - all works pretty well . . . I'm just waiting for delivery on a Hive thermostatic radiator valve to try - reviews are mixed but that seems to be the TRV side that's the problem rather than the simple "on/off" which is what I want them for - to isolate specific rooms at scheduled times (e.g bedrooms during the day)   We'll see if they're any good.

I did try an Eqiva valve that doesn't require a hub as it's Bluetooth - after 4 hours of trying to set it up. it doesn't so it's winging it's way back to Mr Bezos.

We'll see on the Hive - not cheap but it's part of the overall single system.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Polar Bear on 06 January, 2021, 09:32:30 am
I am looking at buying a couple of tp link kasa 105 smart sockets to test with Google home and  if successful I can see a place for similar trv units.

Does anybody use smart light bulbs?
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: pcolbeck on 06 January, 2021, 09:45:54 am
I am looking at buying a couple of tp link kasa 105 smart sockets to test with Google home and  if successful I can see a place for similar trv units.

Does anybody use smart light bulbs?

Our living room / kitchen and tv room use Philips smart bulbs for all applications (overhead lights, spots, standard lamps etc). Brilliant. Sorted out the Mrs Pcolbeck likes "mood lighting" and I like it bright when trying to do something issues. "Alexa kitchen 100%"  instant bright light. You can group them so we have "room" that does the whole room and then subsets like "island" or "table" that give more specific control. "Room off" on a night is great as Mrs Pcolbeck insists on many lights and going round turning them all off manually was a PITA (must be twenty).
Had it running like this for two years and no bulb failures as yet.
We use the ones that let you set a colour temperature as well as Mrs Pcolbeck hated the bright white ones I got as a trial. Bit more expensive but let you have more control. Haven't tried the ones that let you do actual colours just the white temperature is adjustable on ours.
We have the Philips bridge to control them (via Alexa) I think the newer Alexa's have a bridge built in but you would need to check if any built in bridge gave you as much control as the Philips bridge does.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2021, 12:44:54 pm
Does anybody use smart light bulbs?

I'd like to, if I knew of some that  a) use an open control protocol that doesn't rely on access to the internet  and  b) don't PWM at visible frequencies.

Obviously manufacturers are fairly cagey about (a), as their marketing is all about the convenience of their proprietary apps.  I bought an open source ESP8266-based smart lamp from an Italian company as an experiment, but it never worked properly.

With the exception of Sansi, I've yet to find a lamp manufacturer who discusses (b) at all - it's like the entire industry is stuck in advanced stages of "well, it looks alright to me" denial, and to hell with anyone on the autism spectrum, with a visual impairment, prone to eyestrain, taking photographs or using rotating machinery.

I gave up and built my own LED fixtures.  They're varying degrees of bodgy-looking, have a brick of a PSU/control unit (you can't just stick them in a ceiling rose), expensive, the right kind of smart, repairable, and flicker-free.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Auntie Helen on 06 January, 2021, 01:04:34 pm
We have a couple of lightbulbs and they work very well, except we had a phase when 'Bedroom light' kept disconnecting from the network. You would be lying in bed and say "Alexa, switch off Bedroom Light" and she replies "Bedroom Light does not answer." Then you have to get up and actually flick a lightswitch, and then you forget and the next morning when Bedroom Light won't turn on by voice you think it's just being awkward, forgetting you have switched the whole thing off.

Since we changed router Bedroom Light has worked the whole time, so maybe it was a router problem.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Polar Bear on 06 January, 2021, 01:48:25 pm
Are there smart switches?  Possibly better option than bulbs.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2021, 01:54:44 pm
Are there smart switches?  Possibly better option than bulbs.

There are, and they do seem like a better option from a usability perspective, but I think most of them require a neutral wire, and traditional BRITISH wiring doesn't have a neutral at the switch.  Probably need a relatively deep backbox, too.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Diver300 on 06 January, 2021, 03:00:57 pm

With the exception of Sansi, I've yet to find a lamp manufacturer who discusses (b) at all - it's like the entire industry is stuck in advanced stages of "well, it looks alright to me" denial, and to hell with anyone on the autism spectrum, with a visual impairment, prone to eyestrain, taking photographs or using rotating machinery.

I gave up and built my own LED fixtures.  They're varying degrees of bodgy-looking, have a brick of a PSU/control unit (you can't just stick them in a ceiling rose), expensive, the right kind of smart, repairable, and flicker-free.
I agree with b). VW's tail light (100 Hz, 10% duty cycle) are some of the worst.

I've modified a few lamps with extra smoothing capacitors, with variable success. Some have reduced flicker rather than eliminated, and some now are visibly slow to turn on and to turn off, where I've over-specified the capacitor size.

Many non-Sansi lightbulbs have nothing in the globe bit at all, and the globe bit can be removed without damaging the rest. In many types the + and - that need a capacitor added are then visible.

A large black capacitor in the centre of the globe is surprisingly difficult to see when the globe has been glued back on.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 06 January, 2021, 03:03:12 pm
I am looking at buying a couple of tp link kasa 105 smart sockets to test with Google home and  if successful I can see a place for similar trv units.

Does anybody use smart light bulbs?

We have 3 Hive lighbulbs, all fitted in standard or table lamps.  Every other light in the house is an LED - was halogen but I've swapped them all to reduce consumption and heat generation.  Recessed lights in the kitchen and utility, one bedroom and the hall - all the other lights are wall units with LED bulbs.

The smart bulbs give out a pleasant light and the control/timing is a great feature - we have another standard lamp working from a Hive smart plug/socket as well as 2 other plug/sockets - one that turns off power to all the IT stuff (3 computers, a powered hub, 2 printers plus 2 external drives and a lamp - it cuts the power at 2300 and starts again at 0630) - the other one has our coffee machine running off it - it's a single-group Costa-type machine so is keeping water hot all the time  .... that goes off at about 2030 and comes on at 0530 - when we were both working it switched off during the day too (what is clever is that if we are away and switch it off we can fire it up when we're an hour from home ready to make coffee or tea  :thumbsup:)
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Asterix, the former Gaul. on 20 January, 2021, 09:03:21 am
Are there smart switches?  Possibly better option than bulbs.

There are, and they do seem like a better option from a usability perspective, but I think most of them require a neutral wire, and traditional BRITISH wiring doesn't have a neutral at the switch.  Probably need a relatively deep backbox, too.

It's irritating, I very nearly bought a smart switch thinking having just had our lighting circuits rewired(they'd no earth) we'd be bang up to date. But not so. The electricians never thought to add a neutral. I understand newbuilds very often do have neutrals now and our French wiring did too.

I have read that smart switches not requiring a neutral are under development but don't know how they might work.

Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: marcusjb on 20 January, 2021, 09:27:47 am
There are in-wall dimmers out there that can work without neutrals - but they are all quite expensive and their minimum load requirement is fairly poor (like 40-50W compared to some options that are now down to 1W with a neutral).

There are different ways to skin the cat in the absence of neutrals - wago the cabling at the switch point, install an inline dimmer in the ceiling and then use a battery powered switch (with battery life being up to 10 years).

Lutron's RA2 Select range work in this way and is a good retrofit solution - not ever so cheap though (and we don't have their budget Caseta range here in the UK sadly).  Rako is a UK-based company with a similar approach.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: grams on 20 January, 2021, 09:55:25 am
I have read that smart switches not requiring a neutral are under development but don't know how they might work.

I have a no neutral light switch (there are quite a few on eBay). You have to install a capacitor in parallel with the light bulb, which lets a small amount of current flow to power the switch. Works fine.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 20 January, 2021, 10:00:33 am
We've had Hive on our heating for a while together with some plug/sockets and light bulbs - all works pretty well . . . I'm just waiting for delivery on a Hive thermostatic radiator valve to try - reviews are mixed but that seems to be the TRV side that's the problem rather than the simple "on/off" which is what I want them for - to isolate specific rooms at scheduled times (e.g bedrooms during the day)   We'll see if they're any good.

I did try an Eqiva valve that doesn't require a hub as it's Bluetooth - after 4 hours of trying to set it up. it doesn't so it's winging it's way back to Mr Bezos.

We'll see on the Hive - not cheap but it's part of the overall single system.

Update on the Hive TRV - installation was pretty simple and our desired use as simply an on/off mechanism for the radiator in one room works fine - at the moment it's set at the same temperature as the rest of the house and comes on from 1415 and goes off at 1545 ... to coincide with my wife using the room from 1500-1600 (yoga!)

The one annoyance, which nowhere does it tell you, is that the TRV control ONLY works on the Hive phone/tablet app and not the PC/browser which is my preferred method.

Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 20 January, 2021, 12:34:42 pm
I've just bought one of those TP Kasa plugs to use with my office heater that I keep forgetting to turn off. Am hoping it works fine without a hub.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: ian on 20 January, 2021, 12:39:42 pm
I have the TP-Link Tapo plugs (not really sure how they differ from the Kasa other than cheaper and smaller), they work fine on the existing wifi (one of my specifications was Not Another Hub). Every now and then, one will drop off Alexa (though they're still connected through the app) but that's a minor occasional issue, presumably on the Amazon side.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Davef on 20 January, 2021, 01:00:29 pm
The hive ones are very reliable, the cheaper ones less so. I have a mixture. For short term things like “Christmas tree off” I can live with a bit of unreliability
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 20 January, 2021, 05:42:36 pm
I almost bought the Tapo plug but the amp loading is lower than the Kasa and as it's for a heater I thought I'd best go with the Kasa.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: quixoticgeek on 20 January, 2021, 07:09:05 pm
Does anybody use smart light bulbs?

I'd like to, if I knew of some that  a) use an open control protocol that doesn't rely on access to the internet  and  b) don't PWM at visible frequencies.

Obviously manufacturers are fairly cagey about (a), as their marketing is all about the convenience of their proprietary apps.  I bought an open source ESP8266-based smart lamp from an Italian company as an experiment, but it never worked properly.

I have got IKEA Tradfri stuff throughout my flat, apart from one lamp at my desk which is an OSRAM bulb, which has better control of the colour temp (useful for soldering).

The IKEA lamps I can control via either:

- My phone
- shouting at my housemate until he does it with his phone
- Wireless switch unit things
- some Go-lang code on the command line of a raspberry pi, via ssh.

The OSRAM bulb is not paired to the IKEA gateway, and instead talks to the raspberry pi using some sort of usb stick thing. I then use Zigbee2MQTT, which I can then control either through the command line, or via node-red. This allows me control of both colour temp, brightness, and on/off.

It by no means is an open protocol, but it does seem to work well for what I want. One of my friends has flashed micropython into the ikea bulbs, which allows him to control them via nodered and zigbee2mqtt.

Quote

With the exception of Sansi, I've yet to find a lamp manufacturer who discusses (b) at all - it's like the entire industry is stuck in advanced stages of "well, it looks alright to me" denial, and to hell with anyone on the autism spectrum, with a visual impairment, prone to eyestrain, taking photographs or using rotating machinery.

I gave up and built my own LED fixtures.  They're varying degrees of bodgy-looking, have a brick of a PSU/control unit (you can't just stick them in a ceiling rose), expensive, the right kind of smart, repairable, and flicker-free.

I am working on my own LED light, I have some day light high CRI led strip, and some other gubbins. I am debating if I want to use a zigbee controller, or just a pot... I turned on the strip to test it, and made the mistake of looking at it. If I use all of it the way I am intending, I may have to be careful or I'll have aircraft trying to land on my flat...

J
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: ian on 20 January, 2021, 09:45:02 pm
I almost bought the Tapo plug but the amp loading is lower than the Kasa and as it's for a heater I thought I'd best go with the Kasa.

That might be the difference, mine just power lamps. Call me Ambient. Captain Ambient.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Valiant on 20 January, 2021, 10:55:56 pm
I have some smart switches that don't require neutrals in my house. They were cheapish too at around £15 when I got them and don't require a deep back box. All were Tuya Smartlife and had no problems with connecting to my Echo. I think they were the Yagusmart brand IIRC. Had them for the best part of a year with no issues other than having to create a separate 2.4ghz network as the combined name and bands confuses them, along with a lot of other smart home bits.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=smart+switch+no+neutral
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 04 May, 2021, 04:19:10 pm
Resurrecting this thread because I have recently discovered Tasmota (https://tasmota.github.io/docs/).  Open source firmware for myriad internet-of-shit devices that can make them a lot less shitty (speaking MQTT/HTTP locally, without any of that cloud nonsense).

I commend to the panel the excellent Shelly relays (https://shelly.cloud/), but they're only really useful inside appliances or if you can do house-owner things like fit deeper back-boxes or do a bit of re-wiring in the ceiling space.  They seem to be a rare example of a smart thing company that gives a shit about interoperability, so you don't even really need Tasmota.

I've taken a punt on some E27 adaptors, which are on the slow boat from China.

Meanwhile a Blitzwolf SHP11 (https://www.blitzwolf.com/16A-3520W-Smart-Socket-UK-p-511.html) arrived this morning.  Armed with a spudger, a soldering iron that goes up to 11, a TTL/serial converter and an appropriate degree of carefulling, I was able to re-flash it with Tasmota and hot-glue it back together in an electrically safe manner.

It's just an on/off relay (no power monitoring), but it's 16A rated in a UK form-factor, and not to be sneezed at for 9 quid.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: aidan.f on 06 May, 2021, 09:31:37 pm
Having tried and failed to Tamotize a Sonoff switch, I am interested that you, Kim, succeeded. What brand of TTL/serial converter did you use please? Perhaps I should try a Blitzwolf first as a known good to flash device.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 06 May, 2021, 09:51:57 pm
Ah, I recently bought a nice one that lets you switch between 3.3 and 5V with a jumper for this sort of thing...

*digs through email*

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253513002243

Worked with the Shelly 1 and the SHP-11 using Tasmotizer (https://github.com/tasmota/tasmotizer), wiring as per the destructions here (https://templates.blakadder.com/blitzwolf_SHP11.html).  In spite of the diagram being labelled 5V, I tried it at 3.3V for magic smoke reasons, and it worked fine at 3.3V.  As usual with ESP things, you have to tie GPIO0 to ground at power-on to enter programming mode.  Easier to leave that connected during programming, then disconnect it and power-cycle to see if it boots up properly.  Obviously the relay won't clunk without mains power.

Getting into the SHP-11 is a case of spudgering the obvious seam: The plastic face from which the mains plug pins emerge is flat and a couple of mm thick, with the main body glued around its edge, so you need to spudge inwards parallel to the pins to break the glue, rather than too much levering outwards (there aren't any tabs to release, once the glue breaks the case just lifts off).  Once you're in, contacts attached to the live and neutral pins are soldered to the board.  I set the iron to 450C and added a bit of leaded solder and they came out without too much drama, though sticky-up components mean there isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre the iron.

Having paid slightly more attention to the BlitzWolf website, it suggests that the SHP-11 has power monitoring that isn't enabled by that Tasmota template.  After fiddling with the SHP-10 template and only getting nonsense readings I decided that I'd wait until the second one I ordered arrives and pay a bit more attention to the circuitry once I crack it open.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: aidan.f on 06 May, 2021, 10:35:36 pm
Kim I read that as you ended up using 5V logic levels? I have  been using a  TTL 3V3. Will order your recommendation. Good vfm@£2.84 with useful tx and rx LEDs.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 06 May, 2021, 10:48:11 pm
No, I used 3.3V, that wasn't very clear.

Yeah, I've got a couple of the 5V-only converters with no blinkenlights kicking about, and being able to see that something's happening is a welcome improvement.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 07 May, 2021, 06:25:55 pm
Second SHP-11 arrived.  There's a BL0937 in it, but apparently not in the same pin configuration as the SHP-10.  I've managed to stumble on the correct configuration for the CF and CF1 pins to get sensible voltage and power readings, but I haven't worked out where SEL is supposed to go yet, so current and reactive power remain elusive.  Will do some reverse-engineering to work out which pin is which on the frustratingly unidentified ESP module later...

ETA: Cracked it.

I've created a pull request on github to update the wiki (https://templates.blakadder.com/blitzwolf_SHP11.html) with my findings, but in the mean time, here's the template:
(click to show/hide)

*Really* not to be sneezed at for 9 quid.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 10 May, 2021, 09:34:13 pm
Further adventures in tasmotizing:

Blitzwolf LT-30 E27 socket adaptor (https://templates.blakadder.com/blitzwolf_BW-LT30.html)

It's just a relay for switching lights on and off.  Regular readers will know that I installed a several of very bright Sansi E27 lamps (https://uk.sansiled.com/) on account of being one of the few brands of LED lamp that are properly engineered not to flicker, so it being E27 was only a minor inconvenience.

The main objective here was hands-free operation of the kitchen light, in order that  a) barakta doesn't have to turn the light off with her nose on the way upstairs due to lack of hands  and  b) I stop getting chain oil on the switch.  Bonus points for automating the other lights between the sink and the bike chains...

This one's dead easy.  Proper screws, no spudging, nice clearly marked 0.1" programming header on the board.  All you need are some dupont cables and a blob of blu-tac.  Upload the firmware, and job's a good'un.   :thumbsup:

Training ourselves out of turning the kitchen light off at the switch is a work in progress.  This is why I'd have preferred to use a Shelly.  All you old people with your own houses don't realise how lucky you are.


D06 contact sensor (https://templates.blakadder.com/D06.html)

From the department of so cheap it would be rude not to.  This one's a bit (okay, a lot) more involved.  Getting into the case is a matter of a quick flick with the spudger, to lull you into a false sense of security.

The battery-powered architecture is such that a ubiquitous 8-pin microcontroller powers up the ESP briefly in order to communicate when the contact state changes.  So the first thing you have to do is remove a 0 ohm 0406 resistor and (depending on PCB revision) sever the track below it with a scalpel, in order to break the serial line between the two micros.  Then you can tack some wires onto the pins of the ESP, and flash the (special, low power) firmware.  I then strongly recommend disconnecting GPIO0 and performing the rest of the configuration with external power still present, as it's much easier when it doesn't keep going to sleep.  Note that you won't get any response from the 8-pin micro until that link resistor is replaced (possibly with a Mk 1 solder blob).

Doing something useful with Tasmota's rules left as an exercise for the reader.  The dummy relay approach to storing contact state across power cycles seems to work well, though.

This is probably a good time to remind people that polypropylene-friendly hot glue is vastly preferable to self-untapping screws for attaching things to PVC window frames: Quick, strong and easily removed with a squirt of IPA.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Tim Hall on 10 May, 2021, 11:29:30 pm
Resurrecting this thread because I have recently discovered Tasmota (https://tasmota.github.io/docs/).  Open source firmware for myriad internet-of-shit devices that can make them a lot less shitty (speaking MQTT/HTTP locally, without any of that cloud nonsense).
Does the Bold bit mean Jeff Bezos/Sundar Pichai don't get to know when you're turning your kitchen light on? It's all within the Kim & barakta Towers Netjbex?
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 10 May, 2021, 11:41:59 pm
Resurrecting this thread because I have recently discovered Tasmota (https://tasmota.github.io/docs/).  Open source firmware for myriad internet-of-shit devices that can make them a lot less shitty (speaking MQTT/HTTP locally, without any of that cloud nonsense).
Does the Bold bit mean Jeff Bezos/Sundar Pichai don't get to know when you're turning your kitchen light on? It's all within the Kim & barakta Towers Netjbex?

Exactly.  Needless to say I've got all this stuff quarantined on its own VLAN with no access to the outside internet.

To do clever thigns with Tasmota you need a MQTT broker (a simple piece of software that stores and forwards messages between clients).  Sort of thing that's easily run on a Linux server, Raspberry Pi or virtual machine.  And probably some sort of high-level decision-making/user interface stuff.  Don't ask me about that bit, I've just grafted them into my own proprietary system, but I see talk about NodeRed in Tasmota circles.

But, TBH, Tasmota has a lot of useful functionality on its own: Clever timers, event-based rules, sensor thresholds, that sort of thing.  So if you want, say, a light that comes on for 5 minutes when you press the switch and then switches itself off, but only after sunset, you can do that without connecting it to anything[1].  And the HTTP interface is phone-friendly (accessing and resolving it left as an exercise for the reader).  Not that these smart things won't have similar functionality on their stock firmware, but it probably relies on some cloud service at some point.


[1] Well, a time server's probably helpful...
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 15 May, 2021, 12:30:17 am
Today's adventure in wanky automation was configuring CUPS to tell the smart plug feeding the laserjet to switch on when a job is added to the print queueue.

This is obviously a vast improvement on the previous system of messaging barakta on IRC to tell her to frob the switch...
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 29 September, 2021, 09:18:16 pm
I've discovered another exciting use for smart plugs:

I fitted one to the microwave so that, like the kettle, the alerting system could provide a visual cue that it had finished (so barakta doesn't unknowingly leave it beeping).  It occurred to me that I could program it to power-cycle at exactly 13:01[1] every day, thereby bodge-synchronising its spectacularly inaccurate clock.   :thumbsup:


[1] For reasons that don't really make sense, the clock is 12-hour and starts from 1:01 at power on.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: pcolbeck on 30 September, 2021, 01:19:59 pm
Today's adventure in wanky automation was configuring CUPS to tell the smart plug feeding the laserjet to switch on when a job is added to the print queueue.

This is obviously a vast improvement on the previous system of messaging barakta on IRC to tell her to frob the switch...

Ooh I like that one. How much delay did you have to build in before the print job gets sent to allow the printer to boot and dhcp etc? Or does CUPs just keep retrying until the printer comes online?
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 30 September, 2021, 02:05:58 pm
Today's adventure in wanky automation was configuring CUPS to tell the smart plug feeding the laserjet to switch on when a job is added to the print queueue.

This is obviously a vast improvement on the previous system of messaging barakta on IRC to tell her to frob the switch...

Ooh I like that one. How much delay did you have to build in before the print job gets sent to allow the printer to boot and dhcp etc? Or does CUPs just keep retrying until the printer comes online?

No delay, I think it just retries for a bit.

tea4CUPS and curl are the special sauce.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: SoreTween on 21 December, 2021, 09:15:02 am
Warning, very long and picture heavy nerd posts follow.

Soretween's first adventures with Tasmota:

After Kim posted about Tasmotizing a Blitzwolf SHP-11 I ordered a pair.  They sat on the pile of things to be fiddled with until last week as I wanted to monitor the power on our freezer as a) I was sure it was using a lot of power and b) it was about to be replaced.  Following Kim's guide it was dead easy.  I only managed to get the old freezer on it for one full 24 hour period during which time it used 0.743 kWh, the replacement is twice the size and used 0.433kWh it it's first full day of run time.  Neat.

But back up a moment.  It wasn't only the freezer situation that made me extract digit regarding the Blitzwolf, It was also because when I got home from work at the end of November Mrs Tween asked me to help setting up some smart sockets. She wants to be able to control multiple lights together instead of turning each on/off individually.  These are the beasties she'd bought:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4292-crop.jpg)
Those are Meross MSS210 smart sockets. And here's one with a Blitzwolf:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4293-crop.jpg)
Hmmm, cheap chinese copies?  Nah, couldn't be.  2 minutes looking at the crapola software on Mrs Tweens phone and 5 minutes trying to find online if they work direct (phone to gadget) or through somebody else's computer (I needed to know as they'd be on different VPNs depending) and I'd had enough, they'd be jailbroken or binned.

So that was the point at which I Tasmotaized a Blitzwolf to learn the process.  Next I spudgered my way into one Meross.  Exactly as expected I found what I initially thought was the same PCB with the power monitoring devices unpopulated (Blitzwolf on the right):
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/20211214_123530-crop.jpg)
But flipping the PCB over It becomes obvious the ESP8266 riser is not exactly the same:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/20211214_123702-crop.jpg)
Actually, it's not an ESP8266 at all in the Meross:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/20211214_124152-crop.jpg)

Ah well - RTL8710 must be effectively the same thing mustn't it?  So supported by Tasmota - yes?  No.
Quote
Tuya Convert

Tuya devices are sold under numerous brand names but they're all identifiable by the fact that they connect with these phone apps: "Smart Life" or "Tuya Smart". They incorporate different types of Tuya Wi-Fi modules internally.
Tuya has begun manufacturing some Wi-Fi modules using a Realtek RTL8710BN Wi-Fi SOC instead of an ESP82xx chip.
Tasmota cannot run on Realtek devices and there are no plans on supporting them.
The RTL devices are cheaper and being Arm based lower power apparantly.

Bum. So I'm snookered?  Nah :-)
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: SoreTween on 21 December, 2021, 09:35:34 am
I happened to have some WeMos  D1 mini in stock:
(https://iotmaker.vn/images/detailed/1/D1-mini-pinout-Page-1.png)
That's an ESP 8266 module (the dark PCB) on a carrier board that provides a USB socket for programming (just visible at the bottom).  Far too big to fit in as is but if I can get the ESP off the carrier... Tasmota went straight on it with a default template and I checked it was visible on the network when powered from 5v from a bench psu.  Then began the difficult job of desoldering the ESP from the carrier.  And that did not go at all to plan.
First attempt I used too much force & ripped a load of pads off both the esp board and the ex-carrier (heat from a paint stripper gun).  I was too worried about overheating it.  2nd attempt went better, all the esp board pads were fine and I only damaged 3 pads off the carrier (no matter).  So I carefully connected it to my bench PSU to see if it had survived.  I don't actually know if it did because it sure as hell didn't survive me switching on the PSU still set to 5V the carrier needs instead of 3.3v the ESP needs. Bum.

New plan needed:  The back of the dead ESP boards were marked with ESP-12-F.  Since I need 4 and I'm down to 2 WeMos left I may as well cut out the hassle,  South American River Co provided 5 ESP-12F for £13.99 next day.  This is the pinout of the ESP-12F from the manual:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/ESP-12F.jpg)
The pinout is not exactly the same as the WeMos carrier above.  GPIO15 (yellow wire) isn't a straight connection and EN on the ESP-12F isn't brought out to a pin on the carrier at all.  Since that pad was one of the 3 I'd ripped off the 2nd desoldering attempt I had to trace it back (Blue wire). 
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4283-crop.jpg)
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4285-crop.jpg)
At which point things got really frustrating, it just wouldn't work.  I checked and re-checked the documentation and my soldering and still Tasmotizer just wouldn't connect to program the little sod.  It turned out to be a combination of 2 problems.  Lead free solder (the work of Stan) on the carrier board giving me dry joints, in particular the blue wire to the resistor.  How can a mechanically sound joint made entirely of solder not conduct?  Grr.  2nd, it took a few resets to get Tasmotizer to connect.  With a D1 mini you just plug it in to USB & they wake in programming mode every time.  With the wires between the carrier & ESP12F it took a good few resets with Tasmotizer attempting connection to get it to work.
Once programmed I powered the carrier from the bench psu to confirm it was working & desoldered it from the spiders web.  Then I could start figuring out how to connect it to the Meross.  These are the connections viewed on the underside of the Meross PCB:
Code: [Select]
     Relay |
            |
HWLBL SELi |
            |
           |
            | LED
  Button 1 |
            | BL0937 CF
       GND |
            | HLWBL CFi
       VCC |
So the 12F needs connecting like this.  Connections in brackets are shown for completeness, I don't need them as this PCB doesn't have the power monitoring:
Code: [Select]
    GPIO15 |
            |
  (GPIO03) |
            |
           |
            | GPIO00
    GPIO13 |
            | (GPIO05)
       GND |
            | (GPIO14)
       VCC |
There's no connection for RST and EN.  Those are handled on the riser board, see the 3 little resistors down the bottom (Blitzwolf socket so this is an ESP riser)
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/20211214_124210-crop.jpg)

So a certain amount of creative bodgery will be required:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4287-crop.jpg)
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4286-crop.jpg)

And fitted:
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4288-crop.jpg)
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4289-crop.jpg)
(http://soretween.altervista.org/Tasmota/DSC_4290-crop.jpg)

And so remembering to adjust and then double check the voltage I ran it off the bench PSU and lo, it was visible on the network.  I blatted Kim's Blitzwolf Template onto it and soldered it back into the socket.  And blow me it works :-)
It is of course spouting garbage related to the power monitoring over mqtt but I'll get to that.  First I need to just rinse and repeat 3 more times.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: SoreTween on 21 December, 2021, 10:06:36 am
Yeah, 'just' repeat 3 more times ::-)  That spiders web fought me every step of the way.  RST was a dry joint when I soldered the 2nd into the programming web, those wires are tinned with lead free.  The 3rd crapped out mid programming (blue light on) and never worked again.  The 4th was just dodgy, there was a bad connection there somewhere but I couldn't find it.  The 5th would not program at all.  Eventually I figured out the resistor I was soldering the blue wire to had cracked (failed open circuit) & replaced it with an external one.  After a good few frustrating hours over a few days I had 3 more ESP-12F programmed with the default template ready to fit.
If ever I need to do some more I will 3D print a pogo pin adapter (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3995162):

I also Tasmotized the 2nd Blitzwolf and (stupidly, without testing it) refitted it to the socket.  Nuffink.  So I had to remove it again and reconnect to Tasmotizer.  Where it works fine.  Try as I might I cannot get it to work in run mode (powering the Blitzwolf PCB).  More frustration.

Fitting the 3 ESPs to the three remaining Meross was straight forward.  Then I just needed a template:
Code: [Select]
{"NAME":"Mehross MSS210","GPIO":[320,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,32,0,224,0,0],"FLAG":0,"BASE":18}
I still need to fix the 2nd Blitzwolf.  I'll have one more go at fixing the fitted ESP module and if that fails I'll put an ESP-12F into it instead.  I have a feeling though the 3 extra connections and the non-staggered PCB pads will make that difficult.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 21 December, 2021, 12:17:47 pm
Nice bodging.  I replaced the ESP module in an old 'open source' smart bulb (https://templates.blakadder.com/authometion_LYT8266.html) that never worked properly, which made it behave.  I think sometimes you do just get dodgy modules.  I've got a D1 Mini that's weirdly fussy about what WiFi networks it will connect to, using firmware that works fine on other modules.


New favourite smart plug: https://templates.blakadder.com/athom_PG04-UK16A.html

ETA: Unsuitable for heavy loads.  See below.

Functionally equivalent to the Blitzwolf, but pre-flashed with Tasmota, so no mucking about to get access to the serial pins, calibrating the power monitoring, etc.  Button on the top rather than the side, which is more convenient in most socket scenarios.  Only the single (blue) blinkenlight though.  Overall slightly smaller.

(I was shocked to discover a proper Bussmann BS1363 fuse inside.)

Other Athom products with Tasmota pre-flashed are available.  I've got a couple of their smart bulbs.  The warm-white's a bit meh, but (after installing a custom Tasmota build that allows PWM at 20kHz for barakta-compliance) it's fine for the stairs.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: SoreTween on 21 December, 2021, 01:53:59 pm
Thanks.  Calibration is still to be done, those power readings above should be treated as comparative rather than reliable.

Tasmota Device Groups are really jolly neat, getting the 4 Meross to turn on and off together was ridiculously simple.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 03 March, 2022, 03:42:57 pm
New favourite smart plug: https://templates.blakadder.com/athom_PG04-UK16A.html

Functionally equivalent to the Blitzwolf, but pre-flashed with Tasmota, so no mucking about to get access to the serial pins, calibrating the power monitoring, etc.  Button on the top rather than the side, which is more convenient in most socket scenarios.  Only the single (blue) blinkenlight though.  Overall slightly smaller.

(I was shocked to discover a proper Bussmann BS1363 fuse inside.)

Health warning: Whoever designed this overlooked that fuses get hot in use.  I've just discovered that the fuse cover of one that was controlling a fan heater (usually running at 1.5kW) has melted and disintegrated when poked.  On dismantling the unit, there is further melting of the plastic surrounding the fuse internally.

The rest of it seems decently engineered, so I'd suggest that these should be fitted with a 3A fuse and only used for light loads.


The Blitzwolf SHP-11 on the kettle seems okay.  (No fuse, so doesn't get as hot).  But those are now unobtanium.

I've just taken a punt on https://www.mylocalbytes.com/products/smart-plug-pm-uk as a potential replacement.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 24 March, 2022, 08:37:25 pm
I've just taken a punt on https://www.mylocalbytes.com/products/smart-plug-pm-uk as a potential replacement.

Update: After powering a couple of fan heaters with them for a couple of weeks, these show no signs of melting.  I cracked one open (glue warning) and didn't see any obvious electrical horrors.  From the markings on the board, this appears to be a re-badged Sowye TP24 version C.

Only real complaint is the button on the side rather than the top, and that the blinkenlight is a bit bright.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: FifeingEejit on 24 March, 2022, 08:56:45 pm
AS a slight Atethesis to the Smart part of this...

I'm looking for a radio controlled switch option, no timer, no app, no wank basically.
A mate had quite a nice looking one years ago but the closest I can find is this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DEWENWILS-Switch-Control-Wireless-Programmable/dp/B07YKFD952/ref=sxin_14_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa

But as soon as you buy a multi-pack you lose the nice switch like remote control and get a remote control that looks like it should be opening a garage door
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DEWENWILS-Control-Wireless-Programmable-Sockets/dp/B07NJ2XHZC/ref=sxin_14_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa


Really just want it to be able to turn the AV kit in the living room (3 sockets) and computer shit off at the wall without contorting myself in order to reach down, under and round what they live on
any thoughts?
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Pickled Onion on 24 March, 2022, 09:24:02 pm
A short switched extension lead, either on top of the thing they live on, or next to it so that switch can be operated with a foot?

They also come with anti-surge which can be useful for protecting AV stuff (if recent/delicate) and computery stuff against, err, surges.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: tom_e on 24 March, 2022, 09:25:10 pm
We're using these more for the vaguely normal-looking light switches and wireless switching:  https://www.quinetic.co.uk/ (https://www.quinetic.co.uk/)

You can get straightforward switch-only receivers, or ones with the switch wireless receiver and WiFi gubbins also.  The latter allows you to both set times for on/off and just use the switch regardless of timer state.  I haven't got round to trying to bodge proper smart connectivity to them because I didn't need it.

There is a socket adapter rather than light receiver, though I've not used it.  Grid switch units can be fitted inside the matching grid housing to make a wall mounted multi-switch that looks similar to a normal light switch.  We have several of the square flat switches just sat on bedside tables - they look like a normal light switch that hasn't been mounted or wired up, but they work the main room light.

If I understand your use correctly then you can also "train" multiple outputs to run off one switch (or vice-versa)?  Though you could achieve that with a 4-way extension lead into one rc socket?
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 24 March, 2022, 09:40:27 pm
A short switched extension lead, either on top of the thing they live on, or next to it so that switch can be operated with a foot?

Would be my approach, unless you actually care about smart features.  You know where you are with a physical switch.


Nice switch inputs for smart things seem to be surprisingly hard to achieve, not helped by the BRITISH approach of not having live available at the switch position, and even then that's a screwdriver job.  While being able to control your lights or whatever from a smartphone is occasionally useful (especially when mobility-impaired or otherwise In Bed), you'd have to be a real fanboy to want to use that as the only method.  I suppose if you enjoy talking to Alexa, that's a bit more reasonable.

Most of our lighting is now to some extent smart, and most of the control is through a combination of rules based on motion sensors and time of day.  My aim is that you shouldn't need to reach for a switch/phone/computer, because the lighting should already be doing the right thing, unless you want to manually turn it up to bastard bright before hoovering or similar.

This is, I think, an unfashionably 70s approach to automation.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 24 March, 2022, 09:44:34 pm
If I understand your use correctly then you can also "train" multiple outputs to run off one switch (or vice-versa)?  Though you could achieve that with a 4-way extension lead into one rc socket?

Oh, one potential gotcha with those basic RF remote sockets (not the WiFi kind) - the RF receivers generate interference locally, so they tend not to work properly if you position them too close to each other.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: FifeingEejit on 25 March, 2022, 01:32:38 pm
The hidden nature of the actual switch is a win in my book.
The TV has 2x4 Gang extension leads plugged into a 2 gang socket, the sound system has 1.

Going round turning 3 sockets off with a switch sticking out into the floor, nah.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: andyoxon on 29 March, 2022, 09:15:38 am
I almost bought the Tapo plug but the amp loading is lower than the Kasa and as it's for a heater I thought I'd best go with the Kasa.

Just picked up first smart plug, a tapo (tp-link) P110 "Mini Smart Wi-Fi Socket Energy monitoring".  £13.50.  Max load 2990W, 13A.  Easy to set up, & currently it's monitoring fridge socket.  Seems to give a current consumption, 24hrs, month; with histogram displaying 24hr or monthly tots over time.  Not tried the voice Alexa/Google functions.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 29 March, 2022, 11:56:51 am
Those appear to be based on the RTL8720CF (https://community.home-assistant.io/t/tp-link-tapo-p100/147792/23) so you're probably stuck with the manufacturer's firmware.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: andyoxon on 29 March, 2022, 12:38:32 pm
Ok, thanks.  Why might that be an issue, if wanted better functionality?  Only really bought that one to try, & because it had energy monitoring, with good reviews, but also had heard of TP-Link (used to have a router).  Plug also has CE mark FWIW.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 29 March, 2022, 12:49:05 pm
The main reasons to avoid proprietary internet-of-things things are:

a) They'll only inter-operate with what the manufacturer cares about them inter-operating with, unless you happen to be lucky.  (Case in point, that thread of people trying to get them to work with Home Assistant[1].)
b) If they depend on some internet service run by the manufacturer (common), they'll lose functionality when that service disappears.


[1] A popular open source smart-thing control system that works without an internet connection.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: andyoxon on 29 March, 2022, 01:01:31 pm
Best 'recognised brand' option for home assistant?  Apparently the tp-link Kasa plugs (look identical) used to support Home Assistant, but now don't because api removed?  https://alerts.home-assistant.io/#tplink.markdown
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 29 March, 2022, 01:17:26 pm
Best 'recognised brand' option for home assistant?

Shelly are usually a good start, but they don't do a BS1363 smart plug.

(I don't know much about Home Assistant, other than it likes to speak to devices over MQTT.)


Quote
Apparently the tp-link Kasa plugs (look identical) used to support Home Assistant, but now don't, because api removed?  https://alerts.home-assistant.io/#tplink.markdown

That's exactly the sort of internet-of-shit problem you want to avoid.  One day everything works fine, then a manufacturer deprecates an API it just stops working.   >:(

The only ways to really hedge against this sort of thing is either to be fanatical about open source (where with a bit of work you should be able to keep obsolete stuff alive indefinitely), or to buy into the biggest-name brand and hope they're not going to be too evil.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: ian on 29 March, 2022, 08:15:41 pm
TP-Link has been around for a while and the plugs we have cost about £8 each, so even if they stop supporting them, it's a minimum cost and set up involved plugging them in and tapping a few buttons in Alexa so I can shout 'let there be light' and thusly there is. In my view, life is too short to be flashing firmware.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: andyoxon on 30 March, 2022, 04:14:20 pm
One thing that's a bit carp about the tapo P110 energy monitoring, is that there appears to be no simple set counters to zero option.  One has to factory reset the plug.   ::-)  Once I worked how to reconnect the unit again by pressing "+" to add a new device, rather than attempting to use the previous 'ghost' plug app icon... not too bad.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: FifeingEejit on 05 April, 2022, 03:58:13 pm
Turns out the remote control thingy I liked the look of was from CostCo.
They no longer do them and all options require needless appery.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: SoreTween on 22 April, 2022, 09:04:18 am
no timer, no app, no wank basically.
Can you cope with a bit of that as part of the setup process? The 4 sockets I modified above are set up as a group, push the on/off button on any one and the other 3 follow suit. No software/app involved at all in use and groups are just a basic tasmota (the software they run) function. The tasmota ready sockets Kim found will be able to do it.

If a tasmota ready physical switch with the right aesthetic can be found it should do what you seek. Setup is via a web page, no app required at any stage. Could you cope with the room light switch not matching the rest in the house? If so there's this:
https://templates.blakadder.com/athom_SW112EU.html

Mrs Weevil wants something better than reaching down to one socket to control hers.  A remote would get lost and I couldn't cope with a mismatched wall switch. So I'm investigating a shelly buried behind the room light switch changing the single switch plate for a double.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: DaveReading on 14 October, 2022, 05:52:22 pm
I've just invested in a boxful of smart switches from LocalBytes.  For the time being I'm mainly interested in the power monitoring capability, so I'm using mostly the dashboard screen until I write an application that can poll the device at interval from an HTTP client, passing commands in the URL.

Setup was a dawdle, or so I thought.  That was until I started playing with my hub to reassign my 4 plugs with sequential IP addresses (so I can remember them).  Three of the 4 worked fine, but then I stupidly told the fourth one to connect to the SSID for the hotspot on my BT hub, rather than the regular SSID.

Now the plug seems to be in no-mans-land - I don't have a clue what IP address it's now using, so I can't get at it with a browser.  I naively thought that holding down the button until it flashes would reset the device so that I get at the configuration page again, but that proved not to be the case.

The button does, however, toggle the power output on and off, so I'll be using it as a dumb plug instead unless I can figure it out.   >:(
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 14 October, 2022, 06:03:10 pm
We've had Hive on our heating for a while together with some plug/sockets and light bulbs - all works pretty well . . . I'm just waiting for delivery on a Hive thermostatic radiator valve to try - reviews are mixed but that seems to be the TRV side that's the problem rather than the simple "on/off" which is what I want them for - to isolate specific rooms at scheduled times (e.g bedrooms during the day)   We'll see if they're any good.

I did try an Eqiva valve that doesn't require a hub as it's Bluetooth - after 4 hours of trying to set it up. it doesn't so it's winging it's way back to Mr Bezos.

We'll see on the Hive - not cheap but it's part of the overall single system.

Update on the Hive TRV - installation was pretty simple and our desired use as simply an on/off mechanism for the radiator in one room works fine - at the moment it's set at the same temperature as the rest of the house and comes on from 1415 and goes off at 1545 ... to coincide with my wife using the room from 1500-1600 (yoga!)

The one annoyance, which nowhere does it tell you, is that the TRV control ONLY works on the Hive phone/tablet app and not the PC/browser which is my preferred method.

A further update after the purchase of another couple of Hive TRVs - we now have "timed zone control" in one bedroom and sitting room (2 rads) that is only used from about 1900-2200 each evening - all works a treat and fuel consumption seems to be down/under control.   Together with a few Hive plug/sockets I'm hoping to keep costs under control.

I did give in and fire up the heating today - I was hoping for another week at least!
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: Kim on 14 October, 2022, 06:12:39 pm
Setup was a dawdle, or so I thought.  That was until I started playing with my hub to reassign my 4 plugs with sequential IP addresses (so I can remember them).  Three of the 4 worked fine, but then I stupidly told the fourth one to connect to the SSID for the hotspot on my BT hub, rather than the regular SSID.

Now the plug seems to be in no-mans-land - I don't have a clue what IP address it's now using, so I can't get at it with a browser.  I naively thought that holding down the button until it flashes would reset the device so that I get at the configuration page again, but that proved not to be the case.

The button does, however, toggle the power output on and off, so I'll be using it as a dumb plug instead unless I can figure it out.   >:(

Tasmota recovery: https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Device-Recovery/#recovery-techniques

Does the BT hub not give you some sort of logs for WiFi associations and/or DHCP leases which might give a clue?

If it's on the same subnet as a computer, you should be able to discover its IP address with "arp -a"

Worst case, you can spudger the cover open and re-flash the firmware by soldering wires to the AJW-02_8285 ESP module, then glue the cover back in place.

(https://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/alerter/2022_03_08_17_27_47.sized.jpg)
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 14 October, 2022, 07:10:27 pm
Sort of related to this thread - I'm looking for suggestions/recommendations for a basic plug-in energy monitor for about £20/25 . . . 

What I want to do is just plug in various appliances for, say, 7 days and see how much juice they have consumed in Kwh (I'm not interested in entering the Kwh price - I did arithmetic at primary school so can work out the costs myself) - most of the units I've seen seem to focus on the unit costs rather than the usage in Kwh.

Any suggestions please?

Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: DaveReading on 14 October, 2022, 09:08:04 pm
Tasmota recovery: https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Device-Recovery/#recovery-techniques

Cycle the power 7 times in a row - how come I never thought of that !!   ;)

Joking aside, it did indeed do the trick, noted for future reference.

Many thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: AllyCat on 15 October, 2022, 11:11:41 am
Hi,
Sort of related to this thread - I'm looking for suggestions/recommendations for a basic plug-in energy monitor for about £20/25 . . . 

Most (but not all) of the "Smart Switches" as in this thread can do Energy Monitoring and much more "advice" could be given if you want to follow that path.  However, you would probably prefer an integrated display type, such as have been sold by Lidl/Aldi and Maplin (I have both). IMHO the former are typically German, too many functions on a few buttons, with a tiny display, and of course Maplin shops are long gone.  So a quick google has produced two other suggestions:

The Energenie ENER007 (https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2720873.pdf) looks interesting (< £20), available from Screwfix/Toolstation/CPC, etc. and even Maplin (except they're out of stock, as are Localbytes for the Tasmota Plug in the thread above).  Another possibility (with a backlight) is Here (https://www.onbuy.com/gb/power-meter-plug-energy-monitor-with-backlight-lcd-display-electricity~c13234~p29991744/) but note that only the https://www.onbuy.com/gb/shop/low-energy-supermarket-ltd/ seller appears to be shipping directly from the UK.

Cheers,  Alan.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 15 October, 2022, 01:41:11 pm
Hi,
Sort of related to this thread - I'm looking for suggestions/recommendations for a basic plug-in energy monitor for about £20/25 . . . 

Most (but not all) of the "Smart Switches" as in this thread can do Energy Monitoring and much more "advice" could be given if you want to follow that path.  However, you would probably prefer an integrated display type, such as have been sold by Lidl/Aldi and Maplin (I have both). IMHO the former are typically German, too many functions on a few buttons, with a tiny display, and of course Maplin shops are long gone.  So a quick google has produced two other suggestions:

The Energenie ENER007 (https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2720873.pdf) looks interesting (< £20), available from Screwfix/Toolstation/CPC, etc. and even Maplin (except they're out of stock, as are Localbytes for the Tasmota Plug in the thread above).  Another possibility (with a backlight) is Here (https://www.onbuy.com/gb/power-meter-plug-energy-monitor-with-backlight-lcd-display-electricity~c13234~p29991744/) but note that only the https://www.onbuy.com/gb/shop/low-energy-supermarket-ltd/ seller appears to be shipping directly from the UK.

Cheers,  Alan.

You're right - I want a standalone unit to use as a "tool" from time to time.  I had looked at the Energenie but the chap at Screwfix said that lots that they sell are returned as being useless - and reviews in various places are a bit mixed.

The Energenie also seems to be available with lots of rebadged versions (or vice versa) - the second item you linked is remarkably similar?   

Given the ease of returns at Screwfix/Toolstation (both within about 3/4 mile of home) I might give the Energenie a go anyway.

. . .  I think OnBuy.com is the same sort of outfit in China as Aliexpress and Banggood (delivery time for the item was about 3 weeks which suggests that's the case) - that said I've bought stuff from both of them with no issues.

Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: AllyCat on 15 October, 2022, 03:30:49 pm
Hi,

Personally, I prefer ebay to aliexpress, etc. (or even to some Amazon "Marketplace" sellers), because they seem more "up front" about typical/latest delivery times and the VAT surcharge, etc..  There are some Chinese sellers who do keep UK stock, or bulk ship (aeroplane) within a week (sometimes marked "posted from UK"), and the "SpeedPAK" service is impressive (usually tracked) at a modest price.  So I always look carefully at the predicted delivery window. 

The two Energy Monitors that I linked do seem to be quite different, just as the various (apparently identical) "cylindrical" smart switches of this thread can have quite different features and software, sadly almost impossible to identify from their listing/descriptions :( (except for the Tasmotas).   Of the DIY shops, I usually start at the Screwfix webpage because they have Q&A and Customer Review pages (but object that it defaults to all the 5* reviews first, not in sequence of posting).  Their reviews seem mainly positive but I see that they have no stock of the Energenie in any of my local branches (but Toolstation have ;) ).  There are contradictions whether it has/needs a battery, because another of my objections to the Lidl device is that it has a coin cell battery which its manual suggests may expire quite quickly unless it is left plugged in.

Cheers,  Alan.
Title: Re: Smart Plugs
Post by: robgul on 15 October, 2022, 03:36:10 pm
Hi,

Personally, I prefer ebay to aliexpress, etc. (or even some Amazon "Marketplace" sellers), because they seem more "up front" about typical/latest delivery times and the VAT surcharge, etc..  There are some Chinese sellers who do keep UK stock, or bulk ship (aeroplane) within a week (sometimes marked "posted from UK"), and the "Speedpack" service is impressive (usually tracked) at a moderate price.  So I always look carefully at the predicted delivery window. 

The two Energy Monitors that I linked do seem to be quite different, just as the various (apparently identical) "cylindrical" smart switches of this thread can have quite different features and software, sadly almost impossible to identify from their listing/descriptions :( (except for the Tasmotas).   Of the DIY shops, I usually start at the Screwfix webpage because they have Q&A and Customer Review pages (but object that it defaults to all the 5* reviews first, not in sequence of posting).  Their reviews seem mainly positive but I see that they have no stock of the Energenie in any of my local branches (but Toolstation have ;) ).  There are contradictions whether it has/needs a battery, because another of my objections to the Lidl device is that it has a coin cell battery which its manual suggests may expire quite quickly unless it is left plugged in.

Cheers,  Alan.

Thanks - the local TS has stock of the Energenie so I'll probably pick one up (and unpack it carefully just in case!) and give it a go.