Author Topic: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer  (Read 1114 times)

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #25 on: 14 October, 2021, 05:54:10 pm »
He struck me as the type of person who would probably have difficulty living in conventional society due to social/mental/psychological reasons but whereas many like that would drop out or more likely fall out into drugs, crime, violence, and many ways of harming themselves and others either deliberately or accidentally,

I can’t see anything that shows he has social, mental or psychological issues that would make it difficult for him to live in conventional society.
The fact that he has chosen to opt out of it suggests he was dissatisfied with it.
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #26 on: 14 October, 2021, 06:26:05 pm »
But was that motivated by anarchist opposition to the existence of the state, or possibly just to the current UK state, or simply a desire to spend less money?

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quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #27 on: 14 October, 2021, 07:12:30 pm »

Watching the Guerilla grazing video, made me think of this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zO3xUg157c

When I watched this video it just made me angry. Sure he's got 47 items. Because at that point someone who has more than 47 has let him live in their glamping shelter thingy for free. He's got no bank account, and I'm guessing no health insurance. So wtf will happen when he gets ill/injured?

Something Helen Czerski said comes to mind at this point

"Each of us has three life support systems: We have a body, a planet, and a civilization. Our civilization is keeping us alive now in just the same way that the other two do. We are absolutely dependent on it. "

And given we are dependant upon it. We really should do our part to keep it functioning.

J
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #28 on: 14 October, 2021, 07:26:03 pm »
He explicitly says he is dependent on other people. He also says that this is an experiment for him. Maybe it won't last very long.

Obviously he's a Gandhian or thinks he is, which in turn reminds me of a line from a Stanley Brinks song: I thought that I was a Bohemian already and had nothing to learn from anybody.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Wowbagger

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #29 on: 14 October, 2021, 08:32:28 pm »
Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.
'the good life' got that bit right. They struggled for money, and Tom had to periodically drop back into 'normal 9-5' to get by.

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types). I've had a few NaTs as friends or acquaintances, and only one of them recognised the value of taxation as a contribution to society. The rest were a resentful bunch who did everything they could to avoid contributing to society at large, often decrying the benefits of anarchy (some, ironically, claiming benefits).

We get a veg box from a family over the hill. Mum, daughter and son. He worked as a landscape gardener until he had enough money to buy a croft. Mum bought the house. They get by eating what they grow and selling veg to the community. Basically traditional small scale farming. They work damn hard.

A bit like Amazon, Apple, Starbucks, Vodaphone...
Bach without a doubt.

Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 04:47:21 am »
What is the difference between working all the hours God sends to provide for ourselves on a smallholding and earning a wage doing something totally unrelated?
Isn't the difference about six to eight hours leisure time a day for five days a week and a couple of days free of paid work and a pension to support you in your declining years?
Never knowingly under caffeinated

Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 07:47:31 am »

Something Helen Czerski said comes to mind at this point
"Each of us has three life support systems: We have a body, a planet, and a civilization. Our civilization is keeping us alive now in just the same way that the other two do. We are absolutely dependent on it. "

And given we are dependant upon it. We really should do our part to keep it functioning.

J
... very true and how do the Roma/Traveller/Gypsy community do that?
Never knowingly under caffeinated

Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 08:33:54 am »
Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.
'the good life' got that bit right. They struggled for money, and Tom had to periodically drop back into 'normal 9-5' to get by.

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types). I've had a few NaTs as friends or acquaintances, and only one of them recognised the value of taxation as a contribution to society. The rest were a resentful bunch who did everything they could to avoid contributing to society at large, often decrying the benefits of anarchy (some, ironically, claiming benefits).

We get a veg box from a family over the hill. Mum, daughter and son. He worked as a landscape gardener until he had enough money to buy a croft. Mum bought the house. They get by eating what they grow and selling veg to the community. Basically traditional small scale farming. They work damn hard.

A bit like Amazon, Apple, Starbucks, Vodaphone...
You missed off google and all the fossil fuel companies.

Yes, absolutely.

I also agree with Quixoticgeek. The 'minimalist' people are very convenient about what they count (he seems to ignore the chair he is sat on, the table, glass, bed, building).
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Regulator

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 08:48:26 am »

Something Helen Czerski said comes to mind at this point
"Each of us has three life support systems: We have a body, a planet, and a civilization. Our civilization is keeping us alive now in just the same way that the other two do. We are absolutely dependent on it. "

And given we are dependant upon it. We really should do our part to keep it functioning.

J
... very true and how do the Roma/Traveller/Gypsy community do that?


Ah - I knew we'd see the old prejudices rear their head on this thread...
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quixoticgeek

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 09:47:23 am »
... very true and how do the Roma/Traveller/Gypsy community do that?

The same way the rest of us do. They pay taxes, and they vote. And if asked, they do Jury Duty.

J
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barakta

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 12:59:27 pm »
I am much less bothered by the Aarons of this world "not paying taxes" and living a life outside the traditional economy than I am about mega-corporations which don't pay anywhere near enough tax if any at all, who also rely on infrastructure and in some cases promise to pay for infra to allow projects, then don't pay and the local authority can't afford to sue them, then the council has to build AND maintain infrastructure that is solely for the benefit of BigCO e.g. roads that just go to their megastore or drive-thru...

Aaron may not pay taxes, but it sounds like he does good in his communities as a whole. He clears up areas of public land which might otherwise be neglected (perhaps cos the authority that owns it can't afford or can't be arsed to maintain it). The chances are Aaron contributes to public infra in a more direct way by looking after it...

The idea that everyone should EARN to contribute is very capitalist. We forget the people who may not have traditional jobs and lives, but often do a great deal for the community. I am thinking of a family friend who hasn't worked since the 70s before she had children, and when she became widowed in the mid 80s it wasn't financially sensible for her to work (she'd have lost a range of husband's pensions). She hasn't earned and paid tax bar VAT and car taxes, but she quietly does lots of good things for other people. She often helps elders in her faith community, drives them to hospital appointments, helps keep the local nature reserve tidy and so on... IF she was working she wouldn't be able to do the community stuff she does. She's also very astute, and it was thanks to her my mum got more clue on racism as this friend introduced my mum to Reni Eddo-Lodge's race book by going to a talk by Reni about the book and stuff...

Not everything has a financial price tag on it and that is OK.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 01:17:29 pm »
People in Gypsy or other traditional Traveller communities probably interact with Settled communities in different ways from Aarons and Rob Greenfields, in that they (Gypsies etc) have their own cultures/communities, rather than being off-shoots from mainstream ones.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 01:25:31 pm »

Watching the Guerilla grazing video, made me think of this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zO3xUg157c

When I watched this video it just made me angry. Sure he's got 47 items. Because at that point someone who has more than 47 has let him live in their glamping shelter thingy for free. He's got no bank account, and I'm guessing no health insurance. So wtf will happen when he gets ill/injured?

Something Helen Czerski said comes to mind at this point

"Each of us has three life support systems: We have a body, a planet, and a civilization. Our civilization is keeping us alive now in just the same way that the other two do. We are absolutely dependent on it. "

And given we are dependant upon it. We really should do our part to keep it functioning.

J
He probably addresses that in this one of his several other videos: https://youtu.be/OvL-Z0gl6ig
...but I couldn't be bothered to watch it, as I'm afraid I find his video manner slightly irritating.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 03:48:03 pm »
... very true and how do the Roma/Traveller/Gypsy community do that?

The same way the rest of us do. They pay taxes, and they vote. And if asked, they do Jury Duty.

J
Well I never knew that.
Never knowingly under caffeinated

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 09:57:37 pm »
Well I never knew that.

If you're a resident in the UK, you have to pay taxes if you earn enough to do so. As well as the taxes and duties involved in purchasing stuff (fuel, vat, etc...).

If you are a citizen of the UK you can vote.

If you are a citizen of the UK you can be required to do Jury duty.

It doesn't matter if you live in a mansion, or a caravan. You are still a resident and/or citizen.

J
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ian

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Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 09:58:49 pm »
To be fair though, they have to find you first.
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 10:03:53 pm »
You have to be on the electoral register to be eligible for jury service, which you probably won't be if you don't have a static address. But that's just one part of "keeping society functioning" and a part that many equivalent societies function well without.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 10:10:11 pm »
He struck me as the type of person who would probably have difficulty living in conventional society due to social/mental/psychological reasons but whereas many like that would drop out or more likely fall out into drugs, crime, violence, and many ways of harming themselves and others either deliberately or accidentally,

I can’t see anything that shows he has social, mental or psychological issues that would make it difficult for him to live in conventional society.
The fact that he has chosen to opt out of it suggests he was dissatisfied with it.

Yes, but choosing to opt out of it doesn’t mean he has social, mental or psychological issues. He just wants to live in a different way.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #43 on: Today at 12:00:41 pm »
Yeah. I think "wanting to live in a different way" counts as a "social reason", which was the phrase I used, not issue.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer
« Reply #44 on: Today at 01:17:29 pm »
Back to guerilla grazing - back in the late 1970s when I moved to where I am now, there was a woman who had a very small farm, but increased her grazing by putting her small herd on the roadsides around the area. She was at one end, her dog at the other. Traditionally it was called the “ long acre”, and was common in Jersey I believe.
The woman was always cheery, would pass the time of day and was well thought of locally. I don’t believe she had any electricity in her basic farmhouse, and she milked by hand. I think she reared calves on the milk - I don’t think that she would have got a license to sell milk.
I doubt she would have thought of herself as “ alternative “, certainly not guerilla. She just did what her parents had done and ignored most of the “ modern” world.