Author Topic: Promoting AUDAX events  (Read 41482 times)

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #50 on: 23 December, 2008, 11:37:39 pm »
Audax is essentially about 200k and above. Shorter events are fun, but only really there to encourage folk to take the next step...oh and, yes, they do subsidise the organisation to some extent, but only the peripherals such as magazines and  stuff. Few sportives extend to 200k, and they attract a considerable number of wannabe racers who haven't quite got the gumption (nor the skills) to tackle a real race. Audax is not particularly glamorous, but has  a bit more substance.

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #51 on: 23 December, 2008, 11:45:56 pm »

StanThomas

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #52 on: 24 December, 2008, 12:14:39 am »
Audax is essentially about 200k and above. Shorter events are fun, but only really there to encourage folk to take the next step...
... Few sportives extend to 200k, and they attract a considerable number of wannabe racers who haven't quite got the gumption (nor the skills) to tackle a real race.

Perhaps this is one reason for the negative attitude to Audax from the wider cycling world. And, something the organiser of an event will have to work against to expand the number of potential entrants. There's been a suggestion to promote audaxes as challenges; disparaging 100 milers as a bit of fun for beginners hardly fits with that model.
Personally, I get bored after 8 to 10 hours, so 200km is quite long enough, thank you. Short attention span I suppose. And I ride 100 mile audaxes & sportives 'cos that's where I find my enjoyment. Presumably the same applies to the hundreds who turn out for the Polka Dot challenge. I know that IanH's remarks are stated AUK policy but it's not conducive to encouraging larger entries.

John M

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #53 on: 24 December, 2008, 12:40:58 pm »
Happy Crimble to all you YACF addicts.

This topic that I posted was on how to promote AUDAX rides.
Thank you for all your time in posting comments. I have found them interesting and enjoyable.

I would prefer if I did not get less than 50 riders on the 3 AUDAX rides I organise.

The thread seems to have stated talking about sportives.
Maybe people think that sportive rides get more entrants and by copying the way they promote their events AUDAX rides could get more entrants?
Please say how you think sportive rides promote their events.


Similarly to one of the previous messages I too like to ride 100km AUDAX rides. (I have actually admitted to this fact…hope this does not offend by this admit ion).
I find them fun wee blasts and fit in with my other family commitments better than longer events. I have only ridden AUDAX rides longer than 200km twice. But I still very much enjoy rides of 200km and 100km. Hence, I want to put something back by organising rides


I have done 4 or so different Sportive rides.
I have really enjoyed them. (I hope that does not upset anybody by admitting to this fact..)
I try and ride then as fast as I can.
For some reason people seem to be very negative about sportive events.
I believe they are a success and will continue to grow in popularity. Look at the numbers they attract if nothing else. They seem to attract 100’s of cyclist.
I have found their organisation very efficient. I have also found them very sociable and fun.
On the ones I have done I have found the participants to be as varied as on AUDAX rides. Ie old young, fit and not so fit, carbon and mountain bikes..the full spectrum of the variety of cyclist…

To me sportives appear to be extremely similar to the way I ride AUDAX events but generally I don’t stop on a sportive and there is no need check directions from a route sheet.
I think AUDAX may have missed an opportunity to the way it promotes its events but I am not sure quite how and uncertain as to why sportives have become so successful.

So why do sportive events, if they are not too dissimilar to Audax rides, attract so many more cyclists?

Have and enjoyable and exciting New Year

May you have many puncture free miles in 2009.

John M


Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #54 on: 24 December, 2008, 01:12:57 pm »
I don't think anyone here will disagree with your comments about 100k audaxes or sportives.  I enjoy them both too (though I have not done many sportives)

I think that the reason sportives are visibly more successful (measured by number of entrants) lies as much in the name as anything else - "sportive" is evocative.  It implies something that is totally lacking in the Audax name, or indeed rules.  As has been said, the people who enter are very similar, and few people complete sportives at speeds in excess of the audax max.  But they appeal more to the club rider.

The efficiency of the organisation you refer to is another reason they could be more attractive than audax.  The fallback of the mechanic's van (or broomwagon) and the signposting are valuable to many riders, particularly those doing the distance for the first time.  In comparison all audax events are very basic.  To me that is part of the attraction.  I can easily see why it could be otherwise.

As a matter of interest, do your 3 events happen on the same day?  So are those 50 entrants you need between them, or do you need that number for each event?

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #55 on: 24 December, 2008, 01:51:01 pm »
I've ridden quite a lot of audaxes (?) over the years, although not too many in recent years due to a number of health related boring issues, and never ridden a sportif. Most of my audax rides have been <200k, with quite a few perms in there.
Right - that's my credentials.

As far as I see it 'audax is to touring' as 'sportive is to racing', with the relative collapse in the cycling club culture over the last 30 years these types of rides, and their loose national organisations seems to have taken the place of much of the culture of the local clubroom / weekly-ride-to-a-tea-shoppe-in-all-weathers.
Both styles seem appeal to the type of rider (and maybe I'm one) who craves that sense of belonging to something, but doesn't want the commitment of turning out every Sunday morning to support the other three sad gits who turn out to support the other three sad gits on the regular ride-to-a-tea-shoppe-in-all-weathers.
One sort might have supported the baggy shorts, cape and stinky saddlebag club-run - they now go on audaxes; the other sort would have supported the shiny locknuts, latest designer shades and ooo-look-at-my-frame chaingang - they now ride the sportives.
That's not to say that Mrs Baggy Shorts never raced, and you never saw Mr Shiny Locknuts  on a touring ride - but I think you follow my drift.

I have never been tempted by sportives because: My shorts are baggy, my lockrings are grubby, I'm a cheapskate and - most importantly - if, while I'm riding an Audax event, I want to sit on that bench over there and take in the view, knowing I only have to make up my time, I bloomin' well can, and no finishing list is going to point it's printed finger at me saying "look! he could only hack it in (n+2) hours". Or, if I get bored, knack'd or whatever, I can ring up the missus  and say "I've bottled it - collect me"(and tell the organiser).
I don't *feel* the sportive gives me those degrees of freedom.

Audax grew out of a long tradition (albeit continental inspired) of Long Distance riding and fitted neatly into the world of the British Hard-Riding Clubman, at a time when that clubman was becoming a much rarer beast - perhpas due to the nature of the clubs, the state of British cycling, and the state of British roads. It has grown like topsy and at times the club has struggled to cope with its growth pangs, but I sense a very healthy organisation - yes amateur, but vibrant and responsive.
Sportives seem to have grown out of a more 'fashion'/ lifestyle centred style of cycling culture that has developed in recent years (and no, that's not intended as a put-down) where a marketing opportunity has been seen and grabbed to target those who have been drawn into our world by the allure of the Race, but repelled by the sacred mysteries of the Racing Club. I sense that sportives may not flourish as the the economic downturn nibbles at the ankles of the Rapha generation. The challenge for Audax-UK will be to pick upt he peices / for the Cyclosportives will be to adapt downwards.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

John M

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #56 on: 24 December, 2008, 05:00:40 pm »

Hi,

Thanks for your recent posts.

Having ridden AUDAX’s and sportif’s I personally find that the same type of cyclist is riding both….and a very mixed lot they are…. from touring riders to club men and women.. there appears to me no difference in the type of riders they attract, only that sportif’s seem to attract larger fields.

If we generally assume that AUDAX UK want to attract more riders and not have it as a preserve to just a few persons how do members of YACF believe sportif’s are managing to achieve this? (I look forward to responses on this)

My personal view is “image”. AUDAX has a poor image in many areas. Eg in media / press, at local cycle club level, and the way events are encouraged to be organised etc.
If this is the case (poor image) then I think that AUDAX UK could perhaps try to put their minds together to see how a change of image could be addressed. However, I would welcome ideas on this message board as to how they might do this.
It could be that AUDAX UK does not want to change its image to attract more riders which I personally think would be a sad attitude, but once again I would welcome your opinions as to who AUDAX UK should encourage to ride AUDAX events. (ie should AUDAX UK not try to encompass a larger number of cyclist to participate in its events on not)

Wowa..never written so much..
Must get the mince pies out of the oven
Happy Christmas
John M

gordon taylor

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #57 on: 24 December, 2008, 05:46:11 pm »
As a "casual" Audax rider (at the touring end of the spectrum) I dread turning up at a start to see a big field of riders.

Why? Because Audax controls are usually commercial cafes which struggle to provide a quick service and stamp to a large number of riders who all arrive within an hour of each other.

I understand the need for organisers to have a field that is big enough to be viable - but if you do attract a big field, it is important that the controls can cope... 

I love Audax just as it is - cheap, cheerful, simple, varied.

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #58 on: 24 December, 2008, 05:48:28 pm »
IMHO it would be a big loss for the Scottish cycling community if John M were to give up organsing Audax events.

But he asks some good questions about why sportifs seem more popular than audax. 

I rode a couple of sportifs this year, enjoyed them, and trying to work out what was different in a good way from Audax.  Offer the following thoughts ...

I think the sportif community (as represented by cyclosportif.com) is more aggressively inclusive - I get regular emails/newletters both from events and tours companies making me feel important/wanted, or at least part of a community.

Similarly with the calendar - I happen to like the Audax.uk website, but comparing the calendar with the cyclosportif calendar is like night and day - I feel the sportif events are trying to attract me and I welcome that, whereas with the audax events I get the impression "this event is on, turn up if you want" which doens't make me feel wanted. Sportifs also make an effort to attract me with the route - I can see a route map, profile, position of feed stations and usually a narrative telling me what to expect.   

Practical things like rolling  start times and feed stations make life easier - I appreciate the attraction of sitting in cafes but actually I want to ride, break for a couple of minutes then ride some more. If I stop too long I stiffen/get cold and if I want a no-frills event I'll organise a perm for myself and ride it when I want.

I think I'm concluding that it's a marketing issue - sportifs make no bones about wanting to attract large numbers of riders and look to make their offerings attractive, audax couldn't care less whether I turn up or not.

In retrospect I feel lucky that I stumbled into audax when I did -15 years ago as a newbie cyclist picked up a leaflet in a bike shop and turned up.  Nowadays I'm not sure I'd even look at audax - it has no profile, doesn't seem particularly welcoming, seems like a bunch of mates with no interest in newbies.

Does this help?
 





"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

StanThomas

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #59 on: 24 December, 2008, 10:31:04 pm »
Does this help?
 

I think I run an event along the lines you suggest, but perhaps not very convenient for you. However if you could find the time over the next few day, could I prevail upon you to follow my WWW link on the left, look at the Poncysyllte Aqueduct ride then let me, John M and other like-minded organisers know whether this is the kind of event and presentation you look for.

Merry Christmas.

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #60 on: 27 December, 2008, 03:32:20 pm »
Hi Stan (and anyone else interested),

Yep, you've hit the spot  -I find it difficult to be too complimentary with your website -  informative,welcoming,  friendly, covers basic stuff like directions to the start (if I'm travellling to a new event then I always worry about getting to the start on time).

Pretty much a  model for any aspiring organiser I'd've thought - sorry, probably making you blush!

Couple of questions - do you count visitors to your sites(s), any statisitcs on "conversion rate" of visitors to entries, how do folks find you -  do you know how people get  to your site, though audax.uk/CTC/ etc?

This site would make me a lot more likely to ride one of your events (shame they are so far away!) - tho' obviously I might not be typical. What kind of turnout do you get? 

cheers

Richard

PS hope this is helpful?






"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

TrevK

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #61 on: 04 January, 2009, 03:17:09 pm »
Johns original question was how to get more people out on rides. I'm sure there are other threads that argue the finer points and differences of Audax & Sportives.

For what its worth - if there was a sportive & an Audax on the same day in the same area I think I would be attracted to the sportive.  :demon: :demon:

My view is that to increase bums on saddles we need to attract riders from other areas other than Audax circles. That means generating a higher profile within your local area & that means better PUBLICITY.

AUK are absolutley crap at the publicity side. I know of several riders who were not aware of the organisations events.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #62 on: 04 January, 2009, 03:25:05 pm »
For what its worth - if there was a sportive & an Audax on the same day in the same area I think I would be attracted to the sportive.  :demon: :demon:

In which case there is no point in making you aware of the Audax - it would be wasted publicity!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #63 on: 04 January, 2009, 03:58:55 pm »
For what its worth - if there was a sportive & an Audax on the same day in the same area I think I would be attracted to the sportive.  :demon: :demon:
It would be interesting, and I'm sure helpful to this discussion, to know just why you make this comment. 

As you say, there is no shortage of information comparing and contrasting the two formats, and there is clearly much overlap.  What is it about Sportives that you prefer to the audax format?  If it's about support, there's not much we in the audax community can do, as that strikes at the ethos of audax.  If, however, it is about marketing and perception, clearly there is something we can, and indeed must, do.

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #64 on: 04 January, 2009, 04:17:59 pm »
I would imagine that many people are drawn to a sportive event over an audax for exactly the same reasons that I'm drawn to audax and not sportives.  Audax is meant to be personally challenging but not a competition whereas I believe that sportives operate much more like races.  I know that I can drag myself into an arrivee within ten minutes of the time limit and nobody's going to sneer at me, and also that I can leave feeling that I've had a successful day.  For all I know this also applies to sportives but they have a reputation of being much more competitive, and I wouldn't enjoy a ride, done in the same time, if I felt I'd 'failed' by being last in and half an hour behind everyone else.  If on the other hand I was a lean racing snake, I might get frustrated that there was a twenty minute queue in the cafe control which was eating into the fabulous time I was making. 

I'd be very sorry to see audax marketed as a competitive event simply to draw in sportive riders. 

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #65 on: 04 January, 2009, 04:44:45 pm »
I got bored by page three so sorry for any repetition and deviation...

1:  I don't drive so don't bother starting and finishing miles from the nearest railway station.

2:  Don't make that station one which only has a service 3 times a month and never on weekends. 

3:  If you have to have it in an awkward place, make a list of the local b&b's, hostels and campsites with phone numbers please. 

4:  I'm not Teethgrinder:  I haven't ridden more than 105k in a day, ever.

5:  I don't race, in fact I barely crawl along so make the max time nice and generous.   10 kph or less suits me fine.  I'm with Liz: I don't care about being back with seconds to spare.   

6:  Please make the routesheet and the controls of a decent quality.  I happen to be of less-than-perfect sight and reading the date on a brick 20 ft off the ground is actually impossible for me.

7:  Stay off the main A roads

8:  Please have enough tea and cake for me at the finish.

I like social rides.  I find even the minimum speed bit a restriction.  What if I see a great tea shoppe and want an extended break?  What a ride is about for me is enjoyment.   It is for this reason that I tend not to credit card tour any more.   Why should I have to be there before 6p.m.?  In the summer in the north of Scotland there's at least four more hours of daylight to enjoy.   

To me, the concept of audax is all about competing for those who don't really want to admit that they are.  Why all the points and stuff?   Where's the fun?  For me the fun is in just pootling like we do when we get together for forum rides.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #66 on: 04 January, 2009, 04:49:39 pm »
<SNIP>

4:  I'm not Teethgrinder:  I haven't ridden more than 105k in a day, ever.

5:  I don't race, in fact I barley crawl along so make the max time nice and generous.   10 kph or less suits me fine.  I'm with Liz: I don't care about being back with seconds to spare.   

<SNIP>

I like social rides.  I find even the minimum speed bit a restriction.  What if I see a great tea shoppe and want an extended break?  What a ride is about for me is enjoyment.   It is for this reason that I tend not to credit card tour any more.   Why should I have to be there before 6p.m.?  In the summer in the north of Scotland there's at least four more hours of daylight to enjoy.   

To me, the concept of audax is all about competing for those who don't really want to admit that they are.  Why all the points and stuff?   Where's the fun?  For me the fun is in just pootling like we do when we get together for forum rides.

It sounds like your aims and Audax riding are mutually exclusive, so why would an organiser want to encourage/entice you into an event you don't want to ride?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #67 on: 04 January, 2009, 04:52:03 pm »
I got bored by page three

I stopped looking at it years ago.



But seriously, why the list of requirements for an AUK event when you don't like them anyway?

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #68 on: 04 January, 2009, 04:55:48 pm »
It's not a list of requirements.  Its a list of why I don't do them.   I am not unique and I guess some of my dislikes are those of others too.

I like riding my bikes.  I enjoy going out for the day, touring over a number of weeks, etc.  If the OP wants to encourage people like me in, then my needs need to be considered.  If they're not interested, then so be it.

I carefully omitted the cliquey bit, but if you all insist...

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #69 on: 04 January, 2009, 04:58:17 pm »
Let's put it another way:  The Dun Run appeals.   A 120 mile ride to be completed in a fixed maximum time or you don't get your ride recognised just doesn't.   See the difference?

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #70 on: 04 January, 2009, 05:04:29 pm »


I carefully omitted the cliquey bit, but if you all insist...

Is that because we won't let you force you to ride?

Randonnees are just one of many different ways of tempting people out on their bikes. You just need to find something that suits you. Or organise it.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #71 on: 04 January, 2009, 05:07:06 pm »
Let's put it another way:  The Dun Run appeals.   A 1200 mile ride to be completed in a fixed maximum time or you don't get your ride recognised just doesn't.   See the difference?

Why do you need to have a recognised ride?  It sounds like you enjoy touring, so go touring.  There are plenty of those events around, organised or not, even in Oz Welcome to our Great Rides - Bicycle Victoria

As far as I can see, Audax by definition involves a certain amount of riding within some restrictions (time, route or whatever).  If it doesn't have that aspect, it isn't Audax, it's touring.  Given the thread is asking for ideas on promoting Audax events, promoting touring rides isn't going to be much use.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #72 on: 04 January, 2009, 05:11:13 pm »
That's just one of my points:  I don't need a recognised ride.   If anybody wants my money, and attendance at their recognised ride, then they need to know what would entice me to it, don't they?

I organise plenty of social rides thank you.  :) 


LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #73 on: 04 January, 2009, 05:17:20 pm »
That's just one of my points:  I don't need a recognised ride.   If anybody wants my money, and attendance at their recognised ride, then they need to know what would entice me to it, don't they?

It would appear that only a social touring ride could entice you and that an Audax ride would be highly unlikely to meet your requirements, just as a racing club's training ride at evens-plus would never appeal to you.  Such is life!
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Promoting AUDAX events
« Reply #74 on: 04 January, 2009, 05:21:01 pm »
.  If the OP wants to encourage people like me in, then my needs need to be considered.  If they're not interested, then so be it.


He wanted ideas for promoting his Audax events, not how to change them to make them more appealing. As LWAB and others have pointed out, changing things such as min and max speeds makes them not audax events.