Author Topic: New Steel Frame?  (Read 4235 times)

New Steel Frame?
« on: 01 August, 2017, 10:05:37 am »
My Titanium Litespeed frame died as one the dropouts snapped!  I now want to strip the bike of its SRAM Red groupset and rebuild it on a quality steel frame. I love to ride hilly events and intend to ride more UK Audax events. Please advise on suitable steel frame sets.

Thanks

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #1 on: 01 August, 2017, 10:07:58 am »
What type of frame (race-oriented, audaxy, touring, what brazons) do you want?

Genesis do a range but they ain't the lightest

Surly have quite a few

<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #2 on: 01 August, 2017, 10:14:38 am »
Frame will be used as audax bike and hopefully get me through PBP 2019.

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #3 on: 01 August, 2017, 10:17:13 am »
How heavier is a steel frame set compared to carbon and Titanium?

Chris N

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #4 on: 01 August, 2017, 10:24:01 am »
How long is your piece of string (and how deep are your pockets)?

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #5 on: 01 August, 2017, 10:32:36 am »
frame ought to be repairable.  Worth asking yourself if the frame broke for a reason; often such breakages occur for reasons such as

- hub was the wrong width for the frame
- hub axle is bent, breaking, or broken

needless to say if there is a problem with the (I assume rear) wheel, the new frame will break too.

Worth looking at Spa cycles audax frames. Weight different between their steel and ti versions is about the same as a half-full water bottle or something.

cheers

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #6 on: 01 August, 2017, 11:34:39 am »
Apparently it's a common problem for my Litespeed frame. Looking on the positive side this now gives me the opportunity to build a quality audax bike. I saw many at LEL with steel frames and now understand the benefit with a frame with lugs. I honestly don't think the extra weight is a problem. I have a super light Cervelo R5 which is a great club bike but far too stiff events such as LEL or PBP.

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #7 on: 01 August, 2017, 11:43:40 am »
Bob Jackson Olympus Road?

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #8 on: 01 August, 2017, 02:01:10 pm »
Argos will build you a nice 853 frame.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #9 on: 01 August, 2017, 09:27:03 pm »
Spa steel audax is nice.

Not sure the Bob Jackson Olympus road is a softy, but the audax or end to end should be fine.

I'm enjoying the genesis volare 853, but it's stiffer than the Spa Sttely


fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #10 on: 01 August, 2017, 09:49:24 pm »
Shand Stoater looks good.

dim

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #11 on: 01 August, 2017, 10:17:42 pm »
buy a vintage frame such as a Condor or Koga Miyata and build it up accoringly with mudguards, Dynamo lights, bags  etc for Audax .... thats what I'm doing ....

I have a 1980's Koga Miyata Gran Winner and can say that it's the most comfortable bike that I've ever owned (and I have had many) .... perfect Audax bike and i have already started upgrading (changed the cassete to a 9 speed 11-28) .... dynamo lights next then the rest

I paid £150 for my bike
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #12 on: 02 August, 2017, 10:28:18 am »
I'm going through a similar process. You could go for Bob Jackson or a Dave Yates and have it built up to your own specifications. The frame will cost you from £800-£1200 or so . Then put whatever bits you want on. Then it will be your own unique bike.
I've gone for a 80s Moser frame in immaculate condition. Photos to follow.

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #13 on: 02 August, 2017, 12:37:30 pm »
Getting some great advice from this thread. What are the top preused steel frames I could buy. Would I have any problems fitting my SRAM Red to an old frame?

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #14 on: 02 August, 2017, 03:41:46 pm »
Depending on age and specifications, check dropout width and ability to fit in cassettes and chainrings.

There may also be issues with some bottom brackets, chainrings and front derailleurs.
I guess SRAM red is band-one fitting?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #15 on: 02 August, 2017, 06:39:11 pm »
Getting some great advice from this thread. What are the top preused steel frames I could buy. Would I have any problems fitting my SRAM Red to an old frame?

Is the idea to get something unique/vintage or simply to save a few quid?  If the latter, it doesn't always work out, not for a frame that you need to be reliable.  If a used frame needs a respray and a couple of braze-ons, you would need a good reason to buy it over a new Spa or Hewitt etc. because the net cost might end up about the same.

BTW it is worth mentioning what size frame you need, just in case someone has the thing you need lurking in the back of a shed.

cheers

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #16 on: 02 August, 2017, 06:48:39 pm »
Bob Jackson have a mixed reputation for framebuilding, with tales of people receiving custom frames with bizarre geometry, and my own experience is that their framebuilding QC is poor, although their painting is good.  An off-the-peg frame will fit 99.9% of people anyway, and the other 0.1% are probably just being vain.

Among really good secondhand frames, Ron Cooper's frames are good if you can find one (he built over 7,000 so it shouldn't be that hard, although how many non-full-on race frames he did, I don't know).  Also look for George Longstaff and Tony Oliver, who mostly built touring style frames, Dave Yates and Chas Roberts, who built anything.  Going cheaper, you're into medium volume builders like Mercian.  Go much cheaper, and some Orbits can be good, as can Nigel Deans.  The older you go, the more likely you'll need to stretch a rear end from 126mm to 130mm and find a 1" headset size - so you'll either need to live with a quill stem, get a replacement threadless fork, or have a threadless steerer brazed onto an original fork (wouldn't recommend the latter two as 1" Aheadsets are a bit rare, whereas 1" quill stems never went away).

You can go for real vintage 50s stuff with curly lugs but you will definitely have a 1" headset, possibly no braze-ons at all (not even cable stops on a road/path frame, certainly not bottle bosses) and the rear end could be anything from 112mm to 120mm.  To have the necessary braze-ons added, a repaint that does the frame justice, a re-space and a re-track, expect to throw £400 at Argos in Bristol, a bit less for other shops.

Watch out for steep seat angles of 73 or 74 degrees on Taiwanese-built frames like Paul Hewitt's.  These are a bit of a pain if you want to use a Brooks saddle (short rails) and you'll need to hunt around for a seatpost with serious layback.  A 71 degree seat angle is better for a Brooks but I suppose it doesn't look racy enough these days.  On the subject of Hewitt, the touring frames are very nicely specified and finished but are more suitable for unloaded audaxing than for loaded touring.  My Cheviot is impossible to ride out of the saddle with a camping load on the back, a problem its predecessor (a Thorn Nomad) never suffered from.  The lighter version of the Cheviot might be worth looking at.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

CountrySickness

  • mostly puzzled
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #17 on: 02 August, 2017, 06:51:29 pm »
If you're anywhere near the midlands Lee Cooper builds really nice custom steel (much better than my wife's Mercian for example) at great prices, I've had a lugged 853 and a fillet brazed 631 from him.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #18 on: 02 August, 2017, 06:58:01 pm »
Apparently his jeans aren't bad either  ;D
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

CountrySickness

  • mostly puzzled
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #19 on: 02 August, 2017, 07:01:23 pm »
Luckily the frames just say "Cooper" ;D

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #20 on: 02 August, 2017, 07:05:43 pm »
If you're anywhere near the midlands Lee Cooper builds really nice custom steel (much better than my wife's Mercian for example) at great prices, I've had a lugged 853 and a fillet brazed 631 from him.

Is he building again. I heard that he stopped a while ago.

There's also Geoff Geoff and Chris Marshall (Keighley) out there, plus Woodrups in Leeds as well.

CountrySickness

  • mostly puzzled
Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #21 on: 02 August, 2017, 07:09:07 pm »
If you're anywhere near the midlands Lee Cooper builds really nice custom steel (much better than my wife's Mercian for example) at great prices, I've had a lugged 853 and a fillet brazed 631 from him.

Is he building again. I heard that he stopped a while ago.


Stopped restarted, stopped and I think has restarted. Working for Pashley inbetween  restarts IIRC

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #22 on: 02 August, 2017, 07:39:19 pm »
Bit of caution when buying an Audax frame without the opportunity to test ride it - builders ideas of what that is vary from slightly lighter tourer to road bike you can squeeze mudguards on.
I have a SOMA ES which is down at the light tourer end and is very much a different bike to the Rourke it replaced which was very much at the other end, though it might not have been obvious looking at the framesets (Not by me anyway).  It's not that one is better than the other, just different, although it wasn't for me I'd have no hesitation recommending Rourke if you're looking for that sort of bike.

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #23 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:27:46 pm »
There's also the new outfits building high quality steel frames, many with modern touches (oversize headtube, disk brake mounts etc.) They do complete bikes as well as frames, some such as Shand do custom as well as off the peg.

Mason https://masoncycles.cc/
Shand https://www.shandcycles.com/
Fairlight https://fairlightcycles.com

rob

Re: New Steel Frame?
« Reply #24 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:37:46 pm »
Geoff Roberts, son of Chas is building again, based in Sussex.