Ti bike mistake?

[Samuel D]

The Specialized Turbo Cotton hasn’t been £50 for a while. It’s £58 these days. My friend’s Turbo Cotton got badly slashed shortly after he fitted it, requiring a dodgy patch. Makes me a tad nervous about forking out £116 (!) for a pair of tyres.

[Hot Flatus]

Here's a thought...

maybe phone up Spa cycles (they own Sabbath) and discuss it with them. They may be able to offer some suggestions. I have always found them knowledgeable and amenable.

[mrcharly-YHT]

This likely isn't the most sensitive comment but I have the exact opposite. I've just built up my Ti CdF frame into a commuter. My stainless CdF is still a magic carpet comfort ride, but riding the Ti bike is an absolute blast. The more I ride it the more fun it is; I really didn't expect that.

A double-butted frame is always going to feel much, much better than plain gauge, regardless of the material.

Plain-gauge Ti will feel pedestrian. It will be corrosion-resistant, durable, resistant to dings, but a bit 'dead' feeling.

[Si S]

I've got a September, albeit the disc version (same geometry), and it is a bit of a 'lazy' bike, but that kind of suits this lazy rider and it was what I wanted, something that I could ride for hours on end. It did take me a while to set up and I've ended up with much more drop between saddle and bars than historically usual for me in order to put some zip into it.

In the summer I stripped the guards, dynamo (new lightweight front wheel) and rack off it, put some lighter rubber on it and it transformed it, it'll never be a racing machine but it's quick enough and absolutely hilarious fun on light off road stuff.

[BobScarle]

I've got a September, albeit the disc version (same geometry), and it is a bit of a 'lazy' bike,

That's exactly it, the bike is lazy.

Spent sometime working out wheels, tyres, cassettes etc over the weekend, then spoke to my wife about it last night. Her attitude surprised me, but I think deep down I agree. No good throwing money at a bike that you're not happy with, better to buy another. I need to give the changes a chance, I am planning on a DIY 200 next month so will probably swap wheels and see how that goes.

Now, that Condor website...........

[dim]

The Specialized Turbo Cotton hasn’t been £50 for a while. It’s £58 these days. My friend’s Turbo Cotton got badly slashed shortly after he fitted it, requiring a dodgy patch. Makes me a tad nervous about forking out £116 (!) for a pair of tyres.

EEK .... price has gone up (I paid £50 per tyre from Sigma a few months ago)

but saying that, I have just bought IRC Formula Pro RBCC tubeless road tyres and I paid £100 per pair but some people say that they get in excess of 4000 miles on these, so in the long run they work out cheap

My Turbo Cottons have 1004 Km so far ..... zero punctures and still look as good as new.... not sure how long they will last, but if I get 2500 Km from them, I will be happy

[basset]

I had a Van Nik Amazon and never did get on with it was just to flexy for me ,eventually sold it to a club mate who still has it and loves it 🤔 but it was not for me ,mind I have yet to find the perfect bike yet 🙈🔫 and I seem to keep trying .
Another Lad from the club bought a Enigma Ti disc and I told him to test it first to make sure he was happy f , he just bought it without testing and now admits it is Flexy so perhaps it’s just the nature of Ti .

[mattc]

mind I have yet to find the perfect bike yet 🙈🔫 and I seem to keep trying .

I'm sure you'll find a light, stiff, comfy, durable and cheap one eventually     

[sojournermike]

I've a Kinesis GFTi v2 that seems very nice to ride to me. It's not stiff like a race bike, but it's far from flexy and it always feels responsive. It's wearing a rack and guards at the moment, which the edge off it,  it it's still lovely to get out on. I don't think flexy is any more a Ti attribute than it is of steel. Tube size, Guage and frame design and intent are more important in whatever material is used.

[Chamford Sideplate]

That's exactly it, the bike is lazy.

Do you mean it doesn't turn into corners as sharply as you feel it should?

[BobScarle]

That's exactly it, the bike is lazy.

Do you mean it doesn't turn into corners as sharply as you feel it should?

It's very difficult to quantify exactly what I mean. The bike is hard work. Now I don't want it to be the same as my Canyon, it could never be that, but I want it to make me smile when I ride it. I don't want it easy but I want some reward for my efforts. I am working towards another pair of wheels to try. Maybe that is the reason, maybe it's just tyres. I also need to check and compare the riding position with other bikes. I may end up selling it or I may keep it. Time will tell.

[Brucey]

IME only a really nice and flexible frameset feels good to ride when you have gatorskins for tyres; most don't. 

 I recently traded some puncture resistant 25mm tyres for some 28s (that were allegedly less puncture resistant) and they were easier rolling by far. It felt like a different bike.

cheers

[drossall]

I think we all feel like we want to give it a try now...

[ElyDave]

IME only a really nice and flexible frameset feels good to ride when you have gatorskins for tyres; most don't. 

 I recently traded some puncture resistant 25mm tyres for some 28s (that were allegedly less puncture resistant) and they were easier rolling by far. It felt like a different bike.

cheers

Did the same with my Giant on GP 4 Seasons, much nicer ride and no perceived reduction in performance

I took the 25 mm Gators kind off another bike because it was just a harsh ride, rattling my teeth.

[velosam]

I have a TI tourer and it’s really fun to ride but then it’s wearing m+, Dynamo and guards.  However despite this it once it’s rolling (albeit slowly) it just keeps plodding. 

I am sure if I ever strip it and lighten it, it may just come alive.  But for chewing up the commuting miles it’s fine.

[hondated]

I've got a September, albeit the disc version (same geometry), and it is a bit of a 'lazy' bike,

That's exactly it, the bike is lazy.

Spent sometime working out wheels, tyres, cassettes etc over the weekend, then spoke to my wife about it last night. Her attitude surprised me, but I think deep down I agree. No good throwing money at a bike that you're not happy with, better to buy another. I need to give the changes a chance, I am planning on a DIY 200 next month so will probably swap wheels and see how that goes.

Now, that Condor website...........

Bob just browsing on here because as usual Christmas TV is dire and saw your original posting. I hope by now you have resolved the problem in some way and like others have said I too have made the mistake you have.
I had a Roberts Tourer built for me and as much as I want to like it like yours it just seems like too much hard work to ride.
So much so I have tried a 44 and 48 triple but neither make the bike anymore enjoyable. Just recently I have brought a 46 crank set which I have yet to fit. Hopefully this will solve the problem. However I am now going to review what tyres I have fitted given the information on here.
Given I have got a few bikes now in pursuit of the right one I am wondering whether such a thing even exists.

[Samuel D]

No perfect bicycle exists but thankfully none is needed.

As a general rule, I think the least machine that will do the job is likely to be the best. There’s not much point in having an expedition tourer if you only pitch a tent three times a year.

That said, tyres are often the biggest practical difference between two bicycles and they are easily changed, transforming a plodder into a fast machine if not a pure road bike.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

The geometry of the Sabbath September is relatively standard for an Audax style bike. Yes I'd expect your comments that you find the bike comfortable, but I'm not actually surprised about your initial comments of "stodgy" no "smile factor" and no "fun" either; regarding the negatives there is hopefully a very positive 'but' that I'd like to add.

Those type of comments I often hear when some one has a back story of a faster set up bike when they swap to set up offering more comfort. It can often take a few long rides for the bike to make sense; as the mileage increases a less battered rider on a slower bike can actually equate to a faster rider. I had a similar experience on my own Van Nicholas Yukon, their version of the Sabbath September and a valid comparison here. On my first few short rides I confess I was a bit underwhelmed, but it didn't take long to win me over. I realised very quickly that what I was missing was the perception of speed that to an extent the comfort had diminished; but the key word there is 'perception', not 'actual' speed, in reality I wasn't much slower on a short ride and on a long ride that comfort translated to a fresher faster me. I will go as far to day that it won me over so much it's now my favourite bike!

The problem with perception is that it can be difficult to quantify, one rider's deal breaking difference is another's can tell no difference! Hopefully you may have a similar evolution as myself with your new bike, but I would make sure everything is as it should be. Like many things, it will be the sum of it's parts, I wouldn't expect the riding experience of an Audax bike to feel like a focused race bike, or even a sportive/endurance bike, but I wouldn't have expected you'd to say "maybe I shouldn't have sold my steel bike" either. Sabbath are now supplied by Spa Cycles, I know Colin there by reputation, maybe an idea to let him give your bike and your bike fit the once over to make sure all is as it should be; it may only need a few alterations to the latter to get things just how you need them. You maybe surprised just how much a correctly fitted bike improves not only rider comfort and efficiency but how the bike feels-performs as well.

[toontra]

Agree completely with Paul.  I was blown away when I got my Cervelo 2 years ago - my first "fast" bike after having predominantly ridden a VN Yukon for many years.  It literally brought a smile to my face - the acceleration and nimbleness is fantastic.

However, 2 years on, I still love my Yukon for what it is - a great bike for long distances.  It's so comfortable it's like sitting in a favourite armchair.  Anything over 100 miles is when it comes into its own.  After 10 hours in the saddle (particularly on multi-day rides) the 1mph difference in average speed is almost irrelevant but comfort is everything.

If you don't do much endurance stuff then maybe you have no need for the September.  If you do then you need at least 2 bikes   

[hondated]

Whilst I agree with Paul in some respects, particularly as I know he has a great deal of experience when it comes to cycling and bike set up, I do also feel that you can end up with the " wrong " bike for you.
If I had followed his advice on his Blog for instance I would of probably ended up with a VN rather than the Roberts Tourer I had built for me as he is correct in saying that there are very few of us of a size that necessitates having a frame built for us.
It just seemed at the time it would be nice to actually have a bike made for me but to be honest ever since I have had issues with it. That is not necessarily meant as a criticism of Roberts but rather more to the fact that I, to use an analogy ended up with a Porsche Cayenne rather than a 911, when it comes to speed.
Yes its nice to waft along country lanes looking at the views but its another thing to struggle along those same lanes on a bike that just seems like hard work.
Since having it built I have tried a 44t triple chain set and a 48t with a 34 rear sprocket but neither make it feel any better or responsive. So now
noting that he and Colin ( Spa ) both use a 46t chain set I am going to fit one.
Thanks to this thread I am now also going to fit a pair of the recommended tyres and replace the Continental Four Season Tyres I am  currently using.
Even though I have a few more racier bikes it would just be nice to actually get my Roberts to a standard where I can go out on it and not feel I wasted a great big bucket of money.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Whilst I agree.... I do also feel that you can end up with the " wrong " bike for you..

Seconded, so many have done just that.

I think where some get confused is they want to tick the boxes for the type of riding they want to do and focus less on how they actually like to ride personally. For example, as matter of course I will ask a customer what they want to use the bike for, should that be touring often their train of thought is something traditional along the lines of a Dawes Galaxy. At this stage I will dig a bit deeper and ask them to tell me what a typical bike ride is or if they are new to cycling what they hope it to be. This is where I can get more of a feel of how they like to cycle, 'chill out' versus 'work out' for instance.

Often a bike will be a compromise. Thirty years ago the Audax style bike fast lightweight touring bike didn't really exist and like 'hondated' back then I bought a more traditional focused touring bike, which I intended to use for both touring and winter club runs. It was a Pearson- Dave Yates Reynolds 531 custom frame, a lovely frame and bike, that performed just how it was supposed to; but it just wasn't for me! Yes I wanted to go touring, but back then I was still racing and actually still wanted something that felt closer to my racing bikes than that focused tourer did, especially on winter club runs which often included a mad half hour which turned into a full on burn up! For me I had a made a compromise that thirty years ago when I bought it I was not quite ready for

After a wonderful tour of the 'Picos de Europa' (off topic but an area well worth visiting) I sold the bike to someone who actually wanted a focused touring bike, they still have it and still love it. I actually then commissioned a Pearson Dave Yates bike that had a geometry closer to my racing bikes but with mudguard clearance plus front and rear pannier bosses, I confess if I carried heavy weight on the rear only it wasn't that stable; yet I loved it. The compromise of swapping loaded stability for a riding experience closer to my race bikes was the correct one; for me. In conclusion that's the key, it is so important to work out what it is that's actually important for each rider personally, from there you have a much better chance of working out just what is right; for them.

The compromises I made thirty years ago apply to this day, as although I have stopped racing I still covet a set up closer to my old race bikes. So much so I was actually instrumental in the design of the Van Nicholas Yukon, I based it on my Pearson which I amended slightly to offer slightly more stability, I bike I have used since 2007; I also still use the Pearson as my work bike fixie.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I've always thought that, to improve touring bike handling, lowrider front racks should be shaped to get the pannier centre of gravity as close to the steering axis as possible.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

I've always thought that, to improve touring bike handling, lowrider front racks should be shaped to get the pannier centre of gravity as close to the steering axis as possible.

Most low riders are as the name suggest quite low and for that very reason, as you can see below mine are indeed quite 'low'. I often used small front panniers on both front and rear, distributing the weight across the whole bike proved to be ideal, if I loaded the back up with quite a heavy load it was far less stable! So effective was it that I often missed the stability when I took them off when I got home from a tour; my first unloaded ride would result in a chuckle as the bike initially felt so unstable and lively that I felt I may fall off the thing ; that soon evaporated when the bike seemed to surge forward at the slightest effort mind you 

[drossall]

This is really interesting. I am lucky enough to have a selection of bikes, and of course a racing design is faster than a tourer and so on. However, I have always felt that my favourite was whichever I happened to be riding at the time, even if it's my fairly basic folder.

I do recognise when a bike is lighter and faster - I've got at least one that just makes me grin - but I don't think I've ever felt that a bike was giving me a poor ride. Maybe I'm just insensitive to these things