RAC headlights survey

[Kim]

(I've put this here rather than in Vroom because headlight glare affects all road users.)

https://www.rac.co.uk/press-centre#/pressreleases/motorists-claim-to-being-regularly-left-dazzled-by-modern-vehicle-headlights-2458363

None of this is really news, but good to see that it's being debated.

[handcyclist]

Indeed.

It would have been good if they had mentioned the number of badly adjusted lights, and twunts who drive around with their front frigging fog lights on in clear conditions, even in urban settings.

[Kim]

It would have been good if they had mentioned the number of badly adjusted lights

Indeed.  But that's war-on-the-motorist enforcement stuff, rather than moaning about what the manufacturers are doing, and this *is* the RAC.

and twunts who drive around with their front frigging fog lights on in clear conditions, even in urban settings.

I'm never sure whether they're fogs or permanently on 'driving lights'.  But the daylight running lights debate is to some extent separate (it being perfectly possible to design DRLs that don't blind people).

I did like the mention of lights (of whatever type) making it harder to see indicators.  That's something that does happen, and could easily be avoided with a bit of thought to the design.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I thought this was going to be a survey that we could fill in.

I reckon badly adjusted headlights and too bright headlights are a linked phenomenon, in that some people have their dip beam too high in order that their light match up to a) brighter headlights and b) their own main beam.

[Kim]

I reckon badly adjusted headlights and too bright headlights are a linked phenomenon, in that some people have their dip beam too high in order that their light match up to a) brighter headlights and b) their own main beam.

Or they just find the knob on the dashboard, twiddle it to the position where they can see better, then ignore it.

That aside, there are plenty of cars with lights that need some get-out-and-use-a-screwdriver adjustment.  Typically only on one side.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It's not how you adjust it but why. Being easy to adjust makes it more likely you'll ramp up the horizon, being hard to adjust makes it less likely you'll put it back down again.

[Jaded]

A big part of the problem with fog lights is that the pictograms on the seas board is unclear. A log time ago it used to have FOG splashed across a light, now there is just wavy lines. I’m not sure the average person knows what that means.

Seas board = munged dashboard

[Kim]

A big part of the problem with fog lights is that the pictograms on the seas board is unclear. A log time ago it used to have FOG splashed across a light, now there is just wavy lines. I’m not sure the average person knows what that means.

We discussed this in another thread recently, I think.  There's been some impressive international standardisation of vehicle controls, which is generally a Good Idea, but the nature of such is a reliance on hieroglyphics that some people find completely intuitive, and others find baffling (resulting in the usual strategies of rote-learning, pressing random buttons or in extreme cases actually reading the manual).

I'd say that fog lights are on a similar level to the IEC power symbols for 'standby' and 'on/off'.  Most people will recognise it as something lighting related, but might miss the subtleties of the wavy line for fog or the direction to denote front/rear.

[ElyDave]

As one who regularly drives hire cars, the first thing I do is spend 10 mins on the drive sorting out seat/mirrors/radio tuning etc, and try and work out where all the needed buttons are.

[Pickled Onion]

It's not how you adjust it but why. Being easy to adjust makes it more likely you'll ramp up the horizon, being hard to adjust makes it less likely you'll put it back down again.

On small cars you need to adjust them depending on whether you've got some large people in the back/heavy stuff in the boot or not. For a lot of people, they just see it as a way of being able to see further and feel safer drive faster. They don't care about dazzling anyone else, the same with not bothering to dip from main beam for cyclists and pedestrians.

[Kim]

As one who regularly drives hire cars, the first thing I do is spend 10 mins on the drive sorting out seat/mirrors/radio tuning etc, and try and work out where all the needed buttons are.

+1

Always annoying to have to decode the wiper controls or whatever while driving along.

[drossall]

This is going in the right direction, but I still think that lights can cause distraction, even when significantly below dazzling. That's not an argument against lights, but the aim must be to allow another road user to assess the entire road scene, not to take a "Look at me!" approach focused on making sure that one individual vehicle is seen. That overall approach will inevitably, I think, lead to lights being substantially more dim than is needed even to avoid dazzle.

[mattc]

This is going in the right direction, but I still think that lights can cause distraction, even when significantly below dazzling. That's not an argument against lights, but the aim must be to allow another road user to assess the entire road scene, not to take a "Look at me!" approach focused on making sure that one individual vehicle is seen. That overall approach will inevitably, I think, lead to lights being substantially more dim than is needed even to avoid dazzle.

Agreed.

remember the Highway Code used to promote sidelights only in lit 30mph areas. Which is pretty sensible - sidelights are enough to BE SEEN. And full lights don't actually show you any more of the road under streetlights.

[thing1]

New cars have adaptive dimming lights that try and shine the light away from oncoming vehicles. I haven't figured out how well this works with smaller vehicles, bikes, etc. But when this technology is mature it should negate a lot of the increased dazzle from modern HID or led lights.
Our car does however know which side of the road it's being driven on - as the adaptive cruise control refuses to undertake other cars unless you gun the gas pedal at it, and I was impressed to find it correctly figuring what would be undertaking when driving on the continent recently

[benborp]

The biggest problem that I have is definitely with the focus of modern headlights and not other aspects that might lead to their dazzling ability. It's also far more of a problem when I'm being followed. Quite often the interior of my car is bathed in bright light and I regularly have to fold in my driver's mirror and move my head away from the focus of the passenger's mirror. Obviously a fair amount of responsibility lies with the driver behind who is ignorant of the fact that having the car in front fully lit is going to be causing problems, but the fact that the focus is throwning the light upwards means that there isn't going to be a point where the dipped beam falls short of the preceding car's windows. All that is ever going to happen is that the intensity falls off over distance.

It does get quite desperate sometimes when everything other than where I am shortly going to be is lit up like daylight. Introduce oncoming headlights and the contrast between everything that is visible and the actual road ahead is too great. Plus the action that compensates for the problem naturally makes it worse.

I have been closely followed by cars with sophisticated adaptive dimming systems - there can still be a similar problem (although without the mirror dazzle and the shadow of my own head getting in the way) in that the following car casts light to each side lighting the trees and opposing carriageway and leaves me driving in my own 'shadow'.

[sojournermike]

The MOT test requires the low beam cutoff to be angled down by between 0.5 and 2 degrees at the center of the field. A specified slope up to the left is allowed and, effectively, light must not spill into then area above the cutoff. If the lights are legal they shouldn’t flood your car with light except in cases of convex roads. Of course, if the driver selects full beam then that’s a different situation.

The flood of brighter light aroind is also a problem on the bike at times

[Kim]

The MOT test requires the low beam cutoff to be angled down by between 0.5 and 2 degrees at the center of the field. A specified slope up to the left is allowed and, effectively, light must not spill into then area above the cutoff. If the lights are legal they shouldn’t flood your car with light except in cases of convex roads.

Or if the following vehicle is a massive wankpanzer and yours is a normal-sized car.   

[sojournermike]

The MOT test requires the low beam cutoff to be angled down by between 0.5 and 2 degrees at the center of the field. A specified slope up to the left is allowed and, effectively, light must not spill into then area above the cutoff. If the lights are legal they shouldn’t flood your car with light except in cases of convex roads.

Or if the following vehicle is a massive wankpanzer and yours is a normal-sized car.   

Indeed, geometry fails to protect when the following vehicle has lights that need an altimeter