Author Topic: Grammar that makes you cringe  (Read 835176 times)

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4600 on: 10 July, 2017, 09:19:52 am »
"blocks up to 100% of unwanted calls"

on the side of a phone packaging.

Well it can't block more than 100% can it. Whilst absolutely accurate that statement is utterly pointless
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Paul

  • L'enfer, c'est les autos.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4601 on: 10 July, 2017, 11:49:17 am »
In theory.  But are all employees female?
Why do you ask?

I think that the "ee" suffix denotes relationship, not sex/gender.
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4602 on: 10 July, 2017, 01:22:12 pm »
In theory.  But are all employees female?
Why do you ask?

I think that the "ee" suffix denotes relationship, not sex/gender.

It does now, but the word derives from the feminine form of the French employé, so if the masseur/-euse distinction is to be made in English, why should it not apply in the case of an employee?

But in reality I was being flippant: the answer is simply that English provides no adequate way to distinguish between employ and employe, so using the feminine form and pronouncing it ee is the next best solution. Bah goom.

It's amusing to note, though, that while PC has done its best to eliminate gender-linked versions of nouns, e.g. waitresses and waiters must now become waitpersons or something of the kind (service professionals? :facepalm:), the masculine and feminine versions of masseur waltz happily on, presumably because of the louche associations some attach to masseuse.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4603 on: 11 July, 2017, 10:06:57 am »
"blocks up to 100% of unwanted calls"

on the side of a phone packaging.

Well it can't block more than 100% can it. Whilst absolutely accurate that statement is utterly pointless
Ah yes ...

The various "upto x" statements have featured before on this thread, and are well deserved of their inclusion!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4604 on: 11 July, 2017, 10:53:46 am »
"blocks up to 100% of unwanted calls"

on the side of a phone packaging.

Well it can't block more than 100% can it. Whilst absolutely accurate that statement is utterly pointless

It's not so much pointless, it is meaningless.  If it didn't block any unwanted calls at all, the statement would not be false; it implies good performance without promising it.  The test of reasonable expectation might apply if you had a good lawyer.   
Move Faster and Bake Things

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4605 on: 11 July, 2017, 02:50:31 pm »
Verbs need to agree with their subjects. This is true in virtually* every language in the world. You certainly can't say "Great Britain and Poland is threatened," especially when you follow it with "We have... ".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40509632

*There is one North American language where verbs agree with the subject's possessor: My horse am black, your horse are white.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4606 on: 12 July, 2017, 03:17:52 pm »
Japanese doesn't do number or gender. Everything desu*, regardless of how many desu: I desu, you desu, they desu, we desu, he/she (no difference) desu, etc. 

*Dess, not dess-oo.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4607 on: 13 July, 2017, 10:33:21 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/13/american-english-language-study

Scroll down and there's a graph showing Americanisation vs Britishization of English in various countries. I love that vocabulary in the USA is less American than in Mexico or Brazil and spelling in the UK is less British than in Ireland! Canada is also a fun exception to the general pattern, with broadly British spelling and mostly American vocabulary. It would be interesting to look at grammar and pronunciation along the same lines too (but even more misleading to push them into two neat boxes).

(No grumbles were made in the writing of this post.)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4608 on: 13 July, 2017, 11:43:28 am »
I read of the unfortunate demise of a man who has fallen about 100 feet to his death.

He apparently worked as a a sports masseuse in Brighton's Grand Hotel.

Males are masseurs, n'est-ce pas?

Indeed, and how do you call a man who does the job of a midwife? A midwife or a midhusband?

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4609 on: 13 July, 2017, 02:02:32 pm »
I suspect it'll be an abomination like male midwife. (I think we've just about seen off male nurse.)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4610 on: 13 July, 2017, 02:09:55 pm »
I'd imagine the term midwife would be replaced by something like birth assistant or natal specialist nurse (this last probably not used in South Africa!)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4611 on: 13 July, 2017, 02:51:12 pm »
Some friends and I had an interesting conversation yesterday leading on from a comment I made relating to them that I had been gifted some rhubarb by a generous neighbour.  Two of them in particular were adamant that I gift or gifted could not be used as a verb.   

Websters dictionary, which was on the shelf in the pub and is regularly used by crossworders, supported my use of gifted used as a transitive verb though my own OED is silent on the matter.   I'd be interested in the opinions of the learned folk herein.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4612 on: 13 July, 2017, 03:27:28 pm »
I suspect it'll be an abomination like male midwife. (I think we've just about seen off male nurse.)
ISTRC midwife has managed not to become "male". Etymologically speaking the "wife" bit refers to the woman giving birth, not the person helping.

Wiki says it better;
Quote
The word derives from Old English mid, "with" and wif, "woman", and thus originally meant "with-woman", that is, the woman who is with the mother at childbirth
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4613 on: 13 July, 2017, 04:26:54 pm »
I'd imagine the term midwife would be replaced by something like birth assistant or natal specialist nurse (this last probably not used in South Africa!)

I like the birth assistant, as it is really neutral. In French, people say "sage-femme" (wise woman) no matter whether the person is male or female. It feels really awkward for a male.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4614 on: 13 July, 2017, 05:08:56 pm »
From vague memories of the history of medicine modules I took way back when, I believe the term was historically (17th-18th-c.?) 'man-midwife'.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4615 on: 13 July, 2017, 05:15:56 pm »
Some friends and I had an interesting conversation yesterday leading on from a comment I made relating to them that I had been gifted some rhubarb by a generous neighbour.  Two of them in particular were adamant that I gift or gifted could not be used as a verb.   

Websters dictionary, which was on the shelf in the pub and is regularly used by crossworders, supported my use of gifted used as a transitive verb though my own OED is silent on the matter.   I'd be interested in the opinions of the learned folk herein.

Dodgy one, that.  I have a feeling that to gift is an archaic usage revived not so long ago (10 - 20 years, maybe) in the US as an aid to pomposity, and smuggled into normal English via the Internet.  I avoid it.

I can't think of any others just now, but in the past I have looked up other strange usages only to find that they date from the 16th century.

Irrelevantly, our bank manager once turned up on our doorstep with a big parcel of rhubarb after he nearly knocked me off my bike while driving a cultivator.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4616 on: 13 July, 2017, 05:19:49 pm »
I suspect it'll be an abomination like male midwife. (I think we've just about seen off male nurse.)

Incidentally, the mid- means with, not in the middle.

Not fond of birth assistant, they're a deal too marvellous to merely assist.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4617 on: 13 July, 2017, 05:47:30 pm »
I though midwife originated as mit wife (saxon, dutch etc), i.e. as pointed out above, literally with the wife
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4618 on: 13 July, 2017, 11:27:37 pm »
This is right, hence no need to change it. Though that doesn't mean it won't happen.  :-\
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4619 on: 13 July, 2017, 11:28:57 pm »
Some friends and I had an interesting conversation yesterday leading on from a comment I made relating to them that I had been gifted some rhubarb by a generous neighbour.  Two of them in particular were adamant that I gift or gifted could not be used as a verb.   

Websters dictionary, which was on the shelf in the pub and is regularly used by crossworders, supported my use of gifted used as a transitive verb though my own OED is silent on the matter.   I'd be interested in the opinions of the learned folk herein.

Dodgy one, that.  I have a feeling that to gift is an archaic usage revived not so long ago (10 - 20 years, maybe) in the US as an aid to pomposity, and smuggled into normal English via the Internet.  I avoid it.

I can't think of any others just now, but in the past I have looked up other strange usages only to find that they date from the 16th century.

Irrelevantly, our bank manager once turned up on our doorstep with a big parcel of rhubarb after he nearly knocked me off my bike while driving a cultivator.
Garden cultivator or farm machinery? I can't imagine a UK bank manager in charge of agricultural equipment!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4620 on: 17 July, 2017, 02:05:45 pm »
Quote
Upon inspection of the external walls we can report that these were mainly painted solid brickwork, with some areas having rendered finish, these elevations appeared to be in reasonable condition, considering the age of the property, however, there was hairline to 2mm cracking in evidence to a few isolated areas, this was particularly prevalent to the front of the property, where the staircase anex (sic) adjoined the main property on the right-hand side, around the corner of the window, we attribute this to be possible differential movement of the related foundations and the movement appears historic but potentially ongoing.
Where to start?

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4621 on: 17 July, 2017, 03:47:26 pm »
In school, but it's too late.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4622 on: 17 July, 2017, 05:52:28 pm »
Standard surveyorese, but at least it's clear. I read that sentence and knew exactly what it meant - to my mind, the grammar is secondary.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4623 on: 17 July, 2017, 06:40:08 pm »
Where to start?

Hack out the heart with a blunt knife. By the time you've done that, you should have got into your rhythm and the rest will come naturally.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ian

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #4624 on: 17 July, 2017, 07:37:26 pm »
House surveys are always written like that. All surveyors run an old version of Word which a special Clippy add-on. I see you're writing a house survey, it chirpily declares from the bottom of the screen. What it does is ensure every sentence is equivocal. While it looks like your house isn't falling down, it might be falling down. To every statement is attached a clause that undoes it. You should be left at the end scratching your head, no clearer whether the house you plan to buy is going to stand until the end of time or collapse the next time someone slams the front door. Don't be under the illusion that the £600ish you sprung for a 'building survey' is worth them committing to anything close to a decisive opinion.

So yes, hack out their heart, and raise a couple of demons. Given access to suitable array of culinary equipment they can be splendidly and creatively persuasive.