[HAMR] A new women's HAM'R challenger- Amanda Coker

[mrcharly-YHT]

Being technical and pedantic, nobody has any record until they've submitted their claim and had it ratified.

Last week I ran so fast to catch the bus, I broke the 100m world record. What, doesn't anyone believe me?

We've been here before.

None of us (I believe) doubt that Amanda has been putting in the miles. I believe she's been complying with the HAMR record-keeping requirements. So there is no reason to believe that she won't be awarded a HAMR woman's world record when she submits her records.

[orraloon]

She is +2700 miles on Kurt's (average?) pace so if she carries on like this, she will be THE world HAM'R holder.

[Polar Bear]

I've said nothing about Kajsa and rules.

Amanda is the current women's year record holder. Suggesting anything else is incorrect.

My post was in response to more than one post from more than one person.

A claim has been made that Kajsa has broken the Guinness rules which she has not.

A claim has been made that Amanda is the new record holder which is undeniably incorrect as her 365 day mileage has yet to be ratified.    Indeed, we don't even know what her 365 day mileage is yet and it's going to be a very long autumn and winter before we do.

The current women's record is still in the name of Billie Fleming nee Dovey.   This is irrefutable.

Now, can we get back to actually watching in awe at what Amanda and Kajsa are achieving please?

She is +2700 miles on Kurt's (average?) pace so if she carries on like this, she will be THE world HAM'R holder.

Absolutely.  She WILL BE and her achievement will be undeniably awesome.   

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Amanda has ridden more miles within a year than any woman ever. That is a record right now.

[Polar Bear]

It's a fact but not a ratified record.   There is a difference.   Can't you see this?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It is a record, just not ratified yet. Can you see this?

[Polar Bear]

A record simply is not a record until it is ratified.   There is therefore nothing for me to see.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Believe what you like. Two ladies are riding for their own amusement. Amanda is riding for the record.

[mattc]

It's a fact but not a ratified record.   There is a difference.   Can't you see this?

The difference is somewhere between pedantry & philosophy.

These are both popular areas for discussion - not just on YACF - but I think we've done the debate here. You either agree with one side or the other, I think new evidence or arguments are unlikely. we could quote the UMCA position, or indeed the Guiness position, but some spectators will disagree with one or both.

(And I'm bored of it - can we get back to Gibbon talk?)

[Exit Stage Left]

The US TV coverage goes to show the importance of a broader story to tell. It's heartening to see Amanda get such pleasure from what she's doing, and to see her parents' joy in her achievement.
I'd certainly not begrudge her use of an off-road circuit, given her history.
The broader question of safety during such a record attempt is an interesting one. I've talked to people who can't believe that the Mersey Roads 24 takes place in traffic.
So I wonder what overall message about road cycling viewers will get from Amanda's ride.

[Wowbagger]

"The Record" is held by Billie Fleming. She alone has set a marker for the highest number of miles by a woman in one year. Of the three current protogonists, none has yet set a record, which must be a marker for future protagonists, because they haven't finished yet.

Anything could happen to any of the three during the coming months to stop their attempt in its tracks. I sincerely hope it doesn't, and that they all carry on doing what they are doing/want to do. But until they have set their final total for the year, and it has been ratified by the relevant authorities, they won't have set a new record.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Believe what you like.

[sizbut]

"The Record" is held by Billie Fleming.

Well said.

[Jaded]

"The Record" is held by Billie Fleming.

Hooray for a bit of sense.

[Pale Rider]

The record is about distance in a maximum allotted time.

Amanda has cycled the most miles in up to a year by any woman.

She could quit tomorrow, and, to suit the pedants, get her mileage ratified, but Billie's record is already broken.

Amanda doesn't have to cycle the full year, or every day, to be the record holder.

Looks like she may beat Kurt with anything to a month to spare.

Is she beats Kurt with 20 days in hand and then stops, will anyone seriously say she hasn't got the overall record?

[Jaded]

Yes. Until ratified.

[tonyh]

You either agree with one side or the other

I disagree!
I agree with both!

[Pale Rider]

Yes. Until ratified.

This is not like the FA Cup where the only club that can hold the cup is the one to which the it's awarded to by the FA.

No body has exclusive rights to distance cycling records.

All ratification by some organisation or other does is provide extra support for the validity of the mileage covered.

Perhaps I'm gullible, but I believe the mileage declared by Amanda, Kajsa, and Kurt.

There's no doubt in my mind each has done the miles they've declared, so ratification is irrelevant.

[Wowbagger]

I too believe the mileages posted by Amanda, Kajsa and Alicia. However, if you consider that Amanda is now the record holder, I believe you also have to be able to state what her distance is. Because she is still piling on the miles, you can't do that.

For a record to be of any value, there has to be ratification, and a target for future attempts. Take a look at the spreadsheets for Kurt's attempt last year. For whatever reason, there are discrepancy between the miles posted on there and his final, ratified, total. For all we know Amanda's total might need some adjusting as well.

Here is a hypothetical , and extremely unlikely, question. Suppose after reaching 40,000 miles, Amanda "declared" her attempt over and asked for her record to be ratified, and the UMCA agreed with that total and posted it as a new record. Could she then add on any more miles she happened to cycle in the year?

What about Steve's month attempt? If he gets that, but in the same time, Amanda cycles more miles within her year record, does he hold the record? Of course he does! We are pretty sure that Tommy Godwin posted some huge months in his year, but no one considers them the record, because he didn't enter a "Month" record attempt.

[Chris S]

Didn't Kurt have to ride every day in order for the UCMA record to count? ISTR he had to get a few km in, even when he was on a drip dehydrated from the effects of food poisoning? This rather implies that it's a 365 day record, and nobody "wins" anything until they've ridden 365 consecutive days, but I know nothing about the rules they're riding to.

[Jaded]

Yes. Until ratified.

This is not like the FA Cup where the only club that can hold the cup is the one to which the it's awarded to by the FA.

No body has exclusive rights to distance cycling records.

All ratification by some organisation or other does is provide extra support for the validity of the mileage covered.

Perhaps I'm gullible, but I believe the mileage declared by Amanda, Kajsa, and Kurt.

There's no doubt in my mind each has done the miles they've declared, so ratification is irrelevant.

Ah, I see. Forest Green Rovers currently hold the FA Cup. Thanks for that.

[mattc]

You either agree with one side or the other

I disagree!
I agree with both!

Stirrer.

[mattc]

Didn't Kurt have to ride every day in order for the UCMA record to count? ISTR he had to get a few km in, even when he was on a drip dehydrated from the effects of food poisoning? This rather implies that it's a 365 day record, and nobody "wins" anything until they've ridden 365 consecutive days, but I know nothing about the rules they're riding to.

I've never heard of this rule. I don't believe Steve met it in the week after his accident.

And how would you define it?
"I got on the bike and rolled down our drive; Alicia caught me at the bottom and put me straight back on the stretcher."


Oh heck, I'm getting drawn in again ...       

[mrcharly-YHT]

Yes. Until ratified.

This is not like the FA Cup where the only club that can hold the cup is the one to which the it's awarded to by the FA.

No body has exclusive rights to distance cycling records.

All ratification by some organisation or other does is provide extra support for the validity of the mileage covered.

Perhaps I'm gullible, but I believe the mileage declared by Amanda, Kajsa, and Kurt.

There's no doubt in my mind each has done the miles they've declared, so ratification is irrelevant.

Ratification is irrelevant?

Really? I don't doubt amanda, kaysa or kurt, either. That's mostly because they are meticulous about recording their rides. They are upstanding people. And they are meticulous about recording their rides.

Ratification of records is important. It isn't irrelevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Crowhurst

[Pale Rider]

Yes. Until ratified.

This is not like the FA Cup where the only club that can hold the cup is the one to which the it's awarded to by the FA.

No body has exclusive rights to distance cycling records.

All ratification by some organisation or other does is provide extra support for the validity of the mileage covered.

Perhaps I'm gullible, but I believe the mileage declared by Amanda, Kajsa, and Kurt.

There's no doubt in my mind each has done the miles they've declared, so ratification is irrelevant.

Ratification is irrelevant?

Really? I don't doubt amanda, kaysa or kurt, either. That's mostly because they are meticulous about recording their rides. They are upstanding people. And they are meticulous about recording their rides.

Ratification of records is important. It isn't irrelevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Crowhurst

Crowhurst was more than 45 years ago.

You may have noticed some technological advances since then in the way a moving object can be tracked.

All posting about Crowhurst does is cast doubt on Billie, Godwin and the other records which were not fully witnessed.

Amanda has quite reasonably and properly claimed the record.

All this nit picking, hair splitting pedantry about terminology and ratification does is make those doing it appear to be sad, sour Little Englanders who are upset at losing the record.

Were the nationalities of the two women reversed, would there be the same whining and twisting on here?

Of course not.