Tales from the Lock-Down

[citoyen]

I understood that if you’re just driving through and don’t stop then it’s ok.

I wondered about that but it seems far from clear going by what I heard on the radio earlier. There was a chap who was doing the same thing - travelling from the Netherlands to the UK, via Belgium, and he said he had been told he would have to self-isolate when he got home even if he didn't leave his car while crossing Belgium.

Which is just silly, really.

[robgul]

I understood that if you’re just driving through and don’t stop then it’s ok.

I wondered about that but it seems far from clear going by what I heard on the radio earlier. There was a chap who was doing the same thing - travelling from the Netherlands to the UK, via Belgium, and he said he had been told he would have to self-isolate when he got home even if he didn't leave his car while crossing Belgium.

Which is just silly, really.

If you drive through Belgium how is anyone going to know? - there are no border controls for us (yet ) ... surely it's only if you arrive in the UK by plane, train or ferry from Belgium that anyone would know?

[orienteer]

What's the position on the Amsterdam to London Eurostar?

[Auntie Helen]

Found this on the government page:

Private vehicles
You don’t need to self-isolate if you travel through a non-exempt country and you don’t stop in the country.

If you do make a stop, you don’t need to self-isolate if:

no new people get into the vehicle
no-one in the vehicle gets out, mixes with other people, and gets in again
You do need to self-isolate if you make a stop and:

new people get into the vehicle, or
someone gets out of the vehicle, mixes with other people and gets in again

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-corridors#transit-stops

[citoyen]

Thanks, Auntie H, that does seem pretty clear! The chap on the radio was probably talking shite. I’ll pass the info on to the boy - he’s away on holiday right now so I don’t know if he has been giving the matter much thought but I’m sure he’ll find that useful.

[citoyen]

If you drive through Belgium how is anyone going to know?

Same thought crossed my mind but I’d still be paranoid about getting caught if it were me doing it!

Anyway, I’m not Dominic Cummings - I take these kind of restrictions at face value, rather than choose to think they’re open to interpretation if it suits me to do otherwise.

[MikeFromLFE]

What's the position on the Amsterdam to London Eurostar?

The Man in Seat 61 twitter feed was trying to unravel this yesterday with no firm conclusion.
It may depend on whether Belgian traveller's are isolated from Dutch passengers, but in any case there's a stop at Lille (in France)

[Tim Hall]

Anyway, I’m not Dominic Cummings - I take these kind of restrictions at face value, rather than choose to think they’re open to interpretation if it suits me to do otherwise.

This. Many times this.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I went to Wilko's yesterday. They had a man standing at the door making sure everyone was wearing a mask (he commented on the snazzy – his word – design of mine). All but one of the tills have been converted to self-service. Hardly a new concept but new in this store and confusing because not only was I not expecting it, but there were no signs and they still looked like – were – normal tills, with a conveyor belt and a place for the operator to sit. Operators now replaced by one staff tasked with training customers.

[Edd]

I went to Wilko's yesterday. They had a man standing at the door making sure everyone was wearing a mask (he commented on the snazzy – his word – design of mine). All but one of the tills have been converted to self-service. Hardly a new concept but new in this store and confusing because not only was I not expecting it, but there were no signs and they still looked like – were – normal tills, with a conveyor belt and a place for the operator to sit. Operators now replaced by one staff tasked with training customers.

That seems a bit depressing, training customers to take away your job...

[Cudzoziemiec]

I guess there'll always be a need for someone to oversee the self-scan tills, in order to deter theft and verify ID when someone wants to buy an age-restricted product such as glue or razor blades. So he's the one who's kept his job while his colleagues lost theirs. Though of course I don't know if they've lost them; it might a time-share arrangement or something. They might even be intending to bring back person-operated tills (they still had one) in the future, though comparison with other shops suggests this is unlikely.

[FifeingEejit]

Also depends on how the shop organizers people.
If they have people who are exclusively till operators rather than general shop assistants who do "everything"

I know in Tesco near me, the same staff that stack shelves work the checkouts (Im far too consistent with my timing when I actually go in),
I believe Lidl is a bit different.

Does mean potentially less people to run the shop, but then that may just mean less jobs for students rather than less permanent jobs.

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[Kim]

In a big-picture sense, people shouldn't need to do boring work that can reasonably be done by a computer in order to survive.  On that basis, the jobs objection to self-checkouts seems short-sighted, especially when they have obvious accessibility (and coronavirus safety) benefits.

[citoyen]

I read the other day that Tesco have cancelled contracts with two of the cleaning contractors they use and shop staff are now being given cleaning duties.

So I guess that's what they're doing now they're not on the tills.

[ian]

When I was little, I worked part-time at the Coop. I wasn't able to drive a till until I was 16, but I did it all. Shelf-stacking, loading the cages for the shelf-stackers), tutting at their poor attempts at facing up displays and rotating the stock, and every Saturday afternoon I got to put away all the veg and clean up all the displays, getting rid of all the mushy stuff that had fallen down the back.

Actually, I have fond memories of that, because it was always the downward slope from 3pm on Saturday afternoon (I'm old enough that supermarkets still closed at 5pm).

I was also the store detective, though I mostly let people get away with it. Old ladies stealing tins of salmon for their cats was the main thing (it got so bad they had to sell it from behind the cigarette counter). I was also the only person trusted by the manager with access to the booze and cigarettes storeroom. To be fair, I never nicked anything, but I did once drop twelve bottles of whisky.

[Cudzoziemiec]

In a big-picture sense, people shouldn't need to do boring work that can reasonably be done by a computer in order to survive.  On that basis, the jobs objection to self-checkouts seems short-sighted, especially when they have obvious accessibility (and coronavirus safety) benefits.

I'll take your word on the accessibility benefits, but I'm not sure if it's safer coronavirus-wise for lots of people to handle a scanner (it's the gun type, cos it was tills beforehand, not the type where you wave the object in front of a screen) that's been handled by lots of other people, or for one person to handle other person's items.

Actually, I'll question the accessibility benefits as well. If you're blind, who's going to read the display to you? I'm also not sure how wheelchair friendly it is; you have to lean across the conveyor to use the scanner, look at the screen and press the payment button, and reach the card payment terminal. All that's been done to make it customer-usable is to turn the screen round. And if you want to pay cash (or cheque!) you'll have to use the human-operated till.

[Wowbagger]

In a big-picture sense, people shouldn't need to do boring work that can reasonably be done by a computer in order to survive.  On that basis, the jobs objection to self-checkouts seems short-sighted, especially when they have obvious accessibility (and coronavirus safety) benefits.

In principle I'd agree, but in practice the checkout person at the supermarket may well be doing a great job in speaking to people who have no other contacts. Of course, we shouldn't be running a society the way we do, but sadly we've got the fucking Tories in charge.

As a side-note, I was talking to my brother about Things and Stuff the other day. I can't recall the precise context, but I likened the Tories to the daleks. "I think I prefer the daleks..." he replied.

[Mr Larrington]

I went to Wilko's yesterday. They had a man standing at the door making sure everyone was wearing a mask (he commented on the snazzy – his word – design of mine). All but one of the tills have been converted to self-service. Hardly a new concept but new in this store and confusing because not only was I not expecting it, but there were no signs and they still looked like – were – normal tills, with a conveyor belt and a place for the operator to sit. Operators now replaced by one staff tasked with training customers.

That seems a bit depressing, training customers to take away your job...

When The Mgt decided to move my then-employer’s award-winning IT Helldesk to Indiah, in order to enhance shareholder value, the soon-to-be-redundant Helldesk droids were expected train the honest Hindoo coolies who would soon be taking over.  Surprisingly, only one of them told The Mgt to piss up a rope; he took the money instead and invested it in a high-yield extended motorcycle tour of USAnia.

[tatanab]

In principle I'd agree, but in practice the checkout person at the supermarket may well be doing a great job in speaking to people who have no other contacts.

That is me.  Since I've not been able to meet cycling clubs there have been many weeks where my social interaction is limited to "hello and thank you" at the till.  A very few of my local shops are self checkout only and consequently have lost my business (small as it might be).

[Kim]

In a big-picture sense, people shouldn't need to do boring work that can reasonably be done by a computer in order to survive.  On that basis, the jobs objection to self-checkouts seems short-sighted, especially when they have obvious accessibility (and coronavirus safety) benefits.

I'll take your word on the accessibility benefits, but I'm not sure if it's safer coronavirus-wise for lots of people to handle a scanner (it's the gun type, cos it was tills beforehand, not the type where you wave the object in front of a screen) that's been handled by lots of other people, or for one person to handle other person's items.

Yeah, that's much less good.

Actually, I'll question the accessibility benefits as well. If you're blind, who's going to read the display to you? I'm also not sure how wheelchair friendly it is; you have to lean across the conveyor to use the scanner, look at the screen and press the payment button, and reach the card payment terminal. All that's been done to make it customer-usable is to turn the screen round. And if you want to pay cash (or cheque!) you'll have to use the human-operated till.

They're a massive win for deaf users, because they stick to their script and you don't have to be able to hear them (okay, they tend to talk by default, but you can turn that off or ignore it).  Some of them can speak multiple languages.  And you can take as long as you like fiddling with your money or packing your shopping, because you're not holding up a checkout operator or specific queue of customers.

Obviously those things aren't beneficial to everyone.  Which is why you still need the option of a checkout operator.

Many of them take cash.  Indeed, pre-COVID it was my preferred method of dealing with small change (which barakta would accumulate, because hand impairment).

[Cudzoziemiec]

Actually, I'll question the accessibility benefits as well. If you're blind, who's going to read the display to you? I'm also not sure how wheelchair friendly it is; you have to lean across the conveyor to use the scanner, look at the screen and press the payment button, and reach the card payment terminal. All that's been done to make it customer-usable is to turn the screen round. And if you want to pay cash (or cheque!) you'll have to use the human-operated till.

They're a massive win for deaf users, because they stick to their script and you don't have to be able to hear them (okay, they tend to talk by default, but you can turn that off or ignore it).  Some of them can speak multiple languages.  And you can take as long as you like fiddling with your money or packing your shopping, because you're not holding up a checkout operator or specific queue of customers.

Obviously those things aren't beneficial to everyone.  Which is why you still need the option of a checkout operator.

Many of them take cash.  Indeed, pre-COVID it was my preferred method of dealing with small change (which barakta would accumulate, because hand impairment).

Those are the purpose-made self-scan tills. Wilko doesn't have those (at least not in the branch I went to). It has cashier-operated tills at which you have to be the cashier and customer, but all from the customer side. They don't speak and they don't take cash, cos you don't have access to the cash drawer.

[quixoticgeek]

Many of them take cash.  Indeed, pre-COVID it was my preferred method of dealing with small change (which barakta would accumulate, because hand impairment).

When Sainsbury's first installed self checkouts, they had a simple hopper you could pour coins into. Unfortunately the internal container for them is slightly under 1 pint. As I discovered when I poured in 1 pint of 2p coins... or rather about 90% of 1 pint of 2p coins...

They have since put a cover on with a slot, so you have to put the coins in individually... The just under 1 pint limit still exists. But you get glared at feeding them in one by one...

J

[jsabine]

They have since put a cover on with a slot, so you have to put the coins in individually...

It's a flip-up cover, at least on some models of self checkout. (I'm sure I read that here, and thus knew to look for it last week when I had a pocketful of change I wanted to use.)

[cygnet]

The [house of toothy comestibles] near to where I lived prior to the start of all this was progressing to more new closer stacked self service, card only tills.

They had to "off-limit" 50% of them.

My new local hotc had not been subjected to the same enthusiasm for space / staff / cost saving. And has far smaller queues as a result.

[pcolbeck]

Our little village in the middle of nowhere and on the way to nowhere has been even quieter than normal during lock-down. The police normally drive through once a year to make sure its still here.
This week there have been an unmarked police car which stopped and asked for directions to a house and marked cars pootling around at 10mph  for the last few days.

As you would expect this has got people talking. The rumour mill is working overtime with the current favourites being a meth lab, violent poachers in the area and someone having a connection to organised crime that's gone a bit pear shaped.

I suspect the poaching one is the most likely.

The last time there was police activity anything like at this scale was twenty years ago when the top scientists at MAFF (which has labs about ten miles away) was staying in a guest house in the village and there were credible threats against him from animal rights extremists. Then there was an unmarked police car with an armed response team parked on the edge of the village every night.