Author Topic: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.  (Read 8397 times)

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #50 on: 17 January, 2021, 06:35:22 pm »
I don't think that the number of people who care about privacy is small at all.  Ask people if they'd leave a webcam running 24x7 n their bedroom or bathroom for instance and you'd struggle to find more than a small few.  However, when it comes to software and personal data sharing people have a blind spot because 1: they don't really understand the consequences, 2: they don't actually believe the facts and 3: they truly believe that they are getting something special for nothing. 

I suspect most people here do online banking these days as well as use some form of loyalty card or scheme or even multiple versions thereof, happily have their smart speakers on at all times and have their location settings active on their smartphones through which they manage and/or use most or all of the above as well as their social media etc., etc., etc.

When folk say that people have a choice in reality the choice is to not be part of "modern" society or to submit.  It is very difficult to minimise corporate snooping.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #51 on: 17 January, 2021, 06:36:03 pm »

>>Software licenses for an open source product?
Well, yes. Anything of the scale we are talking about will need some commercial software in there somewhere, and it is going to be $$$. Basically, my experience is open source is fine and dandy but doesn't hack it at scale, not least of which is building your enterprise entirely on open source exposes you to some pretty nasty day-0 attack risks.


Just had a look at GitHub, looks to me like it is the protocols that are open source, not the systems. Much happier to be wrong in that respect coz I am venturing into an area wot I don't really know about.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #52 on: 17 January, 2021, 06:41:01 pm »

Just had a look at GitHub, looks to me like it is the protocols that are open source, not the systems. Much happier to be wrong in that respect coz I am venturing into an area wot I don't really know about.

Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's. And will provide their services to ICE. I'm not sure anyone should be using them.

You could use gitlab. That has a free to use option that you can fully self host...

And even if you do pay for software licenses for a few products. That's still not going to cost you 200,000,000 per month... or even 20,000,000...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #53 on: 17 January, 2021, 07:40:47 pm »
How does Signal make money?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #54 on: 17 January, 2021, 07:41:41 pm »
How does Signal make money?

It's a not for profit that is funded by donations.

Next.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #55 on: 17 January, 2021, 08:08:13 pm »
OK, looking into it, the picture is more complicated.


https://signal.org/blog/signal-foundation/

Quote
the entire Signal team has never been more than 7 people. With three client platforms to develop, a service to build and run, a growing list of integrations to assist with, and millions of users to support, that has often left us wanting.

The $50M is seed funding to expand.

From https://whatisthebusinessmodelof.com/business-models/signal-business-model/

Quote
As far as WhatsApp’s revenue is concerned, accurate earning statements are hard to come by, but WhatsApp’s revenue currently comes from businesses utilizing the service to communicate with customers directly, and the company also plans to integrate payments into the app.


Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #56 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:11:45 pm »
Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

I assume this is relevant: https://github.blog/2021-01-17-update-on-an-employee-matter/

(Investigation following protests; head of HR has resigned; public apology and offer of reinstatement to employee.)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #57 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:42:06 pm »
Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

I assume this is relevant: https://github.blog/2021-01-17-update-on-an-employee-matter/

(Investigation following protests; head of HR has resigned; public apology and offer of reinstatement to employee.)

Yep I saw that. They keep fucking up tho. Their continued support of ICE is also a major issue.

Yes they have offered to reinstate the poor sod they fired, and they through head of HR on a sword. But the fact they got this far is indicative of institutional failures within the organisation.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #58 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:42:40 pm »

Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

As I am supposed to be anti semetic, why does the employee being Jewish matter? 

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #59 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:46:17 pm »

Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

As I am supposed to be anti semetic, why does the employee being Jewish matter?

That is a very good question. It comes up in a lot of the headlines and articles on the story. I.e.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/17/22235913/github-significant-mistakes-were-made-firing-jewish-employee-nazis

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #60 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:50:14 pm »
So, Signal is good.

Signal may become shit in the future.

So, when it becomes shit, what's the new Signal?
It is simpler than it looks.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #61 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:50:44 pm »
IRC

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #62 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:52:21 pm »
IRC

Nostalgia, isn't what it used to be.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #63 on: 17 January, 2021, 10:54:56 pm »
IRC

Nostalgia, isn't what it used to be.

IRC pretty much is, though.  I don't doubt it will outlast Signal, just like all the other messaging apps.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #64 on: 17 January, 2021, 11:02:46 pm »
IRC pretty much is, though.  I don't doubt it will outlast Signal, just like all the other messaging apps.

Yup...

Still using IRC. With the same setup I've been using since 2002...

It Just Works™

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #65 on: 17 January, 2021, 11:03:06 pm »
IRC

Nostalgia, isn't what it used to be.

IRC pretty much is, though.  I don't doubt it will outlast Signal, just like all the other messaging apps.

I'm giving up humour.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #66 on: 17 January, 2021, 11:07:23 pm »
I'm giving up humour.

It's ok, 2020 was the mortal blow...

--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #67 on: 17 January, 2021, 11:11:07 pm »
Is IRC secure?

Remember donating to use a freeware irc software.

Wondered the other day if I should wander back to IRC and see what is going on see if there are chat rooms still there that are a bit more interesting and less like reddit.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #68 on: 17 January, 2021, 11:12:50 pm »
I'm giving up humour.

It's ok, 2020 was the mortal blow...

J

I'm going to become Jewish for the humor.... Bryan Cranston as a dentist was amusing.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #69 on: 17 January, 2021, 11:25:24 pm »
Is IRC secure?

Remember donating to use a freeware irc software.

Wondered the other day if I should wander back to IRC and see what is going on see if there are chat rooms still there that are a bit more interesting and less like reddit.

Depends on your definition of secure.

Depends on the server you use

Depends who you're talking to

Depends how you use it.

It can be. It is not by default.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

ian

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #70 on: 18 January, 2021, 09:23:50 am »
OK, looking into it, the picture is more complicated.


https://signal.org/blog/signal-foundation/

Quote
the entire Signal team has never been more than 7 people. With three client platforms to develop, a service to build and run, a growing list of integrations to assist with, and millions of users to support, that has often left us wanting.

The $50M is seed funding to expand.

From https://whatisthebusinessmodelof.com/business-models/signal-business-model/

Quote
As far as WhatsApp’s revenue is concerned, accurate earning statements are hard to come by, but WhatsApp’s revenue currently comes from businesses utilizing the service to communicate with customers directly, and the company also plans to integrate payments into the app.

$50 million isn't going to go far, so they're going to be reliant on donations pretty quickly. As said, it's not really a business model. People ultimately don't care about privacy. I use Whatsapp because other people do and if I didn't I'd be talking to myself. It's a nice idea and I hope it's successful because I don't like FB, but I'd be surprised after this first rush of media fomented anti-Whatsappery, most people don't just go back to what they're currently using.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #71 on: 18 January, 2021, 09:29:44 am »
$50 million isn't going to go far, so they're going to be reliant on donations pretty quickly. As said, it's not really a business model. People ultimately don't care about privacy. I use Whatsapp because other people do and if I didn't I'd be talking to myself. It's a nice idea and I hope it's successful because I don't like FB, but I'd be surprised after this first rush of media fomented anti-Whatsappery, most people don't just go back to what they're currently using.

Well they've been around since 2014, so they are certainly no short term operation...

I'm in a state now where I have telegram, signal, discord, irc, and twitter. Some people I know are on all of them, some I talk to only via one of them. It reminds me a lot of the instant messenger wars of the late 20th century (anyone else remember their ICQ number?)

For a non-profit, $50m can go surprisingly far if you are sensible. I've seen talk of them having only 7 employees. Which seems not entirely unreasonable. It's not like they need marketing and sales etc...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

ian

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #72 on: 18 January, 2021, 10:10:13 am »
Yes, but there are lots of platforms used by niche groups, and a few platforms used by lots of people. Scaling up to Whatsapp levels is a money-intensive process. And then you start to need sales, marketing, customer support, sales support, legal, expertise, developers, QA engineers, sysops, scrum-masters, project managers, finance and accounting, payroll, HR, technical writers, training the usual layers of management for all that, and then all the hardware and hosting and capex and opex, from pay for cloud or datacentre hosting to the PC on someone's desk, not to mention the costs of the data, licensing, etc. There's more, I'm sure, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

These days, I'm responsible for a very niche platform, and that eats double-figure millions in direct costs without accounting for much of the above.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #73 on: 18 January, 2021, 12:20:32 pm »
I don't think that the number of people who care about privacy is small at all.  Ask people if they'd leave a webcam running 24x7 n their bedroom or bathroom for instance and you'd struggle to find more than a small few. However, when it comes to software and personal data sharing people have a blind spot because 1: they don't really understand the consequences, 2: they don't actually believe the facts and 3: they truly believe that they are getting something special for nothing. 
At the moment and in those words. But don't you think the next generation Alexa etc will have a camera? You'll be able to communicate with it by smiling and waving! Put it in the kitchen, it will see you've used the next to last tin of beans and automatically add that to your supermarket order. If you put it in your kid's bedroom to keep an eye on them, video baby/toddler monitors having been around for quite some while, at what stage do you take it out? Put it in your own bedroom, it'll alert you that you put on the last clean shirt this morning and now you need to load the washing machine, which it has already set to the appropriate programme. At the moment it lacks a hook to make it as enmeshed in life as messaging apps, but perhaps internet shopping and home security apps will be that.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #74 on: 18 January, 2021, 12:31:19 pm »
I'm in a state now where I have telegram, signal, discord, irc, and twitter. Some people I know are on all of them, some I talk to only via one of them. It reminds me a lot of the instant messenger wars of the late 20th century (anyone else remember their ICQ number?)

I think this is the optimal outcome.  A hetrogenous mix of broadly overlapping systems means that they compete on features and usability.  A Facebook-style monopoly means they carefully titrate the level of shiverts, algorithmic enragement and so on the the point where users almost, but not quite, stop using it.