Author Topic: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?  (Read 42489 times)

Davef

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #375 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:25:00 pm »
Quote
The rest of the country is engaged in producing and pumping in food, water, electricity and dealing with the pumped out effluent. This needs a low population density where walking and mass transit are ineffective.
It's completely false. 80% of this country lives in towns and cities. This is a fiction designed to make people feel resigned to motoring instead of being on hand with the facts. How do people think industry used to function before you could get a car with finance? My grandpa worked at John brown in Glasgow. He got there by bike - until the authorities built the workers a scheme to live in that was miles and miles from the yard, because they could "just drive there". It's the motor car that fosters sprawl, which creates "need" for it which is why it is such an evil, pernicious machine.

Go along to Tim's meeting with the council and you'll soon find out! ;D

Bludger, the difference between you and me is that I'm doing something constructive to reduce car use . You're just shouting 'ban cars'.
It's two written words pal. This is pure projection. You have no idea what I do outside of yacf. Get a grip.

Quote
grow some balls
Holy toxic masculinity batman  :facepalm:

That this really innocuous two word slogan is triggering such an emotive reaction is a signifier of how powerful a psycho social grip the death cage has on its users.

Driving is an environmental and social disaster. It's always forced into countries using the barrel of a gun, with police ready to bash and lock up anyone who impedes "progress and development". Dependency on the car is foisted on people by authorities, by taxing them, spending their money on paved roads for drivists, negotiating sweetheart deals for the auto industry, and then slashing the services like trains and affordable buses, all while ignoring the sprawl impact of the car

You trying to frame my objection to this death spiral as "shouting" (bless) with your tone policing nonsense speaks more about yourself than it does me.

Ban cars


80% of people do not live in towns and cities. 80% live in urban environments, that is built up areas of more than 49 hectares, ie 700mx700m or about quarter of a square mile, or a few hundred houses. Possibly now with no shop, but maybe with a country pub for you to visit on your cycle rides.

Even if it is only 20% that live in more rural environments than that, that is quite a large minority. This is the area where food production mainly occurs.

Before horseless carriages came along they were reliant on horse drawn to get them to the nearest railway. I appreciate that would be quaint.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #376 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:31:37 pm »
Quote
Even if it is only 20% that live in more rural environments than that, that is quite a large minority. This is the area where food production mainly occurs
So what? That's more reason to provide the services that were slashed in the wake of motorisation. Motorisation killed the rural transport connection services of walk/cycle/bus and train, and the motor hegemony has been kept alive with fuel subsidies, anti-dense housing planning (i.e. nimbyism) and sweetheart deals with the motor lobby, at massive public expense.



This is just a other form of "what about disabled blind emergency services who need to move a fridge full of tools." Motorists sit on an obscene share of this country's fiscal pot and it's a disgrace. Cars have been a disaster for everyone. The sooner they are banned the better.

We have an entire thread on this forum documenting harassment, intimidation, recklessness and outright psychopathy by drivists https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63751.msg2497741;topicseen#msg2497741 this thread exemplifies the Stockholm syndrome of our society where our habitat is given up to motoring royalty without thinking twice.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #377 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:41:59 pm »
Cars have been a disaster for everyone. The sooner they are banned the better.

I agree, but as others have said the plan that will be mostly likely to succeed in achieving this is not simply "ban cars".
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #378 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:43:29 pm »
Go right ahead and develop that plan. It's a great idea. In the meantime I'll get on with "ban cars."
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Ban cars.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #379 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:47:36 pm »
Go right ahead and develop that plan. It's a great idea. In the meantime I'll get on with "ban cars."

It's not a plan though ("ban cars"), is it. It is just tedious, right-on sub-student politics stuff.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #380 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:48:56 pm »
I'm going one better.

"Ban pollution."

There. Job Done. Anyone just shouting "ban cars" is therefore promoting pollution and emissions from lots of other sources!
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #381 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:51:07 pm »
Beeching's report did contain the misguided assumption/erroneous excuse that people would drive to mainline stations, park and then get the train, but it wasn't really about motoring. It wasn't really about railways either it was about British Rail as a company; an attempt to get it profitable. (More misguided ideology but not that fits here.)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #382 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:53:53 pm »
Ban pollution is good but my hatred of cars goes much further than just the pollution impacts.

I hate that fewer than 20% of people think they can safely cycle in their own neighbourhoods let alone to work or to school, or for fun ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28093374 ) because they fear motorists.

I hate that motoring sucks up billions and billions of pounds in public spending which should be spent on worthwhile enterprises like sustainable transportation.

I hate the sprawl and NIMBYism that cars foster.

I hate the ghastly attitude of sports cars driving hoons who maraud around the road network making a hideous noise, with their revving engines, warbling tyres and whatever else, which is a product of their warped conception of masculinity ( https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/02/27/streetsblog-101-car-culture-is-a-toxic-masculinity-problem/ ).

Pollution is just one part of why cars are evil and have to be banned. It's an important part but by far not the only one.
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Ban cars.

ian

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #383 on: 15 May, 2020, 12:54:06 pm »
To be fair, if we converted the money we spent on personalized motorized transport to any kind of public provision, it would be splendid.

Of course, convincing people of that, well, that's a challenge, ownership is ingrained. It evidences our status and the criticising the perpetual convenience of on-demand is heretical. That's a slow, incremental process. Or we could just bomb them. Who hasn't wanted to napalm the Cotswolds? Cameron, Dyson, and my in-laws, we could take them out with one jet.

As a more moderate measure, I'd make it the law to wrap large cars with a picture of the male owner's genitalia (they'd obviously have to scale it up to make it visible) as a warning like what they do for cigarette packets. Beware, tiny penis compensation in the process.

Of course, if we were ever prised Audi owners from their metallic shells, we need special facilities to care for them.


TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #384 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:09:45 pm »
Quote
Even if it is only 20% that live in more rural environments than that, that is quite a large minority. This is the area where food production mainly occurs
So what? That's more reason to provide the services that were slashed in the wake of motorisation. Motorisation killed the rural transport connection services.

This is just a other form of "what about disabled blind emergency services who need to move a fridge full of tools." Motorists sit on an obscene share of this country's fiscal pot and it's a disgrace. Cars have been a disaster for everyone. The sooner they are banned the better.

I  don't think you really have any concept of how things work outside the urban environment.

Before mechanical transport arrived, much more of the population lived in the country because agricultural production was labour-intensive, and supply chains were necessarily short. The industrial revolution brought both depopulation of the countryside as people moved to work in the new-fangled factories, and greater access to markets as railways increased both the available speed and range of agricultural products. Railways also allowed more people from the countryside to access towns for work and shopping, but the effect was limited as the market for each station was restricted by the lack of supply mechanism - ie people had to basically walk to get a train. Railways did, however, provide the impetus for country towns to grow as both import and export of goods became much easier and cheaper.

The introduction of motor vehicles (mainly buses and lorries) impacted railways obviously, but it also enabled more efficient production from agriculture, with the result that people lost their jobs on farms and moved to towns to work. That process basically continued until property prices made it ever more difficult for country people to move into towns, and so, as vehicles got cheaper, they began commuting. And people from towns started moving further out so they could afford the now-cheap houses that better suited their needs. Production of all factory-made products (including cars) got cheaper as efficiencies came along, and the big towns got bigger and more expensive.

As more and more people became mobile, buses got less and less economical to provide in the countryside, to the extent that country bus services are now in danger of extinction. The population movement that started to bring people out to the country has stalled as commutes have become more difficult and people realise that they lose their place on the property gravy-train by leaving expensive towns for the cheap countryside (and even in the Cotswolds it's cheap compared to London). Meantime, those of us who never left the countryside (in my case because of a family history of military service, not agriculture) are pretty much trapped here by property prices. You want to seal the trap by taking away personal transport. As I said many pages ago, 'from my cold, dead hands'. However, you help me reduce the amount of driving in our country towns by making it easier to walk and ride, and reduce the amount of car commuting to big towns by improving public transport (when we can use it again), and I'm your man. We need to shift the balance, not eliminate any part of the mix.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #385 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:19:15 pm »
Ban pollution is good but my hatred of cars goes much further than just the pollution impacts.

I hate that fewer than 20% of people think they can safely cycle in their own neighbourhoods let alone to work or to school, or for fun ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28093374 ) because they fear motorists.

I hate that motoring sucks up billions and billions of pounds in public spending which should be spent on worthwhile enterprises like sustainable transportation.

I hate the sprawl and NIMBYism that cars foster.

I hate the ghastly attitude of sports cars driving hoons who maraud around the road network making a hideous noise, with their revving engines, warbling tyres and whatever else, which is a product of their warped conception of masculinity ( https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/02/27/streetsblog-101-car-culture-is-a-toxic-masculinity-problem/ ).

Pollution is just one part of why cars are evil and have to be banned. It's an important part but by far not the only one.

Yeah, but ban pollution.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #386 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:28:11 pm »
 ;D

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #387 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:33:17 pm »
Ban pollution is good but my hatred of cars goes much further than just the pollution impacts.

I hate that fewer than 20% of people think they can safely cycle in their own neighbourhoods let alone to work or to school, or for fun ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28093374 ) because they fear motorists.

I hate that motoring sucks up billions and billions of pounds in public spending which should be spent on worthwhile enterprises like sustainable transportation.

I hate the sprawl and NIMBYism that cars foster.

I hate the ghastly attitude of sports cars driving hoons who maraud around the road network making a hideous noise, with their revving engines, warbling tyres and whatever else, which is a product of their warped conception of masculinity ( https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/02/27/streetsblog-101-car-culture-is-a-toxic-masculinity-problem/ ).

Pollution is just one part of why cars are evil and have to be banned. It's an important part but by far not the only one.

Yeah, but ban pollution.
You are missing that I think that's a good slogan and you should use it!
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Ban cars.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #388 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:35:31 pm »
As more and more people became mobile, buses got less and less economical to provide in the countryside, to the extent that country bus services are now in danger of extinction. The population movement that started to bring people out to the country has stalled as commutes have become more difficult and people realise that they lose their place on the property gravy-train by leaving expensive towns for the cheap countryside (and even in the Cotswolds it's cheap compared to London). Meantime, those of us who never left the countryside (in my case because of a family history of military service, not agriculture) are pretty much trapped here by property prices.

You are literally repeating my posts back at me. This happened because of the car. Sprawl is an invention of the motor industry and the governments that have funnelled untold billions into privileging driving over buses, trains, cycling etc. Which is why cars are an evil and pernicious force. http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Environment/E_Casestudy/E_casestudy9.htm

Buses are not at all 'uneconomical' to provide. What's "uneconomical" is the system that privileges the private motorist. The privileging of the driver and his car was a political choice. Imagine if the annual £9BN in fuel duty subsidies were funneled into bus services instead.

The reason "ban cars" is important is that it centres them as the problem. Because it is they that are the root of this ghastly situation.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #389 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:37:39 pm »
Cars are awesome. Looking forward to a technological solution to pollution and road safety. Its progress.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #390 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:41:56 pm »
Cars are awesome. Looking forward to a technological solution to pollution and road safety. Its progress.

Indeed. The Government's lack of policing and enforcement of existing laws has a lot to answer for, along with a weak judiciary that hand out very mild sentences.

Cars kill people through pollution and electric vehicles can help resolve that. Drivers kill the rest.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #391 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:44:24 pm »
The weak judiciary is a product of the car-system. You'll note that the judgements that produce the slap-on-wrist sentences are made because (ostensibly) 'life is impossible without driving'. Of the however-many temporary withdrawal of licences there are a year, fewer than five are permanent.

This guy https://road.cc/content/news/27511-breaking-seven-years-jail-and-lifetime-ban-lorry-driver-who-killed-catriona-patel only lost his licence after 20 prior disqualifications and after killing someone.

The car is slap bang in the centre of the evil and the harm. So nothing would have as good an effect as banning cars.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #392 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:46:44 pm »
OK, so:-

"ban weak slap on the wrist sentencing for driving offences"
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #393 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:48:48 pm »
Can you imagine what it would look like if rural areas had an on-demand public transport system such as the one entitled Londoners have, and expect.

I'll never forget, in the 70s, a friend of mine from London coming to my village and being stunned that there weren't 5 buses an hour into the town (11 miles away). There was one a day. Despite what our resident forum mouthpart would have you believe there had never been frequent bus services killed off by car ownership.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #394 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:48:53 pm »
I think that expensive housing is at the root of all this car centric stuff. I have the solution (that would incidentally cut 25% of all CO2 emissions as well).  Ban Houses! :)

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #395 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:50:29 pm »
That wouldn't bring Catriona back from the dead. My occupation is to stop the drivers killing people in the first place and the only way to do that is to ban the cars.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #396 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:51:48 pm »
That wouldn't bring Catriona back from the dead. My occupation is to stop the drivers killing people in the first place and the only way to do that is to ban the cars.

You are doing a really shit job  of it.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #397 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:52:43 pm »
Ban stairs!

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #398 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:53:12 pm »
That wouldn't bring Catriona back from the dead. My occupation is to stop the drivers killing people in the first place and the only way to do that is to ban the cars.

Your occupation? What is that, then? Show us what you are doing to make your dream a reality.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #399 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:54:10 pm »
Not interested in doxxing myself on an internet forum thanks. Nor is that actually material to the merit of the argument - that cars must be banned.

You are the man in the well.

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Ban cars.