Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 237456 times)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #600 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:46:45 pm »
Just got back from a quick ride up to Leigh and back. Got the following on the way:


First, this is new, yours Nutty?

...



Yup, that looks like mine.  You can see where I swung over to the right to avoid the girl.


Re the coach, if you look at the designs for the path it has lowered kerbs at each of the bus stops, I presumed it was to allow the buses to stop without causing obstruction to the traffic.   I did email the following question to the project on the 18th April but haven't had a reply yet, despite chasing for it.

Quote
I note that there are three bus stops shown with 25m of 20mm kerb.  I
recall from last time I dared take a bike to the area that to the east
of the Casino was a short section of single yellow line instead of a
double yellow line.

These two combined lead me to further questions.
      * How many buses are expected to use the stops?
      * What traffic orders are proposed for the stops?
      * How is it proposed to stop non scheduled buses from stopping,
        private buses with day trippers, etc?   (They will stop for
        longer than a scheduled service.)
      *
      * Will the buses be stopping on the cycle track?  (Implied by the
        dropped kerb)
      * If so, how are cyclists expected to pass a stationary bus?
      *
      * Will the buses be stopping on the carriageway?
      * If so how will traffic pass? (In particular the private 56 seat
        coaches who may spend a long time loading or unloading on the
        narrowed carriageway).

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #601 on: 07 August, 2010, 03:55:15 pm »
The coach wasn't dropping off or picking up, it was parked there. There's about fifteen minutes between the two photos.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #602 on: 07 August, 2010, 04:05:58 pm »
The coach wasn't dropping off or picking up, it was parked there. There's about fifteen minutes between the two photos.

Contact the council and ask them the questions I asked them in April.   How are cyclists expected to travel east on this facility?  Cross the road, cycle 25 metres, cross the road again, lift the bike up the kerb onto the track and carry on?

I hadn't realised when down there but looking at the first photo of the coach, is that the yellow bus stop marking still in the carriageway?    The coach driver could so easily have stopped at the bus stop and inside those yellow marks... completely blocking the cycle path!

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #603 on: 07 August, 2010, 05:23:17 pm »
Ok, this is what I'm sending CCd to the CTC, Cycling England, and Cllr Assenheim (cllr for health and safety)::


Dear Councillor Flewitt,

Having found Southend's Western Esplanade cycle lane completely blocked this afternoon (Sat 07/08/10) by a coach parked in the cycle track, and having my own safety severely compromised by this dangerous parking, I wonder if you might answer a few questions for me regarding the bus stops along the Western esplanade cycle track:

 
How is it proposed to stop non scheduled buses from stopping?
Will buses/coaches be stopping on the cycle track regularly?
If so, how are cyclists expected to pass a stationary bus or coach?
Will buses/coaches be stopping on the carriageway?
If so how will traffic pass?

As you can see in the attached photographs the cycle track was completely blocked for some time (there was at least fifteen minutes between the two photographs being taken). How are cyclists traveling east supposed to pass such a dangerous obstruction? They cannot ride in the road because they are on the wrong side of the road. they cannot ride on the pavement because riding on the pavement is illegal (and even if they wanted to there is no pavement at this point on the seafront).



I would also ask what the council proposes to do about all the waste bins, concrete framed benches, concrete plant pots, signs etc. along the length of the Western Esplanade cycle track which are ALL extremely close to the cycle track, much closer in fact than the recommended minimum distance of one metre, in some cases less than 20cm. This is a serious hazard to cyclists, should they have to swerve or fall to avoid car doors opening into the cycle track, children running into the cycle track, pedestrians in the cycle track motorcycles using the cycle track etc. (ALL of which I have encountered in recent weeks), colliding with any of these obstacles could cause serious injury.

Also what does the council propose to prevent cars, vans, coaches, motorcycles etc. from entering the cycle track? The double yellow lines, unbroken white line, and two inch kerb have completely failed to do this. Also the council said signage would keep the cycle track clear of pedestrians, this also is a total failure.

Please see the videos linked which demonstrate just a few of the dangers cyclists are being confronted with on a daily basis along the Western Esplanade cycle track:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yL6XRJL8gSs&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/yL6XRJL8gSs&rel=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nF1EpgPC0cY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/nF1EpgPC0cY&rel=1</a>


I await your earliest response,

Sincerely,

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #604 on: 07 August, 2010, 05:31:59 pm »
having my own safety severely compromised by this dangerous parking,


Good letter, but is this bit really true?  I think it's OTT and will lose effectiveness for you.  That coach parking there is annoying, certainly, but I'm not sure how it would affect my safety at all riding past there.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #605 on: 07 August, 2010, 05:34:29 pm »
but I'm not sure how it would affect my safety at all riding past there.
You'd have to filter on the left!  :P

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #606 on: 07 August, 2010, 05:47:00 pm »
What, like this guy?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/12fMTAQyXTI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/12fMTAQyXTI&rel=1</a>

;)
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #607 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:25:04 pm »
Good letter Clandy.  Possible re-wording on Wendy's point though?

having my own safety severely compromised by this dangerous parking,


Good letter, but is this bit really true?  I think it's OTT and will lose effectiveness for you.  That coach parking there is annoying, certainly, but I'm not sure how it would affect my safety at all riding past there.

His safety is compromised.  As above I rode in the road last night and had abuse from two drivers, fortunately only verbal (although I have had reports of physical abuse to a road cyclist along there recently).

It is impossible to cycle on the path thanks to the obstruction.

If he cycles on the road then he's at risk of abuse, plus if heading east would have to cross the road - which we're told is a dangerous activity.


How to word this in a manner that would be understood though?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #608 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:34:23 pm »
I see the cycle lane is mentioned on longpier this month ->  YOUR VIEW: Should our seafronts be kept ‘bike free’? : Longpier – News, Sport and Features from Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff, Rochford, Leigh and more

Quote
Colette Kemp from Cycle Southend – the scheme set up to get more people riding on their bikes in the borough – told longpier.com:

......

“However the new cycle lanes we have installed are great.  They are made to European standards and give cyclists a safe way to enjoy the route.  Of course riders must be observant, as they would be on the road”.

I wonder what European standards these are?   As at the beginning of this thread the new lanes completely ignore many parts of LTN 2/08, which is the UK guideline which all cycle facilities should adhere to.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #609 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:57:56 pm »
I see the cycle lane is mentioned on longpier this month ->  YOUR VIEW: Should our seafronts be kept ‘bike free’? : Longpier – News, Sport and Features from Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff, Rochford, Leigh and more

Quote
Colette Kemp from Cycle Southend – the scheme set up to get more people riding on their bikes in the borough – told longpier.com:

......

“However the new cycle lanes we have installed are great.  They are made to European standards and give cyclists a safe way to enjoy the route.  Of course riders must be observant, as they would be on the road”.

I wonder what European standards these are?   As at the beginning of this thread the new lanes completely ignore many parts of LTN 2/08, which is the UK guideline which all cycle facilities should adhere to.

I have commented, but don't know if it will pass moderation.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #610 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:19:45 pm »
Well blow me down! Already had a reply from Cllr Flewitt acknowledging receipt of the email and saying he will be looking into the issues raised and will be getting in touch once he has done so.

That's a bit more on the ball than his predecessor.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
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Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #611 on: 07 August, 2010, 09:13:23 pm »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yL6XRJL8gSs&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/yL6XRJL8gSs&rel=1</a>

You forgot the lamppost/pedestrian crossing light in the middle of your lane on the cycle lane, at 1:05.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #612 on: 07 August, 2010, 09:14:57 pm »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yL6XRJL8gSs&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/yL6XRJL8gSs&rel=1</a>

You forgot the lamppost/pedestrian crossing light in the middle of your lane on the cycle lane, at 1:05.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/SAx3Z6Pwtpg&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/SAx3Z6Pwtpg&rel=1</a>
 ;)

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #613 on: 08 August, 2010, 09:11:21 am »
I see the cycle lane is mentioned on longpier this month ->  YOUR VIEW: Should our seafronts be kept ‘bike free’? : Longpier – News, Sport and Features from Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff, Rochford, Leigh and more

Quote
Colette Kemp from Cycle Southend – the scheme set up to get more people riding on their bikes in the borough – told longpier.com:

......

“However the new cycle lanes we have installed are great.  They are made to European standards and give cyclists a safe way to enjoy the route.  Of course riders must be observant, as they would be on the road”.

I wonder what European standards these are?   As at the beginning of this thread the new lanes completely ignore many parts of LTN 2/08, which is the UK guideline which all cycle facilities should adhere to.

Here's an interesting quote from the Longpier piece:

Colette Kemp, “We also have to enter negoitations with the train company, who own that stretch of footpath at the back of Chalkwell Station, so it will be a long process”

If the cinder track is indeed owned by C2C, then that makes it private property surely? In which case who is enforcing the 'No Cycling' rule along there?

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #614 on: 08 August, 2010, 09:15:56 am »
A good question. I'm a bit surprised, if the rail company owns the cinder path, that they don't put a toll in as exists on the Mawddach Estuary bridge. I suspect that the railway down't own the path, but the land immediately adjacent to it, of which, for most of the path's length, there is plenty to spare.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #615 on: 08 August, 2010, 11:44:09 am »
I suspect that the railway down't own the path, but the land immediately adjacent to it, of which, for most of the path's length, there is plenty to spare.
I have been told, at the cycle forum, that network rail (or whoever) do indeed own the cinder path, and the sea wall along that stretch which is why it has been "maintained" over the years purely by pouring tar onto it as it is the cheapest method. I suspect that there is also a public right of way and because of this it can be subject to byelaws.
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #616 on: 08 August, 2010, 12:21:21 pm »
The OS map does show this as a public footpath.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #617 on: 11 August, 2010, 02:24:14 pm »

Exactly that.  This is a prime place for primary.

It astounds me that anyone posting on a cycle forum can't see what is wrong with stupid driving like that.

Rule 163.  There's even a picture for those many drivers who can't read.

Clarion, you are forgetting the First Rule of the Motorist:

All cyclists MUST be overtaken.
What's the problem? Smiley deliberately omited

Ah yes, that rule!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5oBnl6xAxc8&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/5oBnl6xAxc8&rel=1</a>

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #618 on: 11 August, 2010, 02:34:27 pm »

Exactly that.  This is a prime place for primary.

It astounds me that anyone posting on a cycle forum can't see what is wrong with stupid driving like that.

Rule 163.  There's even a picture for those many drivers who can't read.

Clarion, you are forgetting the First Rule of the Motorist:

All cyclists MUST be overtaken.
What's the problem? Smiley deliberately omited

Ah yes, that rule!


      YouTube
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QED!   ;) ;D

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #619 on: 11 August, 2010, 11:15:23 pm »
I went for a little spin along the seafront this morning to see how things are going with the new path on Western Esplanade.

The line painting wagon was there and they were repainting the parallel parking bays between adventure island and three shells.

The line next to the hashing is now a double width solid white line rather than the original dashed white line.

Video on Youtube

Have the council changed the marking because they care about cyclists and want to make it clear to drivers that they should park in the bay and not on the hash markings?

Or could it be that the council has realised they probably couldn't enforce any tickets they issued for parking on the hash marks when there was only a dashed line?

Call me a cynic if you like but I suspect that the changes are led by a potential loss of revenue from parking fines rather than careing for cyclists.


Hhmm...    screenshot from the stage 3 safety Audit which I received today.

Quote


Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #620 on: 11 August, 2010, 11:21:11 pm »
Hhmm...    screenshot from the stage 3 safety Audit which I received today.
Isn't the audit supposed to be done "before" the path was laid so that the engineers could make it safe in the first place?  :facepalm:

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #621 on: 11 August, 2010, 11:28:43 pm »
Hhmm...    screenshot from the stage 3 safety Audit which I received today.
Isn't the audit supposed to be done "before" the path was laid so that the engineers could make it safe in the first place?  :facepalm:

no.

3 stages.

As I understand it.

Stage 1 - based on design and to correct design.
Stage 2 - based on design as being initially laid.
Stage 3a - based on completed construction of design (where we are)
Stage 3b - 1 year later, based on usage/accident stats/correspondence/etc


If any highways engineers are reading who would like to fine tune my understanding, please feel free.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #622 on: 11 August, 2010, 11:33:00 pm »
no.
OK.  :thumbsup:

Does it mention what has been slagged off about the path here and elsewhere?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #623 on: 12 August, 2010, 08:05:13 pm »
Does it mention what has been slagged off about the path here and elsewhere?
Yes, pretty much!
Will anything be done?  ::-)

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #624 on: 12 August, 2010, 08:08:53 pm »

Will anything be done?  ::-)

My money is on SBC pleading poverty. £25million for road projects around the town, sweet FA to make safe a crap cycle facility.