I'm not really bothered by what folks to do their own bodies, but I feel there's a limit somewhere. Tattoos and piercings? Fine, if that's your thing. Alien claw hand man (mentioned upthread)? Hell no. The trouble is, I don't know where I would draw the line (no pun intended); at what point does body modification move from self-expression to harmful?
There's a massive amount range in what in many cases may be body dysphoria. I remember a few years ago watching a documentary about a guy who felt that he shouldn't have legs, hated them, and wanted them to be removed. No doctor was willing to do it.
It's really interesting (read also anger inducing), when you look at the various permanent or near permanent things people do with their bodies, and the way the medical profession act to them.
- Woman wants to get her tubes tied? Doctor's usually won't do it, what if you change your minds, what if your husband wants kids
- Bloke wants to get vasectomy? Sure, come on in, sign this form, no need to ask your wife.
- Woman get's tattoo. "ew, men aren't going to like that, how's that going to look when you're old?"
- Man get's tattoo "cool ink bro!"
- Woman gets lip fillers or boob implants, or most other plastic surgery. EW SLUT!
- Man does it? no comments
- Trans person wants to live in a body that matches who they feel they are. Must live for 2 years in that role, and see a battery of shrinks, and put up with society asking each other (but not them), if they should be allowed to exist.
But there are also societal expectations on which people of various genders should do. We've all seen the report about the Aussie news presenter who wore the same suit for a year and noone noticed. Yet if one of his female cohosts wore the same outfit twice, there would be stories about it in the news. Youtuber Tom Scott only has one kind of tshirt, to the point the red tshirt thing has become a running gag in some of his videos. He did that cos it looks ok, and it avoids the need to decide what to wear. I know a woman in tech in the US who did something similar, with a number of identical pairs of leggings, and a number of identical tops. She gets quite a lot of comments about it. I'm not a great one for fashion, i tend to choose clothes based on being comfortable, I have 3 identical pairs of trousers (craghopper kiwi pro stretch), 4 skirts, and about a dozen tops. Despite not being in the office that much in the last year, it's enough that one of my colleagues noticed I have a small wardrobe. I also haven't worn make up since at least 2016. Why that date? Well I left it all in the UK when I moved. A gay friend has promised to go make up shopping with me when the rules permit it (he give's me fashion advice, I do DIY tasks for him, the classic lesbian and gay man relationship). I do have friend who do not feel dressed without makeup on tho. To the point that they will do make up to get on a zoom call, then sit there in their dressing gown. I mentioned this sort of thing in the super twat thread about a certain person being a camera nazi. There is an expectation from society for what is presentable for women in the work place, and in many cases make up, even at just a minimal level, is part of that. If you're at home, working on your own all day, to be told at short notice "Hey, let's just jump on zoom" is not as simple as it is for men. I make a point of not turning my camera on, and as such despite having online meetings most days, I often don't get dressed, working all day in just a towel (I need to get a dressing gown, my old one is in the same place as my make up).
Anyway, I'm waffling, people are shit, society puts way more pressure on women to appear in certain ways, and people are way too judgemental about it all. Unless you're being pressured to conform to something, who cares, relax, and let people be who they want to be.
J
Just want to point out a factual error here, I have 4 children because the doctor wouldn't give my husband a vasectomy when I wasn't sure I was ready for it.
It's also not true that men who have cosmetic surgery attract no comment. Of course they do. Factory workers ridicule a manager with pectoral implants just as much as an HR manager who comes back from holiday in Turkey with a DD.
I appreciate this doesn't back up your narrative though.
I think lip fillers are fugly, so are massive ear plugs, overdoing tattoos in visible places and orange face make up. As long as I continue to be free to not do it myself, carry on. I'm fairly ugly too, just through laziness about my appearance.
I also think it's not unreasonable to expect people to be wearing clothes and therefore camera ready when they're working. I always get dressed for work, partly because communication is more than words.