Flea shampoos: what's the difference between cats and dogs?

[Kathy]

The ferts pick up fleas every time we visit the inlaws. I'm pretty sure that they're badger fleas brought in by the otherwise flealess cat. The expensive spot-on stuff from the vet didn't seem to make a difference (although it has worked in the past), so I had to resort to flea shampoo.

When shampooing ferrets, all guidelines say to use something suitable for kittens, and I've usually found the gentle stuff (with marigold extract, AKA Pyrethrins) to work OK. Unfortunately, none of my local shops stock that (bathing cats is a bit of a niche market) so I picked up something suitable for dogs and used that. It worked amazingly well: most fleas died instantaneously, and within 6 hours the remaining ones had turned brown and runny and had exploded. I then read the small print which said (apart from the fact that I had used 20x the recommended concentration  ) "DO NOT USE ON KITTENS, PUPPIES, INFIRM OR NURSING ANIMALS!"

So, what do they put in dog shampoo that they don't and can't in cat shampoo, and how bad is it to use dog shampoo on a fert?

As it is, the menaces are now flea-free, happy and glossy of coat. 

[Adam]

"DO NOT USE ON KITTENS, PUPPIES, INFIRM OR NURSING ANIMALS!"

That's the important bit!  After all, it doesn't say "don't use on (adult) cats".  I'd avoid using it again for 6 months seeing as you've used such a large dose, just to be safe.

[Kathy]

Is dog shampoo systemic and cat shampoo not?

[Hello, I am Bruce]

Permethrin is toxic to cats, but used in some flea treatments.

Fleas are usually picked up as fresh hatchlings from the environment, not directly from other animals.  What flea control do the inlaws use?  If they treat their cat (collar, or Frontline spot treatment) then the cat will be flea-free but there could still be pupae in the house that the hatch when they encounter the ferrets (esp if the ferrets can get into spaces that the cat and people cannot reach).  

[nuttycyclist]

..It worked amazingly well: most fleas died instantaneously, and within 6 hours the remaining ones had turned brown and runny and had exploded.

 

I then read the small print which said (apart from the fact that I had used 20x the recommended concentration  ) "DO NOT USE ON KITTENS, PUPPIES, INFIRM OR NURSING ANIMALS!"

I see you have the same fettling skills with instructions as I do 

[Mrs Pingu]

And this from someone who used to work in a lab..... 
Is there no list of ingredients on the bottle?

[Kathy]

Is there no list of ingredients on the bottle?

Might be. It's hard to read these things when one is wiping soap out of ones eyes whilst trying to prevent a flea-ridden ferret from seeking refuge in a pile of clean towels. As it is, none of the bottles ever say anything about ferrets anyway, so there's usually no point me reading them.

[tonycollinet]

Take care - many dog treatments are lethal to cats (including adult cats) due to the dosage of Permethrin.

I have no idea if this translates to ferrets though. I would ask a vet.

[Kathy]

Take care - many dog treatments are lethal to cats (including adult cats) due to the dosage of Permethrin.

I have no idea if this translates to ferrets though. I would ask a vet.

Vets don't really know either. Ferrets are not traditionally taken to vets. Instead, they are taken around the back of the shed and treated to a half-brick if they look poorly (this was the offer I had from a gardener/gamekeeper when I was trying to take a rat-poison-full Nelson to the vet for the antidote).

Very few medicines are tested or licensed for use in ferrets.

[rae]

Ferret Husbandry, Medicine and Surgery - Google Book Search

[Notsototalnewbie]

Many vets should know, ferret popularity has shot up in recent years so you should be able to find one that knows their stuff. That's odd that the spot-on stuff didn't work; that's usually much better than shampoos etc. A new spot-on treatment has only recently come out so it may be worth asking your vet about that.

Also you might like to think about buying one of those evil-smelling sprays to treat your whole house wherever the ferts have been; when our dog got fleas we had to do this in conjunction with the spot-on stuff to really eradicate them.

[Kathy]

Well, I thought we'd got all the fleas. The ferrets went straight from the fert-sitters into decontamination, as did all their stuff (all bedding was boil-washed and all toys disinfected).

Unfortunately, I saw a flea on Fatso last night, so it looks like at least one slipped through the net.

Bugger.

[Notsototalnewbie]

Hmm. Were the toys disinfected with an actual flea-killing product? The little sods can survive a lot.

If your vet doesn't seem that fert-friendly I'd try another one; until recently I kept fancy rats and the difference between vets when it comes to these 'small furries' as they are known in the trade is quite amazing - took a couple of attempts until I found one that was actually properly interested and knew what they were talking about.

[Kathy]

Hmm. Were the toys disinfected with an actual flea-killing product? The little sods can survive a lot.

Yup - I shampooed them with flea shampoo.

If your vet doesn't seem that fert-friendly I'd try another one; until recently I kept fancy rats and the difference between vets when it comes to these 'small furries' as they are known in the trade is quite amazing - took a couple of attempts until I found one that was actually properly interested and knew what they were talking about.

Actually, my vet is pretty good at ferts. Unfortunately, she trained in America, where fert health problems are quite different to over here (most fert problems in America are due to factory-farming of animals, inbreeding (cancer is very common over there, but virtually unknown here), leaving their mother too soon, removal of the scent glands, and eating sugar. Problems over here involve picking fights with other animals, picking fights with inanimate objects and losing fights with gravity). The main problem is that there simply aren't many medicines registered for use on ferrets in the UK - most pharmaceutical companies don't bother to apply for a license, as hardly anyone gives ferrets drugs. So you normally have to use kitten-stuff, which is very weak.

[Mrs Pingu]

1 question - how do you know the cat at your in-laws is flea-less? (not trying to cause offence here, just asking).
Some cats can quite happily carry fleas around without getting all scratchy.
If these fleas are the same as cat fleas not only should the bedding be washed but really all soft furnishings and carpets and basically everywhere in the house should be treated with a special spray for the house as cat fleas will lie in wait in carpets waiting for a victim to walk past.

[Kathy]

1 question - how do you know the cat at your in-laws is flea-less? (not trying to cause offence here, just asking).

I have thoroughly examined said cat many times, and he never has any visible fleas or flea dirt on his coat. There are also never any fleas in the house unless we introduce the ferrets, whereupon fleas can sometimes be seen on the carpet after a few days.

The cat does however have a known habit of sticking his head in badger holes and wandering home. We're pretty convinced they are mustellid fleas.

[Notsototalnewbie]

That's good that you've found a nice fert-friendly vet. It's rubbish when you encounter one who looks at you with a 'why must you have a child's pet' kind of attitude...!

I'm not sure it necessarily has to be weak kitten stuff though. That might be why it's not working. I know hardly any drugs are licensed for use in ferrets, but if a situation arises where there is no licensed drug is available for that species, vets are usually allowed to use a drug licensed for another species provided they feel the justification is there (and they'd  make the owner aware and get their consent etc). I know there are several spot-on products that might work if another hasn't, so it might be worth going back to see if your vet suggests another (I know it's horribly expensive  ) and keeping them topped up with said drops whenever you go to the inlaws.