Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Andy W on 20 June, 2020, 07:33:51 pm
-
Hi all, I'm in the market for a decent cycle GPS. Looking at Satmap active 20 but seems to be so many different bundles I'm confused. All other makes considered. I don't need text alarms strava segments. I'll be using it for navigation only. I'm not good with high tech so simplicity a must. Please help. Thanks
Andy
-
I’ve not used it, but Garmin Edge Tour would appear to fit the bill?
I’ve got an Edge 1000 that works well, but think the Tour is a bit less expensive.
-
The Edge Touring doesn't exist anymore. The current version is called the Edge Explore (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/07/garmin-edge-explore-review.html).
-
If you have a smartphone you already have one. If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps. Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone. You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer. No one will complain. And you get much much much better bang for your buck.
-
If you have a smartphone you already have one. If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps. Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone. You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer. No one will complain. And you get much much much better bang for your buck.
I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...
J
-
I think we need to determine what the OP means by 'navigation'. Drawing a map with a you are here arrow, calculating a route from your current location to a destination and telling you what to do at each junction, or following a pre-planned route for eg. an audax. Different devices are better at some of these than others.
-
The Garmin Edge Touring was the reason Garmin lost me for good. I’ve been a Wahooligan ever since.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
The Garmin Edge Touring was the reason Garmin lost me for good. I’ve been a Wahooligan ever since.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
^^ so it's a good thing it doesn't exist anymore. How about keeping this thread to current models?
-
The SatMap 20 runs Ordnance Survey maps. If you want simplicity, that's hard to beat.
It doesn't do routing. You can load a gpx track onto it which you can then follow. It's also possible (but quite tedious) to create a track on the machine (which you can then follow). When following a track there's no clever beeps or indicators letting you know there's a turn coming, you just have to make sure the dot on the map (you) follows the blue line.
-
I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...
I've been using a smartphone for navigating and other data, including cadence and heart rate, since 2013 when I gave up on my Bryton 50 (That includes one Audax season where I managed a Double Rtty - 2 x 200/300km x 12). They work. If its raining I just use a plastic bag over the phone. A battery pack with replaceable 16850 batteries gives me all the power I need if I'm riding longer than 100km. Your preferences may differ to mine.
-
Thanks for the replies.
I should have been clearer re navigation.
I just want something for following fox for Audax. I usually follow routsheets and get lost occasionally.
-
Yeah we got you the first time. Your two main players are Wahoo and Garmin.
A lot of people like Wahoo's ease of use when it comes to loading routes onto your device: you can draw or download a route on your laptop/phone and load it straight onto the device, which makes mid-ride route changes easy. The mapping isn't quite as good as Garmin though, and you'll either have to pay £300 for their latest and greatest model (the Elemnt Roam (https://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-computers/gps-elemnt-roam)) or buy an Elemnt Bolt (https://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-computers/gps-elemnt-bolt), which has a tiny screen.
The Garmin Edge 530 (https://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/computers-gps-watches/garmin-edge-530) is Garmin's latest midrange model, is basically the same as their flagship 830 (but lacks some of the training stuff you don't need) and is £225 on Amazon. Alternatively the Edge Explore (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DX231ST?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1) has had a lot of the extra training-based stuff taken off it, it's got a bigger screen and it's cheaper at about £180. It's touchscreen controlled though as opposed to the 530's buttons, and its battery life is shorter at about 12 hours to the 530's 20 hours.
Which of those you want, only you can say. I'd probably go for one of the Garmins if I were you, but which you prefer will probably come down to how good your eyesight is, whether you like touchscreens and how much battery life you want.
-
Thanks for the replies.
I should have been clearer re navigation.
I just want something for following fox for Audax. I usually follow routsheets and get lost occasionally.
The word 'just' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Most cycling or outdoor GPSes will allow you to overlay a line (usually a 'track', rarely a 'route' or a 'course') on the map for you to follow, and there are plenty of smartphone apps if you want to go down that route. If you want turn-by-turn instructions to a destination (or sequence of destinations), many of the same units will do that too. But turn-by-turn instructions following a pre-set route is surprisingly difficult to achieve, mainly due to a lack of imagination on the part of Garmin's software designers back in the early 2000s.
I'm saying this as expectation management. It's possible, but it involves a learning curve and varying degrees of fucking around and pre-ride homework. Success is measured in how often it sends you off route for no obvious reason.
More generally, the units that are good at daylight visibility and battery life tend to be bad at nice big screens and scrolling/zooming the map in a responsive manner. (If you're set on using OS maps, that sort of thing becomes more important.) I'll also note that OS maps, while undeniably lovely, aren't actually that good for making sense of complicated road junctions.
Personally, I use an eTrex on the bike for telling me what to do on a pre-planned ride (eg. audax) and recording where I've been, and an OS mapping app on a smartphone/tablet for making it up as I go along when touring or mountain biking.
-
...it involves a learning curve and varying degrees of fucking around and pre-ride homework...
I think this is the thing about GPS devices that people don't get.
-
Gulp, looks like a lot of pre ride work on pc then. My Achilles heel.
-
Not necessarily. If you're loading a route that an organiser has created for an audax, it's quite simple for modern Wahoos, and only a bit more involved for older Garmins - I haven't used the newer Garmins so can't speak for them, but I believe they're catching up with Wahoo. For plotting routes it's easy as well as long as you only want the line on a map functionality.
On my Wahoo, if I'm suddenly taken with the desire to go from place X to place Y, I do this:
1) I've already got free/cheap accounts with RideWithGPS and Komoot, and got one with the Wahoo app when I bought the device. All these apps are logged into each other.
2) I whip out my phone and draw a route on the app of my choice (if it's a phone that'll be Komoot, or if it's at home it'll be RWGPS).
3) I open my Wahoo app where that route has automagically appeared. I select to do the route and it appears on my device, complete with turn by turn instructions.
I don't know about the latest Garmin workflow but as I said, I don't think they're far behind. If I were buying now I'd probably get an Edge 530 as the way they handle you if you go off route is a bit better than Wahoo. The way I could do everything on a phone with Wahoo and didn't need a PC at alll was a real boon when I was doing a long tour though.
-
...If you're loading a route that an organiser has created for an audax,...
And this is one of the areas where things can go to shit. Checking other people's routes is one of those learning curve activities :thumbsup:
-
If you have a smartphone you already have one. If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps. Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone. You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer. No one will complain. And you get much much much better bang for your buck.
I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...
J
Many of Samsungs smartphones from ~2017 are IP68 rated. Pairing one of these with Oruxmaps gives you the option to connect with most ANT+ and BT sensors and enjoy the benefit of a highly legible display in all environments with minimal power consumption. But, you do have to rtfm invest some time in learning how to get the best out of Oruxmaps.
-
Many of Samsungs smartphones from ~2017 are IP68 rated. Pairing one of these with Oruxmaps gives you the option to connect with most ANT+ and BT sensors and enjoy the benefit of a highly legible display in all environments with minimal power consumption. But, you do have to rtfm invest some time in learning how to get the best out of Oruxmaps.
Do they maintain the same IP68 rating with a usb cable plugged in to charge them?
J
-
Many of Samsungs smartphones from ~2017 are IP68 rated. Pairing one of these with Oruxmaps gives you the option to connect with most ANT+ and BT sensors and enjoy the benefit of a highly legible display in all environments with minimal power consumption. But, you do have to rtfm invest some time in learning how to get the best out of Oruxmaps.
Do they maintain the same IP68 rating with a usb cable plugged in to charge them?
J
Of course the charging cable would need to have a similar rating, IP-68 mil-spec charging cables do exist but given the potential of a duty cycle of around 20 hours they shouldn't be needed.
-
Of course the charging cable would need to have a similar rating, IP-68 mil-spec charging cables do exist but given the potential of a duty cycle of around 20 hours they shouldn't be needed.
A Samsung is waterproof and has 20 hours of battery life in full sun (so extra brightness of the screen) ? Tell me more...
J
-
Of course the charging cable would need to have a similar rating, IP-68 mil-spec charging cables do exist but given the potential of a duty cycle of around 20 hours they shouldn't be needed.
A Samsung is waterproof and has 20 hours of battery life in full sun (so extra brightness of the screen) ? Tell me more...
J
Using Oruxmaps in "night mode" in conjuction with an OLED display smartphone dramatically reduces battery consumption (thanks to Kim otp). This provides a display much akin to the Whahoo Elemnt with the the map displayed in greyscale but in a much higher resolution and with the benefit of a bright multi-colour track defining the route and its gradients. It's simple enough to configure a button on the Oruxmaps display to switch between night and day mode as needs dictate. With the screen turned up to full brightness I've achieved 20 hours of constant navigation and high resolution track recording on a Samsung A3 set to flight mode with no other apps running except "GPS Status". As an added bonus the A3s relatively small capacity battery charges very quickly when needed.
-
Do they maintain the same IP68 rating with a usb cable plugged in to charge them?
All iPhones from the 7 onwards are waterproof (IP67 IIRC). My OLED 11 Pro gets 13 hours of battery life without any power saving measures beyond "dark mode" (i.e. white-on-black).
The Lightning port is waterproof (no cover) and if that gets too wet to use (which it can detect) it can charge via Qi. However due to the long battery life and magic of fast charging, I now charge opportunistically rather than continuously.
I can't think of any sensors that don't have a Bluetooth version.
None of this is of interest to the OP.
-
The IP rating of a phone for cycling use is a bit of a red herring. My experience is that a plastic bag does the job perfectly well, including charging if needed.
-
If you do decide to use a smartphone should you have one, Quadlock do a superb range of mounts and cases including a cover to further prevent water ingress. I use such a case with my Samsing Galaxy S9 phone attached to an armband mount when running. mllePB has a stem mount on her bike for her phone though I don't think that she has ever used it. I may be wrong.
-
The IP rating of a phone for cycling use is a bit of a red herring. My experience is that a plastic bag does the job perfectly well, including charging if needed.
I tried that once in the rain, and the screen was completely unreadable. (Moto G6 Plus)
J
-
If you have a smartphone you already have one. If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps. Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone. You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer. No one will complain. And you get much much much better bang for your buck.
I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...
J
Good questions: sensors is a non-issue as most phones do bluetooth and some do Ant+. Also many are waterproof. Sun is more of an issue: phones can be made readable at high brightness, but battery life comes down.
-
Right now in Hertfordshire it's bright and sunny. I can barely see my phone screen even stood in the shade, so trying to navigate on an Audax or other would be challenging. I expect a bike GPS may be designed to be a bit better in sunny conditions. Also, can third party gpx routes be loaded onto a smartphone like a cycle GPS? I did say iwasnt very technical
-
I tried that once in the rain, and the screen was completely unreadable. (Moto G6 Plus)
. The main thing is to ensure that the plastic bag is taut across the screen and that you can, if needed, disable touch input on the screen. Unfortunately plastic bags are quite reflective so you may need to stop and shade the phone to be able to check the map if the phone is angled inappropriately.
Well, I never claimed it was a good experience :-D . My experience of using smart phones to navigate Audax have convinced me of a number of things.
1. Fit a matt/non reflective screen saver to your phone. It reduces the issues with bight sunlight/reflections quite well.
2. A decent holder is required. I've now settled on this type
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminum-Universal-Mobile-Phone-Holder-for-Mountain-Bike-Motorbike-Bicycle-Mount/383517455527?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=651910065770&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminum-Universal-Mobile-Phone-Holder-for-Mountain-Bike-Motorbike-Bicycle-Mount/383517455527?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=651910065770&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
which is very secure for the phone, allows relatively quick removal of the phone, allows easy installation of a Mk1 plastic bag and more importantly, doesn't interfere with charging ports.
3. A battery pack which allows replaceable batteries (typically 16850 lithium batteries). I use this type
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07N886MCB?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07N886MCB?tag=duc08-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1)
which also allows me to power one of my night riding lights (the second uses AA batteries). The quality can be quite variable so you might need to try a couple before you find one which works well for you. The battery pack sits in a Top Tube Topeak Triathlon bag.
All in all, once you have worked out the various wrinkles, I've found that navigating and bike stats by smart phone is a much superior experience to my previous bike specific gps units (Garmin 305 (wore out), 605 (stolen) and Bryton 50 (gave up in frustration)).
-
Right now in Hertfordshire it's bright and sunny. I can barely see my phone screen even stood in the shade, so trying to navigate on an Audax or other would be challenging. I expect a bike GPS may be designed to be a bit better in sunny conditions. Also, can third party gpx routes be loaded onto a smartphone like a cycle GPS? I did say iwasnt very technical
Yes they can.
If you want a one stop shop, you're probably beat sticking with one of the purpose-designed solutions though. Some people here can't resist nerding out over how to bodge something together, but that wasn't the question you asked so it's best to ignore them.
-
Right now in Hertfordshire it's bright and sunny. I can barely see my phone screen even stood in the shade, so trying to navigate on an Audax or other would be challenging. I expect a bike GPS may be designed to be a bit better in sunny conditions. Also, can third party gpx routes be loaded onto a smartphone like a cycle GPS? I did say iwasnt very technical
GPS screens are better in bright sun - no denying that - but phone screens are readable if you whack the brightness right up.
It's no harder to get a GPS track on a phone than it is on a navigation device.
However, if you want the simplest option, Wahoo is probably the thing to go for - as long as you are happy with not having north at the top when you are following a route. That was a showstopper for me, but many people are ok with it.
-
,, A mine of information, and collectively you've really helped me. I'm the complete opposite of a nerd. On this forum there are clearly some very capable people re tech. I'll take Karla advice and get a dedicated unit. I'm "reviewed out". Looks as though Garmin 530 offers a lot for£230.its not even the money. It's the user friendliness. I can't help but think if phones were the solution, Garmin, Lezyne, Wahoo et Al. would be out of business. My son uses his phone to navigate from London to North Herts and its all seamless to him. I bought a Garmin Touring in 2013, cycled to London via River Lea towpath. On way back I went more direct route through Barnet and used compass just headed approximately north, not that I was lost. At risk of repeating myself, all the performance data I don't need. I'm really hoping to do LEL next year and didn't want to rely on others. I have followed similar thread on yacf re phones and navigation and was baffled.
Many thanks, hopefully I'll catch up on the road.
-
However, if you want the simplest option, Wahoo is probably the thing to go for - as long as you are happy with not having north at the top when you are following a route. That was a showstopper for me, but many people are ok with it.
A comment rather than a piece of advice, I used to have my GPS north-up but found after a while that it was easier to follow, for me, in forwards-up orientation. Then the shape of the line on the screen was the same as the shape of the road ahead of me and I no longer had to perform rotations in my mind, remembering what direction I was heading in. Though that might have been easier if the North arrow on the screen was somewhat more obvious.
-
I tried that once in the rain, and the screen was completely unreadable. (Moto G6 Plus)
. The main thing is to ensure that the plastic bag is taut across the screen and that you can, if needed, disable touch input on the screen. Unfortunately plastic bags are quite reflective so you may need to stop and shade the phone to be able to check the map if the phone is angled inappropriately.
That makes it a total and complete non-starter. I've never needed to do such things on my Wahoo, even in the bright midday sun.
The plug and play simplicity of it just cannot be beaten.
J
-
I have to say that I am very very impressed with the clarity of the display on Mrs h's new Wahoo Roam, in bright bright sunshine and in the shade of the trees (haven't given it a night outing as yet). And with the simplicity of setting it up and loading a track onto it.
-
I hanker after something with the readability of e ink in bright sunshine. Sadly nothing ready made out there that I could find. You can get e ink shelf edge labels (About £20) in various sizes that can be updated by Bluetooth. But then you’d need a custom app on a phone to send it turn instructions based on its GPS.
-
The Wahoo Elemnt has an e-ink display.
-
The Wahoo Elemnt has an e-ink display.
Oh does it?
-
The Wahoo Elemnt has an e-ink display.
Does it? Really? I thought it was just a standard LCD...
It doesn't perform even close to a how I'm used to e-ink performing. Does match what I expect from LCD tho...
J
-
. I can't help but think if phones were the solution, Garmin, Lezyne, Wahoo et Al. would be out of business.
Like Polaroid, Kodak, etc?
What saves them, so far, is that it's a fairly small market: compared to a camera, not that many people want bike navigation. But I wouldn't bet on them having a long term future.
Hammerhead, a new competitor, is an android device. If it is successful, the proprietary systems of garmin etc might look increasingly clunky and not able to match the pace of innovation of phones.
-
The Wahoo Elemnt has an e-ink display.
Does it? Really? I thought it was just a standard LCD...
It doesn't perform even close to a how I'm used to e-ink performing. Does match what I expect from LCD tho...
J
Ah there’s that thought dashed. If it truly was eink that’d be a reason to change.
-
Ah there’s that thought dashed. If it truly was eink that’d be a reason to change.
Why? E-ink would mean blanking the whole screen each time it refreshes. That's gonna really annoy...
J
-
However, if you want the simplest option, Wahoo is probably the thing to go for - as long as you are happy with not having north at the top when you are following a route. That was a showstopper for me, but many people are ok with it.
A comment rather than a piece of advice, I used to have my GPS north-up but found after a while that it was easier to follow, for me, in forwards-up orientation. Then the shape of the line on the screen was the same as the shape of the road ahead of me and I no longer had to perform rotations in my mind, remembering what direction I was heading in. Though that might have been easier if the North arrow on the screen was somewhat more obvious.
That's my point; lots of people are fine with direction of travel at the top, like a car satnav. It makes it easier to turn the right way, esp when heading south, at the cost of having a less clear view of where you are and which direction you are heading in.
I know two people who, on ultracycling events, have gone the wrong direction after a stop, back the way they came, for several hours. I don't know how they have their systems set up but can't imagine that type of major error could occur with North at the top!
-
Ah there’s that thought dashed. If it truly was eink that’d be a reason to change.
Why? E-ink would mean blanking the whole screen each time it refreshes. That's gonna really annoy...
J
You haven’t been keeping up with e ink development. Partial refresh can be done now. There are eink monitors now that can do HD video at 40 FPS. No whole screen blanking necessary.
-
edge 130 (and now 130 plus) have super clear and readable screen, shame that the unit has major shortcomings, therefore can't recommend it (i've learned to live with it..).
-
edge 130 (and now 130 plus) have super clear and readable screen, shame that the unit has major shortcomings, therefore can't recommend it (i've learned to live with it..).
I know it’s an aside, but what are the shortcomings?
-
edge 130 (and now 130 plus) have super clear and readable screen, shame that the unit has major shortcomings, therefore can't recommend it (i've learned to live with it..).
I know it’s an aside, but what are the shortcomings?
there are a lot (i'm on a third replacement unit btw) if i was being picky, but the main ones are:
* tiny tiny battery, so the unit may last as little as one hour - with the healthy battery - wtf.. in typical use it lasts 6-8hrs
* downsampling of courses (longer than 100km courses can be tricky to follow)
* courses that go over itself need to be divided into several, as turn-by-turn doesn't always work
* small internal storage (10-12 courses)
* unreliable altimeter - you must know the altitude you are at and reset it before each ride otherwise the readings will be wildly inaccurate
* slow bluetooth sync with the phone
* ...
as said before i've learned the workarounds and it serves my requirement to have the smallest computer between my arms on tribars, i wouldn't mind it being even smaller, but taller to allow for a larger battery.
-
The other thing to consider is after sales service or support:
Garmin suck.
Wahoo are undeniably one of the best companies out there.
IMHO and experience.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
However, if you want the simplest option, Wahoo is probably the thing to go for - as long as you are happy with not having north at the top when you are following a route. That was a showstopper for me, but many people are ok with it.
A comment rather than a piece of advice, I used to have my GPS north-up but found after a while that it was easier to follow, for me, in forwards-up orientation. Then the shape of the line on the screen was the same as the shape of the road ahead of me and I no longer had to perform rotations in my mind, remembering what direction I was heading in. Though that might have been easier if the North arrow on the screen was somewhat more obvious.
That's my point; lots of people are fine with direction of travel at the top, like a car satnav. It makes it easier to turn the right way, esp when heading south, at the cost of having a less clear view of where you are and which direction you are heading in.
I know two people who, on ultracycling events, have gone the wrong direction after a stop, back the way they came, for several hours. I don't know how they have their systems set up but can't imagine that type of major error could occur with North at the top!
It's the same point but opposite! I would be far more likely to make that mistake with north up – unless I was heading more or less north at the time, in which it makes no difference, obviously. I ought to notice fairly soon, as my pointer would no longer be on the pink line, but still it can be annoying to have to turn round. More importantly though, 1) different orientations are easier for different people, 2) this is all an aside to the OP.
-
The Wahoo Elemnt has an e-ink display.
Does it? Really?
Doesn’t it? Or something close to it? Perhaps you are right. Anyway, I find it to be good in bright sunlight.
-
In bright sunlight I am able to peer across at Mrs h's handlebars when we're riding alongside each other and I can see the display on her Wahoo Roam clearly.
-
I know two people who, on ultracycling events, have gone the wrong direction after a stop, back the way they came, for several hours. I don't know how they have their systems set up but can't imagine that type of major error could occur with North at the top!
That's a UI design issue though. My app draws a much thicker line in the direction you're meant to be going* and a track of where you've been**. Solving it with north as up seems brute force, but maybe it works for you.
Version 1.0 of my app was north up only and I could never get my head around junctions when travelling south.
* on iOS, never made it work on Android
** Well it would if I ever released the new version.
-
That's my point; lots of people are fine with direction of travel at the top, like a car satnav. It makes it easier to turn the right way, esp when heading south, at the cost of having a less clear view of where you are and which direction you are heading in.
I know two people who, on ultracycling events, have gone the wrong direction after a stop, back the way they came, for several hours. I don't know how they have their systems set up but can't imagine that type of major error could occur with North at the top!
I have mine set to forward up. If I was to turn the wrong way out of a stop, it would beep like buggery. I wonder what devices they had...
J
-
I use forward-up on my eTrex, as it makes better use of the available portrait screen space (in general when cycling I'm more interested in what's approximately in front of me). But north up is the only sensible way to use an Ordnance Survey map[1], so that's how I have Viewranger configured on my Androids.
IIRC the Garmin is set to switch to north-up below some zoom level that you almost never[2] use. That makes sense.
[1] Which are stored as bitmaps (images) rather than vectors (mathematical shapes), so the text and symbols can't be automagically rendered the right way up at all times.
[2] Given the lack of pixels, once you're at the 10km zoom level or whatever, about the only useful thing you're going to be doing is eyeballing the shape of a track/route to make sure it's the one you're thinking of.
-
I guess in an ultracycling event you might be adapting your route on the go in response to events (weather, roadworks, rivals' positions, news of the best pizza, minor wars, closed borders, epidemics,...) so wouldn't notice that you were off course, cos you're always/never off-course, you're just heading in the wrong/right direction. In which case a north-up orientation shows that you're still heading generally east, or whichever direction.
A rather different situation from audax though.
-
I have my etrex map page in automotive display mode, so closer to how a car sat nav display looks.
-
I have my etrex map page in automotive display mode, so closer to how a car sat nav display looks.
Whereas I tend to set car satnavs to a 2D map view :)
-
...it involves a learning curve and varying degrees of fucking around and pre-ride homework...
I think this is the thing about GPS devices that people don't get.
The above sums these devices up perfectly
Whatvever brand/model you end up buying it will take some effort to learn its querks before being able to get the most out of it.
I can't offer any insight on the relevent question of which unit would be best though as I'm still using rather obsolete Garmin Edge 705. I do sometimes think about updating to something more up to date but so long as it keeps on working I'll probably stick with it.
-
I guess in an ultracycling event you might be adapting your route on the go in response to events (weather, roadworks, rivals' positions, news of the best pizza, minor wars, closed borders, epidemics,...) so wouldn't notice that you were off course, cos you're always/never off-course, you're just heading in the wrong/right direction. In which case a north-up orientation shows that you're still heading generally east, or whichever direction.
A rather different situation from audax though.
No, not that it's relevant to the op but both were defined routes (Trans-Am and indypac)
-
I used to be a Garmin fan... but I'm afraid I'm now a Wahooligan when it comes to the bike. The ease of use is the winner for me. Garmin is now relegated to when I need OS maps for walking or geocaching.
-
Has anyone upgraded from a Wahoo Bolt to a Roam. Was it really worth it ? I love my Bolt after being let down by a number of Garmins
-
Has anyone upgraded from a Wahoo Bolt to a Roam. Was it really worth it ? I love my Bolt after being let down by a number of Garmins
I'm very tempted to.
-
This thread has already helped me, but:
Apart from battery type and case shape, is there a big difference in function / usability between an edge 530 and an etrex 32x? Once a bike mount is added they’re pretty close in price.
Background:
I used to have a satmap 10. A downpour fried it. I struggle to justify that price now.
I tried my phone (previous and current), but the strava tracks are full of jumping about.
I currently use a Lezyne that doesn’t do mapping, as a computer / recorder. For maps I have paper on a bar bag. I actually really like the wider view, especially for making it up as I go / touring.
However, for rides involving the night the bar bag and light fight; and for audax I’m mostly following a plan and could loose the big bag of cameras (and so the map on top).
My idea of navigation is mostly following a line on a map, but a map that does off road as well as on. Attaching route sheet instructions to places could be useful. I can plan routes on Linux (1st choice), iPad, or Mac using some mix of rwgps and Komoot.
I’d want distance, ride time, heart rate, speed, clock time etc as computer functions. But I’m not doing laps or following pace targets. And getting the ride record out to strava, but I don’t need notified about segments on the go.
Battery life needs to be over 12 hours in reality, ideally 20 - corresponding to 200 / 300 without mucking about with chargers. For multi day / longer the USB charge I’d already support for my phone, and AAs are reassuringly widely available.
-
I would go down the 530 route.
-
I would go down the 530 route.
What about it makes you prefer it?
Not questioning, actually curious.
-
I've got an Etrex 30 that I've been using for several years with minimal problems (there are some idosyncracies that you have to get your head around including: splitting tracks or downsizing the number of track points to get over the track point limit; stitching tracks together after long overnight rides; tricking strava into reading the bariometric altimeter). It will do all of the things that you (Perpetual Dan) require and it with the right batteries you can cover rides up to 600km on one or two sets of batteries. The mapping is fine if used in track mode (following the line on a map), it will also do routing with turn by turn directions but is a little less stable but there are ways to minimise the problem but it sounds like you're happy with the line on the map.
I recently bought a new bike and fancied trying a different GPS and bought a 530. The reasons: the mounting is a lot neater and there are more options including out-front mounts; the 530 has a longer run time than previous models and is compatible with the stupidly expensive Garmin battery which can be mounted underneath it, if I get on with it then I might indulge in one of these which might combined might get me around a 600; my understanding is that it has a significantly faster processor which I'm hoping will make it less crash prone than other Edge models; I fancied trying something with turn by turn directions and without some of the faff of the etrex in terms of splitting tracks and recombining ridden tracks; and something with a bit more connectivity for uploads etc.
After about 5 weeks, my reflections are that it's nice, I have a bit of a learning curve regarding it's mapping but I'm getting there and there are some settings that you have to get right to make it behave itself in line with my wishes. it's better than the etrex in sunlight. I could happily live without a lot of the fitness training features and so in many ways I'm using it like the Etrex. I also think if I was heading on a long ride using unfamiliar roads I'd be going for the Etrex but that may be because I'm so used to it.
-
I tried a 530 a few weeks ago. I got it along with a 1030 to see which I preferred. The 1030 was far more pleasant to use. The 530 felt like it was a device with buttons but which has been designed to work with a touch screen. I found it noticeably less pleasant to use than my old 705 ,which does not have a touch screen but was designed to be operated without one.
Based on this, If going for a garmin edge I'd get a touch screen one.
-
Thanks, these kinds of experience are so useful.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the etrex seems to lack syncing via a phone at the end of the day, which will be tedious and also has possibly poor compatibility with rotation sensors.
The 830 is back into satmap prices. Saving up maybe better than instant gratification though :)
-
...I’ve come to the conclusion that the etrex seems to lack syncing via a phone at the end of the day, which will be tedious...
Download file from GPS, upload it to a website. Not really that strenuous IME.
-
The Wahoo syncs with RwGPS via the home wifi as you walk through the door.
-
The Wahoo syncs with RwGPS via the home wifi as you walk through the door.
I’ve mostly written them off on the mapping front though.
-
Fair enough. Perhaps you need a SatMap / Wahoo combo.
-
Fair enough. Perhaps you need a SatMap / Wahoo combo.
:D
-
The Wahoo syncs with RwGPS via the home wifi as you walk through the door.
I’ve mostly written them off on the mapping front though.
Why? It's OSM...
J
-
A reduced version of OSM, and not as detailed as Garmin. Plus, seeing enough map to get back onto your route if you ever leave it is a pain.
-
What Karla said. Plus, on the website there's a fleeting glance of a map (that doesn't impress) then they barely mention them. It's like it's a feature they don't care about.
-
A reduced version of OSM, and not as detailed as Garmin. Plus, seeing enough map to get back onto your route if you ever leave it is a pain.
I've found the Wahoo mapping adequate for road rides all over the world. On the occasions when you go significantly off route (not easy as the warning beep on the Bolt is quite loud!) or need to re-route, I just get out the phone so you have a large, clear display. Between to two they are more than adequate.
-
Have you considered using a phone app?
Not for everyone but certainly wins vs both Garmin and Wahoo on mapping and integrates / syncs at least as well with RWGPS, Strava, etc.
-
Have you considered using a phone app?
Not for everyone but certainly wins vs both Garmin and Wahoo on mapping and integrates / syncs at least as well with RWGPS, Strava, etc.
I have, and followed your thread on that with interest. I'm put off by several things:
- On both my current and previous phones, the GPS tracks in strava were all over the place. I've regularly had jumps of >500m while running along Brighton seafront, or on the nearest hill (from which I can see home) - nice clear views of the sky for GPS! That makes me nervous about both relying on it for navigation and for recording a track (kind of two separate functions, but ones I'd like to combine into one device).
- Screen visibility and touch behavior in sunlight or with water on a cover seem fairly compromised.
- There's a security in not running the phone battery down in normal use. Both in a phoning for help sense, but also as a plan B navigation device (having had a GPS fail on me in pouring rain on Exmoor I do like a plan B).
I've found the Wahoo mapping adequate for road rides all over the world.
What's it like off road? The little I could see of it looked like it lacked the detail to make that a happy experience.
This is feature creep compared to my talking about audax before, but most of my weekend rides have a bit of bridleway / byway / cyclepath about them.
Download file from GPS, upload it to a website. Not really that strenuous IME.
True, not strenuous - just less convenient. I wouldn't normally head to my computer at the end of a ride. I might get sweat on my nice keyboard :)
The issues with sensor compatibility (the ones I have aren't mentioned as compatible, Garmin no longer make the ones that are) also put me off.
-
I've found the Wahoo mapping adequate for road rides all over the world.
What's it like off road? The little I could see of it looked like it lacked the detail to make that a happy experience.
This is feature creep compared to my talking about audax before, but most of my weekend rides have a bit of bridleway / byway / cyclepath about them.
Should be able to report on that in a couple of weeks. We're heading down for a week of occasional bouncing around the South Downs very shortly.
-
I've found the Wahoo mapping adequate for road rides all over the world.
What's it like off road? The little I could see of it looked like it lacked the detail to make that a happy experience.
This is feature creep compared to my talking about audax before, but most of my weekend rides have a bit of bridleway / byway / cyclepath about them.
It's fine - I've used it on the tracks and bridleways near where I used to live and it was really no different from using it onroad. Think it comes down to how well your area's tracks/bridleways are mapped.
-
- On both my current and previous phones, the GPS tracks in strava were all over the place. I've regularly had jumps of >500m while running along Brighton seafront, or on the nearest hill (from which I can see home) - nice clear views of the sky for GPS! That makes me nervous about both relying on it for navigation and for recording a track (kind of two separate functions, but ones I'd like to combine into one device).
- Screen visibility and touch behavior in sunlight or with water on a cover seem fairly compromised.
- There's a security in not running the phone battery down in normal use. Both in a phoning for help sense, but also as a plan B navigation device (having had a GPS fail on me in pouring rain on Exmoor I do like a plan B).
Your first point has not been my experience (and I've not heard it from others): my GPS tracks have been fine with two phones. And for your third point, I'd recommend using a second phone so you still have your main one as backup. But the screen has some drawbacks with sun, rain and also potentially with gloves when its cold.
I've been using my phone again for the last month in lots of sun and pushing it up to full brightness when the sun is right behind me has kept it visible enough, while I've still been getting 5 hours of battery. I've not ridden much in rain but my expectation is that basically I wouldn't be able to adjust the screen while it is wet. That is probably OK (as it's unlikely to get very bright while it is still raining). However, I do like to be able to scroll in a bit for towns and out for open country. The other issue which I won't get to the bottom of for a few months is how it is with gloves. I expect it will be a bit more clunky but possible to make any adjustments, although some gloves might not work at all.
-
Battery life was one of the main reasons I chose the Bolt. 15 hours on a good day.
-
17 hours (claimed) for the Roam.
-
Edge 530 finishes a 12 hour ride with more than 65% battery
-
Edge 530 finishes a 12 hour ride with more than 65% battery
i've heard real life useage can be up to 40hrs, a massive improvement over the previous unit capable of 12-15hrs
-
Edge 530 finishes a 12 hour ride with more than 65% battery
i've heard real life useage can be up to 40hrs, a massive improvement over the previous unit capable of 12-15hrs
Is that with backlight on for some of it?
J
-
That's auto settings, so back-lit when it thinks it's dark. I actually didn't notice if /when it was lit, it was simply always readable. HRM, cadence & phone constantly connected.
It's a massive improvement on the 520/520+ which required a top up after maybe 4 or 5 hours.
-
It's a massive improvement on the 520/520+ which required a top up after maybe 4 or 5 hours.
That’s mad. I could easily get round a 300 on a single charge with the 510. Was considering the 520 as a replacement but don’t think I’ll bother if it’s that bad.
-
Edge 530 finishes a 12 hour ride with more than 65% battery
I bought the Edge 530 a while ago and used it on a 200k DIY at the weekend, Took me Just under 10 hours and still had 87% battery left.
Very impressed with the ease of use and the interactions with RWGPS, Strave etc. Navigation is also the best I've had on any GPS unit I've owned. I also managed to get a good deal on the Garmin external battery which attaches to the underside of the unit giving charging on the go for the unit and anything else via USB port on it.
-
It's a massive improvement on the 520/520+ which required a top up after maybe 4 or 5 hours.
That’s mad. I could easily get round a 300 on a single charge with the 510. Was considering the 520 as a replacement but don’t think I’ll bother if it’s that bad.
I really wouldn't bother. The 520 isn't heavily enough discounted, the map limitations are incredibly restrictive and the processor is pants. The 520+ solved the map issue, but the 530 is streets (moors, fields, lanes, all of them) better.
Very impressed with the ease of use and the interactions with RWGPS, Strave etc.
Much shallower learning curve- but I've been in Edge-land for a while. The Climb feature (invisible in East Angulan rides) is omnipresent round here- so I turned the bloody thing off. Really easily.
-
I would go down the 530 route.
What about it makes you prefer it?
Not questioning, actually curious.
My etrex goes through batteries very quickly, uses a different cable to everything else, can’t upload routes via Bluetooth and doesn’t tell you when you have veered off route the main issues. Oh at the moment refuses to acknowledge the existence of any routes I have loaded.
-
I would go down the 530 route.
What about it makes you prefer it?
Not questioning, actually curious.
My etrex goes through batteries very quickly, uses a different cable to everything else, can’t upload routes via Bluetooth and doesn’t tell you when you have veered off route the main issues. Oh at the moment refuses to acknowledge the existence of any routes I have loaded.
Which eTrex is that ???
-
I would go down the 530 route.
What about it makes you prefer it?
Not questioning, actually curious.
My etrex goes through batteries very quickly, uses a different cable to everything else, can’t upload routes via Bluetooth and doesn’t tell you when you have veered off route the main issues. Oh at the moment refuses to acknowledge the existence of any routes I have loaded.
Which eTrex is that ???
Etrex touch 35
-
Etrex 35 is shit, through and through. I got Garmin to provide a Etrex 30 as a replacement.
-
I really wouldn't bother. The 520 isn't heavily enough discounted, the map limitations are incredibly restrictive and the processor is pants. The 520+ solved the map issue, but the 530 is streets (moors, fields, lanes, all of them) better.
Thanks, good to know.
I think it has already been observed that Garmin have a habit of frequently getting it spectacularly wrong but occasionally get it just right. Based on my experience with the 510, that was a case of them getting it just right, and part of the reason I stuck with it for so long was hearing the horror stories of supposedly superior models.
-
I had one of the Etrex Touch series for about four weeks before it bricked itself. I wasn't in a position to claim for it but I considered it had saved me the greater expense of years of stress-related counselling had I continued to use it. As LWaB says, utterly utterly shit.
-
Glad I read this thread. I moved to Wahoo after years of battery woes (amongst other issues) with Garmins, but it looks as though Garmin have got their shit together with the Edge 530.
-
Glad I read this thread. I moved to Wahoo after years of battery woes (amongst other issues) with Garmins, but it looks as though Garmin have got their shit together with the Edge 530.
FFS, which Garmins and what woes? I have had no 'battery woes' with my eTrex 30.
-
Yebbut given it's been discontinued, that's not much help to anyone in the market for a new gps is it?
-
A question to Garmin 530 owners.
My 520 is on its last legs, been a great device, I would look at the 530 but understand it has aspirations of being a smarter device and comes with routeable maps and does its own on device route calculation. If so how does this fit with an Audax mandatory route? Is there a 530 setting which just says "follow the exact route in the TCX/GPX etc". If I turn off any on device Turn by Turn (as I do on the 520) will it still display the "course point" entries in the TCX file?
I note the exceptional battery life experiences above although some Garmin 530 forums still have bad battery life stories. I used to get 20 hours on the 520 (no backlight, couple of sensors, no phone BT connection) and anything better on the 530 would be great
thanks
-
Yebbut given it's been discontinued, that's not much help to anyone in the market for a new gps is it?
It has been replaced by the Etrex 32x, which is pretty much the same thing, and still a current model.
-
A question to Garmin 530 owners.
My 520 is on its last legs, been a great device, I would look at the 530 but understand it has aspirations of being a smarter device and comes with routeable maps and does its own on device route calculation. If so how does this fit with an Audax mandatory route? Is there a 530 setting which just says "follow the exact route in the TCX/GPX etc". If I turn off any on device Turn by Turn (as I do on the 520) will it still display the "course point" entries in the TCX file?
I note the exceptional battery life experiences above although some Garmin 530 forums still have bad battery life stories. I used to get 20 hours on the 520 (no backlight, couple of sensors, no phone BT connection) and anything better on the 530 would be great
thanks
As noted above I have the Edge 530 and I'm new to this type of GPS having previously used an etrex. My experience to date is that the the unit follow's the uploaded GPX exactly and (mostly) provides turn directions for it. The on route calculations seem to come into play when you go off route and aren't very good (I've turned that function off). Not tried it with turn by turn off so can't comment on that.
The battery life is good but I'm not getting the kind of performance that some have reported in this thread but I haven't used any of the battery saver functions. I seem to be finishing a 200 with about 35% power left.
-
Glad I read this thread. I moved to Wahoo after years of battery woes (amongst other issues) with Garmins, but it looks as though Garmin have got their shit together with the Edge 530.
FFS, which Garmins and what woes? I have had no 'battery woes' with my eTrex 30.
When I was looking to replace my aged etrex 4 years ago, none of the Garmin built-in battery range offered 15 hours battery life which is one of the reasons I went with the Bolt - FFS.
-
A question to Garmin 530 owners.
My 520 is on its last legs, been a great device, I would look at the 530 but understand it has aspirations of being a smarter device and comes with routeable maps and does its own on device route calculation. If so how does this fit with an Audax mandatory route? Is there a 530 setting which just says "follow the exact route in the TCX/GPX etc". If I turn off any on device Turn by Turn (as I do on the 520) will it still display the "course point" entries in the TCX file?
I note the exceptional battery life experiences above although some Garmin 530 forums still have bad battery life stories. I used to get 20 hours on the 520 (no backlight, couple of sensors, no phone BT connection) and anything better on the 530 would be great
thanks
On the strength of a whole 4 rides, 2 of which were free range
Mandatory route with TBT - Just works. If you go off route (which may be taking a corner very wide/ tightly) it likes to re-route you to the exact point you left the track. You can tell it not to do this by default or by occurrence.
Battery life is great- the 520 was OK but the 520+ was shit.
I (almost always) use TBT routing from a self-provided TCX and it appears that the course point limit on the 530 is better than either the 520 or the 520+. I like a countdown to the turn, and would rather spend 8 km looking forward to leaving a road in the fens only to disappointedly find it's merely a change of name, than miss a turn because it didn't tell me.
I did have an unrequested re-start on Sunday. I have no idea why and it re-found the route instantly. Could well have been a wet-ware issue.
So far, I'm loving it.
I really wouldn't bother. The 520 isn't heavily enough discounted, the map limitations are incredibly restrictive and the processor is pants. The 520+ solved the map issue, but the 530 is streets (moors, fields, lanes, all of them) better.
Thanks, good to know.
I think it has already been observed that Garmin have a habit of frequently getting it spectacularly wrong but occasionally get it just right. Based on my experience with the 510, that was a case of them getting it just right, and part of the reason I stuck with it for so long was hearing the horror stories of supposedly superior models.
I should probably have thought more before slating these as we do now have at least one retired model we could have flogged :facepalm:
-
Useful stuff in this thread. I'd pretty much settled on replacing my Edge 500 with a 130 plus. However, this has put me off:
* downsampling of courses (longer than 100km courses can be tricky to follow)
* courses that go over itself need to be divided into several, as turn-by-turn doesn't always work
Hmmm. Next a Wahoo Bolt looks good but does it really not have Virtual Partner capability? DC Rainmaker says no but his review is 3 years old.
I primarily use cycle.travel for route planning one reason being it sets the virtual partner to 15kph. As a full value Audaxer I find it very handy to have at a glance how far (distance & time) ahead/behind I am.
-
Yes, this has been really useful. I've got myself an Edge 530. I suspect there's still some setting up to do, but it recorded a run for me at the weekend just fine - I haven't actually used it to navigate anywhere yet ::-)
-
Useful stuff in this thread. I'd pretty much settled on replacing my Edge 500 with a 130 plus. However, this has put me off:
* downsampling of courses (longer than 100km courses can be tricky to follow)
* courses that go over itself need to be divided into several, as turn-by-turn doesn't always work
Hmmm. Next a Wahoo Bolt looks good but does it really not have Virtual Partner capability? DC Rainmaker says no but his review is 3 years old.
I primarily use cycle.travel for route planning one reason being it sets the virtual partner to 15kph. As a full value Audaxer I find it very handy to have at a glance how far (distance & time) ahead/behind I am.
The Wahoo Bolt is the same model as it always was. I use one and I haven't found a virtual partner feature on it yet. If you want one of those, I think VP is a Garmin thing
-
I know two people who, on ultracycling events, have gone the wrong direction after a stop, back the way they came, for several hours. I don't know how they have their systems set up but can't imagine that type of major error could occur with North at the top!
That's a UI design issue though. My app draws a much thicker line in the direction you're meant to be going* and a track of where you've been**. Solving it with north as up seems brute force, but maybe it works for you.
Version 1.0 of my app was north up only and I could never get my head around junctions when travelling south.
* on iOS, never made it work on Android
** Well it would if I ever released the new version.
I don't display the map, I have the various data fields I want instead. One of these is distance to destination. When I approach a turn, the map appears.
-
The Wahoo Bolt is the same model as it always was. I use one and I haven't found a virtual partner feature on it yet. If you want one of those, I think VP is a Garmin thing
Thank you :thumbsup:
(I mentioned the review being 3 years old because DCR updated his Bolt review 12 months after it was originally published and concluded the software updates in that time transformed it from an also-ran to a real market contender.)
-
Right. Well I've had an Element/Bolt since late 2018 and while they've gone through a couple of software updates since then, they haven't changed anything noticeable.
-
I'm stuck. Really need to replace my dead 510 but can't decide what to get. Shortlist* is:
Bolt
Edge 130 Plus
Edge Explore
Edge 530
The 530 is the top choice but it's a lot more expensive than the others, which are all around the same price. Buying any bike computer feels like a bit of an extravagance at the moment but it would be genuinely life enhancing.
The Explore I'm considering simply because it has a larger screen. I don't need many features - my main interest is being able to follow a GPX route and record my ride. Does anyone know how the battery life compares to the 530?
Or should I just hold out a bit longer and get the 530 when I can afford it?
Lately, I've been using a combination of my phone (for route following with Komoot) and Forerunner watch (for recording) and it has confirmed my view that I'd much rather have a dedicated bike-specific device.
*based largely on comments in this thread - I've pretty much ruled out any other options eg Etrex unless someone really wants to try to persuade me...
-
I'm stuck. Really need to replace my dead 510 but can't decide what to get. Shortlist* is:
Bolt
For what you describe, a Bolt would be ideal. I do love mine. I do recommend it.
J
-
For what you describe, a Bolt would be ideal. I do love mine. I do recommend it.
I knew you would say that!
Seriously, it's largely your regular recommendations that are leading me to seriously consider the Bolt. It's almost exactly the same screen size as the 510, so I know it would be perfectly useable. The larger, colour screen of the Explore is very tempting though... aarrrrgh! Why can't I make a decision?
I think, tbh, I've pretty much ruled out the 130 - either the Bolt or the Explore seem like significantly better options for not much more money.
ETA: one other thing in favour of the Explore is that I already have loads of Garmin mounts so swapping it between bikes would be easier.
-
I'm stuck. Really need to replace my dead 510 but can't decide what to get. Shortlist* is:
Bolt
Edge 130 Plus
Edge Explore
Edge 530
The 530 is the top choice but it's a lot more expensive than the others, which are all around the same price. Buying any bike computer feels like a bit of an extravagance at the moment but it would be genuinely life enhancing.
The Explore I'm considering simply because it has a larger screen. I don't need many features - my main interest is being able to follow a GPX route and record my ride. Does anyone know how the battery life compares to the 530?
Or should I just hold out a bit longer and get the 530 when I can afford it?
Lately, I've been using a combination of my phone (for route following with Komoot) and Forerunner watch (for recording) and it has confirmed my view that I'd much rather have a dedicated bike-specific device.
*based largely on comments in this thread - I've pretty much ruled out any other options eg Etrex unless someone really wants to try to persuade me...
Would you consider a second hand Edge 500?
-
Would you consider a second hand Edge 500?
Hmmm. I probably should consider it as a sensible option but... no.
-
The Explore is 180 and the 530 is 230 on Wiggle. Keep using your phone to record rides for a bit longer and save up those pennies?
-
The Explore is 180 and the 530 is 230 on Wiggle. Keep using your phone to record rides for a bit longer and save up those pennies?
It's not so much whether or not I have the pennies in the kitty, it's being able to justify (to myself) spending that extra £50 for features that I can live without...
Does anyone have anything bad to say about the 530* to help me definitively talk myself out of wanting one? ;)
*apart from "it's a Garmin"
-
I’ve found my Edge to be a bit beepy and clunky for recording when running, especially if it’s a route I can find my way round without help. On the bike, I’m pleased.
-
It's very easy to turn all the beeps off on the 530. That's always the first thing I do with a new (or new to me) device.
I love mine. It it by far and away the best cycling GPS I've used.
-
I love mine. It it by far and away the best cycling GPS I've used.
That's not helpful. ;D
-
I commented upthread on the 530 not too long after I'd got it - the only thing I'd add (or reinforce) is that the battery life is very good. I did a 200 yesterday and it still had 40% power left (I don't bother taking a battery pack with me on 200s). I recently did a 600 and it got around on one overnight charge at a travelodge and a minor top up on the first day with a battery pack. Think I've sorted out the settings now so that it's doing what I want it to do.
Things it's not very good at - rerouting when off route (I've turned this off now as it was so poor). I've still got to get my head around using the map to get back on route.
-
I commented upthread on the 530 not too long after I'd got it - the only thing I'd add (or reinforce) is that the battery life is very good. I did a 200 yesterday and it still had 40% power left (I don't bother taking a battery pack with me on 200s). I recently did a 600 and it got around on one overnight charge at a travelodge and a minor top up on the first day with a battery pack. Think I've sorted out the settings now so that it's doing what I want it to do.
Things it's not very good at - rerouting when off route (I've turned this off now as it was so poor). I've still got to get my head around using the map to get back on route.
Without knowing your finish time, we can't easily judge the battery life. It could be anywhere from 6:45, to 13:30. Which is a significant variance...
J
-
It's very easy to turn all the beeps off on the 530. That's always the first thing I do with a new (or new to me) device.
I love mine. It it by far and away the best cycling GPS I've used.
Second that.
-
I commented upthread on the 530 not too long after I'd got it - the only thing I'd add (or reinforce) is that the battery life is very good. I did a 200 yesterday and it still had 40% power left (I don't bother taking a battery pack with me on 200s). I recently did a 600 and it got around on one overnight charge at a travelodge and a minor top up on the first day with a battery pack. Think I've sorted out the settings now so that it's doing what I want it to do.
Things it's not very good at - rerouting when off route (I've turned this off now as it was so poor). I've still got to get my head around using the map to get back on route.
Without knowing your finish time, we can't easily judge the battery life. It could be anywhere from 6:45, to 13:30. Which is a significant variance...
J
Yes, sorry - yesterday's 200 was 10 hours and the 600 mentioned was 38 hours (top up from battery pack at 250km and 2 hours charge at the Travelodge at 370km)
-
Apparently, it's "Amazon Prime day" and the Explore is down from £185 to £130... which has suddenly made the decision process an awful lot easier (the Bolt is still full price).
Order placed!
I feel like a disgusting pawn of the capitalist system, but I get a shiny new toy so I'm happy.
-
Apparently, it's "Amazon Prime day" and the Explore is down from £185 to £130... which has suddenly made the decision process an awful lot easier (the Bolt is still full price).
Order placed!
I feel like a disgusting pawn of the capitalist system, but I get a shiny new toy so I'm happy.
I've read a few reviews (https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-explore/150973/real-world-battery-life) which are far from complementary of Garmin's claim of up to 12 hours battery life.
What I mean is, the complainants were getting nothing near 12 hours running from a full charge on their units.
-
Well, it’s worth a punt at the price. I’ll report back with my own experiences.
-
Well, it’s worth a punt at the price. I’ll report back with my own experiences.
Please do. Although, by the time you report back, the lower-price offer will no longer be available. :-\
-
Apparently, it's "Amazon Prime day" and the Explore is down from £185 to £130... which has suddenly made the decision process an awful lot easier (the Bolt is still full price).
Order placed!
I feel like a disgusting pawn of the capitalist system, but I get a shiny new toy so I'm happy.
Only saw this today so couldnt reply earlier, I am also the owner of an edge explore. Generally I am happy with it. Does what I need
and (like you) I also dont need all those features on the high-end edges. Battery life is probably the main issue, I think Garmin claims 12hrs but
I have never got anywhere near that out of it. Usually after around 6 to 7 hrs I have about 30% left. I tend to take 9-10 hrs on a 200km so I usually
put it on the charger at the last Control so I have no idea how that last 30% works out. With some of the battery saving features turned on you might get close to the 12hrs I guess.
I have been using it since April 2019 and its been fine, although from time to time I have seen my data fields reconfigured. I only use one
data field 'page' but occassionally one field will be swapped with another or even replaced by one i dont want to use. Last saturday on a 200 the
heading field (which i always have visible on the map screen) was replaced by ETA at next course point.
-
Went out for my first proper ride with the Explore today - I was out for just shy of 5 hours, following a pre-planned course, with the Explore running all the time (I don't do auto-start/stop) and my phone was connected for the whole ride. When I got home, there was 69% battery remaining. Pretty good, I reckon - and if anything suggests the claimed 12hrs is a tad conservative.
The only concession I made to saving battery life was to set the screen to auto-sleep* - so it was off most of the time, only coming on to give me alerts/turn instructions. I presume this makes a pretty big difference to battery life, and maybe those who aren't getting the claimed run times are using it with the screen permanently on? I'm used to having the screen permanently on with the 510 because the lack of maps means it's the only way to make sure you don't miss your turnings, but I really enjoyed riding without feeling the need to keep looking at the handlebars (except when it beeped at me) and instead spent a lot more time enjoying the scenery.
Impressed.
*actually, this is the default setting, so what I mean is I just left it on that. The fact that this is the default suggests this is how it is designed to be used, and that battery claims are based on this scenario.
-
I have recently purchased a 530, after my Etrex 30x developed a screen fault. It has taken a long time to learn how to use it. Mostly, because it comes with all the bells and whistles switched on, and I have to work out what screen has just popped up, and where the setting is to stop it popping up again. It is obviously a very clever piece of kit with far more features than I am ever going to use. So far, I have been quite happy. I have been particularly impressed with 'Climb Pro' which I certainly did not expect. I grind up hills extremely slowly, and thought 'Climb Pro' would only be useful to those for whom an AAA rating is an attraction and not a warning, but I actually find it helps a lot! I have not, so far, been amazed at the battery life, but maybe I just haven't found the right setting yet. My biggest complaint is that the bluetooth connection to my iphone7 is unreliable at best, meaning that the Live Track and Incident Detection features are a bit hit and miss. I also find the Garmin App really confusing. It took me a long time to work out how to plan a route on the app. It is not obvious, and you have to go down several dead ends before finding the correct menu option.
-
I I also find the Garmin App really confusing. It took me a long time to work out how to plan a route on the app. It is not obvious, and you have to go down several dead ends before finding the correct menu option.
I don’t use Connect for route planning - I make courses in other apps and import them into Connect.
I did try the Explore’s auto route planner for a short local test ride yesterday but wasn’t entirely impressed with it’s - it wanted me to go down the A2... no thanks! Might need to tinker with the settings if I’m going to use that feature again.
-
...I have not, so far, been amazed at the battery life...
Not surprising after an eTrex, thobut.
-
Especially with rechargeable lithium AAs and chargers now becoming available. We are soon going to see eTrex running for 40 or more hours on a single pair of AA. This is with screen and low level backlight on all the time in map mode.
-
Especially with rechargeable lithium AAs and chargers now becoming available. We are soon going to see eTrex running for 40 or more hours on a single pair of AA. This is with screen and low level backlight on all the time in map mode.
I got quite excited about this. Then I started to read this article https://reactual.com/portable-electronics/batteries-portable-electronics/do-rechargeable-lithium-ion-aa-batteries-exist.html (https://reactual.com/portable-electronics/batteries-portable-electronics/do-rechargeable-lithium-ion-aa-batteries-exist.html) that suggested these rechargeable Lithium AAs were not even as good as the best NiMH batteries.
-
Early days yet , but finally here, and capacities will rise just as they did with niMh rechargeables. Having said that I’m seeing 30 hours on my latest niMh rechargeables, so maybe not as big a jump as I think.
-
For GPS use, a problem with rechargable lithium cells is that they are regulated down to 1.5V.
That means that the battery gauge in the GPS doesn't work properly, and that it reads fully charged right up to the point where the regulator in the cell decides that the cell is exhausted and turns it off, shutting down the GPS with zero warning.
Having had a google, they have improved quite a bit since I got some a while back (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=104684.0). These 3300 mWh AA lithium rechargables (https://www.amazon.co.uk/EBL-AA-Rechargeable-Batteries-Capacity-Black/dp/B0828GN5RL/ref=sr_1_8) (with USB charging port) seem quite a lot better, apart from the somewhat sneaky use of mWh for the sake of bigger numbers (having said which, mWh are a better measure of the oomph in the cell, if only everyone used it).
-
That means that the battery gauge in the GPS doesn't work properly, and that it reads fully charged right up to the point where the regulator in the cell decides that the cell is exhausted and turns it off, shutting down the GPS with zero warning.
The better lithium AA/AAAs simulate the voltage curve of an alkaline to avoid this problem.
apart from the somewhat sneaky use of mWh for the sake of bigger numbers (having said which, mWh are a better measure of the oomph in the cell, if only everyone used it).
If a NiMH battery spends most of its life not far above 1.0 volts, then for comparison purposes mWh is roughly equivalent to NiMH mAh.
-
A NiMH cell spends 95% of its working life very close to 1.2V. If it gets down to 1.1V it's within 5 minutes of being totally flat. In practical terms in a GPS, the best NiMHs outperform even Energizer lithium primary AAs - and are tried and tested to their rated capacity - although with a significant weight penalty over lithiums. (Notable that these new Li-ion rechargables are the same weight as NiMHs - twice the weight of lithium primaries.)
Where lithium cells regulated to 1.5V would score heavily over NiMHs is in an unregulated 4xAA front light like the old CatEye Micro - but who uses those any more.- For backup AAs carried in the bottom of the bag nothing beats lithium primaries - lightest weight, longest shelf life.
-
For backup AAs carried in the bottom of the bag nothing beats lithium primaries - lightest weight, longest shelf life.
Twice I had brand new emergency purchased Energizer Lithiums go flat within 10 minutes.
-
I have recently purchased a 530, after my Etrex 30x developed a screen fault. It has taken a long time to learn how to use it. Mostly, because it comes with all the bells and whistles switched on, and I have to work out what screen has just popped up, and where the setting is to stop it popping up again. It is obviously a very clever piece of kit with far more features than I am ever going to use. So far, I have been quite happy. I have been particularly impressed with 'Climb Pro' which I certainly did not expect. I grind up hills extremely slowly, and thought 'Climb Pro' would only be useful to those for whom an AAA rating is an attraction and not a warning, but I actually find it helps a lot! I have not, so far, been amazed at the battery life, but maybe I just haven't found the right setting yet. My biggest complaint is that the bluetooth connection to my iphone7 is unreliable at best, meaning that the Live Track and Incident Detection features are a bit hit and miss. I also find the Garmin App really confusing. It took me a long time to work out how to plan a route on the app. It is not obvious, and you have to go down several dead ends before finding the correct menu option.
I recently purchased a 530 to replace the 1000 that I washed and spun to deth. I prep routes in Strava and then it auto uploads to the 530 next time it syncs. It's pretty straightforward.
I like the 530 and don't feel that it's a step down in anyway but cost. It has more than I need, but I've set up a couple of personal data screens and together with the way it pops the map and directions up if it's navigating it is a nice device.
-
I have recently upgraded from an ageing edge 705 to a 530. The battery life on the 705 was poor but not unmanageable if hooked upto a power bank, the mapping was getting old but the main issue was my aging eyes were struggling with the screen. The 530 screen is slightly bigger but much brighter and clearer, although it still occasionally beeps and tries to tell me things that would only be visible if I had my reading glasses on.
The speed at which it loads routes in a great improvement over the 705 (but that 10+ years of progress) a 100 mile route can be processed in seconds rather than the many minutes that the 705 took. The ability to upload and download via a phone is not a new feature but its new to me and saves hassle. The strava live segment function is good fun. The routing is good and clear and it lets you know within a few metres if you have gone of route.
battery life seems very good so far and I will get the external power pack eventually.
so what's the downsides
I have paid for a host of features that I have turned off, mainly because I don't want it constantly beeping at me every time I go uphill
The menu system is a bit clunky and involves lots of button pressing and remembering where the options are, although once set up for your preferences you don't need to fiddle much again
it doesn't have the ability to route you to an address etc on the unit, the 705 could, although i might have only used it once or twice when i got very lost.
I bought it partly in preparation for LEL next year but I don't think i can hold Garmin responsible for that.
So far i'm happy, it works well and does what I need, the larger touch screen device might have been a better in terms of screen visibility but i couldn't justify spending that much
-
It can route you to a location from the unit?
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge530/EN-US/GUID-BC41609D-1AA5-456F-BE74-71101630D704.html
-
It can route you to a location from the unit?
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge530/EN-US/GUID-BC41609D-1AA5-456F-BE74-71101630D704.html
Thanks, I clearly need to spend a bit more time with the manual.
-
I recently bought a garmin 530 having previously come from a 800 and for the last 4+ years a 820 and am finding it very clunky as compared to my 820 and much harder to use on the fly .
The wife will end up with this and her 520 sold .
Given the 1030 is on offer at wiggle for £300 and I used my old Garmin’s when out walking as well as I had a os outdoors map card (which I now realise I should never have sold :facepalm:) I’m thinking that’s better value than the 830 but is it to big ::-)
-
I've had a 1030 since it came out and I think it's great. I still have the 1000 I was technically replacing (the screen is discoloured from getting too hot, but it works fine).
For me, the main advantage of the 1030 is the big screen (FCVO 'big' - my phone is much bigger). I have only the map displaying while I'm riding, though I will have upcoming turns if I'm on a particularly unfamiliar route, and the screen size and clarity is great for quick referencing while in motion. I don't look at the data until the ride is finished - it'll be embarrassingly poor to crap, so I don't need that in my face while riding - but I do enjoy a bit of analysis after it's over, and the 1030 supplies oodles of info. It also lasts far longer than any ride I will ever do.
-
Thanks for the reply but after looking at size it would appear I cannot fit the 1030 either between my tt bars easily or on the stem due to said tt bars unless I run a longer stem or alter my tt bar set up so it’s looking like a 830 .
-
How close together are your TT bars ? Surely a 1030 will fit between
-
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210330/3d59a816fdfed057cbe80c79adfa399a.jpg)
-
Narrower than that , I can just fit a garmin 200 on top of a cross bridge which I mount a light on the bottom of.
A garmin 800/810 was to big to mount there as it caught my arms so I mount that on the stem but not enough room for the 1030 there.
It might fit if I go to a under instead of over bar tt set which I will try at some stage as I have some I’m going to try and manage with the 530 till then unless I see a discounted 830
-
My old Oregon 600 is not well. It still works, but there's a big black blot of dead screen in a faitly important place and the rubber on the back has a split in it. I'm aware that it's possible to buy a replacement screen and do a DIY job on it, but I'm not sure about the back. It certainly won't be waterproof in its current state.
I'm thinking about replacing it but I haven't kept up with what is current.
My uses for a Garmin are twofold: I like to plot a track on some software or a website (bikehike was always my favourite) and download it to the Garmin. Then I simply use it as a breadcrumb trail. It doesn't matter whether I am walking or cycling, that's pretty much the sum total of my usage.
I see that there are lots of Garmin watches around these days - at a price. I cannot envisage how my preferred uses would adapt themselves to a watch: the display would surely be too small for me to use it as a mapping tool - can you even load maps onto one of these watches? And if you are riding along navigating, you don't really want to be taking your hand off the handlebars for long enough to be making navigation decisions.
So I think I'm likely to want a bar-mounted/hand-held unit. I've always used AA batteries - the only two GPS devices I've owned are the Etrex Vista HCx and the Oregon 600.
Alternatively, has anyone successfully replaced the screen and the back?
-
Yes, you can load maps into some of the watches - and all Garmin mapping devices now come with some version of OSM installed. Adding new maps is fairly easy, and can be free - in exchange for some technical nerdology. I think pretty much all Garmins will do breadcrumb mapping. I wouldn't use any watch for mapreading while on a bike; the potential for disaster is obvious. OTOH, I always have the map - and only the map - showng on my Edge 1000 or 1030 that I use on the bike. The screen is big enough to make navigation easy, and the Garmin LED screen is more easily readable than a phone screen (which is what I'd use off the bike), particularly in bright sunlight. I reckon you can pick up NOS Edge 1000s (or even better the Edge Explore, which ditches most of the fitness stff which I'm guessing you won't need) pretty cheap. Decathlon have the Edge 1000 Explore at £189 just now. Clicky (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/edge-explore-cycling-gps/_/R-p-X8535222?mc=8535222&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=SurfacesForGoogle&utm_content=8535222-2738862&iv_=__iv_p_1_g_118516964608_c_478903077110_w_aud-668605684951:pla-295628808180_n_g_d_c_v__l__t__r_x_pla_y_15177021_f_online_o_8535222-2738862_z_GB_i_en_j_295628808180_s__e__h_1006826_ii__vi__&gclid=CjwKCAjwvMqDBhB8EiwA2iSmPCTBuwGaMgZeAKw_yE2ZKdzcE-T35wmc0AKko3LYFfMhmwRu-3HhnxoC7yEQAvD_BwE)
-
I've been using OpenFietsMap downloads for years - indeed, it's quite possible that if you've ridden in Essex, Suffolk, Wales or Brittany, you have ridden on roads plotted by me! They are my preference. I pay a £19.99 subscription to Ordnance Survey to have maps on my phone - but of course they are dependent on having a signal, unless of course I've specifically paid for a paper map in recent years and downloaded an off-line copy.
-
Ah - the very technical nerdology I was thinking of!
I have both OSMaps and viewranger on my phone, and they are great for walking. I certainly wouldn't normally use the Garmins for that - but I would carry one as a backup, not least because their battery life while navigating is better than my phone.
Viewranger allows pretty cheap downloads of OS maps. Through various offers, I have most of East Anglia on 25k now.
-
Thanks for the Decathlon link. I'm considering one now...
-
Incidentally, I found a couple of website with instructions on how to replace a duff screen, but the only place I found that was selling replacements in the UK was charging about £60. The instruction sites I looked at were saying <$20! Either they were very out of date or that's one hell of a mark-up.
It hardly seems worth pratting around with an old machine when a new one costs a lot less than I paid for my Oregon.
-
Thanks for the Decathlon link. I'm considering one now...
Excellent!
I really need a new screen for my 1000 - left it out in the sun one day, and when I swiped the screen to move to another view, it permanently marked the touch-sensitive layer. It still works fine, but is bloody annoying - so don't leave it on the bike in teh sun when it's 30+ degrees!
-
I pay a £19.99 subscription to Ordnance Survey to have maps on my phone - but of course they are dependent on having a signal, unless of course I've specifically paid for a paper map in recent years and downloaded an off-line copy.
On account of the strong correlation between need for a map and poor cellular signal, I paid a one-off £50 for the entire set of 1:50k OS maps in Viewranger, which stores the maps locally. There are other alternatives, Viewranger just happened to have the most functionally useful app at the time, but no doubt things have moved on.
Anyway, IME, OS maps on a phone or tablet work well on foot or to supplement a more rugged and power-efficient GPS receiver for on-bike road navigation. I think we can safely dismiss watches as only being suited for recording data while cycling, unless you mount them to the handlebars, at which point the biometric stuff stops working and the screen is too small.
-
How much memory does the entire country at 1:50k take up on an iPhone or android alternative?
-
Thanks for the Decathlon link. I'm considering one now...
Excellent!
I really need a new screen for my 1000 - left it out in the sun one day, and when I swiped the screen to move to another view, it permanently marked the touch-sensitive layer. It still works fine, but is bloody annoying - so don't leave it on the bike in teh sun when it's 30+ degrees!
Well, I ordered one, and the handlebar mount that Decathlon sell. Decathlon take an age to deliver - 10 days! - and they charge £4.99 for a home delivery. I could click-and-collect in store, but that seems to take just as long and ICBA to drive to Sodding Lakeside just to save £5.
I was reading the reviews of the bar mount, and there was some French guy who had broken two riding across cobbles. Or he might have been Belgian. Either way, they offered him a refund.
-
I've got several out-front bar mounts, by various different manufacturers. They all seem fine. The 1030 doesn't fit on some of them, but I don't have that problem with the 1000. The on-bar mount that comes with the device is ok, but we all have far less bar space than we used to! And, while it will fit on the stem, if it's not at least a 10cm stem you won't get the thing on there without it resting on either the steerer head or the stem head. But; first world problems!