Author Topic: Cross Training: Running (Read 434600 times)

Greenbank · « **Reply #2300 on:** 24 July, 2020, 12:13:39 pm »

Quote from: Ashaman42 on 24 July, 2020, 11:50:50 am

Yeah very pleased, thought I'd take longer to progress from 5k to 10k so it was a nice surprise.

Wondering about trying my next couple short runs with a backpack to get used to it so I can carry a bit of water and a jacket if I start going longer. I didn't need water yesterday but I was happy to have a drink when I got in. I've got a vague idea of heading up onto the Downs maybe and doing a bit of off road for variety.

In general the recommendation is do more than 10% of what you did before, but it's not as simple as just saying that 5km to 10km is a 100% jump and therefore bad, it's got to be taken in context of the weekly load. If you're doing four 5k runs a week (for 20km in total) then making one of them 10km would only mean a 25% weekly distance increase. Dropping one of the 5k runs and replacing another with a 10k run would give you the same weekly load.

It's still not that simple. Doing 4x11km runs in a week doesn't mean that you can do nothing for most of a week and then run a marathon. Your body is going to need to build up getting used to the longer runs. If you can run 5k at a reasonable pace (you're talking about a 5min/km) then pushing on to 10k isn't that tricky.

In general, a large increase in individual run distance will come with an increased risk of injury. Plenty of people get away with going 5k to 10k, but some don't. I'm glad you got away with it.

As for drinks. It's personal. Some people can't do a 5k without carrying water. I'll do a 16km run without taking anything to drink, just make sure I'm hydrated before hand. For anything longer than that I'll take a 500ml hand bottle[1] with me. I prefer not running with anything on my back if I can help it.

But when I used to extend my commute in to work into a HM I used to have to take work ID/wallet/keys/etc with me and so I'd use a small running rucksack and take the hand bottle, when it was finished I'd stuff it in the backpack so I could do the majority of the route without having to hold anything.

Another alternative is something like an IsoGel or two. That way you can get some energy and a bit of hydration (rather than just a normal gel that is hypotonic[2] if not taken with some other fluids).

I could always get a drink shortly after finishing or, if I really needed it, en route somewhere given my commute was into central London and I passed nearby to literally thousands of shops along the way.

1. Something like this: https://www.wiggle.com/ultimate-performance-kielder-handheld-bottle-carrier
2. Can never remember if its hypo- or hyper-, the one that means it'll make you more dehydrated.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #2301 on:** 24 July, 2020, 02:44:57 pm »

I got some new trainers, and started the c25k app. I have now done 3 of the runs and last night swapped the walk for 90sec to a run of 90secs and a walk of 60 seconds and extended the distance to 5.3km in 38 minutes including 5 minute walk at the beginning and just under at the end.

i did the first two runs oven the roads around about us but for this one headed off road over some trails for about 60% which is really why i restarted running to get into the countryside more.

Really enjoying it so far.

Jasmine · « **Reply #2302 on:** 24 July, 2020, 03:45:35 pm »

I did my furthest ever run today - 26km. Just before Xmas I'd decided to try to increase my distance ability, up from doing a half marathon maybe once every 6 weeks, but mostly doing 10-15km as my long run. I dislocated my ankle just after Xmas (11 km into a half, so forced to pop it back and hope it would 'run off' in 10km - it really didn't) so that didn't start off so well.

During lockdown I've increased the number of 'middle distance' (8-12km) runs that I've been doing, and I've been generally doing 1 or 2 'medium-long' (12-20km) runs a week. I've been unable to really increase the distance beyond 21km. I live somewhere really hilly, so 21km off-road is a hard run. I've also failed to run fast, because the off-road is too technical for me to run fast downhill and the uphills are, well, uphill. I'm also wanting to up my distance without the pace dropping like a stone.

Today I drove somewhere else to run, and it was marvellous. Just a touch over 2 hours, so a decent enough pace, especially as it's not really flat. My legs felt tired toward the end, but otherwise it felt ok all the way.

SteveC · « **Reply #2303 on:** 24 July, 2020, 04:21:00 pm »

That sounds rather good, Jasmine.

And continuing my recovery...
I repeated Wednesday's routine: 5 minute walk, 15 minute run, turn back for home for another 15 minutes, then walk the rest of the way.
A very decent improvement on the last run, going over half a km further overall and managing to get the 5k time under the half hour.
Still hard work and still not completely fixed, but going in the right direction.
I think another flat 5k on Sunday rather than my usual hilly 10k, but at least I am out there doing something.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #2304 on:** 25 July, 2020, 11:43:15 am »

You were all really helpful with shoe advice which has made a great difference. Then i started and did 3 runs using an app of run/walk and was heading out this morning for my 4th. About 100yds from home the heavens opened in a truly biblical fashion. My choice was to either turn for home or keep going. Not really cold so decided to keep going. Then the app stopped playing (I probably stopped it fiddling with my strap). So now it was pouring with rain, the wind started blowing and I had no prompts. I just ran, I thought worst that can happen is that i run out of wind and have to walk but i cannot be any wetter. I ran pretty much the whole of just over 5k. One walking bit after the only real hill and Strava gave me 31.02 for the best estimated 5k which was a PB going back over 10 years. Well chuffed.

SteveC · « **Reply #2305 on:** 25 July, 2020, 12:05:10 pm »

Excellent!

Ashaman42 · « **Reply #2306 on:** 25 July, 2020, 02:42:23 pm »

Yeah I knew jumping to 10k wasn't a 100% jump like you say but that it was also a bit of a risky jump in one go. I seem to have got away with it as I did a 5k in the rain this morning to test out my new trainers (finally got some) and got Strava Best Effort PBs for 5k, 2 miles, 1 mile and 1k!

Zoom zoom! Though I suspect the rain/coolness was more of a factor than the trainers. Willl see how my legs/ankles feel tomorrow but I think the trainers will do as a stopgap till I can get a proper fitting arranged at the very least.

In other news my tshirt got very wet and there was a touch of chafing

which is new. Something to keep in mind if it's raining next time. Should have predicted it but I didn't realise the rain was as heavy as it was till halfway down the road.

Greenbank · « **Reply #2307 on:** 26 July, 2020, 02:44:55 am »

5k in rain I can get away with.

10k in the rain I'll use micropore tape over the nipples.

HM or longer I'll tape up even if it's going to be dry, mostly because I sweat like 10 sweating things and so it's not far off being different from running in the rain.

Some of the photos.... https://runoregonblog.com/2014/03/27/prevent-nipple-chafing-when-you-run/

Polar Bear · « **Reply #2308 on:** 26 July, 2020, 07:52:54 am »

A small smear of good old reliable Vaseline deals with 99% of all known nipple chafing.

Not only did we do that in the eighties and nineties (and it worked) but at events there would be the occasional aid station en route with big pots of the stuff for those in need.

sojournermike · « **Reply #2309 on:** 26 July, 2020, 11:33:06 am »

Quote from: Polar Bear on 26 July, 2020, 07:52:54 am

A small smear of good old reliable Vaseline deals with 99% of all known nipple chafing.

Not only did we do that in the eighties and nineties (and it worked) but at events there would be the occasional aid station en route with big pots of the stuff for those in need.

No sharing these days I’m afraid.

I’ve never forgotten a friend of mine who is, er, more stout than me finishing the Leeds Half with two stream of blood soaked down his tees hurt. ‘Ouch’, I believe he said for a fair few days.

You can of course now buy a man bra, but tbh I wouldn’t. There again, I’ve been lucky in life and don’t even really have pecs.

sojournermike · « **Reply #2310 on:** 26 July, 2020, 11:33:48 am »

Chris, brilliant

Keep it up

SteveC · « **Reply #2311 on:** 26 July, 2020, 01:00:26 pm »

Quote from: SteveC on 24 July, 2020, 04:21:00 pm

And continuing my recovery...
<snip>
I think another flat 5k on Sunday rather than my usual hilly 10k, but at least I am out there doing something.

Better again today. I'm using a timed routine, rather than a distance one for these. Five minutes walk, fifteen minutes run, turn round, fifteen minutes back, walk home. The total distances tell their own story.

Wednesday 5.27 km
Friday 5.85 km
Today 6.15 km

Tomorrow will be a repeat of this, but expecting to be a little slower, but on Wednesday I may try my current favourite loop, which is a little longer and includes hills.

Greenbank · « **Reply #2312 on:** 26 July, 2020, 01:46:16 pm »

Quote from: Polar Bear on 26 July, 2020, 07:52:54 am

A small smear of good old reliable Vaseline deals with 99% of all known nipple chafing.

I'm in the 1% then where vaseline doesn't work reliably for me. It's also not great for modern running fabrics.

Polar Bear · « **Reply #2313 on:** 26 July, 2020, 02:53:50 pm »

I am very fortunate in that chafing has never been an issue for me. I note that there are many products on the market now with prices to match the aspirations of many a modern runner.

I'm well out of date with lots of the "kit" these days.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #2314 on:** 26 July, 2020, 06:03:10 pm »

We had the biblical rain and winds here on sat. So no kayaking (can't carry boat in that weather). Did a 30min upper-body workout, then followed it with a 10km jog.

Halfway into the jog, I tore a calf muscle. No idea how, I was on a slight downhill, not running fast. Walked for a couple of minutes, thinking it was just cramp and would go; nope. So jogged the rest of the way very slowly. It is a bit sore now. No running for me for at least a week.

Greenbank · « **Reply #2315 on:** 27 July, 2020, 04:34:47 pm »

Sunday's usual 10k was moved to today due to booze/apathy.

Means I have to follow it with a 6x800m interval session (at 5:15/km pace) tomorrow. First set of intervals for a year probably. Ugh.

Speaking of which, amazing what a month of aiming to run more slowly does. This was 3 weeks ago:-

and this is now:-

(The anaerobic will be sorted out tomorrow hopefully, not looking forward to that...)

Ashaman42 · « **Reply #2316 on:** 27 July, 2020, 05:02:31 pm »

Calves weren't really working this morning so moved today's run to tomorrow. Did a gentle half hour on the exercise bike and some stretching instead.

My calves still don't work right and stairs are an interesting challenge but they're better than they were and at least the joint pain seems to better and it's now just muscular.

Greenbank · « **Reply #2317 on:** 27 July, 2020, 05:36:14 pm »

I was going to say, one of the major symptoms of pushing too far in one go is nasty DOMS that will come on a day or two after and last for a good 3-4 days.

If you do another straight 10k like that you'll likely get similar DOMS (but only for 2-3 days).

The only way to avoid it is the progressive/gentle increase in time/distance.

Ashaman42 · « **Reply #2318 on:** 27 July, 2020, 08:29:36 pm »

Yeah I think the calves, like you say, were a result doing a 10k one day and then my fastest ever 5k two days later. The plan for tomorrow is a very gentle 5k if the legs feel a bit better in the morning.

Otherwise I'll just do a gentle spin on the exercise bike again. I have nothing to prove so I'm quite happy to be cautious.

zigzag · « **Reply #2319 on:** 28 July, 2020, 08:49:51 am »

finally i was able to run pain free again, it took two months for my hip to heal. i'll start including interval sessions once or twice a week.

sojournermike · « **Reply #2320 on:** 28 July, 2020, 06:30:10 pm »

Headed out at 10 to 7 this morning and did a short 6 miler. Felt a bit heavy, so skipped the idea of intervals and just pootled around. Did quite a big weekend, so that may have still been in my legs, or it could just have been that it was early for me to run...

Still 6 more miles in the bag.

Jasmine · « **Reply #2321 on:** 29 July, 2020, 09:32:31 am »

I've also suffered from heavy legs this week. Lots of running last week, but light on Saturday, cycling on Sunday. Monday was a 2 run day - 10km steady state (50-55 min) in the morning and then flatwork intervals in the evening. I knew when I got up on Tuesday that my planned hills weren't going to happen, so had to skip it and replace with an evening non-hilly run. Today is my scheduled rest day, so just did a spot of bikejor instead, which is much easier on me.

Polar Bear · « **Reply #2322 on:** 29 July, 2020, 10:01:34 am »

I have a few days when I feel like my legs have gained weight but over a few more days the effect gradually passes. Looking at why this happens and investigating training plans I find that it is now normal to have a recovery week every fourth week. I will be adopting this approach into my plans from now on to see if this helps.

Greenbank · « **Reply #2323 on:** 29 July, 2020, 10:27:17 am »

Recovery runs where you run >1minute/km slower than "normal" made a huge difference to my training. I now no longer dread the bulk of my running because it's at a comfortable pace with an HR 20bpm lower than my usual "run" pace.

That and using a 4 week blocks where the individual weeks go: Easy, Medium, Hard, Recovery

I used to be doing every week at somewhere between Medium and Hard and only ended up doing a recovery run when my legs were so battered/heavy or I was so lethargic that I couldn't face doing yet another run at the normal pace. I really noticed the "easy run" idea when I started to help out with the school running club (with some Y4/5/6 kids) and, as long as I wasn't manning the front with the faster Y5/Y6 lot[1], I'd be gently running in the middle or at the back chatting away to them to keep them distracted/motivated. I'd come away from that 4k run with my legs feeling better than they were before, which was an odd concept.

(I won't sugar coat it though. It does mean that there are still runs that I dread. Whilst the bulk of the runs have got easier there are some runs that I now have to do at a harder/faster pace than I was doing before. These aren't fun but they're not too horrid that I'll never do them. The harder you can push in these consistently the more you'll get out of them and the easier it will get in the long ~~run~~ term. The thing that keeps me motivated is the progress I'm making. I may do my usual 5k or 10k loop a bit faster, or it may be about the same time but 5bpm lower HR_avg, or my "easy" pace will catch up to what my "medium" pace was a few months ago, etc.)

1. We've had a couple of past Y6 girls do sub-21 minute parkruns. If I am at the front then trying to keep with one of them for a 1km stretch when they say "can we push it on this bit?" is interesting and I'm grateful for the rest as we wait for the others to catch up.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #2324 on:** 29 July, 2020, 10:57:34 am »

There is a body of thought for training that suggests the bulk of training should be at a lower intensity. Sharp short sessions to add speed.

I've started (when possible) to go for a min 2 hour 'easy' paddle on weekends. 21km takes about 2hr 20min if I'm going slow. Then in the week I just do interval sessions, 5-10km of something like 2' at above race pace, 1' steady.

Two weekends ago went for a longer slow paddle; on the way back I was doing really well, easily maintaining pace well above my normal 'steady'. (that fell apart when my bum started to really hurt.)

Taking it steady is a really refreshing change. Time to focus on technique. Time to look at the scenery.