Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Further and Faster => Topic started by: David Martin on 28 August, 2008, 12:22:01 pm
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The season is over. Time to plan for the next one. My aims are to get my weight down, and my competitive distance up. I'd like to do a 25 next year and a LEJOG.
So far I have two things lined up - other commitments notwithstanding.
1. the tuesday night ride - chaingang for about 20 miles. Harder if I take turns on the front, easier if I just sit in.
Add a hill at the end that I get dropped on every time.
2. The Thursday night ride - long hill climb, circuit of about 21 miles with a sprint at the end.
3. Periodic ride/run to work. Ride will be about 15 hilly miles.
These are the regular rides that get me out and riding.
I need to do some stuff at weekends, longer rides of 2-3 hours, but what else should I be doing? Base speed is poor, leg speed is poor, time is difficult when you are not a selfish git and want to spend some time with the family.
..d
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Have you considered your pedaling style during these different ride types?
During my Long Slow Distance training I have built up a really strong base strength. I am now playing about with upping cadence at times, pushing bigger gears at times, sprinting up hills and also some speedplay / fartlek type riding.
Mixing it up keeps not only my mind in gear but also makes it less boring for us selfish gits.
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In the winter you don't need to train up your speed. Train your speed to peak when you need it. I'm sure you will get lots of advice on how to do time trials. They are the British disease.
If you want to increase your cadence then maybe a bit of turbo work could help or sessions on your "long hill climb" to spin a tiny gear
You might like to come up with a weight loss plan for after xmas. I found no alcohol+less snacking+an hour a day of brisk riding or turboing worked for me
If you want to do a 25 mile time trial then step one is to be able to do that distance with ease. Your 15 to 20 mile rides will not do this.
For a lejog it depends how fast you intend to do it. The distance is roughly 800 miles. So at 100 miles a day average + one rest day that would be 9 days or for 50 miles a day with 3 rest days that would be 19 days. The main problem with distance riding isn't the lungs and legs, it's more often the contact points (backside, feet, hands). So the "training" you need for this is to ride a few long rides to harden up the backside and to check that your bike fit is good.
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Race cross and hit the turbo for lots of interval sessions, you WILL be faster next year.
A 1 hour cross race is similar to a 25 in that you hurt yourself as much as possible for about an hour, it's no coincidence that most crossers can push out a pretty good TT.
Don't overdo the long easy miles 2 hours at 75% is far more beneficial than 4 hours at 55 - 60% the only real benefit of which is getting your backside used to time in the saddle.
I rarely ride for more than 3 hours at a time (mostly about 2 hours) but when I went touring a couple of years ago I easily adapted to 120Km days.
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Race cross and hit the turbo for lots of interval sessions, you WILL be faster next year.
I have one cross race lined up - I have never ridden cross before but it looks fun.
Don't overdo the long easy miles 2 hours at 75% is far more beneficial than 4 hours at 55 - 60% the only real benefit of which is getting your backside used to time in the saddle.
I rarely ride for more than 3 hours at a time (mostly about 2 hours) but when I went touring a couple of years ago I easily adapted to 120Km days.
I'll have to work out what the thresholds are. At present I can do a just better than evens 10 (mid 28) but I rarely feel that I am capable of a sustained power outlay - more like a series of shorter TT's linked with recovery.
I'm hoping the weekend rides (2-3 hours) will boost the distance with the occasional longer ride of 4-6 hours.
As for weight loss, I rarely drink and am being more observant about what I eat.
I'll have to dig the rollers out again and get them working.
..d
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One of the key things for TT training is 2x20 threshold intervals. A good dose of these on top of the road work will certainly help get your sustainable power up.
Don't make the mistake I made last winter - do the threshold work down in your TT riding position so it is as specific to your timetrialling as possible ::-)
Neil
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This is my plan,
(1) ride some randonnees,these drag out the season & keep me interested
(2) improve group riding skills,bike handling skills(i plan on doing some racing next year)
(3) lose some weight,about 10kg,in my case
(4) club runs
(5) start doing randonnees in march
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my plan is similar to yours, with some fast stuff (2 x 20s), gentler longer runs and fast club rides.
Weight loss is what'll make the biggest difference for me though, I think.
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my plan is similar to yours, with some fast stuff (2 x 20s), gentler longer runs and fast club rides.
Weight loss is what'll make the biggest difference for me though, I think.
Is that 2 x 20 seconds or 2x 20 minutes?
My major aim is weight loss (and being able to output sustained effort for 1 hour).
..d
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2 x 20 minutes at about 90-95% of 10 mile TT effort.
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2 x 20 minutes at about 90-95% of 10 mile TT effort.
Those 2x20's look hard. Probably best before breakfast/dinner rather than just after...
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with a 10 minute gap between the two efforts, they're not too bad. To make it harder, drop the gap to 5 minutes. That's lovely.
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The cross thing sounds interesting, there's a league starting in my area this season.
I'll need another bike tho', and I'll need to find a place to put it.
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with a 10 minute gap between the two efforts, they're not too bad. To make it harder, drop the gap to 5 minutes. That's lovely.
Right. Bored as I was with prevaricating about painting the house, I decided to try one of these 2x20's.
Ten minute spin to the start, cunningly positioned so that a 20 minute balls-out ride at 170bpm would land me nicely in Swaffham for a 10 minute spin around town before the return.
Wow! Talk about jelly legs :o. Fun though - the endorphins are flowing now. Oh yes :thumbsup:.
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:D
What's your max HR? I do the 2 x 20s at about 180bpm, my max on a time trial is about 195.
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:D
What's your max HR? I do the 2 x 20s at about 180bpm, my max on a time trial is about 195.
The highest I can push out on the bike is about 185bpm - probably not bad for a fat, ex-smoking nearly-50-year-old like me; and 170 is about the highest I can manage for spells longer that a few minutes.
I was clearly near my lactate threshold as my legs were burning nicely at the end of each push.
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:D
What's your max HR? I do the 2 x 20s at about 180bpm, my max on a time trial is about 195.
The highest I can push out on the bike is about 185bpm - probably not bad for a fat, ex-smoking nearly-50-year-old like me; and 170 is about the highest I can manage for spells longer that a few minutes.
I was clearly near my lactate threshold as my legs were burning nicely at the end of each push.
I can't do 20 mins. I do a 10 as a series of 5ish min efforts where I judge teh downhills as recovery. And the last bit as flat out till I die...
..d
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I can't do 20 mins. I do a 10 as a series of 5ish min efforts where I judge teh downhills as recovery. And the last bit as flat out till I die...
..d
slow down a bit? I've been told that you should finish the second one with a bit left in the tank so you didnt completely knacker yourself for the rest of the weeks training.
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I can't do 20 mins. I do a 10 as a series of 5ish min efforts where I judge teh downhills as recovery. And the last bit as flat out till I die...
..d
slow down a bit? I've been told that you should finish the second one with a bit left in the tank so you didnt completely knacker yourself for the rest of the weeks training.
This year it was my weeks training.. (the midweek tt that is.)
Slowing down a bit gives me a slower time overall. Lack of fitness is the main reason though.. I'm looking forward to the chain ganing starting next week.
..d
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If you're willing to make training less fun, you can make bigger improvements; specific stuff will make you faster than general riding. eg if you spend a month doing sprint training then the next month doing lactate threshold stuff you will get faster than doing two months of rides with some fast stuff in.
Have you considered getting a coach? Combine one with dedication on your part and you will be the best athlete that you could possibly be. Every forum thread about cost priorities for cycling put coaching at the top and they are by no means just for the elite. Some of them do a large part of their trade just by getting people to loose weight and with no competitive goals at all. They aren't too expensive either; I've signed up to one recently for £40 a month.
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If you're willing to make training less fun, you can make bigger improvements; specific stuff will make you faster than general riding. eg if you spend a month doing sprint training then the next month doing lactate threshold stuff you will get faster than doing two months of rides with some fast stuff in.
Have you considered getting a coach? Combine one with dedication on your part and you will be the best athlete that you could possibly be. Every forum thread about cost priorities for cycling put coaching at the top and they are by no means just for the elite. Some of them do a large part of their trade just by getting people to loose weight and with no competitive goals at all. They aren't too expensive either; I've signed up to one recently for £40 a month.
I couldn't fit a coach down some of the roads I ride on..
But seriously, I do think that having a specific objective for each ride is key, especially when time is limiting.
I can split my morning ride up into the various hills and try different strategies (eyeballs out sprint, fast spin, steady pace etc) and see how that goes. Weight loss has to be the key priority though - with that everything else will improve.
Off to get the rollers out now and see if I am still as crap on them as ever I was. Where is my radio to give me something to listen to?
..d
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I think having a coach is a brilliant idea if you want to shave seconds off a TT time, or target a Sportive season.
For your average middle-aged Joe with a history of inappropriate life-style choices (like me), you don't need a coach. What you need is discipline.
Eg: I need to lose 10Kg of lard. I know exactly what I need to do to achieve this. I need to:
1. Stop daily boozing,
2. Stop eating calorie dense crap
3. Run a daily calorie deficit
4. Cross training
5. Core stability weight training
6. Interval training
I don't need to spend any money to tell me how to do this. But it doesn't make it any easier to achieve. Being middle-aged, I'm quite set in my ways. Lifestyle changes at 48 are hard. Ask anyone trying to stop smoking at this stage (at least I've managed that!)
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If weight loss is a priority, then commute as much as possible, but ride at a sedate pace (ie. sub-75% of your max). In fact, ride as much as possible generally, but do so below 75% and you should start shedding weight in no time!
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I don't need to spend any money to tell me how to do this. But it doesn't make it any easier to achieve. Being middle-aged, I'm quite set in my ways. Lifestyle changes at 48 are hard. Ask anyone trying to stop smoking at this stage (at least I've managed that!)
Personally, I find find the thought of having to explain in a guilty fashion to my coach that I did something wrong puts me off doing it!
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If weight loss is a priority, then commute as much as possible, but ride at a sedate pace (ie. sub-75% of your max). In fact, ride as much as possible generally, but do so below 75% and you should start shedding weight in no time!
Yes. Sadly, I work at home and have to contrive my commutes. But I try to average at least an hour a day on the bike to compensate.
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:D
What's your max HR? I do the 2 x 20s at about 180bpm, my max on a time trial is about 195.
The highest I can push out on the bike is about 185bpm - probably not bad for a fat, ex-smoking nearly-50-year-old like me; and 170 is about the highest I can manage for spells longer that a few minutes.
I was clearly near my lactate threshold as my legs were burning nicely at the end of each push.
You can do 20 minutes
Do 10 mins on a turbo, next time do 11, then 12 etc etc
That's what training is..finding a way to do things you can't do
I can't do 20 mins. I do a 10 as a series of 5ish min efforts where I judge teh downhills as recovery. And the last bit as flat out till I die...
..d
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I can't do 20 mins. I do a 10 as a series of 5ish min efforts where I judge teh downhills as recovery. And the last bit as flat out till I die...
..d
You can do 20 minutes
Do 10 mins on a turbo, next time do 11, then 12 etc etc
That's what training is..finding a way to do things you can't do
I said I can't. I didn't say I wouldn't be able to.
I'm about to get a front fork fitting for my rollers as they are being 'interesting' when trying to ride them. Or I am out of practice.
..d
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Race cross and hit the turbo for lots of interval sessions, you WILL be faster next year.
You're on. Just hunting for a suitable frame for the cross bike I'm going to put together..
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Nice one :thumbsup:
What League are you looking at doing?
For the record my training for the next 2 weeks is riding up bloody big mountains in the alps with a couple of short walks on the rest days (chilling outside a franch cafe as I write this deciding on my route for tommorow ;D)
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For the record my training for the next 2 weeks is riding up bloody big mountains in the alps with a couple of short walks on the rest days (chilling outside a franch cafe as I write this deciding on my route for tommorow ;D)
Let me be the first to say; Git! ;)
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Let me be the first to say; Git! ;)
Did the Medeleine this morning 26Km uphill, nearly 2 hours to cover just over 18 miles from my hotel, I'm definitely more a Rouleur than a Grimpeur.
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Let me be the first to say; Git! ;)
Did the Medeleine this morning 26Km uphill, nearly 2 hours to cover just over 18 miles from my hotel, I'm definitely more a Rouleur than a Grimpeur.
Did the Knapp last night as part of a group of 6. Got dropped going up to Longforgan (a bad start). Got dropped again through Knapp, got dropped again through Littleton and was cramping badly. Joined up at the main road. despite cramp pushed hard on the front to the top of the hill. Fast rotations back to Birkhill but I jumped for the sprint waaaay to early (by several hundred metres - oops).
My legs hurt now. A few more weeks of this and I'll be a lot fitter and lighter.
..d
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Nice one :thumbsup:
What League are you looking at doing?
For the record my training for the next 2 weeks is riding up bloody big mountains in the alps with a couple of short walks on the rest days (chilling outside a franch cafe as I write this deciding on my route for tommorow ;D)
New central region league, won't make the first race at Hillingdon tho'.
Frame has been found, just waiting for the funds to clear and it should be posted to me.
LBS primed ready to make me some wheels and obtain other bits etc.
Dismount practice has started. Discovered that looser SPDs are a good idea. Have had some amusing "shit, I'm still attached to the bike!" type moments (these involve frantic hopping, sometimes including falling over). Haven't managed a running remount yet.
Going to have to put together a nice training programme to get me at least sort of ready to race in November.
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Dismount practice has started. Discovered that looser SPDs are a good idea. Have had some amusing "shit, I'm still attached to the bike!" type moments (these involve frantic hopping, sometimes including falling over). Haven't managed a running remount yet.
It's the second foot that is the problem... Unclip first, swing leg over saddle, step through the gap twixt attached leg and frame and hit the ground running as you unclip the foot [1] and pick up the bike...
I must get out and practise as well..
..d
[1] or collapse in a carefully positioned crumpled heap.
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I'm just starting to get it now, yup-step through the gap, i've got that now- before I was trying to bring my leg around the other side.
Can't do it at any sort of speed yet.
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It was reading this thread that got me started with cyclocross. Got the bike, got the first race out of the way (really heavy mud mixed with leaves, it was slooooow), next one tomorrow.
Just getting into it this season, hopefully I'll put a bit more into it next year. It's hard but oddly fun. There's a bit of falling off involved, thankfully the probability of falling appears to be proportional to the softness of the ground.
My dismount is pretty good now, the remount is improving but still a little duff. Passable under ideal conditions, terrible in challenging terrain or when someone is watching.
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I'm about to have a go at 2x20 on the Turbo. Reckon I should be aiming for 200W or so - I know I can push that out for 30 mins. Don't want to overdo it as I wasn't training for a while after hurting my back so I will see how I feel at that before trying anything harder.
Powertap is filthy, got my hands very dirty putting the turbo tyre on. Bloody winter. ::-)
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I'm about to have a go at 2x20 on the Turbo. Reckon I should be aiming for 200W or so - I know I can push that out for 30 mins.
Ow! ::-)
First 20 was fine. Second was painful. Did my push-ups right after.
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First RP lap of the year.
Bloody freezing.
27m45s (23.45kph).
HRav = 172bpm (including there and back)
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Any imposed loads will have some training effect but to maximise your time spent training an understanding of the physiology helps you to see the effect each type of riding has. It is all about balancing quantity and quality. Peter Keen was the physiologist behind Boardman and then as Performance Director of BC a key player in the the success of British cycling . A trawl of the net has found this article, well worth a read. It explains the fundamentals to any cycling improvement.
http://www.southdownvelo.org.uk/pages/howdoi/hrm-levels.pdf
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Was it something I said I seem to have killed this thread, has anyone read the link was it useful.
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thankfully the probability of falling appears to be proportional to the softness of the ground.
I was wrong about this. I hadn't considered frozen rutted mud.
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Was it something I said I seem to have killed this thread, has anyone read the link was it useful.
It looks very interesting but am going to come back to it and read it properly when I've got time.
Thanks.
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Was it something I said I seem to have killed this thread, has anyone read the link was it useful.
I'd like to try a more structured approach to training this season so It'll probably be useful.