Author Topic: Brake pads (Read 4002 times)

jhob · « **on:** 27 October, 2015, 05:43:26 pm »

It's time to change my brake pads. For the last 6 years I've used Kool Stop salmons, which I've been very happy with. They wear quite fast but do seem to have good stopping power in the wet.

Seeing as I have to change the lot I thought I would just review my decision to use them in case there was a better option available these days.

Should I stick with the salmons or go with something else (swissstop etc)?

Rims are Exal XR2 with Shimano 105 5700 calipers and levers.

I'm more concerned with stopping power in the wet than I am with high pad wear rate, and I'd rather a pad wore down quickly than the rim.

sojournermike · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 October, 2015, 11:44:08 pm »

Salmons seem fine to me.

Mike

phantasmagoriana · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 October, 2015, 07:49:51 am »

I've had Swissstop green on my summer bike this year, and have been so impressed I'm moving the other bikes to them too.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 October, 2015, 07:57:30 am »

green swisstops are the best pad I've used, but they are pricy.

Aunt Maud · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 October, 2015, 08:00:22 am »

I have Swiss Stop Green on two classic steel bikes with aluminium rims and I rate them highly.

jhob · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 October, 2015, 08:33:05 am »

Can anyone who has used both koolstop salmon and swisstop green comment on which they found to be the better, particularly in the wet?

jsabine · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 October, 2015, 08:35:17 am »

No, because I haven't tried the swisstops, but I can unhelpfully confirm that I too remain very happy with salmons ...

Biggsy · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 October, 2015, 12:34:16 pm »

Quote from: jhob on 28 October, 2015, 08:33:05 am

Can anyone who has used both koolstop salmon and swisstop green comment on which they found to be the better, particularly in the wet?

I have used both. I'm afraid I don't remember which was best in the wet, but I gave up on Swisstop Greens because they picked up more grit and therefore would have worn down my rims more quickly. I'm now happy to stick with Koolstop salmons, as for me they work well in everything but heavy rain, and I don't ride much in heavy rain anyway.

zigzag · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 October, 2015, 01:14:11 pm »

ime, salmons are a bit softer/spongier than swisstops and more prone to squeaking, braking in wet is very similar. another half decent brake pad is from discobrakes, far better than any tektro/shimano/etc. used them going down the mountain passes in the rain and was always confident i could stop when needed.
overall i prefer disc brakes in wet as they keep the bike cleaner and slow it down immediately.

Kim · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 October, 2015, 05:58:10 pm »

I quite like the KoolStop dual-compound pads (slightly better dry performance than salmon), though they seem to collect a bit more grit than pure salmon. They all squeak like a bastard if your brakes are that way inclined.

Not tried the SwissStop.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 October, 2015, 07:01:39 pm »

Quote from: jhob on 28 October, 2015, 08:33:05 am

Can anyone who has used both koolstop salmon and swisstop green comment on which they found to be the better, particularly in the wet?

Swisstop, no contest in the wet. But yes, you do need to clean the bits out now and again.

Samuel D · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 October, 2015, 02:27:51 pm »

Any suggestions for best pads in the dry?

Biggsy · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 October, 2015, 02:31:02 pm »

Quote from: Samuel D on 29 October, 2015, 02:27:51 pm

Any suggestions for best pads in the dry?

Koolstop salmon or dual-compound.

Kim · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 October, 2015, 02:33:38 pm »

Quote from: Biggsy on 29 October, 2015, 02:31:02 pm

Quote from: Samuel D on 29 October, 2015, 02:27:51 pm
Any suggestions for best pads in the dry?

Koolstop salmon or dual-compound.

Logically the KoolStop black ought to be better than either, but being BRITISH, I value wet weather performance too much to have bothered to try them.

tatanab · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 October, 2015, 03:09:02 pm »

I tried Koolstop in both mixed and salmon flavours some years ago, at least 12. I have not looked back since changing to Swisstop green. I cannot recall what the Koolstop were like, it is too long ago, but obviously I was impressed by the Swisstop because I changed my entire stable over to them pretty quickly. Some people say they are expensive, but they only seem that way because they are routinely priced for 4 off. Sometimes I pick bits of rim out of them but that depends on the rims I happen to be using. I cannot recall which are good and which are not. I seem to remember that the worst for picking bits of rim from were stock Shimano blocks.

phantasmagoriana · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 October, 2015, 03:15:53 pm »

I find the Swissstops collect less grit than the Koolstops - I was using triple compound Koolstops, though, so I'm not sure how they compare to the salmons.

Biggsy · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 October, 2015, 03:19:17 pm »

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if black Koolstops aren't really much different from generic bog standard compounds from other manufacturers, that don't brake any better and pick up more grit. It's rare to find any grit or metal in my salmons, unlike everything else I've ever tried.

Anyway I recommend salmons for the dry because they're very good in the dry, regardless of what they were designed for. Braking tends to be most excellent after they've "conditioned" the rims (which I think means depositing some brake pad compound, not just powderising the aluminium rim, which by itself is counter-productive. It can take quite a while with new or newly cleaned rims).

Wascally Weasel · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 October, 2015, 03:34:14 pm »

I've used both - currently on Salmons but am going to switch back to Swissstop as I think they'll work out cheaper, I'm going through the Salmons at less than 2,000 miles.

jamesld8 · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 October, 2015, 04:28:10 pm »

Just got a set of green Swisstop, fitted to rear and was going try today but glad I didn`t as very wet and very muddy lanes ridden, ideal for disc brakes

so used winter disc braked bike instead

Could possibly have made considerable inroads into rim pads today water, grit, mud, steep descents, leaves

Just autumnal really !

sojournermike · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 October, 2015, 06:07:38 pm »

Quote from: Wascally Weasel on 29 October, 2015, 03:34:14 pm

I've used both - currently on Salmons but am going to switch back to Swissstop as I think they'll work out cheaper, I'm going through the Salmons at less than 2,000 miles.

You brake too much

jhob · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 October, 2015, 08:03:55 pm »

Just bought a set of 4 swisstop blue pads, most reviewers seemed to rate them higher than green so I'll be interested to see how they compare to koolstop salmons.

Found them for £18 posted which wasn't too bad.

jamesld8 · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 October, 2015, 07:08:30 am »

Quote from: jhob on 29 October, 2015, 08:03:55 pm

Just bought a set of 4 swisstop blue pads, most reviewers seemed to rate them higher than green so I'll be interested to see how they compare to koolstop salmons.

Found them for £18 posted which wasn't too bad.

+1 Swissstops aren`t OTT price wise given that 4 supplied--admittedly when can buy entire brake sets for a tenner more it does start to look an expensive option

jamesld8 · « **Reply #22 on:** 30 October, 2015, 03:41:59 pm »

Quote from: jamesld8 on 30 October, 2015, 07:08:30 am

Quote from: jhob on 29 October, 2015, 08:03:55 pm
Just bought a set of 4 swisstop blue pads, most reviewers seemed to rate them higher than green so I'll be interested to see how they compare to koolstop salmons.

Found them for £18 posted which wasn't too bad.

+1 Swissstops aren`t OTT price wise given that 4 supplied--admittedly when can buy entire brake sets for a tenner more it does start to look an expensive option

Rather disappointed---just did couple hours ride, damp roads no rain with rear green S/stop. For first mile or so brakes were absolutely amazing powerful

BUT after the pads had bedded in a bit, rims a bit less clean then brake power really not much better than black Aztec pads previous.

As an observational expt I tried to see when actually riding / braking how much flex there was in the caliper arms by observing when applying brakes. From what I could see once a certain travel point on lever had been achieved then all further lever movement was just a flex in the calipers, so the extra force I was applying was no longer fully resulting in extra force at the rim / pad contact. So stiffer calipers should make for a better brake --not unsurprising !!

JonBuoy · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 October, 2015, 04:12:41 pm »

Quote from: jamesld8 on 30 October, 2015, 03:41:59 pm

As an observational expt I tried to see when actually riding / braking how much flex there was in the caliper arms by observing when applying brakes. From what I could see once a certain travel point on lever had been achieved then all further lever movement was just a flex in the calipers, so the extra force I was applying was no longer fully resulting in extra force at the rim / pad contact. So stiffer calipers should make for a better brake --not unsurprising !!

If I understand what you are saying I am not sure that that is strictly true.

Something is flexing the caliper arms and that flex is a measure of the force that you are applying between the rim and the brake block. The problem is that you cannot 'see' how much force is at that point in the system as the rim/pad interface is stiff so does not distort too much whereas the caliper arms are less stiff so you can see the distortion in them. That is not to say that stiffer arms would not give you better feel, less lever travel etc.

Biggsy · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 October, 2015, 04:39:02 pm »

Quote from: jamesld8 on 30 October, 2015, 03:41:59 pm

As an observational expt I tried to see when actually riding / braking how much flex there was in the caliper arms by observing when applying brakes. From what I could see once a certain travel point on lever had been achieved then all further lever movement was just a flex in the calipers, so the extra force I was applying was no longer fully resulting in extra force at the rim / pad contact. So stiffer calipers should make for a better brake --not unsurprising !!

Unless you could actually see the callipers flexing, I reckon much of the lever travel "for nothing" is down to what's happening with the cable (outer and inner)*. Anyway the pads must fully compress before calliper flex can be an issue, because the pads are less stiff, and you only brake hard enough for that in an emergency (or for fun!). So I think flex is an over-rated factor with all but the very crappiest brakes.

* Especially (but not only) if you didn't pre-stretch/bed-in the cable after it was first fitted by pulling the lever outrageously hard with all your strength.