Author Topic: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?  (Read 37713 times)

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #75 on: 20 February, 2023, 10:46:36 pm »
Facts and (post today) supposition
ACP stated 8000 of which 2500 reserved for French nationals.
Availability on the pre-registration mechanism was 7600.
As @ 18 Feb, 5820 have pre-registered, of whom (estimate) 1300 French: 1780 remain shown as available.
Assume 1000 of those will be kept for French (and another 200 released on 27 May - for French only).
...................
Opportunity for non-FRA riders to pre-register is now 780:

Somewhat tighter for us slower riders and especially tight for French riders who have "delayed" their pre-registration, (with a 300 or 200 longest BRM), only 35% (611 652) of the current available are 90h. The 84h places are only at 41% taken compared to 83% for 84h & 87% for 90h . I would expect some 84h places will have to be transferred to 90h at some stage. The G - L groups have a 350 place capacity but M - U only 270 so some spare room (at the expense of a fatter bulge).

Specials not much more than 50% so my cunning plan is to research bents, buy one, learn to ride from zero, master a SR on it and train up for 1200, how hard can that be? (maybe a 2027 plan?)

PS: Someone is working late at ACP, at midnight the available places increased by about 60, presumably due to the ongoing "validation" of entries, people not paying for their pre-registration after 3 days, mismatch in identification / longest BRM details? Odd that people pre-registering are making  so many mistakes, deliberate??, hope not, but it is a not so funny world these days.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #76 on: 21 February, 2023, 08:27:23 am »
Thanks for this info about specials. I was wondering what the situation was and hasn't been able to see from the official site.
I've only got a counting 200 so that sounds promising.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #77 on: 21 February, 2023, 08:44:40 am »
Thanks for this info about specials. I was wondering what the situation was and hasn't been able to see from the official site.
I've only got a 200 so that sounds promising.

ACP have published several charts & tables of data, after each "longest BRM" group of pre-registrations. The 400 (and previous groups) data (as at today?) has been published on the French version PBP site https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/vague-des-brm-400/

It includes the pre-registrations by start group. For specials the F Group (90h) has 158 pre-registrations of 270 available and the V (84h) Group has 14 of 50. The data has only just appeared so Mr Google is translating it for me just now

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #78 on: 21 February, 2023, 09:18:44 am »
does a Brompton count as a special?

Reckon it could be fun.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #79 on: 21 February, 2023, 11:55:07 am »
Hi All

Considering that only later start times will be available for those of us with 'only' a 300 from last year next Saturday, would there be a major risk in not pre-registering now and completing the SR series of rides and registering at a later date when places open up due to drop outs etc. hoping for an earlier start time slot. Otherwise, is there any way to pre-register now and change your start time at a later date.
Regards

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #80 on: 21 February, 2023, 12:19:43 pm »
does a Brompton count as a special?

Reckon it could be fun.

Yes

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #81 on: 21 February, 2023, 12:44:43 pm »
does a Brompton count as a special?

Reckon it could be fun.

Yes

Yes but Velo Speciale is self-identified anyway e.g. some small-wheelers choose VS90 but HK and I rode in the normal 90hr and 84hr groups on our small-wheelers. There were standard big-wheelers in VS90 at PBP19.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #82 on: 21 February, 2023, 12:46:21 pm »
Hi All

Considering that only later start times will be available for those of us with 'only' a 300 from last year next Saturday, would there be a major risk in not pre-registering now and completing the SR series of rides and registering at a later date when places open up due to drop outs etc. hoping for an earlier start time slot. Otherwise, is there any way to pre-register now and change your start time at a later date.
Regards

We have no idea what ACP will do this time round. Last time, entrants could shift groups after pre-registration but that option got closed down at some point.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #83 on: 23 February, 2023, 01:08:30 am »
Hi All

Considering that only later start times will be available for those of us with 'only' a 300 from last year next Saturday, would there be a major risk in not pre-registering now and completing the SR series of rides and registering at a later date when places open up due to drop outs etc. hoping for an earlier start time slot. Otherwise, is there any way to pre-register now and change your start time at a later date.
Regards

I would say a pre-registration in the hand (on Saturday) is worth a hundred on the never never. There is considerable risk of registrations going French only after the 300s as the non-French will be close to their 5500 limit and beyond that is all green field stuff with (as LW&B says) no-one sure what ACP will do. There is no guarantee any released places/times will be reallocated and if they are might be French only if they are still below their 2500 target? ACP have talked a lot about increasing the French proportion.

I know a couple of 4 times PBPers who went for a late 90h start ( the 21:00) in 2019 and reckon it was the best PBP they had done, behind the bulge most of the way, no-one passing them , lots of self esteem building passing other riders, the timings just worked well for them. Headwise for you it is going to be better to have your pre-reg sorted now so you can just get on with the qualifications rather than waiting some weeks/months.... and having your enthusiasm wane?

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #84 on: 23 February, 2023, 07:18:16 am »
Since I saw that PBP 2023 was going to have 8500 places, straight away I thought that back in 2015, it was said that they was running at max capacity of around 6500 and could not cope with increasing the numbers in future years.

In 2019, it started if I recall with about 6500 places, then at some point after June, created an additional 1000+ places, which seemed to cause confusion as to who could grab them but it was solely for riders with no pre-qualification but had done the qualifiers but could not get one of the 6500 initial places. These additional 1000+ places was to fill in the gaps of riders who failed to qualify etc and also a few extra places to cover for even more drop outs etc.

From what I understand, there is always about 1000+ who fail to start and that is why they could add those in extra places as a lot of riders had failed to qualify who had preregistered etc

I think that this year, the PBP organisation is planning ahead, created 8500 places, they know 1000+ will not start and this will drop the number to of riders to a manageable number and at the same time remove the last minute frenzy of people grabbing places when they release more places, which will them make it to easier to know what the starting figures are end of June so they can sort the finances out,  catering out, printing jerseys etc rather than last minute in July early August.

Basically, I have a feeling that there will be no more additional places going to be released around end of June. It is a big leap from 6500 riders which was deemed manageable to 8500 riders. It must be about a 30% increase.

But, it's just a feeling and thinking behind the scenes of why 8500 initial places but I could be wrong.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #85 on: 23 February, 2023, 09:18:33 am »
Qualifying events during March could be interesting as there is speculation that a new Beast From The East is likely.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #86 on: 23 February, 2023, 12:11:01 pm »
Since I saw that PBP 2023 was going to have 8500 places, straight away I thought that back in 2015, it was said that they was running at max capacity of around 6500 and could not cope with increasing the numbers in future years.

In 2019, it started if I recall with about 6500 places, then at some point after June, created an additional 1000+ places, which seemed to cause confusion as to who could grab them but it was solely for riders with no pre-qualification but had done the qualifiers but could not get one of the 6500 initial places. These additional 1000+ places was to fill in the gaps of riders who failed to qualify etc and also a few extra places to cover for even more drop outs etc.

From what I understand, there is always about 1000+ who fail to start and that is why they could add those in extra places as a lot of riders had failed to qualify who had preregistered etc

I think that this year, the PBP organisation is planning ahead, created 8500 places, they know 1000+ will not start and this will drop the number to of riders to a manageable number and at the same time remove the last minute frenzy of people grabbing places when they release more places, which will them make it to easier to know what the starting figures are end of June so they can sort the finances out,  catering out, printing jerseys etc rather than last minute in July early August.
Basically, I have a feeling that there will be no more additional places going to be released around end of June. It is a big leap from 6500 riders which was deemed manageable to 8500 riders. It must be about a 30% increase.
But, it's just a feeling and thinking behind the scenes of why 8500 initial places but I could be wrong.
Hope you'll not mind if I offer some accuracy, inter alia drawing on Page 1 of this thread.
Rule 3 specifies 8000 places (not 8500) of which 2500 would be reserved for French nationals.
Before pre-registration opened the available places in the 80/90/84 table summed 7600. I have speculated upthread on how the 'spare' 400 might be deployed and how ACP will manage their aim to allow 2500 French to register.
What actually happened in 2019 was that the places 'ran out' in March during the count down of those whose longest ride was a 300km in 2018. And then there was lots of Gallic sadness because loads of French riders seemed likely to be excluded from 'their' ride. So the ACP miraculously 'found' another 850 starts slots (started 30 minutes earlier on Sunday afternoon and added a start time on Monday dawn). Starts still ran out (by 10 Apr)) but were freed up in June by pre-registrants failure to register with at least 3 qualifying BRMs. And slots in early start waves, vacated by the 'fails' were also freed up (go and look at the 2019 threads on this)
I think @LWaB has suggested over 1000 so failed, and in 2019 those slots were made available to non-(pre-)registered aspirants, provided they had at least 3 qualifying BRMs to submit.
@Ivo said "The ACP over the past years tried to persuade people to start in the 84 hour group.
On Saturday [7 Jan], Faburel [ACP main man] stated quite clearly that he expects that everyone who qualifies can start but that those who didn't pre-qualify run the chance of missing their preferred starting slot. I understand this as if you haven't pre-qualified, then there's a chance that you won't get a 90h starting spot but have to do with 84h."
ACP will want the ride filled (ie registered) to capacity, with the expectation that 10% won't start built into that 'capacity' estimate. There's little scope for 84 waves (of 300?) to be shifted to 90 on Sunday evening. ACP did that last time and the 2023 design mimics the 2019 revision.
As a rider myself without a BRM last year (but with new hip, replacing the one that rode round without much complaint in August 2019) I shall be poised on 20 Jun with a BRM SR complete and homologated.
Registration closes midnight CEST 2 July: ACP then have plenty of time to sort things out with a settled figure of registered/starters.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #87 on: 23 February, 2023, 02:24:32 pm »
Qualifying events during March could be interesting as there is speculation that a new Beast From The East is likely.

Ignoring the click bait title you’ve quoted; the Met Office say for later March

“In this period, spells of rain or snow, are more likely than earlier in the month, with a low chance that some wintry episodes could be disruptive, though northwestern areas most likely to see the driest conditions. Winds could often be from a northerly or easterly direction, and temperatures are more likely to be below-average than above-average overall, but later in the month, colder air will be fighting against a strengthening sun.”

A low chance wintery episodes will be disruptive.   Lots of ifs and maybes and we all know the further out a forecast the less confident you can be in it.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #88 on: 23 February, 2023, 03:02:05 pm »
Thanks for clarifying - I was assuming from the previous post that the old Willesden 600 was coming back!

mattc

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Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #89 on: 24 February, 2023, 09:06:01 pm »
Thanks for clarifying - I was assuming from the previous post that the old Willesden 600 was coming back!
... and in March!!!  :o
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #90 on: 25 February, 2023, 11:27:22 am »
When I looked at the preregistration page earlier this morning there 600 odd places available for the 90hr start. When I logged back in at 11 to actually preregister myself, there were 811 places with start times available from 17.30.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #91 on: 25 February, 2023, 03:16:45 pm »
A close local friend, who I introduced to audax has pre-registered. I'm toying with the idea of joining him, just for something to try and aim for. Can't pre-reg until 200k slots come up though, but as I'd want an 84hr start I might be ok.

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #92 on: 25 February, 2023, 03:48:58 pm »
When I looked at the preregistration page earlier this morning there 600 odd places available for the 90hr start. When I logged back in at 11 to actually preregister myself, there were 811 places with start times available from 17.30.

You’ll be riding your recumbent?

αdαmsκι

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Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #93 on: 25 February, 2023, 04:22:09 pm »
I'm toying with the idea of joining him,
😱 Not something I thought I'd read
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #94 on: 25 February, 2023, 04:46:32 pm »
A close local friend, who I introduced to audax has pre-registered. I'm toying with the idea of joining him, just for something to try and aim for. Can't pre-reg until 200k slots come up though, but as I'd want an 84hr start I might be ok.

Are yow going to Paris?

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #95 on: 25 February, 2023, 05:31:23 pm »
A close local friend, who I introduced to audax has pre-registered. I'm toying with the idea of joining him, just for something to try and aim for. Can't pre-reg until 200k slots come up though, but as I'd want an 84hr start I might be ok.

Are yow going to Paris?

Er yow gowing too?

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #96 on: 25 February, 2023, 05:32:13 pm »
I'm toying with the idea of joining him,
😱 Not something I thought I'd read

The annoying thing is that in order to do so I've actually got to complete some rides

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #97 on: 25 February, 2023, 05:53:11 pm »
Er yow gowing too?

Of course!

The annoying thing is that in order to do so I've actually got to complete some rides

No 5 star luxury at Dolgellau this year then?

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #98 on: 25 February, 2023, 05:57:16 pm »
It wasnt even Dolgellau, it was Machynlleth  ;D ;D ;D :facepalm:

Re: Pbp 2023 - what are the odds?
« Reply #99 on: 25 February, 2023, 09:49:56 pm »
When I looked at the preregistration page earlier this morning there 600 odd places available for the 90hr start. When I logged back in at 11 to actually preregister myself, there were 811 places with start times available from 17.30.

Sneaky, I looked (90% academic interest only) with about 15 minutes till the 300s starting and there was 611 90h places and again early this evening when there was about 450 , I was a bit surprised there had been so few 300s but adding another 200 to the 90h available makes it a bit more respectable but still not the pent up demand I had expected, have we reached peak randonneur? Still a way to go, the ACP report after the 400 Wave said the pre-registrations for the first 3 waves down to 400s were line ball with 2019, perhaps the big rush will come with 200 longest BRM or later?

Still hope for the hopeful, keep riding and never give up! (maybe 85% academic interest now)