Author Topic: Mike Hall RIP  (Read 16432 times)

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2017, 08:12:09 am »
Audax UK does not specify such requirements - there is no bike check on any Auk event I’ve entered. PBP does have a check and sanctions for failing to wear high vis etc when required.

These rules are bound to vary from event to event. The 'profile' of the ride is going to have an influence as well. But this was a race, with live tracking, and some participants were essentially 'professional'.

I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2017, 08:25:03 am »
Jesse's statement of requirements for the next race in March:

They said riders would need to pass a safety check and be required to have two front and two rear lights, a rear red reflector, reflective ankle straps and reflective tape on their bike's crank arms and seat stays.

They will also be required to wear a reflective vest and have their lights on between 4pm and 8am and when visibility is poor.

Is somewhat surprising in that this appears to suggest these basic safety requirements were not in force for this year's race.
So do you think this suggest's the organiser is admitting some laxness in this year's running? If so, he/she should probably be at that hearing - except you say that would be an admission of responsibility. Perhaps you should go, as you seem to be well versed in all the issues?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2017, 01:07:58 pm »
I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Given that Mike gave the talk after the AUK Reunion Dinner last year and some of us were chatting with him late into the night thereafter, any discussion of matters about his tragic death does not surprise me.

The crass insensitivity of some posters is another matter...

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2017, 02:31:54 pm »
Quote
I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Fair point, but long distance unsupported riding or racing is bread and butter to many of us - which is why we ride rando rides - so the story - in this case one with a sad ending - of a person of the stature of Mike who epitomises the ethos of those of us who ride into the dark with only our wits and courage to guide us, is so impelling - wherever we live or ride in the world.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2017, 02:37:10 pm »
Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

LMT

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #80 on: December 24, 2017, 03:00:33 pm »
Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

Agreed.

And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #81 on: December 24, 2017, 04:39:00 pm »
Quote
And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Is there a law saying what is required?

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #82 on: December 24, 2017, 04:49:42 pm »
Quote
And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Is there a law saying what is required?
Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I really don’t think this is an appropriate thread to troll on.

John

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #83 on: December 24, 2017, 04:51:33 pm »
The traffic laws are basically harmonised across the country.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/wheeled-devices/bicycle
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #84 on: December 24, 2017, 05:33:44 pm »
I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Given that Mike gave the talk after the AUK Reunion Dinner last year and some of us were chatting with him late into the night thereafter, any discussion of matters about his tragic death does not surprise me.



We were at the Mersey Roads dinner that night, talking to 24 hour riders. My first 24 was the 100th running of the North Roads in 1998. It stopped fairly soon after that, following a fatality. I can understand how organisers lose heart in the face of that. So I can sympathise with the organisers of this race, either stop, or introduce new rules. Their effectiveness is debatable, but if it makes the organiser feel like running it again, then so be it.

Marshalling the night section of a '24' provides an insight into rider visibility, and driver behaviour. But it's in a Time Trial, albeit one that has AUK points. So I'll quite understand if people say it's irrelevant to Audax, with it being a race and all.

My sympathies to Mike's family at this time, and also to those who knew 'Micky' Ina.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90535154/Cycling-community-mourns-loss-of-Japanese-rider-killed-near-Twizel

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2017, 12:37:39 am »
Quote
Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I was asking if the poster knew what laws there were, so please don't troll if you don't know the answer - it's rude.

C-3PO

  • Human-cyborg relations
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2017, 02:28:39 am »
Quote
Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I was asking if the poster knew what laws there were, so please don't troll if you don't know the answer - it's rude.

<cough!>

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #87 on: December 26, 2017, 09:03:50 am »
Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

Sorry, someone hasn't been paying attention at the back.  What's PPE?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #88 on: December 26, 2017, 09:08:39 am »
Personal Protective Equipment - in my workplace, typically hi-viz vest, hard hat and safety boots.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

alfapete

  • Oh dear
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #89 on: December 26, 2017, 10:42:02 am »
Personal Protective Equipment - in my workplace, typically hi-viz vest, hard hat and safety boots.

...or in mine: gloves, mask and glasses.
alfapete - that's the Pete that drives the Alfa

Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
    • Reading Cycling Club
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #90 on: December 27, 2017, 10:22:37 am »
The wearing of hi viz and reflective clothing is an interesting subject. My personal opinion is that it's effectiveness like helmets and use of daytime lights is overstated. Like most things in this field these items fall into the "well they must help. Just look at them". There is some evidence that overdoing the lights and viability equipment make you more likely to cause road incidents because drivers are distracted and as any driving instructor knows you steer with your eyes.

As yet I think we are all in the same position and do not know the full details of the incident. Let us wait and see what the outcome is and hope that the outcome this is supported by evidence.

BB
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2018, 02:33:20 pm »
Anna is seeking help with costs of attending the inquest.
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/mikehall2018

Donated.
2018 targets: Survive
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2018, 08:02:20 pm »
Blimey - that got upto £6k quick!

Thanks Mr Tween.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #93 on: August 31, 2018, 11:55:23 am »
It was 8K plus just now. I have no idea how long the inquest is likely to last but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.
My events: 17th Feb 2019 Willesden Reliability;  6th Apr 2019 3Down London - New Forest; 30th Jun 2019 2 Audaxes from Maidenhead;

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2018, 03:57:39 pm »
Quote
but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2018, 04:05:54 pm »
Quote
but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

Generally, if there's cars and bikes involved, one of them is not acting safely. It's why civilised countries have presumed liability.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2018, 04:12:26 pm »
Quote
but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

As I understand it, the purpose of the lawyer will be to represent the family at the inquest. They ask questions on the families behalf and assist them in establishing what happened, as well as explaining the processes to the family. It’s not about compo.

I think that’s right anyway.

John

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2018, 04:25:37 pm »
Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2018, 07:35:34 pm »
Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.
Lord Danesfort was the first to try back in 1934. https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2015/08/cycling-accidents-and-presumed-liability-uk-vs-europe/

CTC / CyclingUK are still campaigning for it - god knows whether it stands any hope in hell, as the UK is still pretty car-obsessed.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Mike Hall RIP
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2018, 10:00:26 pm »
"Australian coroners are responsible for investigating and determining the cause of death for those cases reported to them."

I get most of my knowledge about Coroners Courts from such as Midsummer Murders, and as far as I know there is not an opportunity to cross examine witnesses, so the need for Mike's family to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer is a question.