Mike Hall RIP

[Exit Stage Left]

Audax UK does not specify such requirements - there is no bike check on any Auk event I’ve entered. PBP does have a check and sanctions for failing to wear high vis etc when required.

These rules are bound to vary from event to event. The 'profile' of the ride is going to have an influence as well. But this was a race, with live tracking, and some participants were essentially 'professional'.

I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

[mattc]

Jesse's statement of requirements for the next race in March:

They said riders would need to pass a safety check and be required to have two front and two rear lights, a rear red reflector, reflective ankle straps and reflective tape on their bike's crank arms and seat stays.

They will also be required to wear a reflective vest and have their lights on between 4pm and 8am and when visibility is poor.

Is somewhat surprising in that this appears to suggest these basic safety requirements were not in force for this year's race.

So do you think this suggest's the organiser is admitting some laxness in this year's running? If so, he/she should probably be at that hearing - except you say that would be an admission of responsibility. Perhaps you should go, as you seem to be well versed in all the issues?

[hellymedic]

I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Given that Mike gave the talk after the AUK Reunion Dinner last year and some of us were chatting with him late into the night thereafter, any discussion of matters about his tragic death does not surprise me.

The crass insensitivity of some posters is another matter...

[Charlie Polecat]

I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Fair point, but long distance unsupported riding or racing is bread and butter to many of us - which is why we ride rando rides - so the story - in this case one with a sad ending - of a person of the stature of Mike who epitomises the ethos of those of us who ride into the dark with only our wits and courage to guide us, is so impelling - wherever we live or ride in the world.

[hellymedic]

Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

[LMT]

Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

Agreed.

And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

[Charlie Polecat]

And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Is there a law saying what is required?

[JohnL]

And anything above what is lawfully required should be down to the rider.

Is there a law saying what is required?

Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I really don’t think this is an appropriate thread to troll on.

John

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The traffic laws are basically harmonised across the country.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/wheeled-devices/bicycle

[Exit Stage Left]

I'll be interested to see what arises from the inquest. But this was a race in Australia, and not an Audax in the UK. So it's surprising to find it on these pages, given the sensitivities.

Given that Mike gave the talk after the AUK Reunion Dinner last year and some of us were chatting with him late into the night thereafter, any discussion of matters about his tragic death does not surprise me.

We were at the Mersey Roads dinner that night, talking to 24 hour riders. My first 24 was the 100th running of the North Roads in 1998. It stopped fairly soon after that, following a fatality. I can understand how organisers lose heart in the face of that. So I can sympathise with the organisers of this race, either stop, or introduce new rules. Their effectiveness is debatable, but if it makes the organiser feel like running it again, then so be it.

Marshalling the night section of a '24' provides an insight into rider visibility, and driver behaviour. But it's in a Time Trial, albeit one that has AUK points. So I'll quite understand if people say it's irrelevant to Audax, with it being a race and all.

My sympathies to Mike's family at this time, and also to those who knew 'Micky' Ina.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90535154/Cycling-community-mourns-loss-of-Japanese-rider-killed-near-Twizel

[Charlie Polecat]

Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I was asking if the poster knew what laws there were, so please don't troll if you don't know the answer - it's rude.

[C-3PO]

Of course there’s a law in most (all?) civilised countries.

I was asking if the poster knew what laws there were, so please don't troll if you don't know the answer - it's rude.

<cough!>

[Delph Cyclist]

Any belief that any form of PPE will protect or defend you from a dozy or homicidal driver is sadly totally delusional.

Sorry, someone hasn't been paying attention at the back.  What's PPE?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Personal Protective Equipment - in my workplace, typically hi-viz vest, hard hat and safety boots.

[alfapete]

Personal Protective Equipment - in my workplace, typically hi-viz vest, hard hat and safety boots.

...or in mine: gloves, mask and glasses.

[Bianchi Boy]

The wearing of hi viz and reflective clothing is an interesting subject. My personal opinion is that it's effectiveness like helmets and use of daytime lights is overstated. Like most things in this field these items fall into the "well they must help. Just look at them". There is some evidence that overdoing the lights and viability equipment make you more likely to cause road incidents because drivers are distracted and as any driving instructor knows you steer with your eyes.

As yet I think we are all in the same position and do not know the full details of the incident. Let us wait and see what the outcome is and hope that the outcome this is supported by evidence.

BB

[SoreTween]

Anna is seeking help with costs of attending the inquest.
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/mikehall2018

Donated.

[mattc]

Blimey - that got upto £6k quick!

Thanks Mr Tween.

[ian_oli]

It was 8K plus just now. I have no idea how long the inquest is likely to last but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

[Charlie Polecat]

but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

[L CC]

but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

Generally, if there's cars and bikes involved, one of them is not acting safely. It's why civilised countries have presumed liability.

[JohnL]

but I reckon she will want to spend a lot more on a decent lawyer than she has budgeted for.

I certainly hope Mike's family gets some kind of closure, but I'm not sure if you are implying there is a case to be answered - thus the need for a 'decent lawyer'?

Regretfully, people get killed on the roads all the time - unfortunately it's what happens when bikes and cars are on the same roads at the same time - without needing to rush to a legal settlement.

As I understand it, the purpose of the lawyer will be to represent the family at the inquest. They ask questions on the families behalf and assist them in establishing what happened, as well as explaining the processes to the family. It’s not about compo.

I think that’s right anyway.

John

[Charlie Polecat]

Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.

[mattc]

Fair enough.

Does anyone know what if any steps are being taken to enact PL in Britain?

In the states it wouldn't have a hope in hell passing.

Lord Danesfort was the first to try back in 1934. https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2015/08/cycling-accidents-and-presumed-liability-uk-vs-europe/

CTC / CyclingUK are still campaigning for it - god knows whether it stands any hope in hell, as the UK is still pretty car-obsessed.

[Charlie Polecat]

"Australian coroners are responsible for investigating and determining the cause of death for those cases reported to them."

I get most of my knowledge about Coroners Courts from such as Midsummer Murders, and as far as I know there is not an opportunity to cross examine witnesses, so the need for Mike's family to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer is a question.