'First back' & Strava links: not in the spirit of Audax?

[Ivan]

I've won a few Audaxes.

That's the beauty of DIY.

I've got the lanterne rouge on all of mine, what am I doing wrong?

[Ian H]

I've won a few Audaxes.

That's the beauty of DIY.

I've got the lanterne rouge on all of mine, what am I doing wrong?

The optimist/pessimist conundrum.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I've been first to the first control and very nearly last to the arrivee on the same event. That was a good day out.

[alotronic]

Some good comments in there. Good time not absolute time, but for me part of having a good time is enjoying the riding and pacing.

I pretty much know my place and am comfortable with it. I do like to know fastest times but only so I can be impressed. I am happy that there are people who can ride that fast for that long and - as I haven't got a snowflakes chance in hell of competing with them - I really don't care if they brag or not. What always interests me a lot more is their experience. I don't know if you remember that account of the 'winner' of the last PBP. It wasn't the winning it was the way he did it that was compelling and enjoyable to read about.

The spirit of Audax is to enjoy a ride and the letter of the law is to finish it inside a time window with upper and lower limits. I am not going to dictate what constitutes another's enjoyment. As long as there is no official timing and so on I am happy to let the fast guys and gals pretend it's a race.

I totally understand why it irks people, and yes I kinda agree that if they wanted a real test they might do a long individual time trial or a TCR, but heh. I do remember on my failed PBP getting demoralised by the Euro club trains with fast bikes and no luggage and sleep vans and support and thinking that wasn't the spirit of Audax, but I have to accept it's just the way that they do things and is well within the rules. If they enjoyed it, well, chapeau!

I got to a control second once. Felt pretty good, briefly. My favourite ride was the first Richard Ellis when his family came out to the controls, that stuck with me. My favourite riders are the nutters who ride fixed, or hybrids, or elliptigos, or pashleys, or the first timer, or the young 'un, or the one doubling their previous distance, and even occasionally the very fast ones.

Strava... well I find it motivating. I am 'friends' with a lot of the ACME crew and a few others and it really helps me get out on the bike when I see that they have been putting in the rides. I do compare average speeds and I do like to compete on that when I am in the mood (maybe one ride in 10) but as most of them are younger than me it's a game I most often lose! And it is a great training diary, though connect would be good enough for that I guess.

[grams]

There's nothing inherently performance related about using Strava. The vast majority of Strava users don't view it as the must-get-KOM tool non-Strava users seem to. For most, it's just a useful way to log and track and share rides.

[telstarbox]

It's a very useful service (the free version is better than some paid apps). The leaderboards and KOM/QOM chasing are entirely optional.

Btw this third-party plugin will overlay some or all of your Strava activities on a map, which is pretty cool. http://www.jonathanokeeffe.com/strava/map.php

[psyclist]

There's nothing inherently performance related about using Strava. The vast majority of Strava users don't view it as the must-get-KOM tool non-Strava users seem to. For most, it's just a useful way to log and track and share rides.

I fully agree. In addition to logging and sharing my own rides, I find it highly useful to use Strava to see what rides others in my cycling network have been doing, both from an information perspective and for motivation to get out myself.

Having just helped out for the first time on a 400 last weekend, it was interesting to see the mood of riders across the whole spectrum. The faster riders tended to come into controls looking fresher than many of the slower riders, but the 'smile-factor' was evenly distributed across the field.

Everything that I see about Audax rides aligns to the personal endeavour. The only competition I see is in points accumulation, not comparative speed.

[whosatthewheel]

There's nothing inherently performance related about using Strava. The vast majority of Strava users don't view it as the must-get-KOM tool non-Strava users seem to. For most, it's just a useful way to log and track and share rides.

This.

I use it as an archive of roads and places I have ridden... interesting to look at times up various Alpine and not so alpine climbs. There are some nice features, for instance yesterday I rode to work (admittedly I raced to work) with (read against) a guy I never met before... Strava automatically links the two rides and gives you the option to get in contact with the rider in question... it saves the hassle of being sociable, exchanging names and all these formalities that are seen as being weird in this day and age... 

It shouldn't be taken seriously for performance comparisons, as the data are neither reliable nor necessarily genuine.

[Phil W]

I presume you mean the posts in the Audax FB group. 

You'll note from the replies they get that no one gives a stuff about any of that.  Just ride your audax events you want, enjoy the scenery and company and challenge, and ignore the other stuff.  In the days of yore the only people they could bore with "first back" exclamations were themselves.

[Ian H]

I presume you mean the posts in the Audax FB group. 

The FB group has more members than AUK.  By no means all AUK members are on FB. 

I suspect at least half of those on the FB group are not AUK members.  Perhaps they need friendly guidance in the ways of the randonneur.  A few who become too objectionable are taken outside and shot removed from the group.

[Exit Stage Left]

Although Audaxes aren't races, there is no formal 'non-competitive' policy in AUK. Any non-competitive 'Ethos' is a tacit understanding by social groups within Audax.

If there are fast riders who don't mix with those riders with a non-competitive ethos, then they won't pick up that Audax Spirit, as that only exists as an understanding among 'non competitive' riders.

Those faster riders may be more focused towards structured training, where public disclosure of performance is a motivational tool. I think that's truer of fitness cyclists, as racers tend to play their cards closer to their chests.

It might be becoming more of a thing as younger riders, inspired by Transcontinental rides, come to Audax. Randonee in the US was boosted by the idea of PBP as the RAAM you could do yourself.

[Bikeabilityman]

I think the move to mudguardless, bike packing machines shows us where Audax is going. If I hadn't already got rackbags, bar bags and panniers, and had the money, I might be tempted to buy aerobags to go quicker, but then I'd probably spend longer watching the world go by!

[rob]

Quite glad I removed myself from the Facebook group after a couple of weeks.

[dim]

There's nothing inherently performance related about using Strava. The vast majority of Strava users don't view it as the must-get-KOM tool non-Strava users seem to. For most, it's just a useful way to log and track and share rides.

I fully agree. In addition to logging and sharing my own rides, I find it highly useful to use Strava to see what rides others in my cycling network have been doing, both from an information perspective and for motivation to get out myself.

Having just helped out for the first time on a 400 last weekend, it was interesting to see the mood of riders across the whole spectrum. The faster riders tended to come into controls looking fresher than many of the slower riders, but the 'smile-factor' was evenly distributed across the field.

Everything that I see about Audax rides aligns to the personal endeavour. The only competition I see is in points accumulation, not comparative speed.

Strava is a great tool to not only check your rides and your fitness level, but also those of others.

use strava properly .... use the heartstrap, check what zone you arte cycling in, check your heartbeat, check your average cadence etc  and compare it to others who do similar rides ... go one step further and add a powermeter

join groups such as  AUK Audax UK, Blue Dot Club, UMCA, Londo Edinburh London and similar clubs, and see how other cyclists are training and what their stats are. YACF also has a Strava club

find members who cycle similar to you and follow their rides/training routine, compare your speeds with people of your own age group

One of the people who I follow is Steven Abraham .... amazing cyclist .... his ave heartbeat on a 350km+ ride is in the 70's

Strava is cheap for premium membership, add the free stravastix app and you have a very good program .... I'd happily pay 5 times more per month for this service. It has helped me immensly in my cycling, and I have also found many new routes nearby which other cyclists train on

[Veloman]

Or just ride your bike!

[Slimline Saxon]

The Straggler and I are famous for being Lanterne Rouge, but quietly go about our business and enjoy the whole Audax experience, spending time with as many riders and organisers, helpers, cafe staff etc as we can.

We never meet the faster riders, only at the start, it can be lonely in our twilight world. We do get to eat the leftovers though. Raymond got a top ten points finish last year, so do we really care about times?

[Kim]

The back is where the action is.

[Bianchi Boy]

Strava is great if used to help friends enjoy rides, share routes and get a community going. My club has recently had a debate about club runs and how some people felt they were getting longer and faster. Well some of them were and some of the people who wanted a shorter ride with a long coffee stop started putting rides on starva and inviting others. Suddenly there are more rides with leaders and more choice. Posting rides with slower times can encourage others to come along who feel your pace suites them.

Strava can also be used in a way that spoils club runs. People treat them like competitions and wait for the Strava segment and them sprint off for a fast time, never sharing the work and looking for fastest section times.

So it depends how you view Strava and fast times. I used to be quite quick and the fast club run now averages 35kmh, yes that is not a mistype 35. More happy with the 27kmh average moving speed now.

BB

[GrahamG]

We're still pretty relaxed about these things - try discussing PBP with a French rider, there are three questions in quick succession and one will be "what time did you do?"

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I was first back once.     I had a train to catch, so I got up early on the third day and was lucky to get to the turn before the headwinds kicked off.  I can't remember being a lanterne rouge but I've DNFd a few times, once after 1km from the start, which presumably made me 'last' of the starters.   I did once sprint for a town sign on an Audax, but that was for a laugh - it was on the Rural South where East Stratton had set a tour-de-france style banner across the road as part of the village fete, and Chris Beynon and I felt it had to be done.  What another rider thought about two steel framed bikes with mudguards racks and panniers going head down for an imaginary line I don't know.  But we enjoyed it. 

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think the move to mudguardless, bike packing machines shows us where Audax is going. If I hadn't already got rackbags, bar bags and panniers, and had the money, I might be tempted to buy aerobags to go quicker, but then I'd probably spend longer watching the world go by!

Going quicker to spend more time at rest watching the world go by, from a cafe, pub or field, is what I would be very tempted to do if I had the legs and lungs.

[Kim]

Posting rides with slower times can encourage others to come along who feel your pace suites them.

This is a really fucking brilliant point that hadn't occurred to me.  The usual problem for a newbie joining an unfamiliar group is that when they ask about the pace, people always say it'll be 'relaxed' or 'sociable' or some other term that may mean a gentle day out on the bike, or slogging your guts to keep up with Proper Cyclists.  I expect the opposite is also true, but unless there's a risk of hypothermia, most people have sufficient good manners to stick to the pace of a slower-than-expected group for the duration and simply not come next time.

Strava means you can measure it objectively, rather than resort to guesswork based on demographics, choice of kit and apparent level of clue - all of which can be misleading.  Given a decent number of Strava users on a ride, the flyby feature is a good way to see how a group behaves in terms of how spread out things get and the amount of stoppages.

[Bikeabilityman]

I think the move to mudguardless, bike packing machines shows us where Audax is going. If I hadn't already got rackbags, bar bags and panniers, and had the money, I might be tempted to buy aerobags to go quicker, but then I'd probably spend longer watching the world go by!

Going quicker to spend more time at rest watching the world go by, from a cafe, pub or field, is what I would be very tempted to do if I had the legs and lungs.

I find it very hard to pass a 'spoons without stopping, but if I think I have enough time in hand, I enjoy a pint.

[Tull924]

I think the move to mudguardless, bike packing machines shows us where Audax is going. If I hadn't already got rackbags, bar bags and panniers, and had the money, I might be tempted to buy aerobags to go quicker, but then I'd probably spend longer watching the world go by!

Don't believe the hype. I'm really not sold on x1 chainsets, gravel bikes, disk brakes, bike packing bags etc. To my mind they are just marketing, trying to sell you something that you don't need by making you want it.

With regard to bike packing bags I think the frame bags are less aero as most of the time the wind is across you to come degree and they limit access to bidons. I think that strapping lots of stuff to handlebars is not the way to go especially if your bike isn't mid or low trail specific. I think the rear bikepacking saddle bags are marginally more aero than a traditional saddle bag but you have to take a lot of stuff out and repack if something is towards the bottom of the pack, I think that they are no less aero than a rackbag.

Traditional audax style bikes have evolved for a reason and are the perfect machine for the task, I do note that there are some new machines coming to market that are changing what is defined as a normal audax bike but you do not need to rush out and buy one

(for what it is worth I run a traditional audax bike for clubruns, club 10s and audax and commute on a a gravel bike running 650b wheels whilst a Mk3 Moulton takes up pub bike / runaround duties. When the work bike is replaced my current thinking is to go back to 700c touring bike with v brakes)

[Exit Stage Left]

Where gravel bikes score is in being able to take big tyres, which are a good idea on our terrible roads. I interviewed the 'first back' in last year's Mille Pennines, and he used an 80s light tourer with 700c wheels replacing the 27s, the spare space was filled with 38mm tyres.

Younger riders on modern bikes can be first back on shorter rides, but experience offsets youth at longer distances.