National 400 2018

[rob]

Perhaps the CTC  (Cycling UK) should be encouraged to get behind it again like they used to.

When I organised a National 400 10+ yrs ago I wouldn't describe the experience of working with the CTC as them 'getting behind me'.   

[Veloman]

^^^^^ Good post from a very experienced organiser who provided a super National 400 (U N Dulates)

Seems some strategic direction is required from AUK other than what appears to be the laissez-faire approach (which does produce some fantastic events.)

[frankly frankie]

But it can seem at times that there's pressure from AUK to have everything sorted before the event is published on the calendar.

I've never really understood that.  The Planner is explicitly intended to allow a staged planning process, with publication possible once the headline bits are in place.  But successive Event Secs seem to have discouraged that approach, presumably to prevent kite-flying.

[Bairn Again]

I dont agree with the "there has to be a National 400" (or x00) event.

Organisers are volunteers, and a full service event is a big undertaking.  If there isnt an organiser out there who wishes to take it on in 2018, i dont see a particular problem.  Theres cachet if its not automatically an annual event and it acts as a reminder that no volunteers means no event. 

Better that it doesnt happen than somebody does do it half heartedly.

[whosatthewheel]

I dont agree with the "there has to be a National 400" (or x00) event.

Organisers are volunteers, and a full service event is a big undertaking.  If there isnt an organiser out there who wishes to take it on in 2018, i dont see a particular problem.  Theres cachet if its not automatically an annual event and it acts as a reminder that no volunteers means no event. 

Better that it doesnt happen than somebody does do it half heartedly.

Obviously...

However, it is in the interest of everybody, including organisers, to have one. If more people get into long distance this means more people will then enter other 400,600 and 1000 events.... which I hope is good news for all organisers.

I doubt an X rated 400 will attract many first timers. There is only one TLC 400 in the calendar and it sold out in hours.

I hope the general feeling within AUK is not that of "let's stick to 24 hours garages and keep collecting points for the awards"... I would hope there is an interest in involving more (and possibly younger) members. The bivvy bag and the Ginster pasty are an acquired taste, rather thna a starting point

[Peter]

A 400 is not usually the starting point for Audax, anyway.  I think the idea was to encourage people to step up from lower distances and to have the opportunity to sleep/rest along the way.  It's not intended as an introduction to Audax.

[whosatthewheel]

A 400 is not usually the starting point for Audax, anyway.  I think the idea was to encourage people to step up from lower distances and to have the opportunity to sleep/rest along the way.  It's not intended as an introduction to Audax.

Yes, that's what I meant... an introduction to long distance... for some also a way to get into AUK... quite a few are not AUK members

[Peter]

I'm all for encouraging people into Audax!  But not sure I'd start with 400s.  On this year's National (on which I was a volunteer) there were 147 finishers, of which only 13 were not AUK members.

[Ian H]

I'm all for encouraging people into Audax!  But not sure I'd start with 400s.  On this year's National (on which I was a volunteer) there were 147 finishers, of which only 13 were not AUK members.

I think the idea was more to encourage relatively experienced cyclists into audax.  The failure of the link with the CTC rather broke that.

[Arry-R]

I think the idea was more to encourage relatively experienced cyclists into audax.  The failure of the link with the CTC rather broke that.
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Spot on

[aidan.f]

I am making initial enquiries about halls in Lockerbie and Peebles to turn the Hot Trod into a fully catered event..
Up thread it was noted that I have an entry limit of 60, well that's because it's about the maximum myself and few others can manage. So 100+ across Peebles and Cornhill would be ok.  Of course we need more than halls,  volunteers and sleeping for them. I have a b&b at Cornhill, 3 singles + one couple where we  hot bunk a late and early shift.  A Peebles crew finishing at 0100 would deffo need hotel  accommodation for the night.
All starts to get complex and expensive. Breaks my philosophy of providing support where we can realise the most benefit. Tis only worthwhile for a flagship event such as the national.

[hillbilly]

I'm all for encouraging people into Audax!  But not sure I'd start with 400s.  On this year's National (on which I was a volunteer) there were 147 finishers, of which only 13 were not AUK members.

I think the idea was more to encourage relatively experienced cyclists into audax.  The failure of the link with the CTC rather broke that.

I thought it was reintroduced after a hiatus to encourage existing members to do longer distances, as figures were tailing off.  It was felt having one flagship 400, with facilities to make it easier, would help arrest that as it would give those who had never done night riding a gentler introduction that sleeping in a bus shelter on the Stoic Masochist 400 X rated events that were are the same time becoming increasingly common.  I suspect the CTC thing was broke well before then and there was little expectation that non-members would enter the National (but were more than welcome if they did).  But I might be wrong.

[whosatthewheel]

I'm all for encouraging people into Audax!  But not sure I'd start with 400s.  On this year's National (on which I was a volunteer) there were 147 finishers, of which only 13 were not AUK members.

I trhink 10% on a 400 is pretty good... I'd like to know what is the non AUK members % in a non TLC 400 or longer event

[Veloman]

I trhink 10% on a 400 is pretty good... I'd like to know what is the non AUK members % in a non TLC 400 or longer event

Easy to check by looking at results for last season:

http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/events/

Non-members are at the bottom without AUK Membership number.

Numbers of non-AUK vary:

31% here http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=17-347

9% here http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=17-350

30% here http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=17-365

Off you go to have an absorbing time on doing some research!

[Arry-R]

Off you go to have an absorbing time on doing some research!
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[Bairn Again]

I am making initial enquiries about halls in Lockerbie and Peebles to turn the Hot Trod into a fully catered event..
Up thread it was noted that I have an entry limit of 60, well that's because it's about the maximum myself and few others can manage. So 100+ across Peebles and Cornhill would be ok.  Of course we need more than halls,  volunteers and sleeping for them. I have a b&b at Cornhill, 3 singles + one couple where we  hot bunk a late and early shift.  A Peebles crew finishing at 0100 would deffo need hotel  accommodation for the night.
All starts to get complex and expensive. Breaks my philosophy of providing support where we can realise the most benefit. Tis only worthwhile for a flagship event such as the national.

I was going to offer to help at Peebles but I've looked at the calendar and realise that I'm likely to be otherwise engaged that weekend with the Scottish 1000. 

[madcow]

I'm all for encouraging people into Audax!  But not sure I'd start with 400s.  On this year's National (on which I was a volunteer) there were 147 finishers, of which only 13 were not AUK members.

I think the idea was more to encourage relatively experienced cyclists into audax.  The failure of the link with the CTC rather broke that.

Agreed. My first two audax events were CTC Nationals. It generated a good atmosphere and the nighttime controls were a godsend.
There will be many who will argue that a 400k. is not the best introduction to audax, but it does add that extra bit of mystery by forcing you to confront night time riding.

[Arry-R]

There will be many who will argue that a 400k. is not the best introduction to audax, but it does add that extra bit of mystery by forcing you to confront night time riding.
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As I recall it wasn't necessarily to be an introduction to audax as such but a longer distance involving night time riding.  Before audax came of being here in the UK CTC held a number of 250 mile rides in 24 hrs.

[whosatthewheel]

I am making initial enquiries about halls in Lockerbie and Peebles to turn the Hot Trod into a fully catered event..
Up thread it was noted that I have an entry limit of 60, well that's because it's about the maximum myself and few others can manage. So 100+ across Peebles and Cornhill would be ok.  Of course we need more than halls,  volunteers and sleeping for them. I have a b&b at Cornhill, 3 singles + one couple where we  hot bunk a late and early shift.  A Peebles crew finishing at 0100 would deffo need hotel  accommodation for the night.
All starts to get complex and expensive. Breaks my philosophy of providing support where we can realise the most benefit. Tis only worthwhile for a flagship event such as the national.

Scotland would be a bit on the far and expensive side for me to come and help, but not impossible. I would assume you are talking 2019 here, seeing that your event is already open for entries for 2018

[madcow]

There will be many who will argue that a 400k. is not the best introduction to audax, but it does add that extra bit of mystery by forcing you to confront night time riding.

As I recall it wasn't necessarily to be an introduction to audax as such but a longer distance involving night time riding.  Before audax came of being here in the UK CTC held a number of 250 mile rides in 24 hrs.
[/quote]

York CTC ran a 24 hour reliability ride that went over the A66 to Penrith, round the top end of Ullswater and then over Kirkstone Pass to Windermere. Return was Staveley,Kendal ,Sedbergh , Hawes, Ripon and back to York via Shipton by Beningborough. Still one of my most memorable rides for all sorts of reasons.
The A class roads would probably rule it out as an organised ride nowadays.

[Wobbly]

-bump-

So, does this mean no National 400? This year? Ever again?

[whosatthewheel]

-bump-

So, does this mean no National 400? This year? Ever again?

I guess not this year... seems a bit late now

[Bairn Again]

I might offer to do it in 2019, though if the AUK reunion is going to be in Scotland in November, it would be hard to justify another trip to Alba so soon for many.   

IIRC The Kingdom Come 400 was the National 400 circa 2000 and is a fantastic ride thats not on the calendar these days.   

This could be tweaked into a "National friendly" event by moving the start to somewhere more easily reached by car or train than the current Dunfermline start for the perm version.  Nobody wants to go to Dunfermline.

The City of Stirling is an obvious choice - its virtually surrounded by motorways and now has a direct train service to many far flung places including London.

Tweaking the route to fit known and established control venues would be reasonably do-able   

[whosatthewheel]

I might offer to do it in 2019, though if the AUK reunion is going to be in Scotland in November, it would be hard to justify another trip to Alba so soon for many.   

IIRC The Kingdom Come 400 was the National 400 circa 2000 and is a fantastic ride thats not on the calendar these days.   

This could be tweaked into a "National friendly" event by moving the start to somewhere more easily reached by car or train than the current Dunfermline start for the perm version.  Nobody wants to go to Dunfermline.

The City of Stirling is an obvious choice - its virtually surrounded by motorways and now has a direct train service to many far flung places including London.

Tweaking the route to fit known and established control venues would be reasonably do-able

Look forward to your plan!

I wouldn't worry at all about where the reunion is held to be honest

[Wobbly]

I might offer to do it in 2019, though if the AUK reunion is going to be in Scotland in November, it would be hard to justify another trip to Alba so soon for many.   

IIRC The Kingdom Come 400 was the National 400 circa 2000 and is a fantastic ride thats not on the calendar these days.   

This could be tweaked into a "National friendly" event by moving the start to somewhere more easily reached by car or train than the current Dunfermline start for the perm version.  Nobody wants to go to Dunfermline.

The City of Stirling is an obvious choice - its virtually surrounded by motorways and now has a direct train service to many far flung places including London.

Tweaking the route to fit known and established control venues would be reasonably do-able   

I'd be very much in favour of re-running the 2000(or was it 2001?) National 400 (cracking route and scenery) *only* of you arrange for better weather. Last time it started raining at the start and carried on with just a brief respite overnight. In fact at the end it was torrential!

However, starting riders four-at-a-time every couple of minutes under the watchful gaze of The Constabulary was a novel addition; full marks for that.