Does anyone use carbon?

[Rupert]

Have been thinking about getting myself a new bike for Audax until recently when I called into a cafe and noticed a small bike business next door.  On investigating further, the bike business turned out to be a sole trader that just repairs carbon bike frames and the guy's opinion was that carbon should only be used for time-trials and if the rider is under 65kg. 

The frames he had in for repair included some very expensive frames indeed, many, apparently from damage from hitting pot holes! including a Pinarello Dogma F8 where the seat tube had cracked vertically down the tube.  My opinion of carbon has dramatically changed since seeing and hearing of these damaged frames and will now look at titanium instead, but does anyone else use a carbon frame for Audax?

[Greenbank]

Yes, plenty of people do.

I've used my Wilier Izoard on a 100 and a 600.

[mattc]

Yes, plenty of people do.

I've used my Wilier Izoard on a 100 and a 600.

Ignore him - it's just Audax humour.

carbon is in effect banned on Audax. We let newbies do their first ride on carbon, but give them Hard Stares.

If they enter a 2nd ride on carbon, we stick our pumps in their spokes. They soon learn!

[simonp]

Have done up to a 600k on a Trek Madone. Not the most comfortable ride, though.

I'd worry about any bike surviving a bad hit on a deep pothole. If it's not the frame, you have to think about the wheels. I've bent a rear axle before.

[Zed43]

I did ride several audaxes, including LEL, on a carbon PlanetX BishBashBosh. It's marketed as a gravel bike, weighs in at about 1600 gram (frame + fork) so not super light. Decent bike, takes 35mm tyres with (very close fitting) mudguards. I am 62kg or less though...

Deep potholes will wreck anything, but when fitted with wide tyres carbon will survive the average British road just fine 

[grams]

What bollocks. If your job is to repair carbon then you only see the broken ones and it doesn't put you in any position to assess the number of not-broken ones.

I'd say carbon bikes make up the majority on many if not most audaxes these days, even rides like LEL. I don't hear many reports of snapped frames.

My main audax bike is full carbon - I've hit a fair few potholes on it and it's still in one piece, and that's with rock hard 23mms. I've done thousands of kms on it and my previous carbon frame with no signs of anything breaking.

Of course titanium never cracks, and neither does steel or aluminium.

[whosatthewheel]

My carbon frame is 1.2 Kg... you can buy some that weigh 700 grams these days... there is a big difference between the two.. one is built for strength, the other is built for stiffness and low weight with racing in mind... carbon is just a material... it's what you do with it that makes the difference.

All materials fail in a way or another, including titanium... some would say especially titanium

[TigaSefi]

Have been thinking about getting myself a new bike for Audax until recently when I called into a cafe and noticed a small bike business next door.  On investigating further, the bike business turned out to be a sole trader that just repairs carbon bike frames and the guy's opinion was that carbon should only be used for time-trials and if the rider is under 65kg. 

The frames he had in for repair included some very expensive frames indeed, many, apparently from damage from hitting pot holes! including a Pinarello Dogma F8 where the seat tube had cracked vertically down the tube.  My opinion of carbon has dramatically changed since seeing and hearing of these damaged frames and will now look at titanium instead, but does anyone else use a carbon frame for Audax?

What a load of bollocks. Cars get damaged by potholes. Should we not drive our cars as well? I use carbon for dry rides and aluminium for shitty weather rides.

Froome is 67kg so should he not ride his bike? This is the biggest amount of horseshit I’ve ever heard.

[Chris N]

Have been thinking about getting myself a new bike for Audax until recently when I called into a cafe and noticed a small bike business next door.  On investigating further, the bike business turned out to be a sole trader that just repairs carbon bike frames and the guy's opinion was that carbon should only be used for time-trials and if the rider is under 65kg. 

The frames he had in for repair included some very expensive frames indeed, many, apparently from damage from hitting pot holes! including a Pinarello Dogma F8 where the seat tube had cracked vertically down the tube.  My opinion of carbon has dramatically changed since seeing and hearing of these damaged frames and will now look at titanium instead, but does anyone else use a carbon frame for Audax?

Maybe he just hates his job.  If only lightweight TTers rode carbon frames he'd be out of work, no?

[Exit Stage Left]

One comment from mechanics at LEL was about the number of broken derailleur hangers. That applies to aluminium as well, but there are lots of different designs, and you'll struggle to get one at short notice.

So the No.1 Audax precaution for any bike with a gear hanger is to get a spare, and cable-tie it to the bike somewhere.

https://derailleurhangerstore.co.uk/pages/how-to-identify-your-derailleur-hanger

[Samuel D]

Cars get damaged by potholes. Should we not drive our cars as well?

Evidently we shouldn’t drive cars that are routinely damaged by potholes. It saddens me that people think it’s okay to claim taxpayers’ money for damage done to ludicrously unsuitable wheels and tyres when they drive over the inevitable potholes.

At least cyclists don’t pass the costs of their dumb decisions onto society … yet.

[Rupert]

Just passing on what the guy said thats all, so thought it might make useful discussion on here!

Some interesting replies, but as i'm well over 65kg think I might go for something thats not going to break!  I for one wouldnt be very happy if I spent several thousands of pounds on a nice looking carbon frame only for it to fall apart on hitting a pot-hole.

Although Chris Froome weighs in at 67kg, he doesnt have to pay for his equipment.

[T42]

There's little chance that carbon will break under you. My Trek Domane takes up to 100 kg, and has an aluminium tube inside the seatpost* so that you can clamp an SQR block or similar to it.  With a Selle Anatomica saddle instead of the Bontrager plastic effort I had a very comfortable 2015 PBP indeed.

Also had a comfy PBP on Ti in 2007. And rode the Ti bike with its carbon fork down a road that had lost its tarmac to floods in 2013 and was nothing but hard core. No problem.

We did have one friend, though, whose fork snapped when her front wheel came out of the drop-outs and abraded it at speed. An idiot in her club had filed off the lawyer's lips.

*If you do go carbon beware of fancy aero-section seatposts: El Prez has one on his Cannondale and can't clamp to it. El Prez also weighs around 100 kg and I wouldn't let him on my bike.

[T42]

FWIW on PBP 2015 I weighed ~72 kg and had around 6 kg of luggage and a couple of litres of water: around 87 kg all up. No problems. Your LBS guy is talking rubbish.

Titanium's nice, though...

[Philip Whiteman]

Have been thinking about getting myself a new bike for Audax until recently when I called into a cafe and noticed a small bike business next door.  On investigating further, the bike business turned out to be a sole trader that just repairs carbon bike frames and the guy's opinion was that carbon should only be used for time-trials and if the rider is under 65kg. 

The frames he had in for repair included some very expensive frames indeed, many, apparently from damage from hitting pot holes! including a Pinarello Dogma F8 where the seat tube had cracked vertically down the tube.  My opinion of carbon has dramatically changed since seeing and hearing of these damaged frames and will now look at titanium instead, but does anyone else use a carbon frame for Audax?

I used to ride carbon myself until I cracked stem after crashing on a cattle grid whilst riding The Elenith.  The crack went unnoticed for months during which time I could not figure out why my rear gear indexing kept was failing. It took three bike shops to spot the crack.

The frame was binned and I now exclusively ride titanium.  However, do not be fooled into believing that ti is fail safe as it is also known to fail.

[Hot Flatus]

As others have said, what the guy told you is bollocks. I know of more failed Ti frames than I do carbon. I've been riding carbon bikes for 16 years with no issues. I ride nearly all my audaxes on carbon. I rode a 1000k on a pure race bike. The most uncomfortable lumpy and uninspiring bike I've ever owned was steel. If you ride carelessly over potholes you may well break something (most likely your wheel).

There you go. Some food for thought.

[zakalwe]

carbon is just a material... it's what you do with it that makes the difference.

This deserves to be repeated.  The material you make a frame out of doesn't solely determine whether or how it's going to fail (and neither do silly anecdotes with a sample size of 1).

The frame construction is just as important, if not more; you can build a very tough carbon frame, and a very fragile metal one.

[whosatthewheel]

I used to ride carbon myself until I cracked stem after crashing on a cattle grid whilst riding The Elenith.  The crack went unnoticed for months during which time I could not figure out why my rear gear indexing kept was failing. It took three bike shops to spot the crack.

The frame was binned and I now exclusively ride titanium.  However, do not be fooled into believing that ti is fail safe as it is also known to fail.

I can't connect a stem failure with poor gear indexing...

[Ben T]

In my experience the disadvantage of carbon for audax is not that it's an inferior material or more likely to break - it's not.
It's the fact it's more difficult to get a frame and forks with the exact fixtures and fittings you want.

Show me a carbon bike with disk brakes, full mudguard mounts, and a fork crown dynamo light mount.
I've toyed with the idea of getting a new carbon bike for audax but I want all of the above and I have so far only found one with all of them , the rose xeon cross gravel - but rose are fairly inflexible in terms of spec, don't allow you to spec dynamo hubbed/tubeless wheels or your choice of bars, and are pretty bad/slow at responding to emails. Feels like they don't really want your trade.

Would actually be quite interested to hear if anyone knows of any others.

Quite frustrating that for each combination of two of the above three, there seems to be plenty - but none with them all.

So I'm not going to bother until someone actually invents a carbon bike that is perfect for audax off the shelf, and has dynamo lights, tubeless, disks and mudguards built in from the start. Might not even then 'cos seem to be getting on ok at the moment riding my custom titanium rohloff burls for audax.

If you don't (always) need/want lights, you're happy to have your main headlight on the handlebars, bodge, or mix and match parts that might not be meant to go together, then you might have more of a choice of different models of carbon audax bike. But personally none of those apply to me which is why carbon isn't really appropriate for me.

Personally, the beef I have with steel is corrosion, particularly cold welding around seatposts that then get stuck in them. By definition you only realise when you try to move the seat post.
There are framebuilders that say steel is far better because it's easier to weld: I don't buy that - that's your problem, it's no advantage to me as a rider. I don't care how difficult it is for you to make, you're the professional, you build it.

Also might be my naivety but I don't personally understand the idea of one frame material being more comfortable than another. Sometimes you ride along and think your arse, feet or hands are feeling a bit uncomfy, but I can't remember ever riding along and thinking 'ooh, my frame feels a bit uncomfy at the moment'. 

[Manotea]

Some how cracked carbon frames look scarier than metal ones.

My big concern is how they fare at the hands of luggage handlers/liklihood of being trashed by an 'off...

[Greenbank]

http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/221187-10-best-mudguard-compatible-carbon-fibre-road-bikes

I think the main reason we don't see more Carbon Audax bikes (there was the Pearson Carbon Audax Pro a few years ago) is because there's such a small market for them that the development/marketing costs are just simply not worth it, especially if they're expected to come in a suitable OTP configuration. Building up from a frame is certainly doable but not everyone's cup of tea.

I just used raceblades, a Carradice Barley (no rack worries) and a couple of battery powered lights on an extra bar hanging down from the bars when I used my Wilier for long Audaxes. The raceblades are still fitted to the bike some 6 years later as I haven't bothered to take them off.

Also might be my naivety but I don't personally understand the idea of one frame material being more comfortable than another. Sometimes you ride along and think your arse, feet or hands are feeling a bit uncomfy, but I can't remember ever riding along and thinking 'ooh, my frame feels a bit uncomfy at the moment'. 

Different materials (and designs) absorb/transmit road noise in different ways. I find Alu frames like the Ribble Audax (or winter training frame) transmit loads of road buzz, even with the similar carbon forks (so it must be coming from the back end).

[mattc]

There is clearly a lot of uncertainty over this important issue - perhaps a letter to Arrivée is required ...

[simonp]

Show me a carbon bike with disk brakes, full mudguard mounts, and a fork crown dynamo light mount.

Mine has 2/3. However, I can easily fit a dynamo light; the dynamo mount is attached to the front of the stem where it sits just below the Garmin. The mounting system is the same as the GoPro system, so lots of adapters exist, and someone in the USA makes a Schmidt adapter for GoPro, and I have the under-mount version of a Schmidt EDeluxII. All very neat.

[Planet X Paul]

In my experience the disadvantage of carbon for audax is not that it's an inferior material or more likely to break - it's not.
It's the fact it's more difficult to get a frame and forks with the exact fixtures and fittings you want.

Show me a carbon bike with disk brakes, full mudguard mounts, and a fork crown dynamo light mount.
I've toyed with the idea of getting a new carbon bike for audax but I want all of the above and I have so far only found one with all of them , the rose xeon cross gravel - but rose are fairly inflexible in terms of spec, don't allow you to spec dynamo hubbed/tubeless wheels or your choice of bars, and are pretty bad/slow at responding to emails. Feels like they don't really want your trade.

Would actually be quite interested to hear if anyone knows of any others.

I built up a carbon framed audax bike last year that has all of the above; hydraulic disc brakes, full mudguards, dynamo light.  Perhaps the only difference is that rather than buying a fully built bike, I bought the frame and specced the rest of the components and group set and got my LBS to put it together.  Now happily riding a Viner Strada Bianca frame (from Planet X) with Sram 22 speed and hydraulic discs.  Custom wheel set from '23mm Wheels' with SP Dynamo and running B&M Luxus IQ light.

[Somnolent]

There is clearly a lot of uncertainty over this important issue - perhaps a letter to Arrivée is required ...

That's another keyboard you owe me!