Author Topic: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.  (Read 7948 times)

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #25 on: 30 September, 2009, 11:25:17 pm »
I rode an audax this year where all the entrants, with one exception, rode together for the whole route until the last few miles when it got a bit hilly and there was a bit of 'spreadage' but even then everyone finished within a few minutes of one another.

MercuryKev

  • Maxin' n Audaxin'
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #26 on: 01 October, 2009, 07:31:29 am »
I rode an audax this year where all the entrants, with one exception, rode together for the whole route until the last few miles when it got a bit hilly and there was a bit of 'spreadage' but even then everyone finished within a few minutes of one another.

Me too, it was a solo DIY 3oo :D

Really Ancien

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #27 on: 01 October, 2009, 09:39:42 am »
I was inspired to delve into this subject by a conversation on the Fleet Moss on Sunday. We were talking about the old rides from Doncaster and Southport, where there'd be 50 miles at a steady 18 to 20 miles before any climbing broke the groups up. I enjoyed the camaraderie of LEL starting from Lee Valley, but I had devised my own strategy to allow me to film the leading riders. Starting from Thorne gave you 50 miles of group riding, with regroups at Level Crossings. The Lea Valley Start gave a much choppier first 100 miles with the additional potential to lose time through complex route finding.
Another conversation was about the physics of climbing and descending and its relationship to the ability to metabolise food and shed heat, which made me realise that fewer people know why big riders like me struggle to stay with groups over hills than I had thought.


Damon.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #28 on: 01 October, 2009, 11:23:29 am »
Another conversation was about the physics of climbing and descending and its relationship to the ability to metabolise food and shed heat, which made me realise that fewer people know why big riders like me struggle to stay with groups over hills than I had thought.
Doesn't surprise me at all!
Most riders can remember when they were less fit; very few can remember being 6" taller and 5st heavier. It just isn't part of their experience.

Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Really Ancien

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #29 on: 01 October, 2009, 12:55:35 pm »
Another conversation was about the physics of climbing and descending and its relationship to the ability to metabolise food and shed heat, which made me realise that fewer people know why big riders like me struggle to stay with groups over hills than I had thought.
Doesn't surprise me at all!
Most riders can remember when they were less fit; very few can remember being 6" taller and 5st heavier. It just isn't part of their experience.



Good point. I was asked why bigger riders descend faster. It's mainly down to the way frontal area is a square function, and volume, and hence mass, is a cube function. I assumed that most people know that wind resistance is related to surface area, and is the main drag in cycling, and also that mass is the motive force downhill, generating 9.8 M/s/s of acceleration, so far so general knowledge in my opinion. You only need to think about these things at the outer percentiles of the size distribution in Audaxing.
I'm always more inclined to help small riders on the flat into a headwind because I sympathise with their plight, it being the inverse of my own.

Damon.

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #30 on: 01 October, 2009, 01:17:48 pm »
I can remember being less fit and 5 stone heavier. I climb better now. Go figure. It is not that complicated. Lighter riders who ride hills alot climb better.

Really Ancien

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #31 on: 01 October, 2009, 01:39:31 pm »
I can remember being less fit and 5 stone heavier. I climb better now. Go figure. It is not that complicated. Lighter riders who ride hills alot climb better.

Low BMI and high fitness has its own problems. Prone-ness to hypothermia on descents and a tendency to pick up low level infections being two. There's also less training effect from climbing fast when you are lighter. Keeping the high power to weight ratio, which you acheive by maintaining the power you needed when you were heavier, after you have lost weight, requires more focused training, especially in the winter. It's when riding becomes a chore, rather than a joy, that aspirations shift to gentler rides.

Damon.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #32 on: 01 October, 2009, 02:11:49 pm »
I can remember being less fit and 5 stone heavier. I climb better now. Go figure. It is not that complicated. Lighter riders who ride hills alot climb better.

Weight can be affected by height as well...
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #33 on: 01 October, 2009, 05:38:35 pm »
The Port Navigation Light organised by our own Y Lee G must be one of the best rides for good company. The three ferry crossings meant that fast and slow riders ended up - eating breakfast together in the Oban Tescos, drinking tea together on the Mull Ferry, eating horrible food together at the Lochaline Ferry and having  a quick pint together at the Corran Ferry. All this was rounded off with top class nosh at the finish control!

It is a great route for the roads and the scenery, but getting the chance to spend time with people I don't often cycle with was an added bonus.
Yes indeed.  One of the very few audaxes that I have ridden almost the whole event with company (except when on the tandem ;D).  Though my timing was obviously poor - I missed the pint at Corran, arriving there shortly before the ferry started loading.

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #34 on: 01 October, 2009, 11:09:34 pm »
This is going off-topic from inclusive rides:
>> There's also less training effect from climbing fast when you are lighter.
Disagree - The climb /flat / descent is as hard as you make it, speed is relative to your weight.

>> and also that mass is the motive force downhill
IOW - The fat-boy bonus.

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #35 on: 02 October, 2009, 04:43:16 pm »


There's also less training effect from climbing fast when you are lighter.
So a light person such as I will see more benefit from twiddling up a hill slowly ? I don't think you mean that. You are just trying to stop me taking the piss on hills aren't you ?

Really Ancien

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #36 on: 02 October, 2009, 10:26:26 pm »


There's also less training effect from climbing fast when you are lighter.
So a light person such as I will see more benefit from twiddling up a hill slowly ? I don't think you mean that. You are just trying to stop me taking the piss on hills aren't you ?

There's just less resistance from lower weight. Climbing faster because you're lighter doesn't translate into more speed on the flat because there's not any more power available. It doesn't matter if you're just following wheels, but if you're keen to improve your TT performance it does.

Damon.

Panoramix

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  • Suus cuique crepitus bene olet
    • Some routes
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #37 on: 03 October, 2009, 12:04:39 am »


There's also less training effect from climbing fast when you are lighter.
So a light person such as I will see more benefit from twiddling up a hill slowly ? I don't think you mean that. You are just trying to stop me taking the piss on hills aren't you ?

There's just less resistance from lower weight. Climbing faster because you're lighter doesn't translate into more speed on the flat because there's not any more power available. It doesn't matter if you're just following wheels, but if you're keen to improve your TT performance it does.

Damon.

Damon, you will have to come to the fact that rouleurs are just there to open the way to the grimpeurs who then win the stage!  :demon:
Chief cat entertainer.

Androcles

  • Cycling Weakly
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #38 on: 03 October, 2009, 12:19:57 am »
This is going off-topic from inclusive rides:


I'll put in a good word for the Tramway 100.  Good route, challenging but not insanely hilly throughout, the control at Hollinsclough coincides with the Flower Festival and extra visitors are always very welcome, and whereas your entry fee doesn't include a cup of tea at the start it does get you a pint of beer at the finish.  :thumbsup:
Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into a dream

Really Ancien

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #39 on: 03 October, 2009, 12:32:45 pm »

Damon, you will have to come to the fact that rouleurs are just there to open the way to the grimpeurs who then win the stage!  :demon:

It's the team that wins the stage, they share the prize money after all.
Rolling terrain has an interesting training effect for bigger riders, it is generally possible to stay with a group of lighter riders by hitting the anaerobic threshold over the summits of small climbs and recovering downhill, perhaps even going in front of the group to make things easier on the next climb. This gives you good sprinting ability as well as making it easier to bridge to other groups in a headwind. There are big fitness gains to be made by staying with a group of slightly higher ability for any rider, it's just emphasised for rouleurs on hills.
The 'inclusiveness' of rides is two sided, it is possible to include yourself by knowing how the terrain will work with or against you. But ultimately there are Audaxes which larger riders will always ride on their own, because Physics is against them. If enough entered to form an 'Autobus' it would be better, but there aren't that many masochists over 6'4" out there.

Damon.

Rimnod

Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #40 on: 03 October, 2009, 04:17:21 pm »
I rode an audax this year where all the entrants, with one exception, rode together for the whole route until the last few miles when it got a bit hilly and there was a bit of 'spreadage' but even then everyone finished within a few minutes of one another.

A Potter-for-Tea was my introduction into the world of Audax events and despite being a novice both at Audax and group riding it was great to be considered by group and not being spat out of the back by the first roundabout.   As an inclusive event it was a very positive experience.  I did arrive at the final control a little after everyone else but each and every rider took a moment to acknowledge my achievement and made sure that I got my fair share of cake (most important).

While my second event was very much a solo affair with very strong winds to battle the experience was nonetheless positive.  Riders I had met at the first event made a point of speaking and gave me advice about the route and points of caution.  Got in just on the time limit, very tired, again I was not excluded from the conversation at the recovery table (soup, tea and cake).

I left both events feeling that if cycling clubs in general adopted a more inclusive philosophy to new and returning riders, then cycling at club level would flourish.  No one likes joining a club run to be taken at a steady pace (15mph) to be dropped because someone has a point to prove and no one else will let the show off, show off.     

eck

  • Gonna ride my bike until I get home...
    • Angus Bike Chain CC
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #41 on: 03 October, 2009, 06:45:05 pm »
I rode an audax this year where all the entrants, with one exception, rode together for the whole route until the last few miles when it got a bit hilly and there was a bit of 'spreadage' but even then everyone finished within a few minutes of one another.

A Potter-for-Tea was my introduction into the world of Audax events and despite being a novice both at Audax and group riding it was great to be considered by group and not being spat out of the back by the first roundabout.   As an inclusive event it was a very positive experience. 
:thumbsup:
Glad you enjoyed it, Rimnod. We may run it again this year, or possibly the 160k Mearns Meander instead. We'll only be running one additional event in conjunction with the Snow Roads 300 next year: it was great that both the Potter for Tea and the Mearns Meander attracted a good field of audax newcomers, most of whom seemed to enjoy the rides.
It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #42 on: 05 October, 2009, 11:23:32 am »
...
If enough entered to form an 'Autobus' it would be better, but there aren't that many masochists over 6'4" out there.

Damon.
You could always slow down and join us (even less organised) slow middle-lightweights at the back :)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Panoramix

  • .--. .- -. --- .-. .- -- .. -..-
  • Suus cuique crepitus bene olet
    • Some routes
Re: The 10 most inclusive Audaxes.
« Reply #43 on: 05 October, 2009, 01:24:40 pm »

Damon, you will have to come to the fact that rouleurs are just there to open the way to the grimpeurs who then win the stage!  :demon:

The 'inclusiveness' of rides is two sided, it is possible to include yourself by knowing how the terrain will work with or against you. But ultimately there are Audaxes which larger riders will always ride on their own, because Physics is against them. If enough entered to form an 'Autobus' it would be better, but there aren't that many masochists over 6'4" out there.

I went out on the tandem with Mrs P last Saturday to do a 100. She hadn't stoked for 18 months (maternity leave applies to stoking duties!!!) it started to become hilly after 50km and well... we just finished the last half on our own!

During LEL on the way back I was with Cricri, you overtook us after Thorne and it did not take us long to decide not to follow you!
Chief cat entertainer.