What do I get for my £2500 ?

[Mrs Pingu]

I hope you get nightly sex included for that price!

[clarion]

Rapha fans are familiar with that.

[Redlight]

I've got some Rapha gear and it's pretty good.  Maybe I could get the same quality elsewhere for less but I have often been disappointed by other mid-upper range brands so I'm prepared to pay the premium.   The thing I don't like about Rapha is its baseless sense of its own coolness. Black clothes for city cycling - I ask you!

Rapha unashamedly aims at people who have wads of dosh and enjoy cycling. I once worked with a typical customer who had a lot of its kit - he rode the Etape de Tour one year and his training consisted of flying out from London by private jet on a Friday evening to his chalet in the French Alps, riding himself red-assed all weekend and flying back on Monday morning.  During the week he commuted to work in a Porsche and complained about the cyclists in London.  I'd still rather have him doing that than not riding at all.

Ultimately, there are many types of cyclist and there will be some who will find the Rapha Randonees appealing. Just as there are some who like going off to Majorca in March to ride up and down a few hills with some ex-pro. Personally, I would enjoy cycling 80-100 miles a day in the mountains AND staying in five star hotels with decent food.  Whether I would pay £2500 for it is another matter when I could put it together myself for less. But if it gets people out on their bikes then there's no harm done.

I do think they should have just called it a cycling holiday though.  

[Panoramix]

The problem with wearing a hairy jumper is that some people may eventually find it cool! And you then lose the coolness of your uncool jumper! 

[simonp]

+1 to RobM.

I've got a few bits of rapha kit. I use it more than I use my other cycling gear because it's comfortable and practical and looks better. In particular I am quite happy to wear my merino jersey in the office at work, you have to look closely to realise it's a cycling top. I wore the same jersey on the upper Thames 200 a couple of weeks ago and it performed very well.

As for the rapha rides, I've never fancied any of that but if people are willing to spend that much on cycling then let them.
 

[mattc]

.... and his training consisted of flying out from London by private jet on a Friday evening to his chalet in the French Alps, riding himself red-assed all weekend and flying back on Monday morning.  During the week he commuted to work in a Porsche and complained about the cyclists in London.  I'd still rather have him doing that than not riding at all.

<green diversion:> Well I'd rather he didn't bother. But then he'd probably fly somewhere else every Friday, and still drive his Posrche, so maybe it's moot ...
p.s. how big is this plane?           

[Euan Uzami]

I can't really share the negativity towards rapha.
What they're offering is good: forgetting cost/value for money for a moment, their clothes are good quality - stylish, and work well, and their randonnees, will undoubtedly be very enjoyable for those who go on them.
The fact that they charge a lot for it is simply a consequence of the fact that there are people willing to pay that for what they are offering. They aren't making a profit because they are evil, they are making a profit because that is what the market will bear.
FWIW, I don't think they have actually even claimed that these are 'audaxes'. Randonnee isn't entirely synonymous with audax, is it?

[mattc]

It's not luxury cycle touring I have a problem with.

One of the things I like about audaxing is the no-fuss understated recognition that it is perfectly possible to ride 600km in a weekend with an overnight bus-stop snooze, for a £10 entry fee on an old steel bike with washing up bottle extensions on its mudguards. OK, we don't all do that, but its certainly acceptable and elicits admiration from fellow riders. The spirit of Audax was summed up for me the year Manotea and Arabella deservedly won the 'merit awards'.

In contrast Rapha seem to be borrowing some of the kudos of the 'spirit of the randonneur', turning it on its head to give us an elitist privatised version of long distance riding. The could have chosen to market a 'luxury cycle tour', but instead decided to trade on the image of the randonnee to offer an all the gear, no idea version of it.

Nail on head sir - well said.

Non-cycling analogy:
- humvee/chopper trips to Everest Base Camp, followed by 30min roped walk up a slope, with free "I Climbed In Tenzing's Footsteps" T-shirt and warm hat. (Price: if you have to ask ... )

[Euan Uzami]

I can't really share the negativity towards rapha.
What they're offering is good: forgetting cost/value for money for a moment, their clothes are good quality - stylish, and work well, and their randonnees, will undoubtedly be very enjoyable for those who go on them.
The fact that they charge a lot for it is simply a consequence of the fact that there are people willing to pay that for what they are offering. They aren't making a profit because they are evil, they are making a profit because that is what the market will bear.
FWIW, I don't think they have actually even claimed that these are 'audaxes'. Randonnee isn't entirely synonymous with audax, is it?

I should add that there's no way I would fork out for rapha.
By way of comparison, a week-long, fully supported trip can be had for about a quarter of the price, e.g. one i'm doing next year: Marmot Tours

[mattc]

The fact that they charge a lot for it is simply a consequence of the fact that there are people willing to pay that for what they are offering. They aren't making a profit because they are evil, they are making a profit because that is what the market will bear.

You can make an honest profit and STILL be evil.

FWIW, I don't think they have actually even claimed that these are 'audaxes'. Randonnee isn't entirely synonymous with audax, is it?

Audaxers didn't invent the term*. However, I'd be surprised if anyone else has used it to describe a bike ride in many many years.


*I am no expert on ancient Audax history, OR ancient "randonnee" history!

[geraldc]

We're clearly not Rapha's target audience, but I think it's just that if you're not that sort of person, their marketing spiel either side splittingly funny or jaw droppingly outrageous.

Performance without compromise at any cost is fine, it's just that for many of us it just seems a screaming example of the Emperors new clothes.

[clarion]

White mitts?  Functional?  Really?  Shamo!

[Redlight]

.... and his training consisted of flying out from London by private jet on a Friday evening to his chalet in the French Alps, riding himself red-assed all weekend and flying back on Monday morning.  During the week he commuted to work in a Porsche and complained about the cyclists in London.  I'd still rather have him doing that than not riding at all.

<green diversion:> Well I'd rather he didn't bother. But then he'd probably fly somewhere else every Friday, and still drive his Posrche, so maybe it's moot ...
p.s. how big is this plane?           

I think it was a six-seater. It belonged to his wife, who used it for shopping trips.  No kidding.   

[vorsprung]

It doesn't include the airfare to get you to the start
So it isn't like a Baxter thing.  In case there is any confusion 

My favourite bit from the FAQ

How do I choose the right trip for me?

All three routes are physically testing, the Randonée Alpine is the most 'Classic' route, the Pyrenean route is steeped in mystery with lesser known climbs and the Randonée Alpennini is a romantic but very tough adventure. The type of wine you like may be one indication of where to chose.

[rottenhat]

Audaxers didn't invent the term*. However, I'd be surprised if anyone else has used it to describe a bike ride in many many years.

Indeed no.  French people did, and they still use it to describe a variety of activities, not all of them bike-related.  Probably it's only anglophones like me who get a little frisson from seeing the word randonneur on the IGN maps.

[TOBY]

probably get your photo though?

[simonp]

I wouldn't like to claim any ownership of audax or randonnes or the definition thereof just because I've done a few (dozen). They'll probably have a good time. Obviously that part us wrong.

[Bledlow]

Randonnee isn't entirely synonymous with audax, is it?

Audaxers didn't invent the term. However, I'd be surprised if anyone else has used it to describe a bike ride in many many years.

Except for the entire population of France. 

[Greenbank]

And wasn't the term (Audax) coined by Italians anyway?

[mark]

At least two North American cycle touring companies (Butterfield & Robinson, Backroads) charge similar prices for their cycling vacations (airfare not included), and they don't cover nearly the miles that the Rapha tours offer.

[mattc]

Audaxers didn't invent the term*. However, I'd be surprised if anyone else has used it to describe a bike ride in many many years.

Indeed no.  French people did, and they still use it to describe a variety of activities, not all of them bike-related.  Probably it's only anglophones like me who get a little frisson from seeing the word randonneur on the IGN maps.

The point is that Rapha are explicitly using it with reference to "Brevets"; nothing to do with long distance walking routes etc.

[DanialW]

Ach, who cares?

There's a market for this sort of trip. Rapha wanna do it, and rich boys wanna do it with them.

They're all consenting adults, so best of luck to them all.

[Greenbank]

reference to "Brevets"

What about a sub 50km off-road event being described/marketed as a Brevet?

[mattc]

reference to "Brevets"

What about a sub 50km off-road event being described/marketed as a Brevet?

Stop being so bloody inclusive. And anyway, Rapha say:

The traditional ‘Brevets’ and ‘Randonneur’ rides of Europe ...

Your example is not really what they're talking about, is it? Do you think the Rapha rides have the same intention as a £3 50k in Blighty?!?

[rottenhat]

The point is that Rapha are explicitly using it with reference to "Brevets"; nothing to do with long distance walking routes etc.

Ah, you're right...I think my brain exploded after reading the word "self-sufficiency" in an ad for a fully supported tour.