Author Topic: Random audax questions  (Read 166519 times)

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1000 on: October 03, 2017, 05:11:50 pm »
Cheers  :thumbsup:

Audax Ecosse - always going too far

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Centurion 17091
    • AUK results
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1001 on: October 03, 2017, 09:03:35 pm »
What happens if a shop or cafe till clock is off and it shows the riders as being too early or too late at an intermediate control on a perm/diy/x rated ride?

I've had this a few times.

A little note, and some fingers crossed have been okay for me on perms. Calendar events tend to mean everybody's are wrong, so no worry there.

Oddly enough it happened with today's receipts at Balcombe stores.
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dogtrousers

  • Pantaloon
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1002 on: November 27, 2017, 03:05:25 pm »
I'm thinking of being an AUK member next year... 

The basic fee for a new member is £19 for a calendar year, ending on December 31st, although new members joining late in the year will be subscribed until the end of the following year.

How late in the year is late?  It's not really important as I'm not planning to do any Audax events between now and Jan.  But I'm just curious.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1003 on: November 27, 2017, 03:11:20 pm »
After Aug 31st

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1004 on: November 27, 2017, 03:12:20 pm »
It's definitely "late" enough now. The membership application form confirms "rest of this year free".

Happy Audaxing!

dogtrousers

  • Pantaloon
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1005 on: November 27, 2017, 03:36:38 pm »
Thanks Si & Tony.  If I join  now it'll enable me to enter my planned early year rides as a member.

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Centurion 17091
    • AUK results
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1006 on: January 25, 2018, 09:36:46 pm »
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.

If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?

(I'm trying to get an untarnished 100AAA from BR or BRM this season, but like the look of a few shorter events coming up)
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1007 on: January 25, 2018, 09:50:24 pm »
AAA gets totalled with no regard to distance. If you want to make a distinction, that is up to you.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Centurion 17091
    • AUK results
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1008 on: January 25, 2018, 10:01:29 pm »
AAA gets totalled with no regard to distance. If you want to make a distinction, that is up to you.

But how does this page make the distinction?

http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1009 on: January 25, 2018, 10:22:52 pm »
I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1010 on: January 26, 2018, 10:57:07 am »
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.

If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?

(I'm trying to get an untarnished 100AAA from BR or BRM this season, but like the look of a few shorter events coming up)

Nominally, the BP event is administered as a standalone event with the ECE administered separately as an add-on, so if the BP has AAA points associated with it you should receive these automatically, regardless of the relative hillliness of the ECE.

The more interesting question is what happens if it's the ECE section which is eligible for AAA, or you have reason to belive there is a section of the BP and ECE route which in combination is eligible for AAA points. That you would have to take up with the ECE Secretary who I suspect would be sympathetic to your plight assuming you can provide appropriate evidence, i.e., a GPS track, to support your claim.
Anfractuous & Nyctophobic Oct 13       Willy Warmer Jan 19    Winter Boat Ride Feb 10

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1011 on: January 26, 2018, 02:58:13 pm »
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1012 on: January 26, 2018, 03:01:20 pm »
What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?

Removes the need for info controls to force the shortest-route-between-controls distance above the required minimum.

Also allows routes to be used where otherwise impossible to due lack of suitable control (or info control) locations.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1013 on: January 26, 2018, 09:03:31 pm »
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?

Mandatory DIYs work because YOU choose the route YOURSELF.

On a calendar Audax the route is set by the ORGANISER, but only to the extent that you must pass through all the controls.   Often on a route set by someone else I find some bits of the route are less than ideal for my particular riding likes.  For me this might mean avoiding scraggy muddy lanes, or bridleways, or 10 km long gravel tracks..  with a bit of work beforehand I can often avoid the crap...

There are organisers out there who like to make routes harder than they need to be, and others who feel that a bit of off-road toughens the soul. Sure I’m happy for them to preset a lot of climbing by siting controls on hilltops, but I’m not happy on letting them direct me over crap, nor on possibly being routed on a high speed HGV main road...

Mandatory for your own choice = YES PLEASE

Mandatory using someone else’s choice = NO THANKYOU
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

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frankly frankie

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1014 on: January 27, 2018, 09:24:39 am »
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.
If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?
But how does this page make the distinction?
http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php

I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.

Yes.

I think I would contest the original premise, that 100+100 = 2 perm points.  It may be, but any perm points are also BR points.  They have to be because Populaires don't carry points.
In this instance I think (without actually going through the 800 lines of code, which would be extremely tiresome) the AAA points follow suit. 

(The real problem is AUK's stupid insistence that ECEs are "a type of Permanent" - obviously thay are not.)  </rant>
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Virtual Alps
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1015 on: January 27, 2018, 09:42:19 am »
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?
Mandatory DIYs work because YOU choose the route YOURSELF.
On a calendar Audax the route is set by the ORGANISER, but only to the extent that you must pass through all the controls.   Often on a route set by someone else I find some bits of the route are less than ideal for my particular riding likes.

...

Mandatory using someone else’s choice = NO THANKYOU

Nevertheless the option does exist. 
Obviously you would need to be notified up-front, that it is to be run as a mandatory route - so you have the option of taking your custom elsewhere.

Here is such an event in the Calendar.  Note the 2nd line of red text, this is displayed for any mandatory route event.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-943/
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1016 on: January 27, 2018, 12:47:52 pm »
Thought I'd ask this here instead... What is the benefit/rationale behind use of a mandatory route for a calendar event?
Mandatory DIYs work because YOU choose the route YOURSELF.
On a calendar Audax the route is set by the ORGANISER, but only to the extent that you must pass through all the controls.   Often on a route set by someone else I find some bits of the route are less than ideal for my particular riding likes.

...

Mandatory using someone else’s choice = NO THANKYOU

Nevertheless the option does exist. 
Obviously you would need to be notified up-front, that it is to be run as a mandatory route - so you have the option of taking your custom elsewhere.

Here is such an event in the Calendar.  Note the 2nd line of red text, this is displayed for any mandatory route event.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-943/

Thanks.  This event has a mandatory route, though also 4 infos.
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

grams

  • London N19
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1017 on: January 27, 2018, 04:01:20 pm »
The organiser of that event (Manotea of this parish) has recently decided to run all his events as mandatory route. But that event has run many times previously so presumably the control format is unchanged.

It'd be interesting to know whether AUK would accept it if resubmitted with the info controls removed - I believe there've previously been few (or possibly zero) mandatory route calendar events, so we may be in uncharted territory.

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Centurion 17091
    • AUK results
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1018 on: January 27, 2018, 06:24:28 pm »
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.
If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?
But how does this page make the distinction?
http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php

I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.

Yes.

I think I would contest the original premise, that 100+100 = 2 perm points.  It may be, but any perm points are also BR points.  They have to be because Populaires don't carry points.
In this instance I think (without actually going through the 800 lines of code, which would be extremely tiresome) the AAA points follow suit. 

(The real problem is AUK's stupid insistence that ECEs are "a type of Permanent" - obviously thay are not.)  </rant>

I suppose there's only one way for me to find out......

I'll have a little peruse of the points table and see if I can find out.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Rule 77

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1019 on: January 27, 2018, 06:24:46 pm »
I’m confused as to why we seem to need mandatory calendar events.

Is the aim to check calendar event completion by GPS?

if so you don’t need manned or ‘receipt’ controls.....

Just set control points that everyone must ride through, just like DIYxGPS, but leave the rest of the route flexible to the individual’s choice.

If it’s really to avoid info controls on a calendar you can just set extra control points at the info positions, check the GPS, and of course you also won’t need volunteers at the normal control points.

If an organisers routes were already long enough with the controls and infos, why go mandatory - let’s just allow GPS monitoring for all.

Mind you there are many non GPS riders out there, and if organisers are going purely mandatory, how can a non GPS rider prove completion of the full mandatory route ? 

Mandatory calendar events would actually seem to discriminate against non GPS riders....

Maybe mandatory calendars are just to save the organisers doing any organising apart from route, start and arrivee ?
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1020 on: January 27, 2018, 06:34:28 pm »
I’m confused as to why we seem to need mandatory calendar events.

Because when we agreed to offer the option of mandatory routes, we thought it should apply to all categories of event, whether calendar, perm or DIY.

Very few calendar event organisers have opted for it, but it allows the option of planning a more convoluted route with the potential for shortcuts, without necessarily having to arrange an excessive number of controls.

There is no current provision for calendar events to offer GPS proof of passage. While it might become an option in the future, I don't see it becoming mandatory. Meantime, organisers can use (the threat of) secret controls to ensure route integrity on mandatory route events.

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Centurion 17091
    • AUK results
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1021 on: January 27, 2018, 06:39:58 pm »
If I ECE a 100+100, I get assigned 2perm points.
If it's a AAA event, but the ECE attracts no AAA, what would happen to my AAA poinmts? Would they stay assigned as BP or or would they become BR points?
But how does this page make the distinction?
http://www.aukweb.net/users/aaasec/aaa-total-brs.php

I imagine that frankly frankie knows the answer.

Yes.

I think I would contest the original premise, that 100+100 = 2 perm points.  It may be, but any perm points are also BR points.  They have to be because Populaires don't carry points.
In this instance I think (without actually going through the 800 lines of code, which would be extremely tiresome) the AAA points follow suit. 

(The real problem is AUK's stupid insistence that ECEs are "a type of Permanent" - obviously thay are not.)  </rant>

I suppose there's only one way for me to find out......

I'll have a little peruse of the points table and see if I can find out.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I have found and indivivual who has 11.5AAA points but is showing only 2 AAA points in the all round list - two AAA points which could only have come from 100+100 ECE.

It seems a BP + ECE AAA point is recorded as BR AAA points.

Rule 77

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1022 on: January 27, 2018, 06:40:56 pm »
I’m confused as to why we seem to need mandatory calendar events.

Because when we agreed to offer the option of mandatory routes, we thought it should apply to all categories of event, whether calendar, perm or DIY.

Very few calendar event organisers have opted for it, but it allows the option of planning a more convoluted route with the potential for shortcuts, without necessarily having to arrange an excessive number of controls.

There is no current provision for calendar events to offer GPS proof of passage. While it might become an option in the future, I don't see it becoming mandatory. Meantime, organisers can use (the threat of) secret controls to ensure route integrity on mandatory route events.

Thanks John for the clarification.

My opinion..
Secret controls are not very effective...... and can only prove that a rider was ‘on the route’ at that specific point...

Just ask a fast rider to text you when and where, and apart from that take the shortcuts...

Seem daft when we have mandatory DIYxGPS which checks everything.
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1023 on: January 27, 2018, 06:46:48 pm »
Every other country in the world manages to have compulsory route brevets and none of them require GPS tracks. Riders tend to self-police route deviations.

Secret controls can be at multiple locations along the route and there is no requirement for every rider in an event to have the same number of secret controls.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1024 on: January 27, 2018, 06:49:33 pm »
Infos are even less effective than secret controls, by that argument, especially as a secret control doesn't have to be in the same place for every rider.

It's more about working on the basis of trust but verify - we trust that riders will generally follow the rules and the route, and sometimes we verify that they're doing it.

I don't really care much if someone cheats - after all, they're only cheating themselves etc etc - but I do l like the system to ensure that if they're cheating, they're having to actively take steps to do so.