Top tips for going longer

[NeilP]

This has been a very interesting read. I've only ever done 4 x 200s and 1 x 300 and looking back I finished the 300 in better shape than any of my 200s and think this is due to food, on the 300 I ate beans on toast at the first control and then a chilli and chips later on...It was the 2016 Rough Diamond.
With my 200s I'm just looking to finish asap without actually blasting round so I feel reluctant to stop for proper food. My last 2 have been solo perms and on the last one I only used carb powder bottle refills and SiS gels, quickly thinking back I don't think I had any solid food. Finished in 9 1/2 hours (tad over 14mph).
I use a powermeter on every ride I do and this really helps to moderate efforts on the climbs, if I'm on the flat with a reasonable tailwind I'll definitely push on (a time trialling background really helps with this).
I'd like to be able to do my 200s faster than I currently am though, I'm pretty heavy (81kg) currently with a rack and mudguard laden bike so it's the slow pace on the climbs which is hitting my speed.

Very good thread though.

[Karla]

I use my heart rate as a guideline when I ride ....

however, I'm seriously thinking of getting a powermeter this year and I'm intersted to hear if anyone who rides long distance uses the data from the powermeter in conjuction with the HRM?

I use a PM on my TT bike.  I wouldn't bother using one for Audax: its main advantages over a HRM are that you can do aero testing (very tricky - believe me I've tried) and you can use it as a training tool, to tell you when you're ill/over-fatigued (i.e. your HR is higher than usual for a given power) and to do some very specific workouts.  As a gauge of effort, it doesn't really tell you anything that HR doesn't, and I find HR at least as useful during a race.

[dim]

I use my heart rate as a guideline when I ride ....

however, I'm seriously thinking of getting a powermeter this year and I'm intersted to hear if anyone who rides long distance uses the data from the powermeter in conjuction with the HRM?

I use a PM on my TT bike.  I wouldn't bother using one for Audax: its main advantages over a HRM are that you can do aero testing (very tricky - believe me I've tried) and you can use it as a training tool, to tell you when you're ill/over-fatigued (i.e. your HR is higher than usual for a given power) and to do some very specific workouts.  As a gauge of effort, it doesn't really tell you anything that HR doesn't, and I find HR at least as useful during a race.

The way I see it, is if you are riding a multi-day event such as Indipac, (and all things being equal), a powermeter will be very useful, as you will be able to see how much power you are producing in conjuction with how your heart is performing, irrespective of how fatigued you are.

As an example, you could set a target of 150W and you could set a target to keep your heart rate in Zone 2 ... (you will know what power you are capable of if you train beforehand with the powermeter.)

the 2 sets of data will be better than just heart rate data. You could be seriously fatigued and your heartrate on it's own will be meaningless as you would 'think' that you are doing OK, yet you are not producing enough power due to tiredness.

Most of the guys who I have spoken to, (who own powermeters) say that a powermeter is very important and many don't even bother at looking at their speed.

I'm seriously thinking about getting a power meter in a few months time.

[Manotea]

I'm thinking about getting a derailleur-geared bike.

[mattc]

Most of the guys who I have spoken to, (who own powermeters) say that a powermeter is very important

it's very unlikely that they want to justify spending the outrageous purchase price. Oh no ....

[NeilP]

I use my heart rate as a guideline when I ride ....

however, I'm seriously thinking of getting a powermeter this year and I'm intersted to hear if anyone who rides long distance uses the data from the powermeter in conjuction with the HRM?

I use a PM on my TT bike.  I wouldn't bother using one for Audax: its main advantages over a HRM are that you can do aero testing (very tricky - believe me I've tried) and you can use it as a training tool, to tell you when you're ill/over-fatigued (i.e. your HR is higher than usual for a given power) and to do some very specific workouts.  As a gauge of effort, it doesn't really tell you anything that HR doesn't, and I find HR at least as useful during a race.

I find this approach very strange. If you're going to the expense of getting a PM you really need to be using it on every ride otherwise the data you get from the metrics (if you still believe in all the CogganAllen stuff) is going to be meaningless. What if you don't ride your TT bike for 2 months but continue to train? Anyway, this is a whole different topic with many varied opinions.

[dim]

Most of the guys who I have spoken to, (who own powermeters) say that a powermeter is very important

it's very unlikely that they want to justify spending the outrageous purchase price. Oh no ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j--o2LNg_Qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_B_ue7L0rY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsigGSz6WZk

[rob]

I don’t use power for TTs or Audax.   HR/RPE is perfectly fine.

Of course, you can also just turn the data off and enjoy riding your bike a long way.

[mattc]

I use my heart rate as a guideline when I ride ....

however, I'm seriously thinking of getting a powermeter this year and I'm intersted to hear if anyone who rides long distance uses the data from the powermeter in conjuction with the HRM?

I use a PM on my TT bike.  I wouldn't bother using one for Audax: its main advantages over a HRM are that you can do aero testing (very tricky - believe me I've tried) and you can use it as a training tool, to tell you when you're ill/over-fatigued (i.e. your HR is higher than usual for a given power) and to do some very specific workouts.  As a gauge of effort, it doesn't really tell you anything that HR doesn't, and I find HR at least as useful during a race.

I find this approach very strange. If you're going to the expense of getting a PM you really need to be using it on every ride otherwise the data you get from the metrics (if you still believe in all the CogganAllen stuff) is going to be meaningless. What if you don't ride your TT bike for 2 months but continue to train? Anyway, this is a whole different topic with many varied opinions.

I'm guessing that;
- he rarely goes for 2 months without riding the TT bike (that would be a good way to de-train the relevant muscles. And
- having only one PM, it's too much hassle to often switch between bikes.

Not really very strange ...

[ElyDave]

I use my heart rate as a guideline when I ride ....

however, I'm seriously thinking of getting a powermeter this year and I'm intersted to hear if anyone who rides long distance uses the data from the powermeter in conjuction with the HRM?

I use a PM on my TT bike.  I wouldn't bother using one for Audax: its main advantages over a HRM are that you can do aero testing (very tricky - believe me I've tried) and you can use it as a training tool, to tell you when you're ill/over-fatigued (i.e. your HR is higher than usual for a given power) and to do some very specific workouts.  As a gauge of effort, it doesn't really tell you anything that HR doesn't, and I find HR at least as useful during a race.

I find this approach very strange. If you're going to the expense of getting a PM you really need to be using it on every ride otherwise the data you get from the metrics (if you still believe in all the CogganAllen stuff) is going to be meaningless. What if you don't ride your TT bike for 2 months but continue to train? Anyway, this is a whole different topic with many varied opinions.

I'm guessing that;
- he rarely goes for 2 months without riding the TT bike (that would be a good way to de-train the relevant muscles. And
- having only one PM, it's too much hassle to often switch between bikes.

Not really very strange ...

exactly, considering power meters are these days pedal, crank, hub based, swapping them between bikes for every ride is not trivial.

[NeilP]

Which is why I opted for Powertap hub, swappped over in minutes. Had 1 for 7 years or so, still works fine, and recently got a second hand G3 for £300. You don't have to spend nearly 4 figures.

[NeilP]

I use my heart rate as a guideline when I ride ....

however, I'm seriously thinking of getting a powermeter this year and I'm intersted to hear if anyone who rides long distance uses the data from the powermeter in conjuction with the HRM?

I use a PM on my TT bike.  I wouldn't bother using one for Audax: its main advantages over a HRM are that you can do aero testing (very tricky - believe me I've tried) and you can use it as a training tool, to tell you when you're ill/over-fatigued (i.e. your HR is higher than usual for a given power) and to do some very specific workouts.  As a gauge of effort, it doesn't really tell you anything that HR doesn't, and I find HR at least as useful during a race.

I find this approach very strange. If you're going to the expense of getting a PM you really need to be using it on every ride otherwise the data you get from the metrics (if you still believe in all the CogganAllen stuff) is going to be meaningless. What if you don't ride your TT bike for 2 months but continue to train? Anyway, this is a whole different topic with many varied opinions.

I'm guessing that;
- he rarely goes for 2 months without riding the TT bike (that would be a good way to de-train the relevant muscles. And
- having only one PM, it's too much hassle to often switch between bikes.

Not really very strange ...

It is strange. The whole basis of training with power is that you collect the data on a daily basis so you can use the metrics to monitor progression. If you have no data you have no idea where you are. It's no use setting yourself an FTP, then basing your training on this figure and then not using your PM in training.

Of course, if you feel the whole TSS, TSB, CTL malarkey is a load of old baloney then this wouldn't bother you but then why have a PM?

[Karla]

Neil, if you want to pay for me to have a PM on every bike, and to replace the bikes when they get nicked cos I've left the locked up with a £500 PM, he's very free.  Oh, and since lots of my riding is also commuting, so I suspect leaving my Power2Max to get banged up against the other bikes in the train will decalibrate it really fast, so it'll give junk data anyway.  It really is a bitch, having to work for a living.  If only someone would pay me to ride my bike all day, then I could use a PM on every ride, record all my metrics and work out meaningful values of TSS, CTL and all of Andrew Coggan's other markers. 

Would I buy one again?  Questionable.  It has its uses but for best use, you need to be doing all your exercise on a PM-equipped bike.  That's obviously fine if most or all of your cycling is for sport, but if a fair whack of it is for utility - like it is for me - then you lose the performance tracking benefits, so a PM is less good value.  Also, realistically I'm the sort of hobbyist who knows exactly what I could do to improve: ride my bike more, sleep more, give up the booze and generally have less fun outside cycling.  You don't need an electronic gadget to tell you that. 

When it gets to race day itself, I still think HR is more useful - and Rob is a good example of how much you can improve when you set your mind to it, without any of the latest fancy gadgets.

[Karla]

It is strange. The whole basis of training with power is that you collect the data on a daily basis so you can use the metrics to monitor progression.

Incorrect (and also rude).  It's a large part of the basis, but not the whole basis.  For other uses, read my post you originally quoted! 

As for Powertap hubs, they don't fit my use case.  I could go into the reasons why, but I really can't be bothered.

[NeilP]

That's it, you've assessed it perfectly, you're obviously not in a position to use one so you don't, that's fine. As I said, I went for 7 years or so with an ex-rental one, I too cannot afford to spend 4 figures on multiple crank based systems so a hub based one which is swapped between bikes in less than 5 minutes seemed the way to go. If I ever hear of someone I know saying they're getting a PM my first question is always "what are you going to do with it?". Too many people get one and then just don't use it properly.

I'm only commenting as someone previously said they only use one on their TT bike and I was questioning what value you would get from having a PM in that situation. For the vast majority of the time mine has been fitted on my winter/commuting bike or my TT bike which is on the turbo.

If you're not the sort of person who likes "the numbers" then all the stuff that goes along with a PM probably isn't going to interest you, personally I enjoy it.

[NeilP]

I'm sorry if you perceive what I've said to be rude, I'm not deliberately going out of my way to be rude. If someone thinks it's not strange to not use a PM as much as possible when they own one and I think it is strange then I'm going to try to explain why I think it is so. It's only a difference of opinion after all.

I'd say the number of people on here who have any interest in training with power compared to other cycling forums is likely to be fairly low anyhow but if you can get one I'm a firm believer that if used properly it would help people "go for longer" which is what this thread is about. I'll leave it at that.

[Karla]

That's it, you've assessed it perfectly, you're obviously not in a position to use one so you don't, that's fine.

Yes I use one.

I'm only commenting as someone previously said they only use one on their TT bike

That was me.

and I was questioning what value you would get from having a PM in that situation.

Go back to my post and I tell you exactly what use  I get out of it! 

[mattc]

Also, realistically I'm the sort of hobbyist who knows exactly what I could do to improve: ride my bike more, sleep more, give up the booze and generally have less fun outside cycling.  You don't need an electronic gadget to tell you that. 

Wise words!

(Cycling fora have too many numbers geeks who love talking stats; every single one has some other area that could improve their fitness just as much. )

[rob]

Also, realistically I'm the sort of hobbyist who knows exactly what I could do to improve: ride my bike more, sleep more, give up the booze and generally have less fun outside cycling.  You don't need an electronic gadget to tell you that. 

Wise words!

(Cycling fora have too many numbers geeks who love talking stats; every single one has some other area that could improve their fitness just as much. )

I’m going to get a t-shirt made with ‘go on....tell me what your FTP is again’

[cygnet]

Next time I attempt the 24hr I'm going to write out my schedule in Watts. It's the most reliable metric... 

[dim]

Next time I attempt the 24hr I'm going to write out my schedule in Watts. It's the most reliable metric... 

as hard as it sounds, sometimes you have to embrace newer technology (like it or not)....

like my Dad .... he said tubeless car tyres were a load of junk (he used to drive a Zepher Zodiac which had tubed tyres)

or my Mom who said that she will never ever buy a microwave or a mobile phone, as it was junk and it gave you cancer .... she used both daily after a few months

so, Hydraulic disk brakes, tubeless tyres and training/riding with a powermeter are here to stay and can only get better

obviously, if you own a Halfords Carrera with a Claris groupset, a powermeter will most probably not be a wise investment, as it will cost more than your bike

In 2 years time, all good new bikes will have hydraulic disk brakes, tubeless tyres and built in powermeters (I think the new/latest Dura Ace cranksets have a powermeter as standard, and most new top spec bikes come with tubeless ready rims as standard?   

[rob]

I think I’m in line with something Liam said a few weeks back.

It’s just not very nice round here any more.

[grams]

In 2 years time, all good new bikes will have hydraulic disk brakes, tubeless tyres and built in powermeters (I think the new/latest Dura Ace cranksets have a powermeter as standard, and most new top spec bikes come with tubeless ready rims as standard?   

The power meter is entirely optional and costs the best part of £1000 more than the non power meter version.

If you insist on insulting everyone who disagrees you on every thread, at least start from a point of not spouting utter nonsense.

[Ian H]

I think I’m in line with something Liam said a few weeks back.

It’s just not very nice round here any more.

Oi! Some of us are still extremely nice, you bastard!  (even if we use rim brakes and fixed-wheels).

[rob]

I think I’m in line with something Liam said a few weeks back.

It’s just not very nice round here any more.

Oi! Some of us are still extremely nice, you bastard!  (even if we use rim brakes and fixed-wheels).

Snigger