Dunwich dynamo as a DIY

[Wycombewheeler]

Would planning a diy with the dunwich dynamo as the first half (then riding home) be allowable or would it fall could if the rules on not riding with others who are not on your brevet?

[telstarbox]

I've had it validated as a DIY (without any before or after solo sections) and I'm sure the org was aware what I was doing from the event date and the control locations. As long as you still "travel to the support" e.g. pop up stalls I don't see how it contravenes the DIY FAQ.

[wilkyboy]

Let your DIY org know — I did a 400km DIY Cambridge-London-Dunwich-Cambridge and it was validated fine, in full knowledge that it was DD-extended.

[grams]

Yeah, I've done it a few times, as well as DIY'ing other similar events. I don't think DIY orgs enforce the not-riding-with-others rule.

Although beware it's only 185-ish km, so you have to do some extra before/during/after to make it work.

[Martin]

it's definitely allowed and I've done it (with proper controls rather than mandatory route, which involved riding down the coast to Leiston and back at the finish)

Certain rides such as the DD; the IOW Randonnee, the Vatternrundan 300 * in Sweden and Chase the Sun 300 all are deemed self sufficient and not paced so are allowed, we ought to compile a definitive list of ones which are I suppose

I think Manotea produced official guidance on this a few years back which will be in somewhere official on the AUK site

* if you did take full advantage of pacing on the VR you'd likely be DQ for an average over 30kph 

[Greenbank]

it's definitely allowed and I've done it (with proper controls rather than mandatory route, which involved riding down the coast to Leiston and back at the finish)

Is a control a Dunwich a tricky thing to get now? I just used a receipt from the cafe as PoP when I did it (2009?) but I realise that we might have been lucky having got there a little ahead of the bulge and got served (a cooked breakfast) with little queuing. I got a photo of me next to the Dunwich road sign as a backup just in case, the receipt didn't have much identifying info on it other than "The Beach Cafe" or something similar) but it was accepted without question.

*Digs around for original email to Andy Uttley*

> Controls are:
>
> Dorking: 0km
> Hackney: 47km
> Sudbury: 137km
> Dunwich: 217km (cafe by the beach)
> Sudbury: 297km
> Great Dunmow: 336km
> Putney: 407km
>
> Distances are Autoroute 2001 on Quickest 8/8/31/31/31.
> On shortest it comes out as 400.6km.

You can see I had to pull the start quite far back (with a nice warm up of Box Hill) as Autoroute gave Hackney/Sudbury/Dunwich as only 180km.

* if you did take full advantage of pacing on the VR you'd likely be DQ for an average over 30kph 

It's not an automatic DQ though is it? I thought you just got a time penalty equal to how early you were for every control you were early, i.e. if you were 15 minutes early at the first control, 30 minutes early at another control, and 45 minutes early at the finish then you got a time penalty of 1h30m in total, which is rarely a problem if you arrive early at the finish. To DQ you'd need a considerable total of 'early penalties' or slow down at the end and finish with little in time (so that the penalties take you over time).

[Martin]

it's definitely allowed and I've done it (with proper controls rather than mandatory route, which involved riding down the coast to Leiston and back at the finish)

Is a control a Dunwich a tricky thing to get now?

dunno I did it by GPS; think it might be tricky by paper as many of the places listed in my DIY wouldn't even have receipt potential in daylight on a weekday!

* if you did take full advantage of pacing on the VR you'd likely be DQ for an average over 30kph 

It's not an automatic DQ though is it? [/quote]

It was intended as a joke as there's a sizeable "sub 9" group who do it. When I did it (not as a DIY) I thought I'd try to slash my UK 300 PB by 2 hrs and finish in 12, in the end I posted 10.55

IIRC if you want to DIY a non AUK / BRM event you need to provide details to the DIY org before the event so it can be considered. I've done French events as DIYs but by the time I finished the only person giving pace was the man putting traffic cones back on the back of a lorry. It's a bit of an arcane law intended IIRC to prevent PBP riders taking help; but has been used to correctly validate the riders on the HBKH 1500

[quixoticgeek]

How does the not riding with people not on the brevett thing work with people who pay, ride, but aren't being validated, or to tie it back to the thread long ago about audaxing and e-bikes, where an ebiker has been allowed to ride, on the understanding they can't be validated. Sitting on the wheel of an e-bike that's doing the ride but not validated, is that different?

J

[bhoot]

I think this page is relevant https://audax.uk/static-data/participation-in-non-aukacprm/

[Greenbank]

I think this page is relevant https://audax.uk/static-data/participation-in-non-aukacprm/

It's relevant although this wording:-

"
DIY organisers will only accept such events if they conform with similar standards to AUK events, so they must be non-competitive, have recognised controls that ensure the registered distance is completed, and support is not provided on the route.
"

is not as specific as the old site: http://www.aukweb.net/diy/diyfaaq/#19

"
FAQ19: I have entered a cycling event that is not an AUK, BRM or LRM event. Can I also ride it as an AUK DIY event at the same time?

Possibly, but read on.

Other cycle events may be concurrently ridden as DIY events providing the normal AUK requirements for DIY events are met. Riders should submit a DIY Perm application to the DIY Organiser and subsequently submit ‘Proofs of Passage’ for validation as normal. Include details about the ‘other’ event in the additional information area of the DIY application form. Where the organising body ‘validates’ the riders participation in the event, such validation might, with the prior agreement of the AUK DIY organiser, be used as ‘Proof of Passage’ for the AUK brevet. Factors which need to be considered in assessing whether the external event is eligible for inclusion in an AUK brevet include:

Distance - the ride must conform to AUK regulations regarding controls, distance and the collection of appropriate ‘Proof of Passage’.

Support - this would follow the usual practice for audax events in each country. In the UK, personal support is not permitted outside of designated controls and riders travel to support, not support to the rider.

Competition - the event must be non-competitive, as required by AUK regulations and insurance.
"

So, being able to draft other riders on VR300 or DD is no different from entering any big Audax like PBP or LEL and working in groups to finish the ride. Everyone riding an event like that has equal access to this as there are plenty of people who they can form groups with (although those who are faster will have more options).

[Have created a new thread: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112596.0 for drafting e-bike discussion rather than derail this one.]

[inappropriate_bike]

I did it as a DIY by GPS.

Inserting this detour into the route on the return bought it up to 400km:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/21693309

[Martin]

So, being able to draft other riders on VR300 or DD is no different from entering any big Audax like PBP or LEL and working in groups to finish the ride. Everyone riding an event like that has equal access to this as there are plenty of people who they can form groups with (although those who are faster will have more options).

well you have up 24hr to complete the VR300 (you select a start time, if it's full you start earlier, most riders would rather go for the 0200-0300 because it gives you about 15hrs to finish and is almost all in daylight) so if you take it that you would only complete the actual event in less than 15hrs if you draft then you could say it's not allowed. If you require drafting to complete the actual event in 21hrs (the DIY maximum time) you are likely going to be taking draft from people on shopping bikes!

i know there's a school of thought that unless it's a proper Audax it doesn't count and you should just enjoy it as a bike ride but I think we've mostly moved on from that.

[grams]

Can anyone give an example of an event that *wouldn't* be allowed as a DIY?

(assuming the basic route, PoP, time and distance considerations are met)

[quixoticgeek]

Dunno if it was sarcasm on twitter, but Ian Walker seemed to imply he was doing his Europe end to end record attempt as a DIY, worth 63 points. He's the only one on the road, so it's not competitive, other than the fact there are 3 people competing to break the record this summer...

J

[Phil W]

Dunno if it was sarcasm on twitter, but Ian Walker seemed to imply he was doing his Europe end to end record attempt as a DIY, worth 63 points. He's the only one on the road, so it's not competitive, other than the fact there are 3 people competing to break the record this summer...

J

Slightly off topic but looked up Ian Walker and flicked through a few of his tweets and came across such gems as

24-hour sausage vending machine. Oh, Germany...

https://twitter.com/ianwalker/status/1145229684965347328

and

My Russian is rusty, but it seems "Open 24 hours" when used by McDonald's and Shell translates to "Ha ha ha fuck you and your breakfast"

https://twitter.com/ianwalker/status/1143327270075080704

[Greenbank]

Can anyone give an example of an event that *wouldn't* be allowed as a DIY?

(assuming the basic route, PoP, time and distance considerations are met)

Etape
Prudential 100
Cycling leg of a triathlon.

All of them I'd guess would fail on the 'competitive' element since they are timed and places/times are published.

"Competition - the event must be non-competitive, as required by AUK regulations and insurance."

[Wycombewheeler]

Yeah, I've done it a few times, as well as DIY'ing other similar events. I don't think DIY orgs enforce the not-riding-with-others rule.

Although beware it's only 185-ish km, so you have to do some extra before/during/after to make it work.

Plotted  my route london marylebone-London fields-dunwich-high wycombe  comes out as 410km. Route will need adjusting to match the official DD route and to make sure I find some breakfast after reaching the beach but I'm sure I cut will still be over 400.