Author Topic: Weight Loss Discussion Thread (Read 1300700 times)

Feline · « **Reply #3300 on:** 27 June, 2012, 09:07:10 pm »

I fell off the wagon a while back which I was getting away with because of all the miles. I'm now off the bike again letting the knee get properly right so I need to start watching what I put in at the head end.
Back to MFP now, logging food seems to keep me a bit better under control.

I've figured out what the major flaw is with the MFP calculations of calories burned. Say your base calorie requirement is for example 2000 calories a day, and you then log an activity that burned 4000 calories over 8 hours. You have not used 6000 calories that day, because you need to subtract those 8 hours from the basal amount. This means you burn 4000 in the 8 hours you were exercising and 1360 in the 16 that you weren't. I think MFP ignores this and so double counts all your basal metabolic rate calories the whole time you are exercising. Clearly that wouldn't make much difference for someone doing a hard workout for 30 mins a day, but for a long distance cyclist it would.

Auntie Helen · « **Reply #3301 on:** 27 June, 2012, 09:09:42 pm »

Isn't there something in the MFP FAQs about this where they say they do take it into account? I'm sure I read it somewhere.

There was another diet site I looked at initially (their App was annoying though as only US measurements which was hopeless) which, when you added exercise, it asked if it was taking the time from your day activities or from your sleeping amount (they split the day into basic activity when awake and calorie burn when asleep) which I thought was a really good idea, or made sense to me. So it gave you a base amount of, say, 1500cal which was for 16 hours awake and 8 asleep and this amount adjusted if you did an hour's exercise you had 15 hours awake, 8 hours asleep, 1 hour exercise.

Feline · « **Reply #3302 on:** 27 June, 2012, 09:17:55 pm »

I've checked mine and my goal calories (which are basically BMR as I've set it to sedentary) plus the exercise calories is taken as net calories, from which the food is deducted. There's none taken off the BMR for period of time I was exercising there that I can see (unless there is something I am missing!).

Wowbagger · « **Reply #3303 on:** 27 June, 2012, 09:38:43 pm »

I'm struggling as well, and have had another gradual increase. this morning, at 111kg, is a few hundred grammes up on last week, which I'm hoping was mostly down to last night's birthday curry.

Tomorrow I think I'll take up cycling.

L CC · « **Reply #3304 on:** 27 June, 2012, 09:45:25 pm »

Quote from: Feline on 27 June, 2012, 09:17:55 pm

I've checked mine and my goal calories (which are basically BMR as I've set it to sedentary) plus the exercise calories is taken as net calories, from which the food is deducted. There's none taken off the BMR for period of time I was exercising there that I can see (unless there is something I am missing!).

Dunno about you, but my BMR is still ticking away in the background when I'm exercising. All those basic functions are still going on.
It may well undercount the exercise calories because (for example) an experienced cyclist will be more efficient, but that's not the same as not needing the BMR calories.

Feline · « **Reply #3305 on:** 27 June, 2012, 10:00:50 pm »

Quote from: fboab on 27 June, 2012, 09:45:25 pm

Quote from: Feline on 27 June, 2012, 09:17:55 pm
I've checked mine and my goal calories (which are basically BMR as I've set it to sedentary) plus the exercise calories is taken as net calories, from which the food is deducted. There's none taken off the BMR for period of time I was exercising there that I can see (unless there is something I am missing!).
Dunno about you, but my BMR is still ticking away in the background when I'm exercising. All those basic functions are still going on.
It may well undercount the exercise calories because (for example) an experienced cyclist will be more efficient, but that's not the same as not needing the BMR calories.

The calories reflect total used not just those in excess of BMR though. It means unless you adjust down either the activity level or the time then you could think you have more calories left over to eat than you actually do.

I've found the MFP calories correlate pretty well with estimates from my HR monitor, and Simon has cross checked with his power tap and they are pretty good. But unless they deduct your BMR hourly they would be an overestimate.
I just thought this could explain why some people are following it pretty exactly and not losing weight, such as Lady C.

Lady Cavendish · « **Reply #3306 on:** 27 June, 2012, 10:16:52 pm »

Just caught up with this..... I agree I don't think they are right but I just totally ignore all of MFPs exercise calories and just give myself 300 cals an hour for cycling.

Even on that I don't lose weight.

I eat less than 2000 a day and exercise 4 hours on weekdays, plus an audax at the weekend (I prob eat 2500 on audax days)

I don't know what else I can do

Lady Cavendish · « **Reply #3307 on:** 27 June, 2012, 10:18:12 pm »

And fwiw- I give myself 300 an hour on MFP- but I don't eat all my calories if that makes sense....

L CC · « **Reply #3308 on:** 27 June, 2012, 10:24:28 pm »

Quote from: Feline on 27 June, 2012, 10:00:50 pm

I've found the MFP calories correlate pretty well with estimates from my HR monitor, and Simon has cross checked with his power tap and they are pretty good. But unless they deduct your BMR hourly they would be an overestimate.

If you use the HRM when you're not exercising, how many calories does it say you're using?
If it says you're using none, you're OK to ignore BMR. If it says you're using calories, you can use that for your BMR.

Quote from: Lady Cavendish on 27 June, 2012, 10:16:52 pm

I don't know what else I can do

Rest. Give your body a day off a week to recover.

Feline · « **Reply #3309 on:** 27 June, 2012, 10:36:19 pm »

Quote from: Lady Cavendish on 27 June, 2012, 10:16:52 pm

I don't know what else I can do

I would have a go at radically changing which food types you are getting the calories from. Personally I find carbs are the devil, and I need to limit them to as few simple ones as possible (and eat only small quantities of whole grains).

I might not be a very good example to follow though because Simon (who can smell ketones, only a few people can) has noticed I go ketotic after long rides (or even medium ones sometimes). I must be breaking down a lot of fat and protein to supply myself with energy during the rides for this to happen.

If you actually want to try this on purpose then eat a diet of veggies, seeds, nuts, eggs and chicken breasts and nothing much else for a while. Avoid sugars, cereals, bread, potatoes, pasta and rice. I find this pretty easy to do by removing anything else from the house, but the hard bit is still to exercise while you are doing it. Robert Millar did rather well using that technique (although he didn't do the chicken breast or egg bit and was mostly vegan).

Butterfly · « **Reply #3310 on:** 27 June, 2012, 10:42:40 pm »

I gained a kg this week

. I think I'm doing this wrong

.

simonp · « **Reply #3311 on:** 27 June, 2012, 11:41:06 pm »

My BMR is estimated at 1628kcal/day but MFP calculates 2040 kcal/day to maintain weight. This is because a normal, even sedentary life is still above-BMR. BMR would be for doing nothing all day at all, just lying in bed. 2040 is my TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) using terminology used on the MFP forums.

I think that MFP makes an allowance for BMR but if you claim a higher base energy use than is realistic, then you’ll be off. I’ve certainly not found I’ve needed to subtract BMR from exercise calories to lose weight. In fact initially I was finding the 200kcal/day deficit leaving me a bit hungry.

I would suggest applying a scaling factor (e.g. multiplying exercise minutes by 0.

would be simpler than adjusting for BMR if you think the exercise allowances are too high.

simonp · « **Reply #3312 on:** 27 June, 2012, 11:53:28 pm »

Quote from: Feline on 27 June, 2012, 10:36:19 pm

I might not be a very good example to follow though because Simon (who can smell ketones, only a few people can) has noticed I go ketotic after long rides (or even medium ones sometimes). I must be breaking down a lot of fat and protein to supply myself with energy during the rides for this to happen.

I’ve only noticed twice: after the Brevet Cymru and after the Bryan Chapman. You ate about half as much food as I did on those rides.

Feline · « **Reply #3313 on:** 28 June, 2012, 12:10:28 am »

Quote from: simonp on 27 June, 2012, 11:53:28 pm

Quote from: Feline on 27 June, 2012, 10:36:19 pm
I might not be a very good example to follow though because Simon (who can smell ketones, only a few people can) has noticed I go ketotic after long rides (or even medium ones sometimes). I must be breaking down a lot of fat and protein to supply myself with energy during the rides for this to happen.

I’ve only noticed twice: after the Brevet Cymru and after the Bryan Chapman. You ate about half as much food as I did on those rides.

I always eat about half as much food as you do

Lady Cavendish · « **Reply #3314 on:** 28 June, 2012, 08:41:30 am »

Like you Feline, I don't eat many carbs. I have a bowl of porridge for breakfast, and then after that try to hardly have any. I can put on half a stone from looking at a plate of pasta.

I do tend to have something more carb heavy the night before an Audax, but my other meals are pretty low on them, and I certainly don't eat any of that processed rubbish.

I'm lucky in that I totally love salads when they have lots of different things in them, so I often make myself 'exciting' salads for lunch/dinner with yummy ingredients.

hellymedic · « **Reply #3315 on:** 28 June, 2012, 09:47:06 am »

David weighed me last night. I was 69kg, 2kg less than last weigh-in ages ago.
This means I've breached the 11 stone/70kg barrier and my BMI <25.
Result!

mcshroom · « **Reply #3316 on:** 28 June, 2012, 10:46:18 am »

Well done Helly

I'll have to get back on the waggon when I get back home, although I think I've lost some weight while touring.

jogler · « **Reply #3317 on:** 28 June, 2012, 11:03:01 am »

yep,

for helly.

I lose very little weight,if any, while touring 'cause I eat for England 'cause feeling hungry turns me into a mega grumpy miserable bastard Mr. Hyde.
My cure is full english breakfasts,snickers bars & cakes & crisps & lucozade during the day: a 3 course evening meal & a couple of pints of Guiness in the evening.Midnight snacks are not unkown.

I also tone-up in that some of the lard turns to muscle which as we know is bad karma weight wise

SteveC · « **Reply #3318 on:** 28 June, 2012, 12:19:47 pm »

I'm quite pleased with the one pound loss this week. Effectively this means that my current lifestyle (three days--two nights--a week away from home so eating out and not cycle commuting) enables me to hold position. That should mean that when I finish this secondment I'll be able to get back to losing weight without too much hassle. Also, when I get back home full time, MrsC has indicated that she needs to seriously diet again so there will be an extra incentive.

S

Feline · « **Reply #3319 on:** 28 June, 2012, 12:30:44 pm »

That's great news Helly

It must take an iron will to lose weight without being able to exercise. Chapeau!

hellymedic · « **Reply #3320 on:** 28 June, 2012, 12:52:50 pm »

Thanks all. I think it's easier if I'm neither exercising nor working. I get ratty if hungry and bonked out when cycling. This way I just get hungry and CBA to get off my perch to eat. I'm told missing meals is bad but I do this occasionally, otherwise having reasonable, well-balanced foods.
I'd still like to get to about 10 stone.

Marmitegeoff · « **Reply #3321 on:** 28 June, 2012, 06:59:01 pm »

Well done indeed Helly, it is hard enough when I can exercise.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #3322 on:** 28 June, 2012, 09:42:15 pm »

Well done, Helly!

citoyen · « **Reply #3323 on:** 29 June, 2012, 11:10:47 am »

Well done, Helly!

I'm having an enforced day off the bike today, which is good because I need the rest, but I find it shockingly easy to use up my daily calorie allowance very quickly when I'm not doing any exercise.

I like food waaaay too much.

d.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #3324 on:** 29 June, 2012, 12:01:32 pm »

Auntie Helen and I were discussing this very problem yesterday. Our weight loss this year has been fairly similar, and we have both "hit the buffers" at roughly the same time. After a 10 or 11 kg loss, each of us has had a holiday and one or two other interruptions to routine and we have put a bit of weight on again.

As AH said, effectively we're condemned to a life of calorie counting if we wants to keep the weight off or lose more, and that's not a pleasant prospect. Neither is cycling for 3 hours every day just to burn the excessive calories that our "natural state" expects us to ingest.

Being permanently hungry makes it extremely difficult to concentrate on anything else.