Weight Loss Discussion Thread

[Phil21]

3kg in 3 weeks is a ridiculous amount to lose. 1kg of fat is about 7500 calories, so that would mean a deficit of 1000 calories per day. Completely unsustainable and probably not real at all. I weigh myself most mornings and the daily fluctuation due to water loss/retention and toilet usage can easily be more than 1 kg.

[chrisbainbridge]

We have had an incredibly stressful time for the last 3 years and we comfort eat so we slowly regained most of the weight we lost 4 years ago.  Not helped by being ill over the summer and taking a long time to recuperate.  So we have started the Michael Mosley recommended 800 calorie keto diet and plan to continue until Easter.  We know keto suits us, loads of green vegetable to fill up on with a 90% vinegar/10% oil dressing and chicken/ fish for protein.  This is combined with going teetotal until Easter.

We started last Friday after returning from holiday and I am 5 pounds down.  Mostly water and I am certainly not doing any HIIT sessions for a while.  Not really feeling hungry, headaches and off colour feeling for first 3-4 days but feeling fine now. 

Basically the same diet that the NHS now recommends for Type 2 diabetics to put them back into normal sugar range and it is remarkably efficient.  We are also eating a helping of live unpasteurised kimchi/sauerkraut everyday.

[chrisbainbridge]

3kg in 3 weeks is a ridiculous amount to lose. 1kg of fat is about 7500 calories, so that would mean a deficit of 1000 calories per day. Completely unsustainable and probably not real at all. I weigh myself most mornings and the daily fluctuation due to water loss/retention and toilet usage can easily be more than 1 kg.

Not at all ridiculous.  It is now the recommended method of losing weight, reversing insulin resistance, reversing fatty liver for people with Type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome and an increasing number of conditions.  Diet was developed by a professor of Diabetes at Newcastle University medical school with professor of nutrition in Glasgow and has now been trialled worldwide with the same results.

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

As a result of the new understanding of type 2 diabetes, NHS England has conducted a pilot scheme to determine the most cost effective way of delivering remission of type 2 diabetes. In the first few thousand people, weight loss was a remarkable 10.3kg. This success led to the scheme being rolled out as a national programme throughout England. It requires referral from a general practitioner to join this 12 month programme. All participants have to be aged 25 to 65 years and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in the last 6 years. At present, participants have to have a BMI over 27kg/m2. Full details are available on: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/

and
https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/362/bmj.k3760.full.pdf

Abstract
Objective To test the effectiveness and safety of a total diet replacement (TDR) programme for routine treatment of obesity in a primary care setting.

Design Pragmatic, two arm, parallel group, open label, individually randomised controlled trial.

Setting 10 primary care practices in Oxfordshire, UK.

Participants 278 adults who were obese and seeking support to lose weight: 138 were assigned to the TDR programme and 140 to usual care. 73% of participants were re-measured at 12 months.

Interventions The TDR programme comprised weekly behavioural support for 12 weeks and monthly support for three months, with formula food products providing 810 kcal/day (3389 kJ/day) as the sole food during the first eight weeks followed by reintroduction of food. Usual care comprised behavioural support for weight loss from a practice nurse and a diet programme with modest energy restriction.

Main outcome measures The primary outcome was weight change at 12 months analysed as intention to treat with mixed effects models. Secondary outcomes included biomarkers of cardiovascular and metabolic risk. Adverse events were recorded.

Results Participants in the TDR group lost more weight (−10.7 kg) than those in the usual care group (−3.1 kg): adjusted mean difference −7.2 kg (95% confidence interval −9.4 to −4.9 kg). 45% of participants in the TDR group and 15% in the usual care group experienced weight losses of 10% or more. The TDR group showed greater improvements in biomarkers of cardiovascular and metabolic risk than the usual care group. 11% of participants in the TDR group and 12% in the usual care group experienced adverse events of moderate or greater severity.

Conclusions Compared with regular weight loss support from a practice nurse, a programme of weekly behavioural support and total diet replacement providing 810 kcal/day seems to be tolerable, and leads to substantially greater weight loss and greater improvements in the risk of cardiometabolic disease.

Trial registration International Standard Randomised Controlled Trials No ISRCTN75092026.

[L CC]

It's a shame the NHS are so inconsistent with recommending it.

I went to (Durham & Darlington Trust) NHS weight loss stuff for a while - mostly to get access to the 'relationship with food' therapy. The diet they were expecting me to follow, requested, based on my mass, NINE portions of carbs a day.
When I pointed out this was not the diet Diabetes UK recommended, they told me that I shouldn't be surprised I'm not losing weight when I wasn't following their recommendations which are based on 'evidence' and 'scientific research'. Most of the participants were there as a precursor to bariatric surgery. The CBT I did with them was a bit shite too.

[Blodwyn Pig]

what happens to past weight reports, ie 2023,22,21 etc are they still around, would be good to check oneself against previous oneself's's at a particular time of year, ie NOW .

[chrisbainbridge]

It's a shame the NHS are so inconsistent with recommending it.

I went to (Durham & Darlington Trust) NHS weight loss stuff for a while - mostly to get access to the 'relationship with food' therapy. The diet they were expecting me to follow, requested, based on my mass, NINE portions of carbs a day.
When I pointed out this was not the diet Diabetes UK recommended, they told me that I shouldn't be surprised I'm not losing weight when I wasn't following their recommendations which are based on 'evidence' and 'scientific research'. Most of the participants were there as a precursor to bariatric surgery. The CBT I did with them was a bit shite too.

I agree it is very inconsistent. I have found the books by Michael Mosley, a GP, very helpful. I don’t think most of us need the counselling - we want to lose weight. We need advice on what 800calories is and how to feed ourselves.

[Bromptonlad]

It's a shame the NHS are so inconsistent with recommending it.

I went to (Durham & Darlington Trust) NHS weight loss stuff for a while - mostly to get access to the 'relationship with food' therapy. The diet they were expecting me to follow, requested, based on my mass, NINE portions of carbs a day.
When I pointed out this was not the diet Diabetes UK recommended, they told me that I shouldn't be surprised I'm not losing weight when I wasn't following their recommendations which are based on 'evidence' and 'scientific research'. Most of the participants were there as a precursor to bariatric surgery. The CBT I did with them was a bit shite too.

I agree it is very inconsistent. I have found the books by Michael Mosley, a GP, very helpful. I don’t think most of us need the counselling - we want to lose weight. We need advice on what 800calories is and how to feed ourselves.

800 calories is a bit less than the daily average provided in a nazi concentration camp… although of course proteins were harder to come by.
For what is worth, a supermarket double sandwich pack with egg and cress on granary is about 400kcal… living on two of those a day, or the equivalent, for a long stint must be my definition of hell on earth. Respect if you can keep going and function

[Regulator]

3kg in 3 weeks is a ridiculous amount to lose. 1kg of fat is about 7500 calories, so that would mean a deficit of 1000 calories per day. Completely unsustainable and probably not real at all. I weigh myself most mornings and the daily fluctuation due to water loss/retention and toilet usage can easily be more than 1 kg.

Not at all.  1kg/2lbs a week is what you'd expect to lose on a weekly basis on most reasonable diets - possibly more if it were lower carb.

[L CC]

what happens to past weight reports, ie 2023,22,21 etc are they still around, would be good to check oneself against previous oneself's's at a particular time of year, ie NOW .

Yes, still around, just buried deep.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=124822.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=121912.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117930.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=114399.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=110612.0

[Blodwyn Pig]

what happens to past weight reports, ie 2023,22,21 etc are they still around, would be good to check oneself against previous oneself's's at a particular time of year, ie NOW .

Yes, still around, just buried deep.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=124822.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=121912.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117930.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=114399.0

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=110612.0

Ooo-   Time to scare oneself, innit. Cheers


EDIT,  Some scary sh*t there, 10kg in 5 years, Arrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chrisbainbridge]

It's a shame the NHS are so inconsistent with recommending it.

I went to (Durham & Darlington Trust) NHS weight loss stuff for a while - mostly to get access to the 'relationship with food' therapy. The diet they were expecting me to follow, requested, based on my mass, NINE portions of carbs a day.
When I pointed out this was not the diet Diabetes UK recommended, they told me that I shouldn't be surprised I'm not losing weight when I wasn't following their recommendations which are based on 'evidence' and 'scientific research'. Most of the participants were there as a precursor to bariatric surgery. The CBT I did with them was a bit shite too.

I agree it is very inconsistent. I have found the books by Michael Mosley, a GP, very helpful. I don’t think most of us need the counselling - we want to lose weight. We need advice on what 800calories is and how to feed ourselves.

800 calories is a bit less than the daily average provided in a nazi concentration camp… although of course proteins were harder to come by.
For what is worth, a supermarket double sandwich pack with egg and cress on granary is about 400kcal… living on two of those a day, or the equivalent, for a long stint must be my definition of hell on earth. Respect if you can keep going and function

Whey protein after weight lifting. Then 3 rashers of bacon and a microwave egg for lunch. Mid afternoon is knorr stockpot in 500ml of hot water.
492 calories so far today. Then chicken, aubergine, courgette and tomato for tea. May be 820.   O shortage of food. Plus a helping of kimchi.

[Regulator]

Has anyone signed up to Zoe nutrition programme yet?

Here is a podcast on gut health: https://podcasts.captivate.fm/media/9e9d2f54-6c10-4112-abe3-c33037058b00/49-5-Best-of-Gut-Health-anniversary-edition-mixed.mp3

Missed that post. I signed up and I’m still doing it, although my “membership” comes to an end soon. I have found it really useful. I wasn’t overweight to start with so I did it out of interest and because I was a bit concerned about my sugar intake. Gut health assessment result was “poor”. Everything else (how I handle fat and sugar) was OK, though better for fats. The most useful part of the process, for me, was wearing the glucose monitor. Two of the things that caused the largest blood glucose spikes were porridge and bananas. Porridge surprised me as I had thought it was “slow release” but not so for me. In general, for me, any kind of grain is bad, regardless of form. Even the “healthiest” of mueslis etc. Potatoes: bad.

I now eat much less rice, potato, pasta, porridge, don’t have any kind of cereal, and I eat a lot more nuts, legumes and leafy stuff, amongst other changes that essentially amount to an increase in variety.

[Edited to add: which all may seem elementary, but until I logged and analysed my diet and used the Zoe food scoring, I was not aware of the impact of eating a relatively small amount of “bad” foods even when eating mostly good things. One or two portions of relatively poor quality foods (as per Zoe scoring) is enough to undo a day of eating optimally aside from that portion or two.]

Can poo for England.

My main criticism of the Zoe thing is that for the price it really should include a follow-up blood and shite test.

Mine did. 

And you're on the button about the impact of poor foods.  But I was in the first UK group, so that might account for it.

I need to get back to doing Zoe a bit more diligently...  I've had other things on my mind.

[hellymedic]

Don’t worry!
There are big fluid shifts associated with the carbs in your diet.
A big initial weight loss isn’t fat.

Don’t let disappointment with a temporary blip turn into a major failure to reduce body fat.

Persistence and ‘good habits’ are the only sustainable ways to lose body fat...

[Bromptonlad]

Not overweight, BMI hovering around 21-22. but always wish to be lighter as the racing season approaches.
To my astonishment, I was caught out with high cholesterol, 6.2 total, although the HDL is reasonably high, so the ratio is in the healthy range… blood pressure not great either 130-140 systolic.
So I went the other way, no more dairy fat, no more meat other than the leanest, replaced milk with oats substitute and cut on the amount of salt… inevitably I eat more carbs, which are plenty even where vegetable protein is to be found.
Lost three pounds in a month out of a carb loaded diet…   

[Phil21]

Who mentioned diabetes? Why did you bring it up? Anyway, the links you posted don't support your argument at all.

3kg in 3 weeks is a ridiculous amount to lose. 1kg of fat is about 7500 calories, so that would mean a deficit of 1000 calories per day. Completely unsustainable and probably not real at all. I weigh myself most mornings and the daily fluctuation due to water loss/retention and toilet usage can easily be more than 1 kg.

Not at all ridiculous.  It is now the recommended method of losing weight, reversing insulin resistance, reversing fatty liver for people with Type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome and an increasing number of conditions.  Diet was developed by a professor of Diabetes at Newcastle University medical school with professor of nutrition in Glasgow and has now been trialled worldwide with the same results.

Main outcome measures The primary outcome was weight change at 12 months analysed as intention to treat with mixed effects models. Secondary outcomes included biomarkers of cardiovascular and metabolic risk. Adverse events were recorded.

Results Participants in the TDR group lost more weight (−10.7 kg)...

So the people on this super-duper medically monitored diet lost....drum roll... 10.7kg in 12 months. Less than a kilo per month.
Whereas 3kg in 3 weeks extrapolates to ... 52kg per year.

[L CC]

Weight loss isn't linear.

[Regulator]

Weight loss isn't linear.

Absolutely.  You tend to lose weight quickly to begin with, then level off/plateau.

[Phil21]

Exactly my point. In any case, I'm done here.

[rr]

3kg in 3 weeks is a ridiculous amount to lose. 1kg of fat is about 7500 calories, so that would mean a deficit of 1000 calories per day. Completely unsustainable and probably not real at all. I weigh myself most mornings and the daily fluctuation due to water loss/retention and toilet usage can easily be more than 1 kg.

Not at all ridiculous.  It is now the recommended method of losing weight, reversing insulin resistance, reversing fatty liver for people with Type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome and an increasing number of conditions.  Diet was developed by a professor of Diabetes at Newcastle University medical school with professor of nutrition in Glasgow and has now been trialled worldwide with the same results.

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

As a result of the new understanding of type 2 diabetes, NHS England has conducted a pilot scheme to determine the most cost effective way of delivering remission of type 2 diabetes. In the first few thousand people, weight loss was a remarkable 10.3kg. This success led to the scheme being rolled out as a national programme throughout England. It requires referral from a general practitioner to join this 12 month programme. All participants have to be aged 25 to 65 years and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in the last 6 years. At present, participants have to have a BMI over 27kg/m2. Full details are available on: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/

and
https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/362/bmj.k3760.full.pdf

Abstract
Objective To test the effectiveness and safety of a total diet replacement (TDR) programme for routine treatment of obesity in a primary care setting.

Design Pragmatic, two arm, parallel group, open label, individually randomised controlled trial.

Setting 10 primary care practices in Oxfordshire, UK.

Participants 278 adults who were obese and seeking support to lose weight: 138 were assigned to the TDR programme and 140 to usual care. 73% of participants were re-measured at 12 months.

Interventions The TDR programme comprised weekly behavioural support for 12 weeks and monthly support for three months, with formula food products providing 810 kcal/day (3389 kJ/day) as the sole food during the first eight weeks followed by reintroduction of food. Usual care comprised behavioural support for weight loss from a practice nurse and a diet programme with modest energy restriction.

Main outcome measures The primary outcome was weight change at 12 months analysed as intention to treat with mixed effects models. Secondary outcomes included biomarkers of cardiovascular and metabolic risk. Adverse events were recorded.

Results Participants in the TDR group lost more weight (−10.7 kg) than those in the usual care group (−3.1 kg): adjusted mean difference −7.2 kg (95% confidence interval −9.4 to −4.9 kg). 45% of participants in the TDR group and 15% in the usual care group experienced weight losses of 10% or more. The TDR group showed greater improvements in biomarkers of cardiovascular and metabolic risk than the usual care group. 11% of participants in the TDR group and 12% in the usual care group experienced adverse events of moderate or greater severity.

Conclusions Compared with regular weight loss support from a practice nurse, a programme of weekly behavioural support and total diet replacement providing 810 kcal/day seems to be tolerable, and leads to substantially greater weight loss and greater improvements in the risk of cardiometabolic disease.

Trial registration International Standard Randomised Controlled Trials No ISRCTN75092026.

I start on 12 February, four weeks "food" is sitting in a box, in the kitchen. Total diet replacement is only for the first 12 weeks, you are expected to lose 10kg or 10% of your body weight in that time.

[rafletcher]

Don’t worry!
There are big fluid shifts associated with the carbs in your diet.
A big initial weight loss isn’t fat.

Don’t let disappointment with a temporary blip turn into a major failure to reduce body fat.

Persistence and ‘good habits’ are the only sustainable ways to lose body fat...

Indeed. Last weeks loss was 0.6kg. More reasonable, albeit a bit slow goven no booze, no cake or biscuits and a reduction in carbs. Hey ho, slowly does it - though I see at the end of 2020 I was 80kg. But I've hardly exercised since then. I can't do the Huel thing, despite working (literally) right next door to them. OT but they're zealots. Compare it to Complan, or call it a "meal replacement" and they get VERY sniffy. It's a "complete food".  Similarly the public face of Zoe, Tim Spector who comes across as a bit of a chauvinist for his cause. Yes, I know he's a scientist, but both Zoe and Huel are for the monied middle classes.

[chrisbainbridge]

Michael Mosley?

[hellymedic]

I lost a lot of weight in 2012-14, which has partly been regained 10 years late, though I’m not as big.
It’s long-term habits which make long-term changes.

They’ve GOT to be sustainable, practical, affordable and palatable. What will make the difference to weight on 31 December is how you eat in the 45 weeks of the year which are not Xmas, New Year, birthdays, special occasions, hotel stays etc. Enjoy those without guilt and otherwise make rules you mostly keep.

 
 Don’t eat food you don’t like. Waste of calories unless somebody will get offended or this is the only available food and you’re ravenous.
 Limit portion sizes of protein foods to supermarket sized suggestions. That is ENOUGH!
 Limit carbs to small portions
 Don’t drink sugar
 Enjoy TINY portions of top-class treats - go for quality, not quantity
 Get used to being a bit hungry (not ravenous) it won’t kill you!
 Try to wait at least 4 hours between feeds unless on a long bike ride.
 Try to avoid processed & artificial foods.

Living on a diet of steak, salad and strawberries will lose you weight but isn’t too good for the wallet or the planet; tastes nice though!

[rafletcher]

Portion control (or lack of it) is my downfall usually. My wife eats so little - for instance her dinner will be 1 ounce of pasta with a teapspoon or 2 of pesto.  Thats' it.  Her larget meal is breakfast - we both have home-made muesli with fruits, ekfir nas banana. She'll have a small loaf crustless snadwich for lunch, and maybe a slice of cake mid afternoon. She's been 8st 4lb give or take for the last 25 years (as long as I've known here). OK, she does have food "issues" that limit her appetite but we've manahed them since we've been together.

Last night I cooked 2 typical Salmon fillet slices. What I should have done, in retrospaect is cook one, as my wife ate no more than a piece (from the thin end) that was as long as tow finger joints and about as thick. I ate the rest (of the two!)

I'm improving in reducing portions, but it's a bit of a struggle!

[rafletcher]

Michael Mosley?

YEah, I find him a bit less polemical than the others, but the advice is similar, and the ingrediants just as costly. We've been watching his latest series, but he needs to enlist some poore people - not a couple who can blow £5k on takeaways a year. And we don't all want to eat a multicoloured salad for every meal.

[chrisbainbridge]

800 calories is difficult.  There is no getting away from it.  You need to write down every single thing which goes in your mouth and weigh everything before you start cooking.  We have no bread in the house, no potatoes, rice or other carbohydrates.  No sausages and nothing but best pure meat beefburgers. No chocolate, no cakes.  We did it during lockdown and lost over 2 stone in about 10 weeks.

Breakfast for me is 2 rashers of grilled bacon and a microwave poached egg.  Lunch is either chicken or whey protein which will bring me to about 400 calories leaving the rest for dinner.

Last night we had 300g of roasted celeriac, grilled tomato and 170g of squid (a major treat for my wife) followed by a zero calorie jelly and then a small chocoalte thing she was practising before granddaughters come next week.  I cycled 50km in the morning but total food intake was 850 calories.  Normally under the 800 without the chocolate.

Mid afternoon I have 500mls of knorr stockpot which is 28 calories.  Gives a savoury hit to fool the stomach

Alternatives  for night time are cauliflower mash 170g, no butter, 1/2 tea spoon of garlic oil in it. Lettuce Ok but a bit meh after a while.  Aubergine is great as is celeriac chips with smoked paprika.  I generally make a very vinegary dressing for lettuce.

a couple of nights where we have been very low we have had 30g of parmesan before bed - a real treat.

I am not saying I am brilliant at this and it does require a complete rethink of the shopping bag but we never stand up from the evening meal feeling less than pleasantly full.