Author Topic: Problems for Sky...  (Read 6224 times)

Problems for Sky...
« on: 29 September, 2013, 10:08:47 am »
As Jonathon Tiernan-Locke is under investigation by the UCI..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24321502
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #1 on: 29 September, 2013, 10:16:33 am »
In fact, potentially, not a problem for Sky at all, quite the opposite, as long as people read beneath the headline and understand the story.

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #2 on: 29 September, 2013, 11:01:34 am »
I did - they're stating that the potential offence was before he joined. I'm puzzled why it should take so long to emerge though - he presumably had a bio-passport for several years before joining Sky.  And it's still not good news for them - mud sticks as we know.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

simonp

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #3 on: 29 September, 2013, 11:21:59 am »
From cycling weekly:

"Although Tiernan-Locke was not part of the biological passport system last season, blood values recorded during the 2013 season appear to differ from those in 2012.

After a breakthrough season in 2012 with Endura that saw him win the Tour of the Mediteranean, Tour du Haut Var, Tour Alsace as well as the Tour of Britain, Tiernan-Locke has struggled to find form and produce results citing fatigue and illness. He did not ride in this year's Tour of Britain to defend his 2012 win."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/540617/jonathan-tiernan-locke-s-biological-passport-under-scrutiny.html

Some explaining to do.

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #4 on: 29 September, 2013, 12:18:21 pm »
I did - they're stating that the potential offence was before he joined. I'm puzzled why it should take so long to emerge though - he presumably had a bio-passport for several years before joining Sky. 

I wasnt suggesting you didnt read it, i was suggesting that if people just read the headline "Sky rider suspected of doping" then...

Quote
not good news for them - mud sticks as we know.

...even though it might have been an Endura rider that doped and not a Sky one

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #5 on: 29 September, 2013, 12:52:42 pm »
And maybe even a good news spin for Sky as they may say his lack of form is down to the fact that he not doping here.

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #6 on: 29 September, 2013, 01:40:54 pm »
No bio-passport because Endura were Continental team not Pro Tour (Sky). Bio-Passport only for Pro Tour and Pro Continental.
Working my way up to inferior.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #7 on: 29 September, 2013, 02:02:37 pm »
Read the stories. There are anomalies, UCI raise questions. This is what they should do. That doesn't mean there are offences but that there are anomalies to explain.

JTL has a very patchy record as he wasn't on the biopassport scheme at Endura (despite his efforts to be so). He was extensively tested at Garmin and Sky.

What Sky have discovered is that he is not out of the same mould as Wiggo and Froome - he is a great rider but more fragile and cannot take the same training load.(Not surprising given his health history).

I don't see this as a problem, quite the opposite in that the UCI are doing their job (for once - though one might feel it is a last kick back by FP against the new regime)
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #8 on: 29 September, 2013, 02:16:14 pm »
(for once - though one might feel it is a last kick back by FP against the new regime)

That was  my first thought, given the timing.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #9 on: 29 September, 2013, 02:26:54 pm »
Maybe he has bilharzia.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #10 on: 29 September, 2013, 02:30:17 pm »
He suffered very badly from Epstein-Barr virus a few years back - overtraining may have some effect on that previous issue.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #11 on: 29 September, 2013, 06:07:30 pm »

He suffered very badly from Epstein-Barr virus a few years back - overtraining may have some effect on that previous issue.

I didn't know that but it would explain a lot.

Scarponi had that too.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

mattc

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Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #12 on: 29 September, 2013, 06:17:30 pm »
Radio4 news has just covered this allegation. It got more airtime than the whole of the actual World Champ races, plus the Tour of Britain put together.  ::-)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #13 on: 29 September, 2013, 07:25:09 pm »

Radio4 news has just covered this allegation.

It's not even an allegation!

As things stand, it's nothing more than a "something that needs to be investigated". Once they've investigated, then they might make an allegation. Or not, as the case may be.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

mattc

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Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #14 on: 29 September, 2013, 07:29:16 pm »
Well quite! I should probably call it an alleged allegation ....
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #15 on: 01 October, 2013, 03:15:20 pm »

Radio4 news has just covered this allegation.

It's not even an allegation!

As things stand, it's nothing more than a "something that needs to be investigated". Once they've investigated, then they might make an allegation. Or not, as the case may be.

Which raises the question of how David Walsh found out, because if procedure is being followed, the UCI shouldn't go public until after  they have weighed up JT-L's response to their initial letter.

There is an aluminium-rich argument that this has been stage-managed by Team Sky and David Walsh, in order to show that Walsh isn't Sky's sockpuppet, and/or to cheaply offload a rider who hasn't performed this year, but that is implying Team Sky possessing PR madskillz that they have signally failed to show thus far (ref. Dr. Leinders).  :demon: ;)

The other theory is that there was a deliberate leak from within the UCI, possibly as a mistimed final shot from team McQuaid against Brian Cookson and British Cycling.

That the UCI have asked JT-L to explain apparent anomalies in his bio-passport is neither here nor there, he can't have been the only rider subject to this process, but the fact that this has got into the public domain before it should have done gives the affair a certain arôme de poisson.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #16 on: 01 October, 2013, 03:27:25 pm »
The other theory is that there was a deliberate leak from within the UCI, possibly as a mistimed final shot from team McQuaid against Brian Cookson and British Cycling.

This strikes me as the most plausible explanation. You're not the first person to have suggested it either.

Quote
That the UCI have asked JT-L to explain apparent anomalies in his bio-passport is neither here nor there, he can't have been the only rider subject to this process, but the fact that this has got into the public domain before it should have done gives the affair a certain arôme de poisson.

Indeed. See also recent reports about the number of out-of-competition tests Horner has undergone this year, and the not too subtle implication that USADA are suspicious of him.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #17 on: 02 October, 2013, 02:11:18 pm »
A good piece from Tom Southam, journalist and former team-mate of JTL:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/opinion-why-i-think-jon-tiernan-locke-is-clean
Working my way up to inferior.

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #18 on: 17 December, 2013, 10:37:33 am »
Oopsie.

Watch Sky drop JTL faster than a grenade with the pin out...
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #19 on: 17 December, 2013, 10:57:57 am »

Radio4 news has just covered this allegation.

It's not even an allegation!

As things stand, it's nothing more than a "something that needs to be investigated". Once they've investigated, then they might make an allegation. Or not, as the case may be.

OK, folks, you can call it an allegation now.

Part of me wants to believe it's his other health issues that have caused the anomaly in his blood passport but the jaded old cynic part of me thinks he's probably been up to no good. Reminds me of Cunego a bit - his varying form and dodgy blood values have been put down to illness, but I don't think anyone really believes him, do they? Aside from the fact that Cunego has been an awful lot more successful than JTL, there's no good reason to believe that JTL is a Good Old Brit and therefore wouldn't dream of doping while at the same time believing Cunego must be doping because he's a Dirty Cheating Wop.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #20 on: 17 December, 2013, 11:24:16 am »
I think we've all been around for long enough to know that "BRITONS never, ever, shall be slaves dope" is a myth - what is open to debate is how prevalent doping is, and at what level of sport, in comparison to other countries that have gained a reputation for that sort of thing.  ;)
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #21 on: 17 December, 2013, 11:47:09 am »
I think we've all been around for long enough to know that "BRITONS never, ever, shall be slaves dope" is a myth

You and I know that but many British cycling fans will find it hard to believe that a Brit could possibly be using Dirty Foreign Methods.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #22 on: 17 December, 2013, 12:10:27 pm »
Dirty Foreign Methods?

Courtesy of "Choppy" Warburton, we practically invented doping in cycle sport! It's just another British invention that's now used more effectively by Johnny Foreigner. :demon: ;) :demon:
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #23 on: 17 December, 2013, 05:40:46 pm »
It is an allegation and there is sufficient data to make tehre a case requiring answering.
An anomaly has been noted with the biological passport:
Step 1. is there a simple, trivial, and obvious explaination? The answer is clearly No so it has been referred back to the national federations to institute disciplinary proceedings, ie to make a definitive ruling on whether or not there has been a violation of the rules.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Rhys W

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Re: Problems for Sky...
« Reply #24 on: 17 December, 2013, 11:31:57 pm »
(for once - though one might feel it is a last kick back by FP against the new regime)

That was  my first thought, given the timing.

Reading about recent developments, if I'm not mistaken JTL is managed by FP's son. So, seems unlikely.